Does SF/IRA actually want a conclusion to the peace process?

Alex27

IRA and other paramilitary groups involved in the number of illegal activities. One day police might crack down with the support of community on those individuals and organisations who break the law regardless of their `political` status.
Apprehension and detention of such individuals might not bring permanent peace but certainly will improve the life of communities on the both sides of the border.
IRA can operate quiet efficiently yet history shows that organisations like that do meet their end sooner of later. Look even mighty Rome collapsed, and USSR as well. Just few examples for you.

Nelson Mandela and others did break the law for they had the valid reason and people supported them. Paramilitaries have no valid reason and most people do not support them. It is clear by now that UK do not oppose idea of united Ireland and the matter is in the voters hands. One have to respect people wishes.
They claim that they defend their communities from other paramilitary groups. But what if all groups are agreeded between themselves to play the game of fear in order for each group to preserve its influence? Police have to deal with criminals not self styled groups of `justice`.

Want contribute to the peace process? Disarm and get a job.And yes do inform police when you can if the information you have might help them to prevent another crime. Police is the part of society that helps people, criminals on the other hand deliver no good.

FTA69

billy the squid wrote:

RUC man tells you to move along, IRA recruiter offers you the opportunity to make a few quid, which would you choose if you had nothing.

Despite your misguided views billy, there is no money to be made from being an IRA Volunteer. Volunteers are not "offered a few quid" when they join, they join because of a political motivation that is usually deeply held.

as for personal experience, peer pressure can be a strong thing. I'll join cos all my friends are joining.

That mentality has not existed since the early '70s, the IRA no longer blanket recruited young men, as I said above, people saught out the IRA for membership, not the other way around.

my point was that it would cost more for sinn fein to impress an adult with a large income who is comfortable than it would for them to turn the heads of some poor individuals who have no prospect of success because of their lack of qualifications.

I'd agree with the consensus of that point, but as I said above, Sinn Féin seek to appeal to those who were placed into a position of disadvantage by society and as such our ideals of equality and freedom will natuarlly appeal to those who have neither of the above.

FTA69

Alex27 wrote:

IRA can operate quiet efficiently yet history shows that organisations like that do meet their end sooner of later. Look even mighty Rome collapsed, and USSR as well. Just few examples for you.

But while Rome and Soviet Russia operated on the installation of fear into the communties they represent, the IRA operate on the basis of community support. You are ignoring the fact that the people of Ballymurphy, the Bogside, Ardoyne or Ballymun often actively support the IRA because they agree with the motives behind that organisation. The IRA consists of the sons and daughters and friends of people in these areas and they have their full support.

They claim that they defend their communities from other paramilitary groups. But what if all groups are agreeded between themselves to play the game of fear in order for each group to preserve its influence? Police have to deal with criminals not self styled groups of `justice`.

The pogroms of Loyalist death-squads are not the only reason for the continued existence of the IRA, continued police and brit persecution figure just as high. This conflict is not the result of various militias vying for power, it is a as a result of a variety of reasons and state repression is a main cause.

FTA69

mycroft wrote:

Brillant. Sheer brillance you accuse the SWP of indoctrination and when I point out that repbulican doctrination from an early age you get all "nuture rather than nature" on us.

I never said that family conditioning was not a reason for the development of a Republican mindset in an individual. What I am saying though, is that Republicanism is not the product of filial descendency as many would alledge. Personal experience and personal reflection is usually the crunch factor in my opinion.

And this is were my contempt of you, wanders into naked contempt. The author was a man who made the decision to join your glorious struggle, witnessed the blood and brutality and the contempt for life by IRA men, and walked away. He was murdered for his convictions. And you never have a likely for his ilk. Well from your position as a teenage armchair republican I can see how little your opinion of that man is worth.

Collins was not killed for "his convictions", people walk away from the Movement every week and they are not killed. I have no grudge against anyone who changes their opinion, I do however, bear a grudge against those who turn informer against their comrades and expose structures of the Movement. He made his decisions when he turned tout.

I also resent your allegations that I am an "armchair" Republican, I work actively, and have suffered for, my beliefs. What have you ever done for yours a chara?

billy the squid

The IRA consists of the sons and daughters and friends of people in these areas and they have their full support.

