Inappropriate Speed limits?

mobpd

Hi
Here's a couple more speed limits in force that to me are totally inappropriate...

There's a rural road that is quite narrow, plenty of sharp bends, hump backed bridge, fierce potholes that is posted with 80 km/h - heaven help if anyone actually does that ..

Similarly there's a road that goes through a housing estate that is marked as 60 km/h - but there are those severe speed bumps every 200 yds or so - how could anyone do 60 even in between the bumps....

Then I know they're working on upgrading the N7 from Naas but the section from Johnstown to Kill has no roadworks on the main road yet - yet the permanent looking speed signs are posted as 60 km/h - the previous limit was 50 mph - and no-one used to adhere to this - have yet to see one car keep to 60 km'h on this section of 'good' dual carriageway since yesterday.

DukeDredd

mobpd wrote:

Hi
Here's a couple more speed limits in force that to me are totally inappropriate...

There's a rural road that is quite narrow, plenty of sharp bends, hump backed bridge, fierce potholes that is posted with 80 km/h - heaven help if anyone actually does that ..

Similarly there's a road that goes through a housing estate that is marked as 60 km/h - but there are those severe speed bumps every 200 yds or so - how could anyone do 60 even in between the bumps....

Then I know they're working on upgrading the N7 from Naas but the section from Johnstown to Kill has no roadworks on the main road yet - yet the permanent looking speed signs are posted as 60 km/h - the previous limit was 50 mph - and no-one used to adhere to this - have yet to see one car keep to 60 km'h on this section of 'good' dual carriageway since yesterday.

Well nobody is forced to drive AT the speed limit. I think people have common sense not to go that fast down a really crappy road.

Our man in Havana

mobpd wrote:

Hi
Here's a couple more speed limits in force that to me are totally inappropriate...

There's a rural road that is quite narrow, plenty of sharp bends, hump backed bridge, fierce potholes that is posted with 80 km/h - heaven help if anyone actually does that ..

Similarly there's a road that goes through a housing estate that is marked as 60 km/h - but there are those severe speed bumps every 200 yds or so - how could anyone do 60 even in between the bumps....

Then I know they're working on upgrading the N7 from Naas but the section from Johnstown to Kill has no roadworks on the main road yet - yet the permanent looking speed signs are posted as 60 km/h - the previous limit was 50 mph - and no-one used to adhere to this - have yet to see one car keep to 60 km'h on this section of 'good' dual carriageway since yesterday.

Roll on the Garda Revenue generating machine. Expect loads of people from Naas and the surrounding areas to be banned in the near future.

magpie

Then I know they're working on upgrading the N7 from Naas but the section from Johnstown to Kill has no roadworks on the main road yet - yet the permanent looking speed signs are posted as 60 km/h - the previous limit was 50 mph - and no-one used to adhere to this - have yet to see one car keep to 60 km'h on this section of 'good' dual carriageway since yesterday

It's ridiculous. 38mph on a dual carriageway. The only possible reason for this lunacy is revenue generation.

As you drive from Dublin on the N7 there are speed changes all over the shop, like the section under the bridge on the 3 lane road that goes from 100 kmph to 60kmph, then back to 100. But that long section of 60kmph road takes the p1ss.

OfflerCrocGod

mobpd wrote:

There's a rural road that is quite narrow, plenty of sharp bends, hump backed bridge, fierce potholes that is posted with 80 km/h - heaven help if anyone actually does that ..

It's OK, Darwin will take care of those people.

ambro25

D'you mean Newton?

mike65

OfflerCrocGod means Darwinism, though Newtonian laws will help here!

Mike.

MaceFace

Regarding the 60km/h limit on the Naas Road, who do we actually complain to.
Anyone got names/numbers?

Don't know how many times I was nearly rear-ended yesterday by people as I was the only one doing the 60km/h.

ambro25

Can't URL the pix only, but -essentially- a picture paints a thousand words:

I'm sure you've all seen it, but...

edmund_f

compain to you local TD I assume?

I have just given up, and resigned myself to the fact that more people are going to die on our roads, the cops are going to get richer, and all my journeys are going to take 30% longer. Welcome to the new safer Ireland

Nuttzz

Contact your local councillor, the local authorties have the power to decide on speed limits

magpie

Another thread on this here

BrianD

Whatever about appropriate speed limits, the person who put up that sign and the person who instructed him to do so should be suspended from their jobs.

