SF show their respect for law and order again

Slutmonkey57b

From the Irish Times:

The wife of Sinn Féin TD Mr Aengus Ó Snodaigh, her sister and a student were all found guilty yesterday of public order offences in Dublin city centre after they left a party last May.

Turns out the lovely lady threw a glass at a garda car while the garda were calling an ambulance, then proceeded to abuse the garda when questioned about it, kicking and resisting arrest, while other partygoers from a SF event threatened the gardai that they would lose their jobs for arresting a TD's wife. Her sister and the student grappled with the garda in the back of the van, calling them "****ing scumbag" and "free state basterd".

What an inspirational example of SF's commitment to stamping out anti-social behaviour. I hope the constituants that inflicted this TD on us are pleased with the result. My heartfelt thanks to them.

sceptre

The lovely lady isn't a representative for Sinn Fein herself is she? I'm not sure it shows up contempt for the law by SF (in this specific case) any more than the numerous sons of various TDs who have been done for various public order offences over the years (FF/FG/PDs in "disregard for drinking laws/drug laws shocker"). If O Snodaigh himswelf had tried the "drink or a transfer, garda" line obviously my view would be different but the woman appears to have no official link to SF beyond being married to one.

I think the "free state bastard" line is funny though. The utterer is obviously a time traveller from the 1930s and good luck to them with that in a modern courthouse, even assuming he/she didn't try the "I do not recognise the authority of this court or State to try me for grappling with the nice man in the shiny uniform".

Not much of a story imho.

Slutmonkey57b

Edit: This happened at an official SF event. I don't have an ireland.com login so I can't copy and paste the whole thing, but there is a bit more to it than the above. The people threatening the garda were SF members, so yes, they are representing SF. And if SF members are using their TD's position (or the threat of the options open to a specifically SF TD) then yes, they are showing the party up for what they are.

Other parties have members who are just as guilty for this sort of thing, but generally have learned over the past few years to be a little bit embarrassed about it, and to apologise for their members behaviour. I wonder what the SF press response will be.

You may not think it's much of a story but in that case I can assume you haven't been directly involved in an incident like this. Court remedies for drunk and disorderly tend to paint them as petty infractions. From years of experience I can tell you that the difference between an incident that reaches this level and one that ends up in a stabbing or a death is very slim indeed. Bear in mind that these people are prepared to attack the police, throw glasses at a patrol car, and most important, they followed the police back to Store St. to continue threatening them and abusing them. Also from previous experience I know that SF members are not above threatening people with "consequences", unnamed or otherwise.

Also bear in mind the fact that the reason a lot of people have been converted to SF over the past couple of years is because they are seen as a party that will "do" something about public order problems like drugs, drink, violence etc. The fact that SF are the most anti-law and order party in the country would be ironic if it weren't so frightening.

por

Here is the full article

From the Irish Times

Wife of SF deputy among three fined for public order offences
Christine Newman



The wife of Sinn Féin TD Mr Aengus Ó Snodaigh, her sister and a student were all found guilty yesterday of public order offences in Dublin city centre after they left a party last May.

Aisling Ní Dalaigh, the TD's wife, of Decies Road, Ballyfermot, was fined €250 for breach of the peace with drunkenness taken into account in Dublin District Court.

Her sister, Niamh Ní Dalaigh, an education administrator, received a fine of €150 for obstruction with breach of the peace taken into account.

Martin Farrell, a civil engineering student living in the city centre, was fined €100 for obstruction with breach of the peace taken into account.

They have been given three months to pay.

All three denied the charges. They said that they had attended a Sinn Féin function at the Abbey Hotel. They denied being drunk or using foul language to gardaí.

Judge William Early said that normally he would consider applying the Probation Act.

"However, people who invoke political parties and other organisations in their support to threaten gardaí do not, it seems to me, deserve the Probation Act," he said.

At 3.10 a.m. on May 27th, 2004, in Middle Abbey Street, Garda Bernard Mullens and Garda Enda McCarthy were calling an ambulance. As this happened, a person threw a glass at the patrol car.

"I have no doubt whatsoever that the person who threw the glass was Ms Aisling Ní Dalaigh," said Judge Early.

Garda Mullens said he heard glass smashing and a barman, Mr Dermot Walsh, said that it had come from a woman standing in a group outside the Abbey Hotel.

The garda started to ask the woman, Aisling Ní Dalaigh, about it. He said she was drunk.

She was raising her arms to him, flailing them, cursing and shouting. He tried to handcuff her, but people round them kept interrupting him.