I thought you said peer pressure stopped in the early 1970s

continued police and brit persecution figure just as high. This conflict is not the result of various militias vying for power, it is a as a result of a variety of reasons and state repression is a main cause.

can you give an example in 2005 of the ordinary man on the street in west belfast being repressed either by the army or the PSNI. without going back as far as the night of the big wind (i dont need the history lecture thank you)

FTA69

billy the squid wrote:

I thought you said peer pressure stopped in the early 1970s

I never said that these people were forced into membership by any form of expectation, I said that Nationalist areas are not coerced by the IRA considering IRA members and ex-prisoners form a vital part of the fabric of those communities.

can you give an example in 2005 of the ordinary man on the street in west belfast being repressed either by the army or the PSNI. without going back as far as the night of the big wind (i dont need the history lecture thank you)

A friend of mine Danny Turnbull was detained in West Tyrone (and later Maghaberry Jail where he was put in a Loyalist compound) for possesion of "info relevant to terrorists", this happened to be a few photos taken of an Ógra Shinn Féin protest, he was assualted in custody after the RUC/PSNI raided his house, they also took two childrens' cap guns for "analysis".

For a mass example have a look at the situation in Ardoyne last year when peelers and heavily armed paratroopers batoned and beat people off their own streets in order to force a sectarian march through the estate.

Have a look at the countless examples of the PSNI/RUC attempting to coerce people into informing on Republicans as well as their facilitating of the activities of drug dealers in exchange for information.

Tell you what billy, once you get the slightest idea of what your beloved police and soldiers are about we'll have this discusison again.

billy the squid

FTA69 wrote:

A friend of mine Danny Turnbull was detained in West Tyrone (and later Maghaberry Jail where he was put in a Loyalist compound) for possesion of "info relevant to terrorists", this happened to be a few photos taken of an Ógra Shinn Féin protest, he was assualted in custody after the RUC/PSNI raided his house, they also took two childrens' cap guns for "analysis".

link please

oh and what age is your friend, and why was he hanging around a load of shin fein youth members taking pictures

For a mass example have a look at the situation in Ardoyne last year when peelers and heavily armed paratroopers batoned and beat people off their own streets in order to force a sectarian march through the estate.

link please

Have a look at the countless examples of the PSNI/RUC attempting to coerce people into informing on Republicans as well as their facilitating of the activities of drug dealers in exchange for information.

arresting one criminal to harvest information on another, common practice in any police force.

Oh if im not mistaken, werent there RUC officers lining the streets protecting catholic children while they went to school in 2001/2002 or there abouts.

you see the times have changed.

oh and getting back to indoctrination, if sinn fein members like yourselves are not indoctrinated why do you all talk the same. calling police "peelers" and calling citezens of the republic of Ireland "free-staters" criminal activity is called "armed struggle" etc etc. the sinn fein TDs wife who was convicted called the members of the guards "free state bastards" if im not mistaken. you have called us free staters more than once as have your other friends from the irbb website who invaded this site several weeks ago to "enlighten us". so tell me if they are not indoctrinated then why do they not use their own terminology but instead choose to use the same terminology as everyone else.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote:

For a mass example have a look at the situation in Ardoyne last year when peelers and heavily armed paratroopers batoned and beat people off their own streets in order to force a sectarian march through the estate.

Are these the same peelers and heavily armed paratroopers that stoped loyalist gangs attacking children on their way to school in the ardoyne?

Mighty_Mouse

I stunned that any person with the capability to read and write (ie. educated to normal standard, mentally capable etc) would actually believe the above.

Are anti-republicans on boards.ie actually becoming more demented?

