Episode 13 - Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part Two

Sooner or Later

Frackin awesome.

I was so not expecting that ending.

MarkR

Just before the shocker I was wondering why he was congratulating the co-pilot before boomer, them BAM! As for starbuck spotting boomer as a cylon straight off the bat, after being stunned in all out girl on girl fight (no jello - damn ) is a fair achievement. She doesn't suspect a guy she's thought has been left for dead on a radioactive cylon occupied world nearly two months previously? Kinda weird. You'd think she'd at least suspect both of them!

TCamen

She doesn't suspect a guy she's thought has been left for dead on a radioactive cylon occupied world nearly two months previously? Kinda weird. You'd think she'd at least suspect both of them

Yeah I did think Starbuck was a little too accepting that Helo was a human, especially when he defended Boomer as she tried to shoot her.

Stark

I reckon it was wishful thinking on her part. She looked too beat up to question otherwise anyway, she just noticed Boomer because it was so obvious. We never really saw what happened after she recognised Boomer other than her crying, so it's plausible that once she regains her composure she'll start questioning if Helo is a cylon.

Fenster

I think the whole reason behind the bitch fight was Starbuck shagging Baltar-you saw how jealous she was in part 1.

Stark

She was definitely holding back with the catfight. She could have instantly killed Starbuck or at least snapped her bones like breadsticks if she wanted to.

Fenster

That or drawing it out. She seemed to relish toying with Starbuck.

I mean, as Vladimiar Harkonen pointed out in Dune, threre is a fine distinction between killing someone and destroying them.

mordeith

SkyLynx wrote:

I dunno after watching all the ep's the series strikes me as odd more than anything else, it would appear the cyclons have no intensions of attempting to wipe out the human race...possibly looking for earth(god thing) . or they are just bored and wanna play with the human's heads a bit, been plenty of cases where cyclons were able to wipe out all of the humans but didn't....(and then there is the whole thing with boomer back home..)

I reckon with SIX going on about love and God, and with Boomer falling in love with Helo, the cylons are trying to become more human. Maybe they want some humans left alive so they can cross breed. That would result in better cylon/human hybrids than any genetic engineering on the cylons part.

Praetorian

It has been a fantastic series so far. I'm going to pray to the gods for season 2

jor el

savemejebus wrote:

On the subject of cylon transponders, these are designed so that the cylons can tell friend from foe right? so does anyone have any theories on why the cylons placed a transponder in galactica in the opening episode/miniseries.

Could be because whatever the Cylon's plan is, it involves Galactica, or rather the people on baord. So they never wanted to destroy Galactica, just make them think they did. The transponder would let them know where it was, so as to avoid accidentally blowing it to bits.

I though this was a great ending to the season. Leaves so many unanswered questions about who is or isn't a Cylon, what they want, is there really a God or is it just a Cylon programming glitch. I didn't notice the interaction between Boomer and Gaeta, must watch the repeat aswell. He'd be a good choice for a Cylon operative though. In the mini-series, Sic toled Gayus how many Cylon models there were, I think it was 12, but does anyone know if that's right? Maybe it's just 6, and we've seen 4 models in the show so far, there Six, Boomer, the reporter and the guy on Ragnar station.

As for Boomer getting an opertunity to kill Adama, when she was activated on the Basestar, the only way they could return her to Galactica was to allow her to complete her human mission and destroy the basestar. Then once back to Galactica, she'd have plenty of opertunity to complete her Cylon mission. Just happens that Adama called them up to congratulate them, and this was a good an opertunity as any.

Can't wait for another season, and there better be one.

savemejebus

jor el wrote:

Could be because whatever the Cylon's plan is, it involves Galactica, or rather the people on baord. So they never wanted to destroy Galactica, just make them think they did. The transponder would let them know where it was, so as to avoid accidentally blowing it to bits.

I was thinking the same thing, that they may be keeping a small amount of humans alive for (a) breeding stock or (b) to lead them to earth. But then i remembered that the cylons shot nukes at galactica, which seems to be a major attempt to destroy it

Scruff

could be the cylons were shooting nukes at it before they realised that galactica wasnt going to stand and finght but actually was going to make a run for earth. Once they realise that they could have changed their plan so that they let galactica find earth so a) they can destroy us all:eek: or b) <insert more speculation here>


great series though. best scifi in ages.

