Rugby for wimps in armour....

Pherekydes

Mweelrea wrote: »

They wear crash helemets!! all a rugby player has is the ocasional scrum cap.

Why do they wear scrumcaps?

If they are going to protect their most valuable asset why do it half-assed?

Maybe you should wear a helmet; it might prevent brain damage, if it's not too late.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

jdivision

The reason for the helmets and most of the padding is because it was mandated by the US government because so many people were being killed playing the sport

davyjose

Oh my God, this thread is pathetic (just spotted it). If anyone doesn't like a game, don't watch it. I don't go around synchronised swimming websites slagging them off.
I'm surprised the Mods even have this - it seems to invite taunts. Any other forum would just lock silly trolls. :eek:

Rented Mule

Without belittling anyone who plays either sport

I think you have to ask yourself one question when it comes to the American football/ Rugby debate.

With the money involved why aren't there more Rugby players going over and trying to cash in ?

Signing bonuses are guarenteed money in the millions of dollar range.

Surely if it were that easy, and the Rugby players are that much better, tougher, athletic then the NFL would be out trying to recruit them to play in the NFL.

The AFL is scouring Croke Park every year for talent.

In the 'money sense' the AFL is 'chump change' compared to the multi-billion dollar industry that is the NFL.

Jay P

Rented Mule wrote: »

Without belittling anyone who plays either sport

I think you have to ask yourself one question when it comes to the American football/ Rugby debate.

With the money involved why aren't there more Rugby players going over and trying to cash in ?

Signing bonuses are guarenteed money in the millions of dollar range.

Surely if it were that easy, and the Rugby players are that much better, tougher, athletic then the NFL would be out trying to recruit them to play in the NFL.

The AFL is scouring Croke Park every year for talent.

In the 'money sense' the AFL is 'chump change' compared to the multi-billion dollar industry that is the NFL.

While I can see where you're coming from, I personally wouldn't play NFL over rugby, rugby is much more action packed and exiting, and I watch american football when I can.

Ronan O Gara had the option to move to Miami Dolphins, anyone else rememeber this, but he decided to stay in Ireland to play rugger. I remember he was offered a ton of money to go over bu he turned it down.

Keano

Last Sunday's Superbowl was the first game I have watched in years and it has really got me interested again. Yes a game takes ages but there a some really big hits and even with protection they have got to hurt from time to time.

The debate will always go on about Rugby being tougher etc but thats just chalk and cheese!

jdivision

Jay P wrote: »

Ronan O Gara had the option to move to Miami Dolphins, anyone else rememeber this, but he decided to stay in Ireland to play rugger. I remember he was offered a ton of money to go over bu he turned it down.

Urban legend. His agent spread it around in an attempt to get him a better contract from IRFU. It's not true.

Lothaar

The main factor in the Rugby vs AF debate is ignorance. Both are good sports in their own right and both are tough and hard-hitting.

Played american football with Rugby players and 3/4's of them couldnt hack it . But still both great sports .

Rented Mule

jdivision wrote: »

The reason for the helmets and most of the padding is because it was mandated by the US government because so many people were being killed playing the sport

The introduction of the helmet cause other injuries along the way, but lowered the amount of head injuries.

Strange catch-22.

Rented Mule

Lothaar wrote: »

The main factor in the Rugby vs AF debate is ignorance. Both are good sports in their own right and both are tough and hard-hitting.

Absolutely.

Although I would have loved to see Barry Sanders play rugby and what he could have done.

Greatest pure runner that I have ever seen play any sport.

Neil3030

davyjose wrote: »

Oh my God, this thread is pathetic (just spotted it). If anyone doesn't like a game, don't watch it. I don't go around synchronised swimming websites slagging them off.
I'm surprised the Mods even have this - it seems to invite taunts. Any other forum would just lock silly trolls. :eek:

I don't have a problem with the behaviour you mention above once it's localised within one (i.e., this) thread and thus not interfering with the more serious discussions on this board.

The introduction of the helmet cause other injuries along the way, but lowered the amount of head injuries.

Strange catch-22.

On the whole armour thing, I heard an interesting point the other day (on Newstalk, I think it was) - when padding was brought into boxing it actually increased the amount of brain damage sustained by boxers, as there was no longer a deterrent to punching people in the face. In the bare-knuckle days, before gloves were brought in, headshots were used sparingly to avoid damage to the hands and wrists, nowadays boxers do not fear these repercussions and punch the face and head at will.

