Go Metric: Go Safe and other oxymoronic statements

mackerski

ambro25 wrote:

*cough* car market size? *cough*
*cough* car market value? *cough*

Accepted 100%. I don't even know if those countries get RHD cars. But the point is, we lefties now have company in the EU.

Dermot

ambro25

Fair point.

However, it's worth remembering that -though not colonies (I don't think)- both islands have always had strong ties with the Brits, particularly since WWII.

Having spent a near-equivalent amount of experience-formative driving years on the Continent and in the UK, thus being able to and used to drive LHD/kph & RHD/mph (& happily hot-seating from one car to the other, as I have done inummerable times already), it's all a bit of a non-debate as far as I'm concerned.

I can appreciate the upset experienced by most people, particularly the 'generational' gap (a bit like going from Punt to €, or FRF to GBP to € for me), particularly as I just can't see the point of implementing metric speeds so long as 99.9% of the car market is still labelled in mph.

robinph

mackerski wrote:

*cough* Malta *cough*
*cough* Cyprus *cough*

Dermot

And actually Europe was only LHD as far as Germany until WWII. I think that Russia, Poland, Check republic (sp) etc and everything to the east was RHD until the Germans came along.

BrianD

Magpie wrote:

By this logic constant random changes in speed limit and/or the unit used to measure speed/distance would increase road safety by maximising the amount of time people have to spend checking their speed.

Magpie if you can't do the above while driving, you need to get off the road fast!!! There is no constant changes no more than there is anywhere else in the world.

There is no logical objection to any speed limits that have been enforced. The only reason people in Ireland object to them is because of the low standard of driving and they don't like being caught. They are careless and don't observe speed limits, they object to them because if they whinge enough they might be raised or abolished so it minimises their chances of being hauled in by the law. NRA stats indicate that Irish people seem to drive at a constant speed irrespective of the road conditions. how often do you hear some one say "I'm all for speed traps but I feel sorry for the guy caught doing 40 in a 30 zone". Blah Blah

As the ad say observe the signs and check your speed. It;s that simple. So simple that millions of other drivers do it around the world every day.

You are also misinterpreting the entire objective of the changeover. It is not a safety campaign as you seem to think. Its metriculation, nothing more. The powers that be are simplying using the opportunity to get a safety message accross - look at the signs and adjust your speed as required.

magpie

There is no logical objection to any speed limits that have been enforced.

Rubbish. I've already given the example of the National Road (N7) which has been designated a 60 km/ph zone (38mph) as opposed to the 100km/ph of other National Roads, while you can go from Sallins to Clane at 80km/ph on a winding, potholed country track. And oddly not a guard to be seen on the country road, while on my way home I counted 7 guards on the N7, and saw another 4 on my in today. Like I keep saying, the bulk of fatal accidents don't happen on dual carriageways, so why enforce the limits there? For more examples of ludicrous limits see this thread.

As the ad say observe the signs and check your speed. It;s that simple. So simple that millions of other drivers do it around the world every day.

Thanks for that insight. If it's "that simple" then why spend €2.5 million of our money on an 'awareness campaign'?

Its metriculation, nothing more.

Actually, it's metrification, or metrication. Perhaps you have got it confused with 'Matriculation'.

In general, I'm a little surprised at the sanctimonious tone of your post given that you spent this thread complaining about people who beep you when you illegally undertake by zooming up the inside lane and then cut into a stream of traffic in order to get 3 cars ahead. But then you're a 'safe' driver right?

BrianD

Magpie wrote:

In general, I'm a little surprised at the sanctimonious tone of your post given that you spent this thread complaining about people who beep you when you illegally undertake by zooming up the inside lane and then cut into a stream of traffic in order to get 3 cars ahead. But then you're a 'safe' driver right?

Perhaps you might re-read my post. I carried out no illegal move as I moved from the left lane to the overtaking lane and back again. As you may or may not know, this is a perfectly legitimate move. You may recall that the speed limit on a m-way in 70mph which I was travelling at, while other motorists decide to travel at a constant 65mph in the overtaking lane. Some motorists seem to believe that you need a mile to the front or rear of them before such a manoever takes place.

Am I a safe driver? One could never be so presumptious as it may lead to complacency. I heed the posted speed limits at all times - sure I might find myself a little over or under an adjust accordingly. Your read of my original posting suggest that you would be one of those motorists sitting in the overtaking lane at 65mph who will continue at the same speed intoa 40 zone and then into a built up area.