There is an obvious conflict of information here. The speed limit may well be 100km/h but the signage and lights when flashing indicates a hazard and a motorist should reduce their speed to take account of the school ahead. This signage now implies that even when the lights flash the speed limit is 100 km/h.

In my view, speed limit signs should all be the same size and mounted separately to under signs so as to have maximum visibility. It would also be useful to paint the limit on the road as well for additional impact.

Magpie, you must a very young or a relatively new driver because it is unrealistic for speed limits to stay constant on any road. The vary for safety reasons. This is the norm everywhere in the world. The former 50mph zone between Kill and the M7 was appropriate because of the number of accidents. 60 km/h seems a bit odd but then this whole section is being widened over the coming months.

Lord Nikon

I was driving down the Naas roads last night at about 9.30pm, going to Dublin. I was so annoyed at the speed limit. It's usually 50mph(80kph) just after the lights at Kill. Not anymore, now its 37mph(60kph). This is lunacy, 60kph from Kill to the Rathcoole flyover, it's a national road. The governent said that National roads would have a limit of 62mph(100kph).

I was so annoyed at the fact that other drivers were speeding past me at, at least 62mph(100kph) and I was crawling along at 60kph in the slow lane. There should be a gatso sitting on the central reservation. Garranteed if i was speeding i would get caught. So I moved into the overtake lane and enjoyed everyone screeching up behind me, I'm gonna do this from now on.

neuro

MaceFace

Okay,

Anyone who disagrees with the fact that the Naas Road speed limit of 37.5 mph is wrong, should contact this guy:

Joe Boland and his email is jboland@kildarecoco.ie

Already contacted him through a councillor. Will see what he says (no doubt blaming people who speed)l

magpie

Magpie, you must a very young or a relatively new driver

Neither actually. In my 30s with 10 years driving.

it is unrealistic for speed limits to stay constant on any road. The vary for safety reasons.

I fail to see how jamming on the brakes to go from 100km/ph to 60 km/ph purely to enter an underpass on a dual carriageway increases road safety. I don't expect limits to stay constant, I just expect them to make sense.

In my view, speed limit signs should all be the same size and mounted separately to under signs so as to have maximum visibility. It would also be useful to paint the limit on the road as well for additional impact.

I agree.

magpie

Let's all get in touch with Mr Boland and see what he has to say:


To: jboland@kildarecoco.ie

Dear Sir,

With regard to the current 50 km/ph speed limit on the Naas Road.

I understand that road widening works may be going on in this stretch of road in future, but at present this speed limit is unrealistic and unsatisfactory.

Any driver maintaining that speed causes an obstruction (I know, I tried it this morning) and merely increases the numbers of persons overtaking, undertaking or generally driving less safely than if they maintained lane discipline at a steady 100 km/ph.

Traffic on this road was doing an average of 100 km/ph in a completely safe manner. Reducing the speed limit has done nothing to reduce actual speed, it has merely criminalised every driver who uses the road. I suggest 100 km/ph as a more realistic limit for the N7, as per any other National Road.

Best Regards

fletch

neuromancer wrote:

So I moved into the overtake lane and enjoyed everyone screeching up behind me, I'm gonna do this from now on.

I agree entirely that the speed limit on this road is ridiculous but hogging the outside lane to slow other road users down is so childish....It is not you're job to police the road(that is unless you are a guard):p
If people want to break the speed limit, that is their business, not your's. You are breaking the law by hogging the outside lane, which is for overtaking as I'm sure you well know

edmund_f

well said Fletch..
Agree with magpie, should all get in contact with the J Boland person, perhaps a cc to a few radio stations or RTE?. Posting here will have no effect, perhaps contacting Mr. Boland may have some hope of changing things?

Our man in Havana

Cue the presence of GATSO vans at peak periods.

Found this in the Road Traffic Act 2004:

Section 12 (1) c

A Speed Limit of 80 Kilometers per hour in lieu of special speedlimit of 50 miles per hour.

Also they need an order to get a road works limit:

10.—(1) The manager of a county or a city council may, where he or she considers it is in the interests of road safety, on a road ormotorway or part of a road or motorway where road works are beingcarried out in the administrative area of the county or city councilfor which he or she is the manager, by order (“road works speedlimit order”) apply to the road or motorway or part of it a special limit (“road works speed limit”) being a speed limit of not less than30 kilometres per hour, as the speed limit on the road or motorway Speed limits at roadworks.