It’s interesting to think that a supposedly protective measure that was brought into the sport has actually made it much more dangerous for participants. Now I’m not for one second suggesting American Football would be safer if there was no padding or helmets, but I suspect part of the reason the IRB were reluctant to loosely administer the wearing of padding in rugby is due to the potential for people to use it as a weapon. Just imagine what players like Jerry Collins or Sebatian Chabal would get up to if they were allowed wear hard plastic shoulder pads.

The fact of the matter is, padding in American football is primarily used as protection from injury, as there are far looser rules regarding tackling as in rugby; but at the same time it brings a host of different dangers into the game, as players have tools to their disposal with which to maximise impact, while at the same time lessening the concern for their own well-being when tackling or blocking a player.

jdivision

This by the way is some of the damage that can be done with pads and helmets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Y9wt3XkHo (illegal hit but he got away with it, receiver was knocked out)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SoDPFhT-u8 (paralysed from neck down, but new procedure helped him regain full movement even if he'll never be the same)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSySFNv9xNE
(eventually recovered)

In the last game I played in one player was brought to hospital with a fractured sternum, another was rushed in that night with a torn spleen. I don't hear of that happening much in rugby.

Chucky the tree

I dont want too turn this into a nasty injury thread, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbvx5DYS6tE&NR=1

I cant believe he even got too his kness, i thought he was gonna try stand up at first.

dc69

any of these football vids can be outdone by rugby ones.Your not wearing pads or HELMETS so your obviously gona get more injured.I was watching a rugby league game the other week and a guy got a shoulder charge headbut strait to the face and his face exploded basically.

you average football player coming out of a game is gona be in much better condition than a rugby player,simple as.Its easier for people trying to proove american football is tougher,as they have access to millions of big hit video,the same cant be said for people trying to argue that rugby is a tougher game.

I have played rugby but never american footbal but I watch a good bit of NFL and I just cant comprehend how it could be tougher.None of them ever fight!Blood never appears!the best injuries in american football are freak ones involving spinal injuries.they happen in rugger aswell,its just harder to find the videos.

tallaghtoutlaws

dc69 wrote: »

any of these football vids can be outdone by rugby ones.Your not wearing pads or HELMETS so your obviously gona get more injured.I was watching a rugby league game the other week and a guy got a shoulder charge headbut strait to the face and his face exploded basically.

you average football player coming out of a game is gona be in much better condition than a rugby player,simple as.Its easier for people trying to proove american football is tougher,as they have access to millions of big hit video,the same cant be said for people trying to argue that rugby is a tougher game.

I have played rugby but never american footbal but I watch a good bit of NFL and I just cant comprehend how it could be tougher.None of them ever fight!Blood never appears!the best injuries in american football are freak ones involving spinal injuries.they happen in rugger aswell,its just harder to find the videos.

To sum up you are going on your own one sided biast view having played one and not the other no? I have played both and honestlyit fooking annoys me the whole argument which sport is tougher.

They are both different sports with different rules.The reason NFL guys wear helmet is because the type of tackling allowed in the NFL would never be allowed in Rugby. But that is not to say that Rugby isnt as tough either. Who gives a flying fook anyway each to their own so lets lock this thread and move on.

DC69 Ireland has an American Football League. I know you watch the NFL but try the game yourself before making judgement you know.

Chucky the tree

dc69 wrote: »

any of these football vids can be outdone by rugby ones.Your not wearing pads or HELMETS so your obviously gona get more injured.I was watching a rugby league game the other week and a guy got a shoulder charge headbut strait to the face and his face exploded basically.
.

A shoulder charge isnt legel though.

dc69

Chucky the tree wrote: »

A shoulder charge isnt legel though.

its completely legal in league.Some horendous injuries occur,it will be banned soon enough.Americans wanted to put helmets on goalkeepers when soccer was first brought to the states.thats says it all.I admire and like both sports but my opinion is that rugby is tougher.Ive never seen blood,fights or anything last season in the NFL that would give reason to people calling it a tougher sport than rugby.

the other reason people will say its harder is becuase af is a minority sport over here,so people who play it will have a chip on their shoulder about it and argue to death that it is harder and more violent sport.A rugby player wil probably take 20 x the amount of hits an american footballer will take every game,stamping is in every ruck,blood occurs a few times a game,puches and the odd broken bone etc

PTG

dc69 wrote: »

its completely legal in league.Some horendous injuries occur,it will be banned soon enough.Americans wanted to put helmets on goalkeepers when soccer was first brought to the states.thats says it all.I admire and like both sports but my opinion is that rugby is tougher.Ive never seen blood,fights or anything last season in the NFL that would give reason to people calling it a tougher sport than rugby.