FTA69

billy the squid wrote:

link please

The only publication that carried the story was An Phoblacht (the press in general tend to ignore such things) so is there any point in me trawling through the internet to provide you with an example you will dismiss?

oh and what age is your friend, and why was he hanging around a load of shin fein youth members taking pictures

20, he was taking the photos because he is an Ógra Shinn Féin member who was the designated photographer for the event.

link please

My copy and paste is broken for some reason so I can't provide a detailed link. Google Ardoyne Violence Orange March and you will get plenty of interesting results. I'm surprised you hadn't heard of this incident already considering it was big news last summer. The Parades Commission ruled that an Orange march was not to parade past Ardoyne (a staunch Republican estate in North Belfast) but in the face of UDA threats overturned their decision, the RUC/PSNI and the Paratroop Regiment (the people who committed the Bloody Sunday massacre) formed a cordon past the estate in which the parade was to go through. To facilitate this Nationalists were hemmed into narrow streets and sometimes their own gardens. Needless to say Nationalists replied to this with force and a group of Paratroopers who were trapped had loaded and cocked guns pointed at the corwd. Gerry Kelly and other senior Republicans from the area tried to restrain the crowd as the brits were about to open fire, Gerry Kelly got a broken arm for his trouble.

As I said, don't take my word for it, look it up yourself.

arresting one criminal to harvest information on another, common practice in any police force.

There is a big difference between playing criminals off against each other and letting drug dealers poison children to glean information on political rivals.

oh and getting back to indoctrination, if sinn fein members like yourselves are not indoctrinated why do you all talk the same. calling police "peelers" and calling citezens of the republic of Ireland "free-staters"

And how come people call Republicans "terrorists" and "criminals" with monotonous uniformity? "Peelers" is also a common term for the RUC/PSNI, Loyalists use it themselves even. By the way a "Free Stater" is not someone from the 26 Counties, ie I'm from Waterford but I'm not a Free Stater. A Free Stater is an anti-Republican who believes in the absolutism of the 26 County State and is opposed to a united Ireland.

criminal activity is called "armed struggle" etc etc.

Armed struggle is simply a physical force method used to advance one's political objectives, it is not akin to Mafiaesque behaviour in either theory and practice and as much as you would like to portray it as such, the fact remains it isn't. The IRA are not criminals, never have been and they never will and the majority of people, while they disagree with the IRA, do not consider them "criminals".

you have called us free staters more than once as have your other friends from the irbb website who invaded this site several weeks ago to "enlighten us".

I don't have friends on the IRBB because I don't know anyone off it, I also came here out of my own curiosity and stayed because I actually enjoy the debates I have here. What other people do is their own business and I won't be chastised because of them thank you very much.

so tell me if they are not indoctrinated then why do they not use their own terminology but instead choose to use the same terminology as everyone else.

As I pointed out above, you people make uniform arguments and use the same statements when describing us. Ye aren't as bloody unique as you might think ye'reselves to be.

FTA69

Earthman wrote:

Are these the same peelers and heavily armed paratroopers that stoped loyalist gangs attacking children on their way to school in the ardoyne?

They're the same peelers who continue to collude with Loyalist death-squads in providing information on Republicans, the same peelers who harras and beat people because of their political persuasions. They are probably the same peelers who grant immunity to drug-dealers in Nationalist areas so as to glean information.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote:

and stayed because I actually enjoy the debates I have here.

Oh.. I thought you were bored?? here

As regards the Ardoyne

That police officer is wearing a shielded helmet to protect himself from loyalist attacks whilst protecting catholic schoolchildren
It all goes back to indoctrination, one lot indoctrinated against the papists and the other against the prods.
Pity really.
It's always the extremes that are emphasised on both sides to enhance the indoctrination isn't it, however abnormal or uncommon they are...pity really

FTA69

The ones I participate in I enjoy, the ones I don't particiapte in I usually have little interest in. My comment above stemmed from my opinion that if peope want to argue the toss leave them off so to speak.

It is true that the RUC did attempt to cordon off Loyalist protestors, but what do they expect a medal? The fact remains that in general this is a corrupt, sectarian force that colludes with the same paramilitaries who were throwing pipe bombs at those same children. One example is not enough to convince Nationalists that a complete overhaul of Irish policing is needed.

pete

FTA69 wrote:

My copy and paste is broken for some reason so I can't provide a detailed link.

OT - that'll be a virus or spyware or some such gubbins.

mycroft

I never said that family conditioning was not a reason for the development of a Republican mindset in an individual. What I am saying though, is that Republicanism is not the product of filial descendency as many would alledge. Personal experience and personal reflection is usually the crunch factor in my opinion.