Private Joker

Ok. correct me if i'm wrong but the cylons seem to have super-human strenght and stamina, so wouldn't the perfect cylon detector be a stress and strenght test any local GP in ireland could tell the difference. And when six was having sex with Gaius in the mini series her spinal column glowed red, surely this isn't a natural sexual reaction

Looked at the series again on sky+ the coms officer didn't hand her anything it was just the way the camera panned. she would of had her own gun anyway

Peace

Private Joker wrote:

her spinal column glowed red, surely this isn't a natural sexual reaction

You mean the birds you shag... their spinal column stays the same color? .... weird...

Private Joker

Peace wrote:

You mean the birds you shag... their spinal column stays the same color? .... weird...

Yeah! but I'm not a great lover of doggy style so maybe??????

Peace

Private Joker wrote:

Yeah! but I'm not a great lover of doggy style so maybe??????

I just can't relate to people like you!!!

The Corinthian

Unlike Christian mythology the Hellenistic is cyclical. That is to say, than history repeats itself and that the ages of man - from the rise of civilisation, through to cultural zenith and self destruction were a repeating pattern. For the ancient Greeks and Romans, history had essentially happened before and would happen again. Sound familiar?

My guess is that the humans of the Twelve Colonies had spent thousands of years to regain the technology that their ancestors on Kobol had achieved. The zenith of this, artificial intelligence, would inevitably result in the destruction of that civilization and the cycle would recommence.

The Cylons are facilitating this cycle and prophecy; largely because they believe that they and humanity will merge with the next revolution of the wheel. Adama threatened this, and so had to be, at least temporarily (don’t be surprised that he survives because miraculously the assassination attempt was not accurate), removed.

Good episode. Fun.

mordeith

Private Joker wrote:

Ok. correct me if i'm wrong but the cylons seem to have super-human strenght and stamina, so wouldn't the perfect cylon detector be a stress and strenght test any local GP in ireland could tell the difference. And when six was having sex with Gaius in the mini series her spinal column glowed red, surely this isn't a natural sexual reaction

Looked at the series again on sky+ the coms officer didn't hand her anything it was just the way the camera panned. she would of had her own gun anyway

I think you'll find that the shot doesn't show the hand of either Gaeta or Boomer. Therefore one can't say for definite whether anything was exhanged or not. Plus Boomer quiet possibly didn't have a gun. She had recently tried to blow her head off so it's reasonable to assume she would have been unarmed as a precaution. Plus if Gaeta didn't hand her anything why show that shot? He had no special relationship with Boomer so why pick her out to congratulate her?
Oh the complexities!

Highlander

mordeith wrote:

I think you'll find that the shot doesn't show the hand of either Gaeta or Boomer. Therefore one can't say for definite whether anything was exhanged or not. Plus Boomer quiet possibly didn't have a gun. She had recently tried to blow her head off so it's reasonable to assume she would have been unarmed as a precaution. Plus if Gaeta didn't hand her anything why show that shot? He had no special relationship with Boomer so why pick her out to congratulate her?
Oh the complexities!

Boomer had only just returned from a mission so would be understandble that she had a side arm already on her!!

savemejebus

yep and she was waving the gun around all through the mission

Private Joker

Gaeta was in the scene to point out to Boomer about Appollo being in handcuffs, I don't think there was any other reason

stevenmu

Haruspex wrote:

Have to disagree with you here - in fact the reverse is true - BSG differentiates itself by producing strong character based drama - space is merely the backdrop within which the characters operate. It would be a far weaker show IMO if it were to be a constant series of space battles which frankly has been done time and again. A few here or there to enhance the plot arc is no bad thing but we would all tire quite quickly of this premise. Moore's reimagining is as far from the comfortable "reset button" Trek universe as you can find.

I'd almost agree with you. The characters are very important, and I love the dark gritty feel to the shows. And it's definitely a good thing that they stayed away from the huggy feely trek universe. I just think more space battles need to be included. In the last episode for example it would have been in line with the story for a few vipers to stage a diversion to help boomers raptor get close to the base star. That whole sequence didn't really add much to the story, we knew she was a cyclon, and she already suspected it, personally I think all that time could have been better spent. And the odd large scale standoff between the galactica and a base star or two throughout the series would have been seriously sweet.