the other reason people will say its harder is becuase af is a minority sport over here,so people who play it will have a chip on their shoulder about it and argue to death that it is harder and more violent sport.A rugby player wil probably take 20 x the amount of hits an american footballer will take every game,stamping is in every ruck,blood occurs a few times a game,puches and the odd broken bone etc

Like TallaghtOutlaws said, try playing the game before you come along with this crap, Ive had holes ripped in my legs and arms from being stamped on, theres broken bones all over the game, and punches? are you kidding me, try playing on the line in AF for one play and tell me theres no punching, play the game then you get to have the one sided opinion

jdivision

dc69 wrote: »

the other reason people will say its harder is becuase af is a minority sport over here,so people who play it will have a chip on their shoulder about it and argue to death that it is harder and more violent sport.A rugby player wil probably take 20 x the amount of hits an american footballer will take every game,stamping is in every ruck,blood occurs a few times a game,puches and the odd broken bone etc

you know nearly everybody who plays it here has played rugby and just wanted to play something else. One of the current Irish internationals wanted to play for my team a while ago but couldn't because of his contract.

you've no idea how many hits a rugby player takes compared to an american football player if you haven't played it. you think guys don't get punched? Haha, try playing on the line for one game. As for broken bones, numerous players have played in NFL with broken legs. Don't see many rugby players doing that. Do a search for horsecollar tackles and you'll see a few broken bones.

Also I don't remember anyone saying it was a more violent or tougher sport. They just said AF was also violent and tough

as previously stated the last game I played in one guy was taken to hospital with a fracture sternum and another was rushed in later that day with a torn spleen. How many rugby games have you experienced that level of impact? Rugby is extremely tough too but different injuries are more likely.

tallaghtoutlaws

jdivision wrote: »

you know nearly everybody who plays it here has played rugby and just wanted to play something else. One of the current Irish internationals wanted to play for my team a while ago but couldn't because of his contract.

you've no idea how many hits a rugby player takes compared to an american football player if you haven't played it. you think guys don't get punched? Haha, try playing on the line for one game. As for broken bones, numerous players have played in NFL with broken legs. Don't see many rugby players doing that. Do a search for horsecollar tackles and you'll see a few broken bones.

Also I don't remember anyone saying it was a more violent or tougher sport. They just said AF was also violent and tough

as previously stated the last game I played in one guy was taken to hospital with a fracture sternum and another was rushed in later that day with a torn spleen. How many rugby games have you experienced that level of impact? Rugby is extremely tough too but different injuries are more likely.

DC69 I have played AF for 5 years now and have torn my MCL and ACL, Broken Fingers, Have a chipped chin bone, Have torn ligaments in my ankle, been punched in the face and been knocked out twice from two perfect tackles. Guess what position i Play???

I will tell you im a centre. Linemen punch and hold and poke and grab each other in all levels of the sport are you so fricking naive to think there is no dirtiness in AF. Dude Im not saying rugby is a pansys sport I believe you can compare both but you have enraged me as you havent played both sports to make judgement. And we dont have chips dude we have played both sports and are in a position to talk about both. So dude come down to one of the teams practices and join a team then give your opinion. We have two kids in tallaght that both made the Ireland U21 squad for Rugby last season and they wont even compare both sports and they will also tell you both sports are rough so dude get off the imaginary high horse and play both sports then come back with your opinion. Rant over :D

jdivision

Worse injury I've seen in Irish league was a guy having his tibia and fibia broken, kneecap dislocated and tore cartilage and his MCL and ACL. All in the one tackle.

As for me: torn ankle ligaments, torn hand ligaments, broken thumb, broken ribs, two concussions. nothing major really but played on in all cases. Although I did lose about 50 per cent in the range of motion in my thumb afterwards which is a bit of a pain

dc69

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

DC69 I have played AF for 5 years now and have torn my MCL and ACL, Broken Fingers, Have a chipped chin bone, Have torn ligaments in my ankle, been punched in the face and been knocked out twice from two perfect tackles. Guess what position i Play???

I will tell you im a centre. Linemen punch and hold and poke and grab each other in all levels of the sport are you so fricking naive to think there is no dirtiness in AF. Dude Im not saying rugby is a pansys sport I believe you can compare both but you have enraged me as you havent played both sports to make judgement. And we dont have chips dude we have played both sports and are in a position to talk about both. So dude come down to one of the teams practices and join a team then give your opinion. We have two kids in tallaght that both made the Ireland U21 squad for Rugby last season and they wont even compare both sports and they will also tell you both sports are rough so dude get off the imaginary high horse and play both sports then come back with your opinion. Rant over :D

