NCT, Points, Metric speed limit? Helpful?

TomF

I just made an NCT Test booking for my car, and naturally being annoyed at the whole thing, decided to ventilate here.

The idea of the National Car Test, and of Penalty Points is to make the roads of Ireland safer. From what I read in the papers and hear on the radio and TV news, the roads are actually more dangerous than before these safety measures were introduced. Now we see 80 kph speed limit signs going-up on roads that need mowing, never mind slower speed limits.

What in the world is in the minds of our legislators, our roads authorities and our guardians of the peace? Are they just going through the motions to make the EU happy? Is it all just a scheme to keep the € rolling-in. I really feel disgusted with this @#$%^ country.

ambro25

TomF wrote:

I just made an NCT Test booking for my car, and naturally being annoyed at the whole thing, decided to ventilate here.

Does not compute. Why be annoyed?

TomF wrote:

The idea of the National Car Test, and of Penalty Points is to make the roads of Ireland safer.

The idea behind NCT, and the reality of the implementation, is to ensure that 15 years-old rustbuckets held together with velcro and prayers stay off the road and don't end up relying on my ruinously-well-maintained pride & joy to stop them at junctions. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

Penalty Points - OK, it's not really working. But what do you suggest? Heavier & heavier fines and harsher & harsher examples made of law-brakers perchance?

TomF wrote:

From what I read in the papers and hear on the radio and TV news, the roads are actually more dangerous than before these safety measures were introduced.

Nothing to do with NCT & Points, perhaps something to do with letting increasing amounts of people loose on public roads year-on-year with no actual requirements for formal training prior to the fact.

TomF wrote:

Now we see 80 kph speed limit signs going-up on roads that need mowing, never mind slower speed limits.

Comical, but not really a factor for increased danger, is it? Are you going to drive your shiny new, Non-All-Terrain Honda at 80kph on a road that need mowing? Me neither...

TomF wrote:

What in the world is in the minds of our legislators, our roads authorities and our guardians of the peace?

Now THERE is an interesting question. What is the actual motivation behind going metric in respect of speed signals & notices? That I'd like to know very much.

TomF wrote:

Are they just going through the motions to make the EU happy?

Yo, check.

TomF wrote:

Is it all just a scheme to keep the € rolling-in.

Yup, check that one too.

TomF wrote:

I really feel disgusted with this @#$%^ country.

Don't be - it's the same ol' song throughout the EU - I should now, I've tried 4 countries so far

lomb

ambro25 wrote:

Penalty Points - OK, it's not really working. But what do you suggest? Heavier & heavier fines and harsher & harsher examples made of law-brakers perchance?

good idea, then the cops can go after the young houligans and make an example of them

which would u rather a cop catching minor speeders doing 60kmph safely on the nass road or dealing with drug peddlers, armed robbers, house burglers, customs and excise fraud, etc etc etc etc. there are only limited resources at any one time and it makes sense to catch real bad guys

edmund_f

think i am going to have to go with the training one, giving the cops more powers, so they can abuse them even more, does not sound productive. They will not make an example of anyone, they will just get their numbers as quickly as possible and with the least amount of effort as they usually do.

(note, whenever a cop talks about law enforcement, they are very quick to come up with number of detections, but very slow to give the % increase in road deaths)

basic forklift drivers (no offence intended, random example) have more training than a lot of people on Irish roads today

Eventually it will be realised that giving out points is not saving lives, and as expensive and time consuming as it is, you will actually have to teach people how to drive.

cheapthrills

Penalty points, Metric speed limits(drastic reduction in urban speed limits prior to this) and all traffic calming (ramps etc.).

These have all been landed on the motorist in an effort to make our roads safer. Yet the death toll remains the same and it takes longer and longer to get to work in the morning.

Also i feel that i am in more danger on the roads than ever before, peoples driving has become erratic, they seem to be concentrating on the regulations and penaltys rather than on the road ahead of them and the drivers around them.

oh yes, and we are paying an ever increasing price to travel less distance in more time.


P.S. If you receive a penalty points fine for speeding in the post. Do not pay it.

TomF

I really don't think the condition of the car makes a lot of difference to the safety of Irish roads or the death, maiming and damage rates. I think it is strictly a matter of the mad driving and complete disregard of the rules of the road that is endemic to this country. The only way this is going to change is for our guardians of the peace to actually police the roads. I for one have never seen a Gardai on the Headford Road in Galway, even though there is a barracks near Corrandulla.

Continuing to rave: the new km/h speed limits on the Headford Road going north out of Galway are truly odd. They go from 50 km/h to 100 km/h, and then for some unknown reason small 50 km/h signs appear high-up on wooden utility poles, and then just before a dangerous intersection of roads followed by "Slow" then "Slower" signs announcing a dangerous bend, is a large 100 km/h sign. That is followed by a downhill stretch marked "Do not overtake" with a solid paint stripe because there is another dangerous intersection at the bottom of the hill, and this, naturally, is the favourite overtaking stretch of motorists heading north.

It is bizarre, perhaps in the extreme.

stratos

How about don't n.c.t. your car.
you don't need it to tax or insure your car.
As far as I know in Irish law the n.c.t. has some problems. If anyone knows more abut this I would love to know. Anyway the police don't care about it. Obviously I would never advise such things.

