Happy with the number of immigrants in Ireland?

billy the squid

you never answered my question, if chinese people are born in china, why should the not be allowed to live in another country other than china. I mean the majority of the population of america and austrailia are decendants of people from other countries are they not, look how great those countries are thanks to multiculturalism.

aidan_walsh

billy the squid wrote:

you never answered my question, if chinese people are born in china, why should the not be allowed to live in another country other than china. I mean the majority of the population of america and austrailia are decendants of people from other countries are they not, look how great those countries are thanks to multiculturalism.

Nor mine regarding your views on fellow members of the EU...

GuanYin

Actually I do have a serious question.

Is it just Chinese and Africans or do you want rid of Indians, Iranians, Italians, Koreans, Slovakians, Americans and English too?

If there are some nationalities that can stay and others that can't why is this the case in your opinion?

Secondly, do you feel that all IRish people living aborad should be deported back to IReland, seeing as our presence abroad constitutes multiculturalism too.

BlitzKrieg

Teneka wrote:

Poor Pete...



The reason is because I'm against multiculturalism. Nothing too complicated for you there Pete?

define the elements of multiculturalism you are against?


Is it the threat it posses to irish culture? (if thats the case be true to it, speak irish, watch only RTE made programs and eat irish stew...no Mcdonalds, no japanese computer games etc etc.)

Or is it something else?


I'm guessing a bit of it is our governments policy (actually feeding them MY GOD!) towards immigrants. well sorry but if a government is being practical they would accept immigrants for numerous reasons...but here are some simple ones:

-When fully accepted into irish society they take up important roles in our economy. pay taxes like everyone else and in the long run so will their children etc etc. Therefore increasing government revenue in the long run.

-Not only that but they help keep the irish economy in a somewhat healthy state (despite irish people inflating the economy itself during and after the celtic tiger) by being part of our evergrowing workforce.

-Government duties to the international society (referred to again and again in this post as the UN decleration of human rights) but also to the vote of the irish people.



oh and to answer your original question. Yes I am happy with the number of immigrants in ireland and i encourage all countries to allow the free movement of people whether it be for humanitarian or economic reasons.

bobbyjoe

I'm happy with the numbers of immigrants to Ireland I think they contribute greatly to the economy and culture here.

Meh

I an unhappy with the number of immigrants in Ireland, I think there should be more of them. We need an immigration system like Canada's, where anyone who meets the requirements for skills/qualifications/language can come and live here. We should also reform the current work permit system, where immigrants are tied to a certain employer.

Teneka

pay taxes like everyone else and in the long run so will their children etc etc. Therefore increasing government revenue in the long run.

Believe me, I know of many foreign employees being paid cash in hand - in the different jobs I worked at.

Simply, expenditure on this area is foolish in my eyes. What about the old, the sick, our youth etc? Look at this area closely, you'll see what it needs. They're not getting it.

Another thing, would it bother you, lets say, in 20 years time if we had a president who was born in China? Or anywhere for that case, just that the Chinese are the most commonly found foreigner on these lands.

By the way, if you want to see where a majority of them spend their money check out Boylesports someday. You'll be surprised.

And I did answer the questions asked previously.

A Dub in Glasgo

According to some on this board, our current President is a foreigner and our 1st President was a foreigner. How do you reconcile that?

Meh

Teneka wrote:

Another thing, would it bother you, lets say, in 20 years time if we had a president who was born in China?

We currently have a president who was born in a different country and the sky hasn't fallen yet.

Or anywhere for that case, just that the Chinese are the most commonly found foreigner on these lands.

Incorrect. British citizens are the most commonly found foreigner in this country (source)

therecklessone

Teneka wrote:

Another thing, would it bother you, lets say, in 20 years time if we had a president who was born in China? Or anywhere for that case, just that the Chinese are the most commonly found foreigner on these lands.

I'd have more of a problem with a native such as yourself who pursues such a poorly researched agenda and then gets evasive and abusive when challenged.

