Happy with the number of immigrants in Ireland?

Hobbes

Sackville let me the first to ask... wtf are you talking about? Your not even replying to what he is saying.

As for my Chinese student comment. For Teneka..
http://www.hothousemedia.com/statuszone/ltmstatus/ireland00.pdf (PDF)

That survey points out in year 2000 that Chinese made up 21% of the student population from foreigen countries (second only to Spainish).

http://www.hothousemedia.com/etm/etmbackissues/janetm05/janetm05news.htm
This page points out the growth in the number of Chinese students to Ireland. Something like 19% growth from 2003/2004 and 235% growth from 2002.

Granted these are surveys and this is only 5 minutes looking up the details. I will dig out the total number of Chinese in Ireland as well (this is chinese nationals now).

A rough guess from a friend nearby (who is British) said there is roughly around 10,000 British people living in Ireland, of that some would be Chinese looking.

But hey, I did more then you. Now post your facts or STFU.

sceptre

sackville wrote:

If you were to try to average size eggcup with a liter of water and you might get the idea . No danger of the eggcup contents flooding a empty liter container.

When it come sto the developing world Ireland (and in fact even much bigger european countries) are very comparable to the eggcup.

So basically you're saying that "billions" can't physically come anyway?

sackville

Wicknight wrote:

Oh please ... is that the best you got ... what are you taking politcal lessons from the Republicans ... you didn't even do it very well :rolleyes:..

Firstly you pick a small anti-racism group (one who's web page seems to appear to be down BTW .. very clever). Then, by calling them "crypto-anarchist" and saying they are against any form of immigration "as far as you know" you attempt to show them up as extremists (by your definition of what you believe the group is). You then go on to proclaim that this group has a huge following and support from big business (are you serious), by which you are attempting to ligitamise this group as a offical representative of a movement, purely so you can attempt to prove that this group will gain huge following if not stopped. So what you are doing is trying to drag people on this board into defending a group that you have already defined as being anarchists. In essence you are weighting your own question as to be unanswerable without the answer approving of anarchism and open borders.

This is exactly what the Republicans did in the run up to the Iraq war. Attempt to find the smallest most extreme group (i don't even know if the RAR as extreme as you claim). Then attempt to attach this group's views to the much wider anti-war movement, effectively painting them all with the same brush. Then all you have to do is demand that the rest of them defend the extermist views of the small small majority.

Sorry mate, I wasn't born yesterday....

I have no clue what the RAR offical position on immigration is. I have no idea if they believe in completely open borders. I very seriously doubt that they have a large business following on their open borders policy (if it even exists).

What I do know is that I am not a member of the RAR and that no one on this thread has called for open borders yet. When (if) someone does, debate them on it. Don't attempt to sully an argument that hasn't even been put forward yet.

Nobody other than the few brave souls who've dared to express (genuinely held i'm sure) concerns on mass immigration has clarified their exact position on when they think enough is enough ,if at all, what specific type of immigration they favour e.g. skill level, age.

Many 'anti-racists' like fox hunters and hare coursers are attracted to the fold by the smell of cheap jibes and blood. bullies to the last!

Hobbes

sackville wrote:

Nobody other than the few brave souls who've dared to express (genuinely held i'm sure) concerns on mass immigration has clarified their exact position on when they think enough is enough ,if at all, what specific type of immigration they favour e.g. skill level, age.

Expressing an opinion is one thing (and certainly allowed here). Expressing your opinion as fact is not allowed. If you think the majority want something done then post your facts to back this up.

Otherwise we automatically think that your delusional and you don't want people to think that? I mean seriously.. eggcups? :rolleyes:

But Wicknight is correct. You take a radical minority and try to smear the rest of us as being like them. It would be like us taking yourself and Tenaka and smearing those who actually have valid arguments in regards to restricting immigration.

sackville

sceptre wrote:

So basically you're saying that "billions" can't physically come anyway?

Billions can't come primarily for reasons of poverty. One of the most hideous aspects of the systematic abuse of the asylum system is the fact that it is only available to the richer sections of developing countries, who can afford to pay off the people traffikeers to get them to the west. Think of the what ta fraction of the money spend on 'asylum' here by the State could achieve if spent on genuine developmnet projects on the real poor.