I also feel there should have been more resolved at the end of the series. The second episode of a 2 parter or the end of a series should always tie off most of the loose ends. This was both and instead of tying anything up it just introduced more things that were left unanswered. If for some reason a second series or mini-series wasn't produced it would pretty much ruin the whole of the first series, for me anyway.

savemejebus

in a way the lack of space battles makes sense cos when you look at it they can't really have vipers doing much stuff cos they simply don't have many left, and even i they did have them they have no pilots

Stark

At least the scene with Boomer docking inside the Cylon basestar had more tension that the whole "Hand of god" episode put together.

stevenmu

savemejebus wrote:

in a way the lack of space battles makes sense cos when you look at it they can't really have vipers doing much stuff cos they simply don't have many left, and even i they did have them they have no pilots

That's a point, but presumably they wrote the whole series before they started filming it, or at least had a good idea of what they wanted to do. In that case they could have written it so that they started with a lot of pilots and vipers.

mordeith

I don't think a lot of space battles would necessarily make the show any better or even more exciting. If there were all these battles they would invariably end up being a case of badly outnumbered vipers emerging victorious from a seemingly impossible situation. This has all been done before and would detract a lot from the tension of the series. The lack of major battles is in keeping with the whole mood of the series. Even when we see action from the vipers the sound effects are minimal (which I like). This is one of the best sci-fi series I've seen because it's one which presents a darker side to space travel as opposed to Star Trek and the likes, which make it seem like a walk in the park!
Anyway, that's my two cents.

PS: I take the point about Boomer having the gun on the basetar mission. I guess I got too caught up in the possibilties for treason amongst the Glactica crew.

toiletduck

i wonder are the base stars themselves cylons? when boomer was walking around inside one it reminded me of the inside of the cylon raider

secret_squirrel

ixoy wrote:

As to the Cylons needing humans to procreate - it would seem to be their plan from what Six said, wouldn't it? Boomer's baby, according to Six, is the first of the new generation of God's children and Baltar is their protector.

Im surprised noone else mentioned this - I assumed the crib contained Six's and Gaius' baby - dont forget they were shagging for real on caprica. This leaves things open for a star child x 2 plot where Boomers baby is Good and Sixes is Evil.

It would also suggest that female cylons might be programmed to fall in love with who ever gets them preggers?

It would also explain why the Sixes hate the Boomers.

toiletduck wrote:

i wonder are the base stars themselves cylons? when boomer was walking around inside one it reminded me of the inside of the cylon raider

My thoughts too - there was definately a giant cylon head in one shot and one big object on the ground that had the distinctive cylon red glow.

jhegarty

toiletduck wrote:

i wonder are the base stars themselves cylons? when boomer was walking around inside one it reminded me of the inside of the cylon raider

i would persume they where... seemed to have guts on the floor...

Fanny Cradock

don't know if anyone else has suggested the theory that adama is a cylon :eek: !
it's perfect - shoot but don’t kill and in the process remove any suspicion that existed about his character.

Actually the more I think about it the less likely it seems

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END TRANSMISSION

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savemejebus

secret_squirrel wrote:

Im surprised noone else mentioned this - I assumed the crib contained Six's and Gaius' baby - dont forget they were shagging for real on caprica.

I thought the six's body got trashed shielding baltar from the nuclear blast on caprica

MarkR

savemejebus wrote:

I thought the six's body got trashed shielding baltar from the nuclear blast on caprica

Ditto, that six was killed i'd assumed, consciousness moving on etc? I thought the sprog was a boomer / halo creation...

secret_squirrel

savemejebus wrote:

I thought the six's body got trashed shielding baltar from the nuclear blast on caprica

I dont think there is any evidence of that - ok the last shot we saw of her was shielding baltar - but assuming she is dead just from that is a biggy given the complexities of the BSG plotline.

I think its at least as reasonable to assume that if baltar survived intact then a much tougher cylon would too - either an explosion that close would kill them both - or neither of them imo. BTW do we know that particular explosion was nuclear?

We've also seen plenty of human model cylons wandering around with no need for anti radiation drugs etc....

Fenster

secret_squirrel wrote:

I dont think there is any evidence of that - ok the last shot we saw of her was shielding baltar - but assuming she is dead just from that is a biggy given the complexities of the BSG plotline.