You can metrify the above at your own leisure. Matriculation, ah those were the days!

Magpie wrote:

Thanks for that insight. If it's "that simple" then why spend €2.5 million of our money on an 'awareness campaign'?

You do know that we have changed from miles KM, don't you??? (Though I'd ask just in case). It is not a safety awareness campaign its too inform the public about the changeover. Having said that it would appear that a secondary objective is to encourage motorists to be more aware of what speed that they are travelling at.

Magpie wrote:

Rubbish. I've already given the example of the National Road (N7) which has been designated a 60 km/ph zone (38mph) as opposed to the 100km/ph of other National Roads, while you can go from Sallins to Clane at 80km/ph on a winding, potholed country track. And oddly not a guard to be seen on the country road, while on my way home I counted 7 guards on the N7, and saw another 4 on my in today. Like I keep saying, the bulk of fatal accidents don't happen on dual carriageways, so why enforce the limits there? For more examples of ludicrous limits see this thread.

If I am correct the section that you are referring to is between Rathcoole (thereabouts - maybe Kill) and the start on the M7 at Naas. This stretch of road is currently being widened to 3-lanes with a number of grade separated junctions to be constructed. 60Km/h through a building site makes perfect sense to me under those conditions.

gerrydublin

magpie wrote:

You are either a lunatic or a comic genius. I'm not sure yet.

I’m serious about the local roads in Cork. It would do you no harm to experience it. It’s not unusual to be about to take a bend (bending around to the left) and meet a car coming in the opposite direction on the inside of the bend. The local authorities don’t bother to even put down white lines, they fear it would give drivers the false illusion that there is room for two cars to pass.
This is how accidents occur, drivers think the road was specifically built for cars, they don’t realise that it just descended from a road once used by a horse and cart and has had some tarmacadam put down(or at least some was put down in some parts of the road by a man and shovel it looks like at times).

Anyway as regards metrification, it ever there is a need for it, it’s in the drinks industry.
Last month, I got screwed by a pub (that shall rename anonymous) in Donnybrook. In my local off licence, a 500ml bottle of Erdinger is the same price as a 500ml bottle of Miller,
however a 500ml glass of Erdinger in this pub costs about 40cent more than a 568ml (or a pint) glass of Miller. Only in Ireland. Do you think I could convince the barman of the insanity of their pricing.

But it seems it’s an Irish thing. Only recently in a petrol garage (again that shall remain anonymous), a guy in his twenties asked for a pint of milk. The man behind the counter gave him a half litre of milk, which I suppose is close enough, and this guy never questioned it. Although where yer man thought he was, looking for a pint a milk, as far as I can remember Avonmore or Premier Dairies never made a pint cardboard CARTON of milk, they only made ½ a litre, 1 litre and 2 litre cartons.
As regards the price difference between the ½ litre carton and the 1 litre carton, well to be fair I suppose we’d all try to screw people if we thought they wouldn’t cop it. :rolleyes:

I can’t wait for the day I can go into a restaurant and be able to see steak quoted in grams. Ounces, who the hell uses ounces. If ever people are out to screw the foreigners and us born after decimalisation, it’s the restaurant owners. We know what a 1kg box of cornflakes is, a 100g packet of Denny ham, a 20g bag crisps, a 200g tub of butter is, and millions others, so why do they think that we may have trouble understanding a 200g or a 400g steak. We won’t, hence by putting it in a unit of measurement that we can’ t relate it to anything else, they can screw us. :mad:

BrianD

I regularly go up to the meat counter in the local supermarket and ask for 450g of minced beef. What's even funnier is that they look oddly and then proceed to weigh it on their metric scales. While they are doing this I get to rant on about the ridiculous 5mph speed limit in the car park.

Victor

magpie wrote:

On brand spanking new 3 lane roads there are nonsensical 60 km/ph speed limits,

Where?

magpie wrote:

This leads me to believe that the Gardai are merely filling quotas

But the Garda doesn't set limits.

Victor

gerrydublin wrote:

But it seems it’s an Irish thing. Only recently in a petrol garage (again that shall remain anonymous), a guy in his twenties asked for a pint of milk. The man behind the counter gave him a half litre of milk, which I suppose is close enough, and this guy never questioned it. Although where yer man thought he was, looking for a pint a milk, as far as I can remember Avonmore or Premier Dairies never made a pint cardboard CARTON of milk, they only made ½ a litre, 1 litre and 2 litre cartons.
As regards the price difference between the ½ litre carton and the 1 litre carton, well to be fair I suppose we’d all try to screw people if we thought they wouldn’t cop it. :rolleyes:

When that particular set of rules changed, pints were only allowed for re-usable containers - primarily milk bottles and beer glasses.