Hobbes

sackville wrote:

Billions can't come primarily for reasons of poverty.

Actually he was pointing out the flaw in your argument that Ireland being an eggcup can't hold a litre can of water in it.

I also believe you have no clue about the Asylum system.

sackville

Hobbes wrote:

Expressing an opinion is one thing (and certainly allowed here)..

Otherwise we automatically think that your delusional and you don't want people to think that? I mean seriously.. eggcups? :rolleyes:
QUOTE]
we what you mean there's more than one of you? :rolleyes:
that sounds much more delusional!

sackville

Hobbes wrote:

Actually he was pointing out the flaw in your argument that Ireland being an eggcup can't hold a litre can of water in it.

I also believe you have no clue about the Asylum system.

no but of it can be flooded by only a fraction of the its contents . try it in a lab if you like .

Hobbes

Yes yes yes.. did you find anything to back up your facts yet or are you just spouting out your backside?

While your at it please post your source referring to Asylum seekers and traffikeers.

Come on .. you can do it. Or do you feel the need to just reply with a petty rebuttal.

no but of it can be flooded by only a fraction of the its contents . try it in a lab if you like .

I need a lab to test this? o_O Hello Mc Fly.. Lets assume the egg cup is 3/4 full and we fill it will water until it is full, the rest of the water spills all over the floor. So seeing as the contents of the eggcup is Ireland I can only assume that the remaining water will either be numerous corpses floating in our seas or they go elsewhere.

Btw, that last paragraph isn't an "out" to get you off the hook from posting your sources to your facts as requested.

Meh

Hobbes wrote:

A rough guess from a friend nearby (who is British) said there is roughly around 10,000 British people living in Ireland, of that some would be Chinese looking.

There were 103,476 UK nationals living in Ireland as of 2002. There were 5,842 Chinese nationals. (source).

Immigration from the world outside the EU and USA was 29,900 in 2002, 22,500 in 2003 and 19,700 in 2004 (source). Now, even if every last one of those immigrants was from China, there would still be fewer Chinese than British in this country.

sackville

Hobbes wrote:

Actually he was pointing out the flaw in your argument that Ireland being an eggcup can't hold a litre can of water in it.

I also believe you have no clue about the Asylum system.

My you can thell that from my few posts. what can you tell by the way I dot my 'i's?

Hobbes

sackville wrote:

My you can thell that from my few posts. what can you tell by the way I dot my 'i's?

FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY SACKVILLE PROVE ME WRONG! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG WITH ACTUAL FACTS INSTEAD OF PETTY NAME CALLING IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU?

Come on where are they?

Hobbes

Meh wrote:

There were 103,476 UK nationals living in Ireland as of 2002. There were 5,842 Chinese nationals. (source).

So there are 13,061 students and 5,842 immigrated here. (Backed up with sources Tenaka). That would be a total of 18,903 Chinese.. rough figure but unless you have a source to prove otherwise post it. Lets say 20,000 chinese to keep you happy. That means there are still less then British citizens.

Also that would mean they take up .5% of the population (maybe my maths is off). That is all rough figures but seems to shoot down your argument Teneka. Also proves my assertion that there are more students here (which incidently I orginally heard there were when I was in China two years ago).

Of course we are waiting for your figures to prove us wrong.

sackville

Hobbes wrote:

Yes yes yes.. did you find anything to back up your facts yet or are you just spouting out your backside?

While your at it please post your source referring to Asylum seekers and traffikeers.

Come on .. you can do it. Or do you feel the need to just reply with a petty rebuttal.



I need a lab to test this? o_O Hello Mc Fly.. Lets assume the egg cup is 3/4 full and we fill it will water until it is full, the rest of the water spills all over the floor. So seeing as the contents of the eggcup is Ireland I can only assume that the remaining water will either be numerous corpses floating in our seas or they go elsewhere.

Btw, that last paragraph isn't an "out" to get you off the hook from posting your sources to your facts as requested.