(2) A road works speed limit order is in force for the duration ofthe road works, subject to no such order having effect for a period of more than 12 months from the date of its making.
(3) A road works speed limit order shall not be made in respectof a national road or a motorway, without the prior written consent of the National Roads Authority.
(4) Before making a road works speed limit order the manager concerned shall notify the Commissioner in writing of his or her intention to make the order.
(5) The manager shall consider any representations made in writing by the Commissioner received by the manager within one monthof the notification.
(6) When a road works speed limit order is made the manager concerned shall publish a notice in one or more newspapers circulating in the county or city council to which the order relates indicatingthe location where the order will have effect, the period for which itwill have effect and the speed limit being applied through the order. The manager shall have regard to any representations that are made to him or her in relation to the road works speed limit order.
(7) A manager may at any time within the period specified insubsection (2) revoke or amend a road works speed limit order madeby him or her.
(8) A document which purports to be a copy of a road worksspeed limit order which has endorsed on it a certificate purportingto be signed by the manager making the order or an officer of thelocal authority concerned designated by the manager stating that the document is a true copy of the order and that the order was in force on a specified day, shall, without proof of the signature of such man-ager or officer or that he or she was in fact such manager or officer,be evidence, until the contrary is shown, in every court and in alllegal proceedings, of the order and of the fact that it was in force onthat date.

Not only do they need an order, said order must be in at least 2 newspapers and the commissioner and the NRA must be informed.
Has anyone checked to see if such an order exists to alter the speedlimit from 80km/h to 60km/h?

magpie

You're not serious about the GATSO vans being out on this stretch are you? Wherever there's money to be made...

fletch

Bond-007, you are correct in what you are sayin....a mate of mine got away with a speeding ticket before because the signpost on the road he was travelling on had not received planning permission....worth investigating
But with such a major road like the N7 and the massive development that is taking place, I'm sure all legal matters would have been dealt with.....but then again this is Ireland

MaceFace

I have received replies from 3 councillors now and 2 have flatly said it is completly wrong. They are contacting this Boland character to find out what can be done.
Going to contact him myself as well.

mackerski

BrianD wrote:

In my view, speed limit signs should all be the same size and mounted separately to under signs so as to have maximum visibility.

No and maybe. Different sized roads (with differing speed profiles) require different sign sizes to reflect the distance at which they are to be read. Furthermore, the law specifies that a repeater speed limit sign should be smaller than the sign that starts a limit zone. You can argue against the usefulness of repeaters, though, since the distinction appears to have been arbitrary for years, a lot of countries don't use them anyway and they're becoming unhelpful (driving from Clonee village to enter N3 North you pass from an 80 to a 100 zone - the 100 zone is introduced only by a small repeater sign).

Fixing speed limit signs to posts carrying other signs is valid, though - but only in cases where there's a joint purpose to both signs, which your opening point seems to acknowledge. So on a national road, it seems better to mount a 60-zone sign on a pole with a "bends ahead" sign if that's the reason for the limit. It reinforces public respect for a reasonable limit. Contrary to some views expressed here, this is a necessary process.

Dermot

mackerski

neuromancer wrote:

I was so annoyed at the fact that other drivers were speeding past me at, at least 62mph(100kph) and I was crawling along at 60kph in the slow lane. There should be a gatso sitting on the central reservation. Garranteed if i was speeding i would get caught. So I moved into the overtake lane and enjoyed everyone screeching up behind me, I'm gonna do this from now on.

You know that this is an offence, right? And a danger to road traffic? In other words, it's everything that exceeding the speed limit supposedly is (though isn't always in practice).

Shame on you. The sooner they start issuing penalty points for this kind of muppetry the better. Let's recite the mantra together - "There's more than one road traffic offence". Hummmmmmmmmmmmm.

Dermot

Lord Nikon

You know that this is an offence, right? And a danger to road traffic?

Dermot

Oh, and speeding isn't an offence, and isn't a danger to road traffic? Hence the speed limit on said road.