Im not talking about playing it yourself,I doubt the same **** goes on in the NFL as the Irish league.Im talking about comparing the NFL to the Heineken cup and if you compare the 2 rugby is tougher.I have NEVER seen a serious injury,Blood,a fight or stamping in an NFL match and I have watched more than I can count.I dont know where you guys are getting this from.

jdivision

Look, the reality is you don't know cos you don't understand how they feel on a Monday or how I for example will barely be able to get out of bed tomorrow morning. Have a look for Albert Haynesworth Andre Gurode in terms of stamping, Look for Kevin Everett for a serious injury, for blood. in terms of bleeding, it's mainly internal
http://blogs.tampabay.com/bucs/chris_simms/index.html
.Guy today playing for us today - used to play for St Marys firsts - had his kneecap dislocated twice. He thinks they're both tough
I was thinking of what Irish players could play American football at a high level and it'd be hard to pick any because of the speed but of those who might convert would be
Jerry Flannery - fullback
Tony Buckley - guard
Shane Horgan - tight end (who I think could make the NFL)
Jamie Heaslip - defensive end
Denis Leamy - linebacker
Ronan O'Gara - punter

dc69

jdivision wrote: »

Look, the reality is you don't know cos you don't understand how they feel on a Monday or how I for example will barely be able to get out of bed tomorrow morning. Have a look for Albert Haynesworth Andre Gurode in terms of stamping, Look for Kevin Everett for a serious injury, for blood. in terms of bleeding, it's mainly internal
http://blogs.tampabay.com/bucs/chris_simms/index.html
.Guy today playing for us today - used to play for St Marys firsts - had his kneecap dislocated twice. He thinks they're both tough
I was thinking of what Irish players could play American football at a high level and it'd be hard to pick any because of the speed but of those who might convert would be
Jerry Flannery - fullback
Tony Buckley - guard
Shane Horgan - tight end (who I think could make the NFL)
Jamie Heaslip - defensive end
Denis Leamy - linebacker
Ronan O'Gara - punter

Ive played rugby,so i know exactly how they feel waking up in the morning,you will feel like that in every contact sport..I also know guys who quit rugby because they were rubbish and now play football and think there the ****.

obviously a rugby player cant play football,they are different sizes with different characteristics.Look il agree to disagree and say they are both hard sports.Just because only a handfull of Irish rugby players could play,does not mean its a tougher sport.

although ALOT of NFL rejects would make unbelievable rugby players,I cant believe clubs dont scout them.Look at that mcuffie lad i was talking about in another thread,he might not make it but he would be an unbelievable rugby player,could probably play 3 different postions.

uptherebels

PTG wrote: »

Like TallaghtOutlaws said, try playing the game before you come along with this crap, Ive had holes ripped in my legs and arms from being stamped on, theres broken bones all over the game, and punches? are you kidding me, try playing on the line in AF for one play and tell me theres no punching, play the game then you get to have the one sided opinion

but its a bit different getting punched with a helmet on

tallaghtoutlaws

uptherebels wrote: »

but its a bit different getting punched with a helmet on

Eh not its not especially when the hand hitting you is a 300 pound linemen using full force. And I had my nose busted by a fist punching my face cage didnt break but a full force fist hitting the helmet can hurt just as much as as no helmet and anyway when do rugby players ever legally punch each other anyway?? Dude you and DC69 are clutching at straws. Oh and the petty stuff happens in all levels on American Football from Pee wee all the way up to the NFL. TV coverage avoids it though. Ever see linemen with cut noses and lips or even wide receivers and ever ask yourself how the hell their faces are cut and bruised when they are wearing helmets. Or you see linemen or ball carriers slow to get up becuase the tackler or other lineman has taken a cheap shot.

Simple fact both sports are tough and for the Naivity of some to think that just because NFL or any football players wear pads their bodies dont suffer damage just google a show called sports science and see if you can find the test they did on the affect of a full force tackle even with pads. Seriously American Football players are Pussies because they wear pads move for fook sake or play the sport.

jdivision

uptherebels wrote: »

but its a bit different getting punched with a helmet on

In fairness that'd be a bit thick, yanking a guy's facemask though can cause serious muscular damage to the neck. Punches to the balls and guts happen all the time. If i'm playing defensive tackle I'll punch the centre's arm each play so that eventually he'll get a dead arm and mess up the snap.

BizzyC

DC69, dont knock it till you've tried it.

I played rugby for 10 years before I converted to football.
It had nothing to do with my own level of skill etc, I started every rugby game in that time for which I was available, but I found football more fun, simple as that.

They are two very different sports that put different demands on the body.
To compare their toughness through injuries is pointless.
Although you may see more broken legs etc in rugby, you'll see more internal injuries and trauma done in football.

There's a reason why the average NFL career is only 5-7 years.