Teneka wrote:

By the way, if you want to see where a majority of them spend their money check out Boylesports someday. You'll be surprised.

How thoroughly scientific of you. Must be some size of a shop if a majority can fit in it...

Teneka wrote:

And I did answer the questions asked previously.

No you didn't.

Unanswered question

Unanswered question

Unanswered question

ecksor

Teneka wrote:

Another thing, would it bother you, lets say, in 20 years time if we had a president who was born in China? Or anywhere for that case, just that the Chinese are the most commonly found foreigner on these lands.

I think you'll find that the President is appointed by a direct vote of the people, so therefore it's likely that if a China born person were to become president then it would have been the will of the people.

koneko

Ah man, so I have to move back to the country I was born in, because that's the way things are supposed to be?

Ok, thanks Teneka, for enlightening me. Or is it only the people that aren't white-white that you don't want in Ireland? So Western Europeans are okay, but not Eastern Europeans, Asians and black people, right? Please, let me know, so I can get my bags packed otherwise.

BuffyBot

I'm sure multiculturalism is not popular here.

Oh well, if you're sure we might as well pack up and go. You don't have anything to back that claim up with by the way, do you?

People are just afraid to say it. You know it.

If you don't speak up, you don't count and you only have yourself to blame.

I'm up against a bunch of stubborn planks.

Have you met Mr Kettle, Pot? By the way, you're both black.

seamus

Teneka wrote:

Another thing, would it bother you, lets say, in 20 years time if we had a president who was born in China? Or anywhere for that case, just that the Chinese are the most commonly found foreigner on these lands.

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. The wonderful thing about democracy is that a person still has to prove themselves to be voted in. If said person happens to have been born in China, no biggie, he/she still has the support of a majority of my countrypeople.

In fact, I'd like to see that. It would show me that this country has moved beyond pettyness and realised that there's more to a person than the colour of their skin, pronunciation of their words and country they were born in. Any person voted in is a fellow human being, that's sufficient for me.

I still find the "3 meals a day and a weekly wage" comment bizarre. Would you rather they were made come here and sit around in a waiting room for a few months without any source of food while we figure out what to do?
They're not allowed work while their asylum request is evaluated, so we have an obligation of care to provide them with some basic needs while they wait. They get some crappy sheltered accomodation, three square meals, and enough money for a couple of pints a week - assuming they don't need clothes, baby needs, hygiene products. €20 is nothing in this country, barely enough to wipe your arse with.

Beruthiel

Teneka wrote:

Another thing, would it bother you, lets say, in 20 years time if we had a president who was born in China? Or anywhere for that case, just that the Chinese are the most commonly found foreigner on these lands

if in the future we have a Chinese president, it is because we voted them in due to the fact they were the most qualified to do the job - I don't see how anyone can have a problem with that.
There are over 40 million people on this planet of Irish decent in many countries.
How you have the nerve to whinge about a few thousand in our country is beyond belief.
In order for our economy to sustain itself we will need many thousand more to help us out. Get used to it.
Say what you like, you are a racist and the type of Irish person I despise as you make me embarrassed to be Irish.
Us Irish have gained by making ourselves multicultural, the choice and diversity in Dublin city alone attests to this.
I say we continue to take people from other countries and get rid of people like you.
I suggest you move off to one of the Aran islands and set up shop there, probably none of those dirty foreigners living on them

bonkey

1) I'm going to ask most people posting here once - and only once - to pay a bit more attention and respect to the charter.

No more personal attacks.

If you want to say an attitude or argument is - or appears to be - racist, thats fine. Next person calling another poster racist will be banned for a personal attack. Same for calling them planks, etc. And I will not accept generic insults (e.g. something along the lines of "a number of posters here are just idiots") as being anything other than a personal attack on posters.

2) Tenaka - if you're sure that multiculturalism is not popular here, then maybe you could provide some sort of argument to support it? So far it seems to be "no-one says they're unhappy, but I'm sure they are". No offense mate, but thats as solid and logical an argument as saying "no-one will admit that my invisible friend Harvey the 6' Invisible Rabbit is real, but I'm sure he is".