FTA69 wrote:

Collins was not killed for "his convictions", people walk away from the Movement every week and they are not killed. I have no grudge against anyone who changes their opinion, I do however, bear a grudge against those who turn informer against their comrades and expose structures of the Movement. He made his decisions when he turned tout.

And therefore suffered for his beliefs from his personal experience than many in the IRA were in fact psychopaths

I also resent your allegations that I am an "armchair" Republican, I work actively, and have suffered for, my beliefs. What have you ever done for yours a chara?

Plenty more than you my boy, so spare me the condescending attitude, and I'll spare you mine, and I'm sure your beliefs have got you in a load of trouble from your armchair in Free west waterford.

FTA69,
What All the PSNI are corrupt?
I've no doubt some of them probably have sectarian views but every single one of them?

By the way I can understand the SF policy of wanting complete disbandment of the psni, its a quid pro quo in their mind for the disbandment of the IRA although, they dont market it that way obviously.
I doubt that it will happen though as its a minority thats asking for it.It would seem more reasonable to encourage catholics to take advantage of the 50:50 recruitment strategy.
Mind you , all recruits are 50:50 now aren't they and 99% of those retiring or dying must be protestant so the ratio is improving slowly.
At the rate the guys up north are disagree'ing and filibustering, there should be a very strong catholic representation in the PSNI when it comes to a final agreement in maybe 7 or 8 years(if we are lucky)

[I'm tempted to say that the Adare killers should be out by then too, having served their time and could join up also-but you'll only think I'm taking the píss ]

In the mean time, it would seem reasonable to non alligned neutral observers for SF to be on the policing board and to be argu'ing for an even stronger police ombudsmans office than the already draconian one that exists.

jbkenn

FTA69 wrote:

The only publication that carried the story was An Phoblacht

"Truth in the news" doe'nt exactly spring to mind when you mention that publication, a Sinn Fein/IRA propaganda sheet

I'm surprised you hadn't heard of this incident already considering it was big news last summer.

Believe it or not, after 35 years ones interest in the day to day events in the North tends to wane

the Paratroop Regiment (the people who committed the Bloody Sunday massacre)

It's the Parachute Regiment actually, and, no we would'nt have known about their involvement on Bloody Sunday if you had'nt told us.

Needless to say Nationalists replied to this with force and a group of Paratroopers who were trapped had loaded and cocked guns pointed at the corwd.

As you do, did it ever dawn on them to just ignore the ba$tard$ for the few hours, and let them have their silly march in their silly hats.

Gerry Kelly and other senior Republicans from the area tried to restrain the crowd as the brits were about to open fire, Gerry Kelly got a broken arm for his trouble.

Me heart bleeds for him
Have a look a Gerry's C.V. here http://www.residentgroups.fsnet.co.uk/gerry%20kelly.htm

As I said, don't take my word for it, look it up yourself.

Truthfully I could'nt be bothered

There is a big difference between playing criminals off against each other and letting drug dealers poison children to glean information on political rivals.

If you say so.

And how come people call Republicans "terrorists" and "criminals" with monotonous uniformity? "Peelers" is also a common term for the RUC/PSNI, Loyalists use it themselves even. By the way a "Free Stater" is not someone from the 26 Counties, ie I'm from Waterford but I'm not a Free Stater. A Free Stater is an anti-Republican who believes in the absolutism of the 26 County State and is opposed to a united Ireland.

No its a derogatory term used by Sinn Fein/IRA supporters to describe residents of the Republic, and FYI despite what you may think the vast majority in the Republic aspire to a United Ireland by consent.

Armed struggle is simply a physical force method used to advance one's political objectives, it is not akin to Mafiaesque behaviour in either theory and practice and as much as you would like to portray it as such, the fact remains it isn't. The IRA are not criminals, never have been and they never will and the majority of people, while they disagree with the IRA, do not consider them "criminals".