DubTony

Victor wrote:

But the Garda doesn't set limits.

Does anyone really believe that Superintendents don't send their men out to "catch speeders". There may not be a quota but you can bet that each Garda is required to spend some of his time every week or month behind a laser or radar.

I don't know any Gardai, but I'm sure the average Garda doesn't hide behind bus shelters and hedges for half a day pissing people off because he wants to.

The simplest way to enforce speed limits is a visible deterrent. Why else would the British have changed the colour of speed camera boxes to bright yellow. The more speed checks that are done in more and more locations, the less speeding will occur.

Case in point, the N81 (Tallaght By-Pass) heading from the M50 to Spawell. There have been so many camera vans and Gardai behind bus the shelter, that speeding on that stretch of road rarely happens. While the same section of road heading in the opposite direction sees speeds regularly exceed 80 km/h in a 60 km/h zone.

Tony

BrianD3

gerrydublin wrote:

Although where yer man thought he was, looking for a pint a milk, as far as I can remember Avonmore or Premier Dairies never made a pint cardboard CARTON of milk, they only made ½ a litre, 1 litre and 2 litre cartons.

Well I definitely remember actual pints (not 1/2 litres) of milk being sold in cartons until very recently. I haven't paid much attention to milk cartons for a couple of years though so perhaps things have changed

Victor wrote:

When that particular set of rules changed, pints were only allowed for re-usable containers - primarily milk bottles and beer glasses.

Pints may not be allowed, but there's nothing stopping anyone selling a 568 ml carton of milk

BrianD3

magpie

60Km/h through a building site makes perfect sense to me under those conditions.

It's the first building site I've seen that has 2 lanes of unobstructed traffic travelling at 60mph in either direction through it. But don't let the truth get in the way of a good story right?

The simplest way to enforce speed limits is a visible deterrent. Why else would the British have changed the colour of speed camera boxes to bright yellow.

That's because the British want to get drivers to slow down in dangerous areas, whereas the Guards want to punish drivers, fill quotas and generate revenue. Hiding behind a bus shelter with a radar gun is not the way to get a stream of traffic to slow down, it's just a way of targetting random motorists to receive fines.

MrPudding

magpie wrote:

Hiding behind a bus shelter with a radar gun is not the way to get a stream of traffic to slow down, it's just a way of targetting random motorists to receive fines.

It is also a good way to catch a criminal in the process of carrying out a criminal act. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good story eh?

MrP

lomb

MrP i must say you are very happy with the governments performance in various matters. u should get together with ray burke, the garda commisioner, liam lalwor and have a hash party

MrPudding

lomb wrote:

MrP i must say you are very happy with the governments performance in various matters. u should get together with ray burke, the garda commisioner, liam lalwor and have a hash party

I am not in the least bit happy with many of the things the gov has done and is continuing to do. This does not take away from the fact that by speeding you are breaking the law the the Guards are perfectly entitled to "do you" for it. I have a problem with some of the speed limits in cetain areas. I also have a problem with how they are policed. I think I made my opinions clear in a earlier post. But, if you spped you are breaking the law. Simple. Other peoples bahaviour or law breaking are not relevent.

MrP

MG

gerrydublin wrote:

I’m serious about the local roads in Cork. It would do you no harm to experience it. It’s not unusual to be about to take a bend (bending around to the left) and meet a car coming in the opposite direction on the inside of the bend. The local authorities don’t bother to even put down white lines, they fear it would give drivers the false illusion that there is room for two cars to pass.

I'm probably going to get lynched here for saying it as boards is fairly Dublin dominated but driving in the centre of the road is accepted practice on rural roads and believe it or not it is safe, I think safer. I grew up with rural roads and I noticed it when I was younger when my father drove and then myself when I became older. The trick on narrow rural roads is to drive with one wheel just over the white line (or where you think the centre of the road is) and be absolutely ready to slow and dive back to a side for other cars and corners. I once drove with a foreigner who tried to stay inside the white line while driving in Kerry - frightening! The road is as much your enemy as other cars on these roads, staying slightly to the centre gives you better control.

BrianD

Magpie wrote:

It's the first building site I've seen that has 2 lanes of unobstructed traffic travelling at 60mph in either direction through it. But don't let the truth get in the way of a good story right?