I think its at least as reasonable to assume that if baltar survived intact then a much tougher cylon would too - either an explosion that close would kill them both - or neither of them imo. BTW do we know that particular explosion was nuclear?

We've also seen plenty of human model cylons wandering around with no need for anti radiation drugs etc....

We do know, earlier in the scene a nuke goes off on the other side of the lake that blinds Baltar.

Stark

On the Baltar/Six front, I wonder if Six will leave him human or attempt to make a Cylon out of him. I mean she's completely in love and dependant on him, yet as a human he could be easily killed, especially in the current dangerous climate. I figure they plan on finding Earth too as well, so they'll probably want to make a 13th cylon when that happens.

savemejebus

wonder could they do that? it would certainly add alot to the story.

Actually I still have my doubts as to whether baltar is totally human or another sleeper, I know it seems strange but when you look at it, how else could he have survived a nuclear blast with only a hot cylon chick between him and the shockwave, and what about the chip in his head (thankyou farscape) surely a human would have noticed a scar, scab or some weirdness after undergoing brain surgery. Whereas if he were a cylon then six could just be communicating through the cylon link, WAN or whatever they have

Stark

That's a point. But the cylon sleeper thing has been overdone at this stage imo.

jimsingh

How about this -- the Six that is with Gaius is not a cyclon, but an agent of God that is directing Gaius's behavior. This explains a bunch of things:

1. How six managed to disappear in the episode where she took physical form. If cylons could appear and disappear at will, why plant double agents?
2. Why the six on Caprica wanted to stop/kill starbuck, while the Six with Gaius wants him to help find earth (actually now that I think about she may want to kill Starbuck because Starbuck slept with Gaius.)
3. Why Six never comes out and says "I planted a chip in your head" and instead simply says "well, maybe I planted a chip in your head".
4. How Gaius's hand is magically drawn to the right spot in the episode "Hand of God"

po0k

Far too many cliffhangers and loose ends.
A end-of-season cliffhanger is welcome, but it must also resolve some of the plot-arcs.

This last episode left me unsatisfied to say the least.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

that's because you're a whinging pussy

Stark

1. How six managed to disappear in the episode where she took physical form. If cylons could appear and disappear at will, why plant double agents?

I think it would be easy for her to disappear as most cylons have no fear of death. She could have simply "disposed of the body" in some way as opposed to actually escaping.

4. How Gaius's hand is magically drawn to the right spot in the episode "Hand of God"

Six has a degree of control over Gaius's motor functions even if she doesn't use them often.

The Corinthian

jimsingh wrote:

1. How six managed to disappear in the episode where she took physical form. If cylons could appear and disappear at will, why plant double agents?

Because we don’t actually know if she disappeared at will. Or what they are ultimately up to (and by extension whether double agents would be necessary).

2. Why the six on Caprica wanted to stop/kill starbuck, while the Six with Gaius wants him to help find earth (actually now that I think about she may want to kill Starbuck because Starbuck slept with Gaius.)

There are 12 models of Cylon - that does not mean that there are 12 Cylons. Ultimately, even if they look the same, it does not mean they are the same Cylon.

3. Why Six never comes out and says "I planted a chip in your head" and instead simply says "well, maybe I planted a chip in your head".

She could also reveal the entire Cylon plan and plot for the next two years too, but were would that leave our level of interest if we know it all?

4. How Gaius's hand is magically drawn to the right spot in the episode "Hand of God"

Who says he picked the right spot? It’s evident from Boomer’s successful mission against the base star that the Cylons have no problem sacrificing themselves and allowing the Humans to think they’ve won a battle. For all we know, the spot he picked was random and the Cylons simply self-destructed when it was hit.

monkeyfudge

I thought it was funny when Tigh used the phrase 'Beyond the pale' in referenece to Starbuck disobeying orders.

The saying has it's origins right here in Dublin. The pale was where English law ended just outside Dublin back in medieval times.

I'm surprised that Adama didn't refer to his boxing match from last week as 'quite a Donnybrook'

secret_squirrel

Fenster wrote:

We do know, earlier in the scene a nuke goes off on the other side of the lake that blinds Baltar.

We know there were nukes used on Caprica - We dont know that the one that trashed Baltars house was one. The cylons are plenty sneaky enough to use a conventional bomb if it suited their purposes.

I wonder if we can keep this kind of speculation going until the 2nd Series??


LOL@Monkeyfudge