Okay, the anaolgy was as reponse to ilustrate a concept being discussed earlier. It should be seen in that context. The rate of entry, the state of services and infrastructure and economic factors all should of concern. They (services) all have limited ‘carrying capacity ‘ if it were to come even close to overload it would mean that the native people would suffer . The Government has a duty IMO to protect its people ,its people first and foremost, from this happening. I'm definately not the only one who'd think it.That’s really all that’s being said.


What’s obvious is that you belong to the sneering self-appointed elite and your hostility to my posts is more a reflection of your own ideolgical bias that to any real transgression. Your contempt is a reflection contempt the majority of your own people. Don't think they don't realise it!

Zombrex

sackville wrote:

The push-pull factors plus ACTUAL population SIZE difference are some of the major variables ,as well of course economic differences between countries that will determine the likehood of mass migration.

If you were to try to average size eggcup with a liter of water and you might get the idea . No danger of the eggcup contents flooding a empty liter container.

When it come sto the developing world Ireland (and in fact even much bigger european countries) are very comparable to the eggcup.
So yes, now that you ask Ido find anyone who can't acknowledge these concepts as being somewhat logically challenged.

What??

Ireland is an egg cup? ... you are still assuming they will all drop everything and come to Ireland, when it is clear Irish people don't drop everything and go to Sweden or America. During the 80s some Irish people left, but they didn't ALL leave. So I ask you again, why are people in developing countries different? Do Africans have less of an connection to their homeland than Irish people do?

Hobbes

There is no hostility. You have yet to back anything up with facts. It is all personal opinion.

Please cite facts and sources where and when this "overload" will happen? Or cite facts and sources to the previous points I asked for.

Is that so hard for you to do? Or will you yet again reply in the same fashion?

Please using your knowledge point me to the facts/sources to back up your statement

The rate of entry, the state of services and infrastructure and economic factors all should of concern. They (services) all have limited ‘carrying capacity ‘ if it were to come even close to overload it would mean that the native people would suffer .

PLEASE

I wait with baited breath. Stop dancing around what is being asked of you.

Meh

sackville wrote:

Okay, the anaolgy was as reponse to ilustrate a concept being discussed earlier. It should be seen in that context. The rate of entry, the state of services and infrastructure and economic factors all should of concern. They (services) all have limited ‘carrying capacity ‘ if it were to come even close to overload it would mean that the native people would suffer . The Government has a duty IMO to protect its people ,its people first and foremost, from this happening.

So your objections to immigration are based on concerns about overpopulation in this country? Two things:

1. Ireland is one of the world's less-densely populated countries(143 out of 238; source)
2. If you're concerned about overpopulation, should you not be worrying about our high birth rate (highest in the EU) instead?

Teneka

You trying to prove a point with a survey (very questionable one at that) from 4 or 5 years ago and with census figures from 2002?

When will one be realistic about the topic?

Hobbes

Teneka wrote:

You trying to prove a point with a survey (very questionable one at that) from 4 or 5 years ago and with census figures from 2002?

When will one be realistic about the topic?

When you post it. You are going to post it correct? Any figures is better then ones made up.

And incidently I love the typical response. Point out the flaws in my figures but fail to notice that Meh got his from very reliable sources (well until we see yours are more reliable).

Same goes for you.. point out your sources for your argument.

Teneka

point out your sources for your argument

I'll just do what you did by saying that FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, the number of Chinese in Dublin is higher than any other foreigner.

It's impossible to give an exact figure on this sort of thing, as the influx only came to its peak recently. Could you not agree on that even?

Meh

Teneka wrote:

I'll just do what you did by saying that FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, the number of Chinese in Dublin is higher than any other foreigner.

Your experience is wrong, as I have proved with those statistics I linked.

It's impossible to give an exact figure on this sort of thing, as the influx only came to its peak recently. Could you not agree on that even?

No we can't. I've supplied you with detailed immigration figures up until the end of 2004 (that's four weeks ago) and you're complaining that they're out of date?

elvenscout742

Sorry. Double post. Stupid Internet Explorer.

elvenscout742

No, as a matter of fact I am not happy with it. Being the cosmopolitan I am, I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE !

sceptre

Teneka wrote:

I'll just do what you did by saying that FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, the number of Chinese in Dublin is higher than any other foreigner.