"Other people were trying to stop us from arresting her. They told us we'd be in trouble as her husband is a TD," he said.

"She was still kicking and squirming and resisting arrest, and had to be lifted and carried to the back of the van."

She herself had never mentioned her husband.

When she was put in the van, Niamh Ní Dalaigh was opening the doors and the inner caged door of the van with Martin Farrell, whom he arrested for obstruction.

He said Niamh Ní Dalaigh had been very aggressive, shouting at people, and had made a number of references to Sinn Féin, saying that the other person's husband was a TD.

Garda Gareth Kane said that he had seen Niamh Ní Dalaigh at the scene. "She called me a 'f****** scumbag' and 'Free State bastard'." She had been arrested after opening the van doors.

At Store Street Garda station she had said that the other prisoner was the wife of a Sinn Féin TD, and that he would lose his job, he said.

A charge of criminal damage against Aisling Ní Dalaigh and one of assault by Niamh Ní Dalaigh were struck out.

ionapaul

Lol, do they really still call us 'free state bastards'? I saw it a few times on one of our many SF threads, but thought it was just the usual bunch of teenage activists trying to be tough/funny.

Meh

Does this count as a breach of the IRA ceasefire? Will Ms. Ní Dalaigh qualify as a "political prisoner" under the GFA?

(At least she should have no trouble coming up with the €250. I wonder do the courts accept Northern Bank notes...)

Boggle

The woman had a hissy fit - nothing to do with SF. You must really be stuck for a reason to have a go at SF if your dredging this crap onto the forum.

If the article read SF td attacks gardai then fair enough but it doesn't...

You may not think it's much of a story but in that case I can assume you haven't been directly involved in an incident like this. Court remedies for drunk and disorderly tend to paint them as petty infractions. From years of experience I can tell you that the difference between an incident that reaches this level and one that ends up in a stabbing or a death is very slim indeed.

From experience I can tell you that there's a massive difference between some woman throwing a tantrum and some scumbag walking up and starting on someone. I'd bet the gardai went back to the station and had a good laugh about the "bitch in the cell"!

ionapaul

You can't deny that calling a Guard (or anyone) a 'Free State Bastard!' is pretty funny though and shows the mindset of a very small proportion of our voting public. Something about the phrase is cracking me up...it's like the most pathetic insult ever, particularly if you imagine a drunken middle-aged women screeching it at the top of her range!

ishmael whale

Boggle wrote:

The woman had a hissy fit - nothing to do with SF.

Anything embarrassing for Sinn Fein is always welcome. For what its worth, she does appear to be a founder member of her local SF Cumann.

http://sinnfeindsc.com/index.php?pid=13&a=2

“The James Connolly Cumann was formed in 1992 under the stewardship of Aisling Ní Dhalaigh, Críona Ní Dhalaigh, Tony Smithers, Ian McBride and Aengus O' Snodaigh, with Aengus as Chairperson.”

simu

People getting drunk and making eejits of themselves... what a rarity in this country.

Villain

Another Bash SF thread, what a surprise, she has been dealth with in the courts and paid the penalty, just wish I could say the same about all the corrupt elected Politicians of this state!

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Another Bash SF thread, what a surprise, she has been dealth with in the courts and paid the penalty, just wish I could say the same about all the corrupt elected Politicians of this state!

Is this thread any different to thread discussing the illegal activities of any other political party members.
Should we take this and this and this and that...! as Fianna Fáil bashing...?

It's only legitimate debate irish1 just as all the "america bashing" that goes on is legitimate debate.
All the parties get trashed around here and so they should be, thats part of what this board is about.

Theres absolutely no justification for your persecution complex.Indeed I'm sure a wee search of this board would turn up what could be constituted by your standards government and opposition bashing perpetrated by yourself.

Theres no special treatment and I'm astonished that you or anyone should take a tack such as you have, it *cough* looks like you want to censor debate in the *cough* special case of Sinn Féin...

Villain

Earthman wrote:

Theres absolutely no justification for your persecution complex.Indeed I'm sure a wee search of this board would turn up what could be constituted by your standards government and opposition bashing perpetrated by yourself.

Theres no special treatment and I'm astonished that you or anyone should take a tack such as you have, it *cough* looks like you want to censor debate in the *cough* special case of Sinn Féin...

Nice to see you had to go back to 2003 for those threads, and 3 of them relate to the GV Wright incident.