3) I'm appalled (but not terribly surprised) to see a thread with a heading asking about the number of immigrants where the thread-starter then goes on to complain about the treatment which asylum seekers get. If you are aware of the distinction, then you should either ask the question you meant to ask, or stick to the relevant arguments. If you're not aware of the distinction, then you should seriously question the basis on which you formed your opinion rather than blindly insisting that those who disagree with you are just plain wrong.

GuanYin

Teneka wrote:

Believe me, I know of many foreign employees being paid cash in hand - in the different jobs I worked at.

I know loads of Irish people who draw dole while being paid cash in hand. Your point is?

Simply, expenditure on this area is foolish in my eyes. What about the old, the sick, our youth etc? Look at this area closely, you'll see what it needs. They're not getting it.

I think if you knew anything about anything, you'd see that our old and our sick are largely being looked after by these immigrants.

It needs more of them to be honest, cos the health system is lamer than a crippled giraffe thats fallen down a stair.

Another thing, would it bother you, lets say, in 20 years time if we had a president who was born in China? Or anywhere for that case, just that the Chinese are the most commonly found foreigner on these lands.

As pointed out Chinese are nowhere near the "most common foreigner" in this land and what exactly does nationality have to do with being president? Shouldn't political policy be the one that matters here?

By the way, if you want to see where a majority of them spend their money check out Boylesports someday. You'll be surprised.

Can you offer proof or statistics for that? Any time I go to the bookies I see alot of different types of people. Many of them unemployed Irish scammers.

And I did answer the questions asked previously.

No you didn't.

Seriously though, if you kick all the chinese out there will be no more chinese take aways. Is that what you REALLY want?

GuanYin

Dearest Tenaka,

Would it be possible for you to make an effort to convince and convert us all to your enlightened (ermmm.... the Chinese use that term better use something else) - ah... to your superior (much better) ways by perhaps actually answering the questions put to you above.

I'm sure noone will mind if you go back to any "other" forum for direction towards the correct propaganda if you need to consult with your peers for the answers. Noone expects you to know all the answers, after all its very hard to keep track of lots of lies....

BlitzKrieg

sooooo...

you still havnt told me why you hate multiculturalism yet?

fragile

So Tenaka, if we follow your line of thought we should send all the immigrants back to where they came from, then, just to be fair, the 40 million (I don't know the exact figure) people of Irish descent that are scattered world wide should be sent back here. I do know, thats a lot of people for this little island, I don't think we could fit them all in

To answer your origianl question, Yes, I think immigrants play an essential role in our eceonomy and culture, besides I don't want to spend my entire life working in Ireland, I would like to be able to work in some other countries for a while as well.

sceptre

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

According to some on this board, our current President is a foreigner and our 1st President was a foreigner. How do you reconcile that?

(our first president was born in Roscommon - Frenchpark IIRC. They're sort of proud of it up there. Our third (the spanish fly in the irish stew) was born elsewhere but of course there are lots of reasons why the guy wasn't a foreigner, as there are with McAleese)



Like some others, I think I'm missing the core of the argument on one particular side. Mostly because no-one's posted one yet.

billy the squid

Wasnt De Valera an american citezen. isnt that what prevented him being executed in 1916. wasnt he president.

fragile

Dev was the first Taoiseach and went on to become the third President after Seán T. O'Kelly. He was born in New York in 192 to an Irish mother.

Spectre what is the Spanish bit that you are referring to?

Miguel_Sanchez

With absolute no surprise whatsoever I find that our dear friend Teneka has vanished from this thread.

Oh Teneka you adorable little urchin please grace us with your presence again. You still have a lot of unanswered questions and we are empty vessels waiting to be filled with your knowledge.

elivsvonchiaing

I would'nt describe myself as anti multi-culturalism - just as pro segregrationism!