The IRA, be it PIRA, CIRA, RIRA or any other form on "RA" you want, are criminals, have always been criminals, and will always be criminals, until they put their weapons beyond use,disband,and accept the democratic will of the people, as is the wish of the vast majority of Irish people on this island

jbkenn

A Dub in Glasgo

jbkenn wrote:

"Truth in the news" doe'nt exactly spring to mind when you mention that publication, a Sinn Fein/IRA propaganda sheet

AP/RN reports news that is from one side. That, in itself, does not mean the news it reports is not truthful. Most newspapers give their own particular slant.

Believe it or not, after 35 years ones interest in the day to day events in the North tends to wane

Understandable but it is no excuse for dismissing something

It's the Parachute Regiment actually, and, no we would'nt have known about their involvement on Bloody Sunday if you had'nt told us.

You see, you are getting an education as well!

As you do, did it ever dawn on them to just ignore the ba$tard$ for the few hours, and let them have their silly march in their silly hats.

What else will you advise people to ignore?

Me heart bleeds for him
Have a look a Gerry's C.V. here http://www.residentgroups.fsnet.co.uk/gerry%20kelly.htm

Not surprising they do not like Gerry Kelly, that is a Loyalist slanted (propagantist?) website

The IRA, be it PIRA, CIRA, RIRA or any other form on "RA" you want, are criminals, have always been criminals, and will always be criminals, until they put their weapons beyond use,disband,and accept the democratic will of the people, as is the wish of the vast majority of Irish people on this island

jbkenn

You sound like another who is ashamed of the birth of your country

jbkenn

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

AP/RN reports news that is from one side. That, in itself, does not mean the news it reports is not truthful. Most newspapers give their own particular slant.

Does'nt change the fact that An Phobhlact is a Sinn Fein/IRA propaganda sheet

What else will you advise people to ignore?

One of the major problems of Nothern Ireland is the inability of both sides to "ignore" anything, the residents were well within their rights to protest, but why do all these protests degenerate into violence, why not stand at the side of the street in silent protest only,or, better still, leave the streets deserted, that would give them something to think about.

Not surprising they do not like Gerry Kelly, that is a Loyalist slanted (propagantist?) website

Do you dispute any of the content?

You sound like another who is ashamed of the birth of your country

Dont even go there, you know nothing about me, or my background.

jbkenn

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You sound like another who is ashamed of the birth of your country

Theres a distinction between the old IRA and PIRA.
I think you probably know that he is talking about pira and not the old IRA

FTA69

mycroft wrote:

And therefore suffered for his beliefs from his personal experience than many in the IRA were in fact psychopaths

And as I stated above, it was not his "beliefs" that got him in trouble, it was his informing on Republicans. If that wasn't bad enough he wrote a book about his exploits and even had the nerve to move back into an estate among the people he ratted on. I have no sympathy for that man whatsoever.

Plenty more than you my boy, so spare me the condescending attitude, and I'll spare you mine, and I'm sure your beliefs have got you in a load of trouble from your armchair in Free west waterford.

I believe it was you that first started the condescension by labelling me an "armchair Republican" a chara, and believe it or not the Branch are up to the same behaviour here as they always were.

billy the squid

FRA69 wrote:

My copy and paste is broken for some reason so I can't provide a detailed link

yet you can copy and paste quotes from other users.

FTA69 wrote:

Google Ardoyne Violence Orange March and you will get plenty of interesting results

indeed

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2125099.stm
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2004/07/12/story156737.asp
http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/334386.htm
http://www.whistlestopper.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-14224
http://www.victims.org.uk/18-2-02a.html

and dont tell me i cherry picked these they were the first five stories using your keywords that came up on google. they don't put the republican protesters in a very good light now do they.

FTA69 wrote:

The Parades Commission ruled that an Orange march was not to parade past Ardoyne (a staunch Republican estate in North Belfast) but in the face of UDA threats overturned their decision

did you read that bit about the UDA threats in on Pobleacht too?

FTA69 wrote:

the RUC/PSNI and the Paratroop Regiment (the people who committed the Bloody Sunday massacre)

I'm sure that the paratroop and RUC members who were involved in bloody sunday were long since retired in 2004 when these incidents happened last summer. many of the security forces were not even born when bloody sunday happened. so you cannot hold people responsible for something their employer did long before they were born.