There is certainly more threads about SF in the last year than other opposition parties. I would say maybe even more than FF, (a quick search showed 25 more results for Sinn Fein compared to Fianna Fail, by no means a detailed search mind you) and you would always expect the main party in power to get the majority of interest.

I have no issue with the quantity as such, its more to do with the quality, i.e. the same people saying the same things over and over, if each thread was on topic I wouldn't mind, but almost every thread about SF turns into a general free for all bashing of the party. I mean just look at the Northern Bank thread, people like Cork just kept writing the same general crap about the party rather then discussing the topic at hand.

sceptre

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

You may not think it's much of a story but in that case I can assume you haven't been directly involved in an incident like this.

Oh indeed and you can. No experience whatever (so far) and I'll happily take your word that the difference between an incident such as this and one that develops into something that causes death or injury is pretty small.

Meh

irish1 wrote:

There is certainly more threads about SF in the last year than other opposition parties. I would say maybe even more than FF, (a quick search showed 25 more results for Sinn Fein compared to Fianna Fail, by no means a detailed search mind you) and you would always expect the main party in power to get the majority of interest.

Just a thought that floated into my head here, but maybe if Sinn Fein severed their links with organized crime, terrorism and vigilante activity, then people would stop criticizing them so much?

Villain

Meh wrote:

Just a thought that floated into my head here, but maybe if Sinn Fein severed their links with organized crime, terrorism and vigilante activity, then people would stop criticizing them so much?

One word....... Proof??


You see if if I came on here and accused Fianna Fail or Fianna Gail of being linked with organized crime, terrorism or vigilante activity I'd shouted down and asked for proof and rightly so. I accept that SF are linked with the IRA but they are using this link to bring about peace, they do not control the IRA.

A Dub in Glasgo

Groundhog Day on Boards.ie, Politics Forum :rolleyes:

sceptre

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Groundhog Day on Boards.ie, Politics Forum :rolleyes:

Indeed but the funny thing is that each of you thinks it's the guy with the opposing view causing it in the first place every time.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Nice to see you had to go back to 2003 for those threads, and 3 of them relate to the GV Wright incident.

Well november 2003 which is erm 14 months ago.
I picked the GV Wright case in particular because there was a lot of discussion about it here,I was comparing a criminal incident with a criminal incident and the entailing discussion on boards.

a quick search showed 25 more results for Sinn Fein compared to Fianna Fail, by no means a detailed search mind you)

Did you search for the pd's aswell or mary Harney, theres a couple of pages of results on that and plenty of government bashing...
theres a couple of long threads on Beverly cooper Flynn there too that arent very complimentary to FF.
The majority of the threads in recent months have been in relation to foreign politics and the vast majority of threads in recent months have been discussing current events, reeling in SF a lot I would suggest as they are in the news a lot lately, they are appearing on boards a lot of the time in proportion to their high profile in current affairs

if each thread was on topic I wouldn't mind, but almost every thread about SF turns into a general free for all bashing of the party.

Have you not noticed a general influx of Republican minded posters here in the last number of weeks, have you no confidence in their or your own ability to argue your case?
I put it to you that, its a last line of defence to be crying fowl, just because you cant put what other posters say to bed.
I'll also put it to you that the frequency of threads involving critism of SF has more to do with the level of feeling and distrust there is towards them, allied to the fact that they are very high profile in the news at the moment.I did look at the last few months threads and virtually all of them stem out of current affairs.
I've also said to you numerous times that SF are always going to have the criminality millstone around their necks with many, whilst republicans are involved in criminality and thats regardless of what group are involved-its a perception that can only be cured if Republicans of the SF persuasion are seen to co-operate with Gardaí to eliminate shady goings on.
And don't tell me that IRA members don't know who is involved, that just doesnt wash with joe non SF voting public.

people like Cork just kept writing the same general crap about the party rather then discussing the topic at hand.

You're complaining about Cork? Shur many non SF supporters here at some stage have complained about Corks posts due to their unusual Develaraishness in this day and age ( I do believe I've coined a new phrase ) is Cork all thats bothering you here?

Trojan

Oh for god sake come up with something interesting, irish1, please.

A Dub in Glasgo

Trojan wrote:

Oh for god sake come up with something interesting, irish1, please.

You know, I was thinking exactlythat regarding Slutmonkey57b's original post :eek:

Villain

Earthman wrote:

Well november 2003 which is erm 14 months ago.
I picked the GV Wright case in particular because there was a lot of discussion about it here,I was comparing a criminal incident with a criminal incident and the entailing discussion on boards.