Last Sunday to my horror I found that my local supermarket had no more actimel so I had to buy that Danone rubbish. I gave myself 24 hours before taking the stuff. Last thing I want is a racist war in the inner me! If you even listen to the ads you will understand they are different cultures - bio-defensis and what not.

Not going to risk it- stand segregationist on this one

Otherwise - not calling anyone a racist here - honest! Look forward to Teneka's responses - (not holding breath :rolleyes: )

arcadegame2004

Wasnt De Valera an american citezen. isnt that what prevented him being executed in 1916. wasnt he president.

De Valera's mother was Irish. So he was Irish, under our Citizenship-law. Please stop making our he was a complete foreigner with no links to Ireland. That doesn't persuade me of the case for immigration, and has nothing to do with immigration policy.

Nuttzz wrote:

So long as people come to work we should welcome them, its the spongers that we dont want. If someone applies for asylum they should be given permission to work while their application is been processed. its better haviving them contribute to the state than living off it. This of course begs the question, how can immigrants get jobs yet our so called long term unemployed cant.

I strongly disagree with letting them work. I recently heard Michael McDowell saying ( I am fairly sure it was on RTE Radio 1) that when the Government allowed asylum-seekers to work a few years ago, it led to a huge increase in asylum-seekers. Asylum-seekers generally come to Ireland for economic reasons anyway (look at the countries they come from - hardly outposts of tyranny in over 90% of cases, e.g. Romania, Nigeria, Bulgaria), so if you let them work, you are giving them what they came here for. In doing so, you encourage more to claim asylum in the hope of getting work while bypassing all the work-permit stuff.

I agree with you though on the need to stop sponging by immigrants. I am glad that the Government brought in measures to deter welfare-tourism by denying immigrants access to full social-welfare payouts unless they have lived here for 2 years. I am annoyed by the calls I heard I think today by the International Migration Organisation (or whatever its called) for us to remove these restrictions. They are necessary because our Government needs to plan the countries budget according to projected costs and revenues. This becomes much harder if we encourage mass migration into Ireland.

Am I happy with the number of immigrants in Ireland? If only it would stay at the current % and not get higher, I could live with that. The sad fact is that there is an unholy alliance in this country between the hard-left, who seek in Third World and developing country immigrants a future political constituency to put them in power by promising not to deport them, and a section of Irish business that prefer cheap immigrant labour to the higher wage-demands of Irish workers. Yes there is a minimum wage, but that does not preclude cheap immigrant labour constituting a barrier to wage-increases in this country.

I also have grave concerns about a loss of identity and control of the development of our country along democratic, secular lines. Like it or not, the fact is that many Muslims favour a theocratic form of government. History, together with present-day Iran and virtually all the Arab world are testament to this. If we continue to allow mass migration to Ireland from these countries, then we are going to get the bad as well as the good. In an age of international terrorism, mostly sourced from the Islamic world, we have to be extremely careful about who we let into this country. Recall how the 911 attacks were planned from Germany by Islamofascists, and that Moroccan Islamofascists in Spain committing the March 11th Madrid terrorist attacks. We must deny these Islamofascist terrorists shelter on our soil. We must vigorously reject the abuse of our asylum-system by terrorists who seek to use Western countries as launchpads for the planning of terrorist operations. We have a moral responsibility to do this because the lives of thousands of innocents depend on it. Had some countries been more careful then 911 might not have happened.

I disagree with Tenaka's support for the BNP. I despise the BNP for their violence against immigrants and ethnic-minorities, and because of their anti-semitism. We who favour controls on immigration must not allow our positions to be portrayed as equivalent to fascism and racism. It is in the best interests of the developing world that we help create the conditions that will not entail them exporting their skilled workers to the West as a new brain-drain. Brain-drain's are precisely what the Third World does NOT need, especially with respect to the exodus of nurses from the Phillipines.