Good lord man, you (yes, you) started the thread and that's all you bring to the discussion? That you've noticed a pile of people with slanty eyes on the streets? I hope you're one of those Westerners who has no problem telling the difference between Chinese, Japanese and Koreans (not good enough to reckon that if they haven't got a camera in their hand that they probably aren't Japanese). And that you could pick out one of my co-workers who happens to be from Macau and has Portuguese nationality (and hence doesn't meet even arcadegame's list of undesirables) from that bunch as well as obviously she looks Chinese.

I'm sorry but it's hardly empirical evidence now is it? Dublin isn't over-run with skangers and isn't likely to be soon, despite increasing numbers through assimilation and inter-breeding at breakneck speed, but they're all I notice on a quick trip up Grafton Street.

I notice I've used the word empirical twice this week and it looks like my word of the week. Sorry about that folks

Chong

I whole heartedly disagree.
More whinging how many Irish have and will continue to emigrate of this dull hell hole.
I for one welcome imigrants at least they bring diversity.

sackville

Hobbes wrote:

FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY SACKVILLE PROVE ME WRONG! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG WITH ACTUAL FACTS INSTEAD OF PETTY NAME CALLING IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU?

Come on where are they?

believe me I wanted to name call.......
You seem to ( willfully?)miss the point that the main thrust of my last few posts were based on logic. as for demographic points in due course.

sackville

Meh wrote:

So your objections to immigration are based on concerns about overpopulation in this country? Two things:

1. Ireland is one of the world's less-densely populated countries(143 out of 238; source)
2. If you're concerned about overpopulation, should you not be worrying about our high birth rate (highest in the EU) instead?

You're confusing the concept of overpopulation with the concept of over crowding.

the second point; a small country with a relative high birthrate ha sstill asmall population on a global scale.

pete

Teneka wrote:

I'll just do what you did by saying that FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, the number of Chinese in Dublin is higher than any other foreigner.

Hardly a reliable source.

It's impossible to give an exact figure on this sort of thing, as the influx only came to its peak recently. Could you not agree on that even?

What influx? What peak?

Just add that to my other questions - you can answer them all in one go if you like. Whenever suits yourself.

sackville

Wicknight wrote:

What??

Ireland is an egg cup? ... you are still assuming they will all drop everything and come to Ireland, when it is clear Irish people don't drop everything and go to Sweden or America. During the 80s some Irish people left, but they didn't ALL leave. So I ask you again, why are people in developing countries different? Do Africans have less of an connection to their homeland than Irish people do?

The answers is obviously because many people in the developing world percive the West offering a VASTLY superior quality of life, human rights, political stabilty, life opportunities. etc

Of course not all would if even given the chance actually emigrate to the WEST. But all it takes is a fraction to inundate a small or even medium sized European Country. The faster the rate of entry the capacity of the services to deal with it are what any Government must be concerned with. Bear also in mind that there is a highly organised global network in people traffiking.

Bear in mindtoo that no country is legally bound to allow failed asylum seekers to stay.


It is the sovereign right of every country to decide what aliens to allow live/and/or work there- in fact it is an important aspect of National self-determination.

pete

As an aide memoire to our pal Tenaka

Originally Posted by Teneka
The BNP have the right approach. Thats what I said.

What is this “right approach”?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2304100&postcount=62
if chinese people are born in china, why should the not be allowed to live in another country other than china.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2304105&postcount=64
Is it just Chinese and Africans or do you want rid of Indians, Iranians, Italians, Koreans, Slovakians, Americans and English too?

If there are some nationalities that can stay and others that can't why is this the case in your opinion?

Secondly, do you feel that all IRish people living aborad should be deported back to IReland, seeing as our presence abroad constitutes multiculturalism too.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2305581&postcount=80
you still havnt told me why you hate multiculturalism yet?

Originally Posted by Teneka
Yeah, 2002...Hmm...what, 3 years ago? Yeah nothing has happened in 3 years. Wake up

Again.. If you believe there are more Chinese then British POST YOUR SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

Annnny time at all.

ps Sackville - you can make your own list.