FTA69 wrote:

There is a big difference between playing criminals off against each other and letting drug dealers poison children to glean information on political rivals.

whose poining the children, who are the drug dealers, what the **** are you rambling on about.

FTA69 wrote:

And how come people call Republicans "terrorists" and "criminals" with monotonous uniformity?

a little misread don't you think. I don't call all republicans criminals or terrorists. just the IRA and the other groups who have weapons hidden away somewhere

why do i call the IRA terrorists, because they terrorize people in the hope that frightening them will help them get what they want.

why do I call them criminals. because incitement to violence is a crime, robbery is a crime, assault is a crime, murder is a crime.

Armed struggle is simply a physical force method used to advance one's political objectives, it is not akin to Mafiaesque behaviour in either theory and practice and as much as you would like to portray it as such, the fact remains it isn't. The IRA are not criminals, never have been and they never will and the majority of people, while they disagree with the IRA, do not consider them "criminals".

speaking of mafiaesque activity

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,1329465,00.html

there was another robbery in may of 2004 where 1.3 million worth of cigarettes were taken from a gallagher warehouse in the north.

http://www.sdlp.ie/pr26may2004.shtm

PARAMILITARIES MUST COME CLEAN - SDLP

SDLP Policing Spokesman Alex Attwood has called on all paramilitary organisations and parties associated with them to make clear whether they were involved in the £1 million armed robbery in Makro, Dunmurry Belfast.

He said, “The people who carried out this robbery were thieves and thugs. The nine-man gang callously held workers up with machine guns. They forced workers to show them around as they looted the store. This was no petty crime - up to 1 million pounds of goods was stolen. And it was no small band of criminals that carried it out. They were a large group of organised raiders. It is very hard to avoid the conclusion that paramilitaries carried out this raid.

“Raids by paramilitaries are putting business in crisis in the north. Because of the IRA’s armed robbery of millions of pounds worth of cigarettes near Jonesborough, cigarettes can no longer be transported across the border. If paramilitaries are also going to raid large multiples, there is a danger that they will no longer invest in the north and jobs will be lost. This cannot be allowed to happen.

“The SDLP is calling on all paramilitaries and all political parties associated with them to make it clear that they were not involved in this armed robbery. The paramilitaries were outraged by the IMC report but events like this only confirm fears of wide-spread paramilitary involvement in holding businesses up and ripping people off.”

thats some ceasefire you got going there.

FTA69 wrote:

They're the same peelers who continue to collude with Loyalist death-squads in providing information on Republicans, the same peelers who harras and beat people because of their political persuasions. They are probably the same peelers who grant immunity to drug-dealers in Nationalist areas so as to glean information.

yes but are they the same peelers who protected catholic children as they went to school yes or no.

FTA69

Earthman wrote:

FTA69,
What All the PSNI are corrupt?
I've no doubt some of them probably have sectarian views but every single one of them?

There are no absolutist stereotypes which fit every single member (there are a few that apply to the majority though). What does remain uniform though, is the onus of that force as a whole and that is to serve the political interests of the state. There is a big difference between a police service pre-occupied with protecting the people and a police force in existence to serve other peoples' agenda.

I doubt that it will happen though as its a minority thats asking for it.It would seem more reasonable to encourage catholics to take advantage of the 50:50 recruitment strategy.

But you see there is no point in having more Nationalists in a force whose ethos remains the same. All you will have then is more Nationalists cracking heads for the same old reason the RUC always did. The whole force itself must be overturned, a mixed membership is simply not good enough on its own.

In the mean time, it would seem reasonable to non alligned neutral observers for SF to be on the policing board and to be argu'ing for an even stronger police ombudsmans office than the already draconian one that exists.

But if Sinn Féin join the policing board they will become obligated to support an unreformed partisan force. Changes cannot be achieved from internal agitation alone, only the British Government has the power to implement change and we will not fall into the trap of supporting the PSNI before it is reformed.

mycroft

FTA69 wrote:

And as I stated above, it was not his "beliefs" that got him in trouble, it was his informing on Republicans. If that wasn't bad enough he wrote a book about his exploits and even had the nerve to move back into an estate among the people he ratted on. I have no sympathy for that man whatsoever.