MG

The most criminal of all are the 80kmph on excellent non national roads. I heard a motoring correspondant of some Sunday newspaper on 5-7 live last week. He called these artificially slow and would cause problems in the future. I saw a near miss at the weekend, where a car frustrated at driving 80kmph on an excellent R road overtook dangerously and nearly didn't make it.

seamus

neuromancer wrote:

Oh, and speeding isn't an offence,

It is.

and isn't a danger to road traffic? Hence the speed limit on said road.

Speeding does not equal danger. That's half of the problem with the thinking behind Irish driving. Reducing a speed limit on a road does not automatically make higher speeds less safe, just like increasing the limit does not make higher speeds more safe.

Inappropriate speed is dangerous, driving above the speed limit is not necessarily dangerous. A speed limit however is supposed to reflect the appropriate speed on that road, in clear conditions. We do however know that the theory and the practice don't always gel. The southbound M50, and innumerable other sections where the limit is inexplicably low undermine the point of a speed limit system. Ditto for back roads where the limit is still 100kph, when it should be 80.

What you were doing is dangerous and illegal. For a start, it is an offence to drive in the right hand lane unless you are overtaking. Secondly, causing an obstruction for other vehicles is dangerous driving. Intentionally causing an obstruction is just bare-faced idiocy, and something you should be disqualified for.

You do not have any authority on the road. You are not permitted to use your vehicle to enforce road laws on other users. Your only obligation is to ensure *you* are driving in a safe manner. Attempting to obstruct others means that you aren't driving in a safe manner, and therefore you are at fault.

If you wish to aid the police in enforcing the law, bring a tape recorder with you and make a note of all the numberplates you see driving at excessive speed, then report them to the Gardai.

ToxicPaddy

Ive seen some fairly crazy things since the switch to KPH but the strangest has
to be the main Waterford to Tramore road...

When you're leaving Waterford to go to Tramore its 100kph zone and the signs
say so.. however on the same road heading in the opposite direction, from
Tramore to Waterford its only an 80kph zone...

explain that one to me please??? :rolleyes:

Tox

mackerski

neuromancer wrote:

Oh, and speeding isn't an offence,

Yup, it is...

neuromancer wrote:

and isn't a danger to road traffic?

You'd imagine that should be the theory. The jury appears to be out on this particular stretch. Either way, if you fancy yourself as a speed-limit enforcer, I suggest you apply to be accepted into Templemore, actually learn the law of the land (and how to drive, BTW) and then come back and apply approved methods to the task.

Until then, obey the road-traffic acts. All of them, not just your favourite one.

Dermot

MaceFace

Many thanks to the councillor in question, but it does show how stupid some things really are in this country:

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START OF REPLY

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I talked to KCC Road Design and the NRA engineer who has charge of the project and the following is the response.

Firstly speed limites are underpinned by bye laws giving them legal effect. Both KCC and South Dublin agreed to speed limites which are now in place, both were requested to do so to facilitate the project. The Dept Environment was also involved in advising the Councils as were the Gardai.

The speed limits were set under the old road's road act which did not allow for temporary speed limits to be applied, the new road's act does (new act became law Dec04), there would have been a preference by the engineers to apply the limits to the area's were work is going on, however on the advice of the Dept of the Environment this could not be done under the old act when the work was planned. The project team and KCC are currently considering if the new road act which allows the County Manager to apply temporary speed limits (where roadworks are the reason) if an amendment can now be made.

While the new Road's act is now in place believe it or not, the Department has not finalised the regulations which are the set of instructions as to how to apply it (very Irish), the project team and the Council are in discussions with the Dept about this.

From March there will be four sections of the road along the stretch where the contractor will be working on the existing carriageway, in those locations the speed limits will be reinforced by using the mobile digital speed limit screen, there will be 1200 construction traffic movements during peak times to facilitate the project (more construction traffic movements outside of peak time) Temporary traffic management will be in place in these locations. There are contract penalties for the loss of a second lane so its in his interest to keep both lanes operational even if we have to put up with that at a reduced speed.

At this stage I cant say if a change will be made it very much depends on the availability of the regulations from the Dept for the new act. I have asked the Council's Road section to let me know when the regulations are available in order that I can pursue this with them when something can be done.

Even if the above does not answer your query as you would have liked, I hope the reply makes sense.

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END REPLY

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So, it does kind of make sense, but it is still a very stupid thing!