With all due respect, GV Wright is an elected TD and a member of the current government, comparing what he did to that of the wife of a TD is a little silly.

Earthman wrote:

Have you not noticed a general influx of Republican minded posters here in the last number of weeks, have you no confidence in their or your own ability to argue your case?
I put it to you that, its a last line of defence to be crying fowl, just because you cant put what other posters say to bed.
I'll also put it to you that the frequency of threads involving critism of SF has more to do with the level of feeling and distrust there is towards them, allied to the fact that they are very high profile in the news at the moment.I did look at the last few months threads and virtually all of them stem out of current affairs.
I've also said to you numerous times that SF are always going to have the criminality millstone around their necks with many, whilst republicans are involved in criminality and thats regardless of what group are involved-its a perception that can only be cured if Republicans of the SF persuasion are seen to co-operate with Gardaí to eliminate shady goings on.
And don't tell me that IRA members don't know who is involved, that just doesnt wash with joe non SF voting public.


You're complaining about Cork? Shur many non SF supporters here at some stage have complained about Corks posts due to their unusual Develaraishness in this day and age ( I do believe I've coined a new phrase ) is Cork all thats bothering you here?

I have more than enough confidence in my ability to argue any topic, my problem lies with those people who take everything in relation to SF as fact without any... well facts!. I respond to every question I can, I can't control what other republicans say nor do I want to, and I don't agree with some of them either, I mean some of them seem to support the IRA where as you well know I don't, I support SF and the peace process.

I just wish people could see the difference between the 2 organisations and stopped posting crap about Adams and McGuiness being on the IRA army council, and that my friends is all it is "CRAP", unfounded crap at that even.

In relation to Cork I reported one of his posts and the mod seemed to agree with me. Every SF thread ends up in a general debate rather than staying on topic.

Villain

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Terrorism no, they have links with an organisation that was involved in terrorism in the past but thankfully they have been on a ceasefire for a long long time.


Trojan, that post was a great addition to the discussion :rolleyes:

Trojan

Aside: can we disable rolleyes? They're a pathetic and overused addition to the zealots armory.

irish1 wrote:

Trojan, that post was a great addition to the discussion

Thanks. Slightly more interesting than rehash after rehash of ... yawn, apologies, I can't remember.

I remember know why I think <what I think of all politicans, regardless of party>.

No witty (rolleyes accompanied) comeback necessary, I'm gone.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

With all due respect, GV Wright is an elected TD and a member of the current government, comparing what he did to that of the wife of a TD is a little silly.

Why? one injured a pedestrian whilst drink driving and the other attacked a Garda whilst drunk.
Both were drunk and the T.D's wife intentionally committed an assault.
She's a founder member of the local SF cummain,obviously an active part of her husbands team and she threw a bottle at a garda while he was phoning for an ambulance-thats disgracefull behaviour and not a good character reference.
Do you think it shouldn't be discussed in a politics forum just because it involves Sinn Féin??
I've not seen the thread starter too much round here, are you accusing him of being involved in an anti SF conspiracy?
Seriously Irish1, I think you should stick to de-bunking what you disagree with as best you can and not cry wolf just because theres enough people to fervently disagree with you.
Better still imho, you should start threads on current topics involving other political parties where you can see a discussion flow,I doubt if you'll be accused of Government bashing or FG bashing...

I just wish people could see the difference between the 2 organisations and stopped posting crap about Adams and McGuiness being on the IRA army council, and that my friends is all it is "CRAP", unfounded crap at that even.

But you see you've presented no evidence to the contrary either other than the word of the people accused of being on the IRA army council.
People believe what they believe because of whats in front of them in the public domain.Adam's statement They havent gone away you know accompanied by a big grin from him and loud cheers from his supporters went down in folklore.
He was tackled several times this morning on morning Ireland regarding what the Taoiseach said and to be frank, it sounded to me like the groans of tooth extraction to get him to say the Northern bank robbery was wrong( and thats coming from someone who has a healthy appreciation of his efforts to drag hardline IRA men into a democratic peacefull fold ) I actually think he has little choice to walk the line as thin as he did this morning, so near is the thin ice to breaking when anything sensitive is said in relation to the peace process and specifically in his case in relation to republicans-blood being thicker than water etc
Couple that with the repeated unpopular stance of SF in support of the McCabe killers and you have a hot curry with people.
It's things like that what keep people riled up regarding Sinn Féin and the best cure would be for those with the knowledge to start reporting to the Gardaí ie shop the criminals and be seen to be doing that.