Right so you believe in ex judicary killings, intimidation of private citizens, restriction of a persons human rights, and contempt for someone who engages in the legal system.

So feel his murder by paramilitaries was justified, while at the same time demand the release of Mc Cabe's killers. The IRA get everything in the good friday agreement, the families of people killed by IRA murders don't even get the small satisfication of finding the corpses of their love ones. Never mind any semblance of justice of the IRA exposing the names of the thugs who killed them.

And This is the kind of contempt you have for the victims of IRA terrorism, and you wonder why people are slightly skeptical of SF's platitutes.

I believe it was you that first started the condescension by labelling me an "armchair Republican" a chara, and believe it or not the Branch are up to the same behaviour here as they always were.

I'm not your friend "a chara" and enlight us about what the branch are up to.

Please dying to find out.

A Dub in Glasgo

Earthman wrote:

Theres a distinction between the old IRA and PIRA.
I think you probably know that he is talking about pira and not the old IRA

I can guess it but the statement


The IRA, be it PIRA, CIRA, RIRA or any other form on "RA" you want, are criminals, have always been criminals

indicates otherwise

billy the squid

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I can guess it but the statement


The IRA, be it PIRA, CIRA, RIRA or any other form on "RA" you want, are criminals, have always been criminals

indicates otherwise

I think the organisation he is refering to is pretty bloody obvious. your just getting into semantics now.

had collins called his men "the lollipop men" you can be sure that we would be talking about the "provisional lollipop men" today.

my point is that the IRA of today chose to use the name of the original IRA for some perverse reason, now when someone refers to IRA criminals you have the IRA supporters jumping up and down screaming "oyh so you think they were criminals in 1916 then?"

A Dub in Glasgo

jbkenn wrote:

Does'nt change the fact that An Phobhlact is a Sinn Fein/IRA propaganda sheet

By that criteria, almost all the media is peddling a line or an angle therefore they are propaganda sheets for someone (see your link for example)

Do you dispute any of the content?

The page is a mixture of fact, speculation and innenudo. I do not dispute the facts. You dismiss AP/RN for being propagandist then a few sentences later post 'stuff' about Gerry Kelly from a Loyalist website which is also propagantist

Dont even go there, you know nothing about me, or my background.

jbkenn

True but you do appear ashamed.

joe.

I'd like to see peace

Alex27

Some interesting news

The British government is considering a voluntary coalition in Northern Ireland which would freeze Sinn Féin out of office, republicans were warned tonight.

http://breaking.tcm.ie/story.asp?j=8475776&p=84758zz&n=8475864&x=

Talking about policing here is a article by Eamonn O`Neill that shows the difference between parties who are really interesting in peace and better life and ones whose main interest is preserving themselves. http://www.sdlp.ie/media/pressarchive/archivejusteq/proneillorde.shtm

Btw latest Steven`s report have been produced following consistent peaceful effort.

Political parties associated with paramilitaries might lose votes and become obsolete since majority people in North want peace.

mycroft

Alex27 wrote:

Some interesting news

http://breaking.tcm.ie/story.asp?j=8475776&p=84758zz&n=8475864&x=

Talking about policing here is a article by Eamonn O`Neill that shows the difference between parties who are really interesting in peace and better life and ones whose main interest is preserving themselves. http://www.sdlp.ie/media/pressarchive/archivejusteq/proneillorde.shtm

Btw latest Steven`s report have been produced following consistent peaceful effort.

Political parties associated with paramilitaries might lose votes and become obsolete since majority people in North want peace.

Good articles Alex hope you'll keep contributing to this site.

I'm currently in a warm bubble path place where the DUP and SF are essentially forced into retirement due to apathy.

Unfortunately due to grass roots support and dogmatic thick brained tattoo'd thugs on both sides ensure that it ain't going to happen.

We have the UWC and the workers strike from 30 years ago to see what will happen if the people are ignored, the williness to resort to violence among both communities is there. Plus there is an alternative system of government among both the republican and unionist communities which have displayedthe desire to upsurp the democratic process.