We could fill a lot more of our job vacancies in this country if we removed some of the stupid restrictions that help keep down the numbers of qualified doctors and nurses. A recent Prime Time episode should be educational in this regard. Also, with migration from the new EU members, there seems no sense in arguing that this will not suffice to help fill job vacancies that are genuinely unfillable by Irish people.

I am also admittedly very concerned for the impact of mass migration on our culture and political direction. How would foreigners vote in a United Ireland referendum? This should be a decision for the Irish people, and not one where a UI is snatched from our hands by those immigrants who fear getting fewer Irish social-benefits, or whol have no understanding of the NI issue. What about the hard won gains in secularising our country? Having fought hard for gay rights, contraception, and the end of the role of religion in our politics, do we really want to have an Islamic state foisted on us?

Hobbes

Teneka wrote:

Believe me, I know of many foreign employees being paid cash in hand - in the different jobs I worked at.

And you reported them all to the Revenue Commisioners? If not, why not?

Simply, expenditure on this area is foolish in my eyes. What about the old, the sick, our youth etc? Look at this area closely, you'll see what it needs. They're not getting it.

Can you cite proof of this?

By the way, if you want to see where a majority of them spend their money check out Boylesports someday. You'll be surprised.

So they are spending all thier money into an Irish business! Those bastards! :rolleyes:

And I did answer the questions asked previously.

Actually your following the formula to tee.

Frank Grimes

arcadegame2004 wrote:

If we continue to allow mass migration to Ireland from these countries, then we are going to get the bad as well as the good. In an age of international terrorism, mostly sourced from the Islamic world, we have to be extremely careful about who we let into this country.

Back to this one again eh? You never did explain the last time, should we stop all Muslims coming into the country (and kick out any that might be here too) just in case?

Had some countries been more careful then 911 might not have happened.

You mean America right?

We must vigorously reject the abuse of our asylum-system by terrorists who seek to use Western countries as launchpads for the planning of terrorist operations.

When has our asylum system been abused by foreign terrorists?

I am also admittedly very concerned for the impact of mass migration on our culture and political direction. How would foreigners vote in a United Ireland referendum?

I also find it hard to believe that you are suggesting that immigration will somehow screw up a united Ireland, who exactly are you trying to pander to with garbage like that?
If someone is entitled to vote in a referendum here then that's it, how "pure" does your Irishness have to be in your eyes?
Also, Muslims (in general) don't have anything against contraception, so ease up on the scaremongering.

bbbaldy

Well done Arcadegame 2004, Teneka was getting boring, not answering questions and all that.
I agree with abolutely nothing you are saying but at least more effort is involved.

GuanYin

arcadegame2004 wrote:

especially with respect to the exodus of nurses from the Phillipines.

To be fair, what exactly do you know about their medical system that isn't googled from politically inclined websites?

We could fill a lot more of our job vacancies in this country if we removed some of the stupid restrictions that help keep down the numbers of qualified doctors and nurses.

I'm not quite clear as to what you are proposing with this? you want to remove the immigrants training as doctors or nurses in favour of Irish people or just the whole training system scaled up?

A recent Prime Time episode should be educational in this regard. Also, with migration from the new EU members, there seems no sense in arguing that this will not suffice to help fill job vacancies that are genuinely unfillable by Irish people.

Excuse me? What makes you think the newly inducted EU citizens will be any more inclined to work the crappy jobs that Irish people won't work now that they have EU rights here?

I am also admittedly very concerned for the impact of mass migration on our culture and political direction. How would foreigners vote in a United Ireland referendum?

I'm quite sure they would vote in the same manner as every one else. The direction that suits them from a socio-economic point of view. Most Irish people are realists (unless the government and media engage in a mis-information campaign) and if the benefits of industrial sector up north looked to outweight the financial drain maintaining the place would have, I'm sure they'd vote on a united ireland, however I don't think any but he most fiercely republican would vote for a united ireland that effected their economic prospects.

do we really want to have an Islamic state foisted on us?

Wha? huh? *boggle*

Wher ethe hell is this coming from?