FTA69

I don't think Irish was denying the incident or dismissing discussion about it, he was simply pointing out the ludicrous attitudes of some here who would use this petty, irrelevant, miniscule issue to discredit Sinn Féin. Did Sinn Féin request her to abuse a guard? No, they didn't, when a member of an organisation goes out and gets drunk on her own initiative the organisation of which she is a member is not responsible for her actions. If this woman was a member of a local library would be people be slandering that?

People get drunk and do silly things every day of the week, the fact that this time happened to involve a Sinn Féin member isn't really worth the discussion to be honest. Get over it.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote:

People get drunk and do silly things every day of the week, the fact that this time happened to involve a Sinn Féin member isn't really worth the discussion to be honest. Get over it.

Hang on a second when you are in public life-expect scrutiny.
I've no doubt if she was the wife of any other T.D and something similar happened, it would also make the news and certainly would probably be discussed here.
Like I said, no special treatment, no sweeping under the carpet...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Slutmonkey57b

FTA69 wrote:

I don't think Irish was denying the incident or dismissing discussion about it, he was simply pointing out the ludicrous attitudes of some here who would use this petty, irrelevant, miniscule issue to discredit Sinn Féin. Did Sinn Féin request her to abuse a guard? No, they didn't, when a member of an organisation goes out and gets drunk on her own initiative the organisation of which she is a member is not responsible for her actions. If this woman was a member of a local library would be people be slandering that?

People get drunk and do silly things every day of the week, the fact that this time happened to involve a Sinn Féin member isn't really worth the discussion to be honest. Get over it.

1: Attacking the police in the course of their lawful duties for no reason is not petty, irrelevant or miniscule. It's a criminal offence.
2: I'm not attempting to discredit SF, I'm pointing out that SF members acting like this serves to discredit them without the need for any "conspiracy theories". There is no conspiracy theory in this case, much though you might like there to be. If SF are going to paint themselves as the "law and order" party, which they do down here, then they should be aware of what this sort of publicity means.
3: She's not a librarian, she's part of a political party and the wife of a TD - that makes her actions very much part of the public interest. We have a right to know what this woman is being charged with and why. We also have the right to expect that the political party in question - no matter what party it is - should take action against their member and apologise for their actions.
4: We're not talking about doing something "silly". Wearing a tie-die t-shirt and juggling melons is "silly". We're talking about throwing glasses at police cars. It was a deliberate, unprovoked, violent attack. Would it still be "silly" if she had hit a passing pedestrian with the glass? Like I said above, there is a very small difference between a drunken row and a death in these cases. Just because a woman is involved doesn't mean it's any less potentially dangerous.

The reason I picked out this story in the first place is precisely because of the contrast between the way SF used the law and order card to get itself elected in high-crime areas like Ballyfermot. If a member of the public had thrown a glass at a SF member in a car, you can bet that there would be crowing about intimidation and harrassment of innocent civilians. But because it is a high profile member of SF who is the aggressor in this case - we are supposed to "drop it"? Why? Let me ask you a couple of questions then:

Do SF think it is acceptable for citizens to attack the police in a drunken rage for no reason?
Are we supposed to think that drunken violent behaviour is the "norm" now and that nothing should be done to stop it?
Are we supposed to believe that we should not expect this woman, and her TD husband to apologise for her behaviour?
Are we supposed to institute a "one standard for SF and one standard for the rest of them" system to avoid embarrassing SF?

The reason I ask these questions is that I don't think that voters should be expected to persuade political parties of what is reasonable behaviour. If any political party wants credibility, then they have to make some pretence of walking the walk as well as talking the talk. That's something that all Irish parties are notoriously bad at, but it is even more important surely for SF as the supposed "new broom" of Irish politics? More importantly, the "new broom" effect here is that you seem to want us to ignore acts of violence. Other political parties have always wanted us to ignore corruption, or incompetance, but I am not aware of any cases of another party suggesting that their members violently attacking people is no big deal and should be ignored.

FTA69

Hold up now, I am not stating support for the woman or her actions. I agree with you, they do embarass us in the public eye. However, I am saying that the drunken tantrum of a minor party member is hardly newsworthy and my opinionswould be the exact same regarding any other TD's wife, Republican or otherwise.

If it was a TD himself it would be a different story, but it wasn't.
If she had injured anyone it would be a different story, but she didn't.

All we have is a drunk and disorderly conviction which will result in a small fine. Big bloody deal.