Magpie perhaps I used the term "building site" loosely but you know what I mean. To be honest, you should have copped the reasoning behind the 60km limit long ago. Again, underlines the reasons why most commentators who say speed limits are inappropriate just aren't qualified to do so. The N7 roadworks may only be in the initial stages and not obtrusive but they have started none the less. There has been fixed and mobile LEd signage up since the start of the year informing the general public.

I agree with you that there needs to be a visible and omni-present policing of our roads. It doesn't matter whether its overt or covert as long as there is a realistic expectation from the driving public that they may be caught if they exceed the limit.

magpie

you should have copped the reasoning behind the 60km limit long ago

I copped the reasoning on the miniscule section that actually has road works ongoing, in the naas-dublin direction. Its the sections that will have road works at some unspecified future date being zoned the same speed that is confusing.

It is also a good way to catch a criminal in the process of carrying out a criminal act.

Good to know where you stand on this, Herr Himmler. If everyone who exceeds the speed limit is, as you suggest, a criminal, then we are a nation of criminals. In which case, might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb...

DubTony

MrPudding wrote:

It is also a good way to catch a criminal in the process of carrying out a criminal act. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good story eh?

MrP

And that's the major issue. Catching speeders is one thing that any police force can set out to do. That, and nabbing prostitutes. Police can't set out to catch shoplifters. They can't set out to catch bankrobbers. Nor can they set out to catch murderers. ...or house breakers, or muggers, or rapists, or kidnappers, or paedophiles, or fraudsters, etc.

The fact is that the Gardai purposely go out on the road to CATCH people speeding. Car drivers are without a doubt the easiest targets on the planet.

MrPudding, let me put this in a way you'll understand. Good policing is about crime prevention, not crime detection. Sure, anone who speeds is breaking the law and can blame no-one but themselves, but it's easy to sit there and judge people,

MrPudding wrote:

by speeding you are breaking the law

it's a whole other thing to offer reasonable suggestions as to how to address the problem. Maybe you could get off your high horse and get back to giving us some creative and useful posts.

Tony

MrPudding

DubTony wrote:

MrPudding, let me put this in a way you'll understand. Good policing is about crime prevention, not crime detection. Sure, anone who speeds is breaking the law and can blame no-one but themselves, but it's easy to sit there and judge people, it's a whole other thing to offer reasonable suggestions as to how to address the problem. Maybe you could get off your high horse and get back to giving us some creative and useful posts.

Tony

If you tried reading the thread instead of accusing me of being on a high horse you might not look like such a prick. Read post 24 & 36. I do not presume to know the solution but there are a number of things I would like to see.

MrP

DubTony

MrPudding wrote:

If you tried reading the thread instead of accusing me of being on a high horse you might not look like such a prick. Read post 24 & 36. I do not presume to know the solution but there are a number of things I would like to see.

MrP

I have read the thread, and all I see is you regurgitating the same rubbish. You make no arguements or suggestions that contribute.

Be abusive if that's your style, it doesn't bother me. You may have noticed I suggest you "get back" to giving us something conctructive. Any credibility you had has just gone the way of your nonsensical posts. Consider yourself ignored.

Tony

BrianD

Magpie wrote:

I copped the reasoning on the miniscule section that actually has road works ongoing, in the naas-dublin direction. Its the sections that will have road works at some unspecified future date being zoned the same speed that is confusing.

It's ahuge bloody project! While the works might be in their infancy they are all along the carriageway at different locations and will be expanding.

You are really barking up the wrong tree on this one. It's not an example of an inappropriate speed limit it is an example on an appropriate one.

magpie

It's ahuge bloody project!

Granted, it will be. But why not erect permanent 100km/ph signs along the road and then have temporary 60km/ph signs on the sections where work is being done, as it is being done?

Anyhoo, we both know the answer to this from another thread, which is to do with arcane legislation and who is allowed to allocate temporary speed limits for roadworks etc. i.e. they've made a pig's ear of it and there is no real justification for the entire road having a reduced limit, certainly not as it stands now.

Victor

Apparently the Naas Road project is going to be complete in Q1 2006, which suggests it's going to become a very big project, very quickly.

mackerski

MrPudding wrote:

It is also a good way to catch a criminal in the process of carrying out a criminal act. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good story eh?

Facts, eh? How about the fact that speeding isn't a criminal offence? If it were, there'd be an awful lot of folks with criminal records.

Dermot