TomF

Hmmm.

cheapthrills

stratos wrote:

How about don't n.c.t. your car.
you don't need it to tax or insure your car.

on tax & insurance, the media/government bangs on about the number of road deaths, but does anyone know whether the number of accidents of all kinds has
a. gone up
b. gone down
c. remained the same
since all the road nazis took over.

if it has gone down, as you would expect it to. then presumably the cost to the exchequer and insurance companies of clearing up the mess has gone down. why then am i still paying so much in insurance and road taxes of all kinds?

when you next pay your annual car tax, think of it as a downpayment on your petrol, tolls and fines for the next year.
i pay car tax, which then gives me the right to be subjected to further taxes/tolls etc. is that legal?

i dont mind paying money for petrol, which makes my car go but why should i have to pay a tax to use the roads which were built with my taxes?

TomF

I am intrigued by the idea of just ignoring the NCT and motoring-on while keeping up the liability insurance and the tax. The letter NCT sends out says this:

"Please be aware that if your vehicle is due and has not yet passed the NCT:
1. You could attract a penalty of up to €1,500. Enforcement is the responsibility of the Garda Siochana, who have access to our records.

2. In the event of an accident, under your motor insurance policy, your failure to hold a NCT Certificate could well be a factor in dealing with the claim."

As we all know, the second sentence of point number 1 could well be a factor in causing the reader to hurt himself/herself by falling-down laughing, so it can be discounted. Point number 2 is another matter because I'd say insurers will look for any way out of paying a claim. If you kept careful maintenance records and looked after your car, they might not try too hard to refuse to pay a claim.

I recently heard of a driver who had not kept his NCT certificate up-to-date, and was motoring on a highway when he saw a Garda checkpoint ahead. Thinking quickly, he turned around and headed back a mile or two then consulted a map and navigated a route around the checkpoint and was soon back on the highway and had no further worry with Garda enforcement ("Garda enforcement": hee, hee, hee, gasp, choke, wheeze, sigh). Actually, this was the second time this (to remain nameless) driver had done this kind of thing, and he has reportedly done it with both of his cars. For shame.

ambro25

cheapthrills wrote:

if (the number of accidents of all kinds) has gone down, as you would expect it to. then presumably the cost to the exchequer and insurance companies of clearing up the mess has gone down. why then am i still paying so much in insurance and road taxes of all kinds?

Because you may consider that insurance IS a tax, since it is compulsory by law. Therefore, its cost behaviour mirrors a 'genuine' tax levied by public authorities: Have you ever seen a tax reduced? Anywhere?

Me neither. It's the old communicating vases principle, horses for courses, etc. : why get the punters in the habit of reducing payments, when they're already 'alright' with the current level of taxation? (by 'alright' I mean 'paying it' - perhaps moaningly, but still...)

cheapthrills wrote:

I dont mind paying money for petrol, which makes my car go but why should i have to pay a tax to use the roads which were built with my taxes?

Because -bearing in mind my rather cynical (but Oh-so true?) take on tax, insurance & motoring above- you have to consider the total cost of motoring to you and contrast it with the total revenue of motoring
to the government (who, incidentally, is levying a tax on insurance contracts? Don't know for sure, but they do in the UK and France, so I can't imagine ole IE gvt would pass on this nice earner as well ).

Still - to get back on track - all for NCT. At least, the notional dangerous Irish driver is less dangerous in a well maintained car (that may brake / hold the road / etc.) than a poorly-maintaned one...

Andrew Duffy

ambro25 wrote:

Have you ever seen a tax reduced? Anywhere?

Yes - income tax was steadily reduced during the 1990s.

ambro25

ROFL - Don't tell me you actually believed that one? Give me a break, here!

So Income Tax was reduced? Well, which other taxes were hiked / created / re-badged? Are you paying more or less for petrol / fags / booze / VAT / duties / Road Tax / VRT? (those are the usual culprits that spring to mind immediately, I am certain that umpteen more, very obscure ones exist, which have either been created/amended/etc. such that the overall level of taxation does not decrease - which, incidentally, was my point, to be sure).

Andrew Duffy

Ignoring for the moment that you have redefined the question after posing it, of course prices have increased - inflation affects everything you buy. Although the total tax take as a proportion of you income has dropped steadily since the early 1980s, the total amount you pay will have risen due to inflation and your wages increasing. This is largely a side effect of the economic growth that was created as a direct result of that progessive taxation scheme.

ambro25

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Ignoring for the moment that you have redefined the question after posing it

Not so - my initial question was allegorical, and I simply can't believe (given the debate & tone of the posts herein) that anybody would be daft enough to take the question litterally.

Particularly since it's been western governments' favourite game of the last 30-odd years, to dial some back here / add some more there tax-wise, and balance the books on the up year-on-year.

But then there's always one 'anybody', isn't there?

Andrew Duffy wrote:

of course prices have increased - inflation affects everything you buy. Although the total tax take as a proportion of you income has dropped steadily since the early 1980s, the total amount you pay will have risen due to inflation and your wages increasing. This is largely a side effect of the economic growth that was created as a direct result of that progessive taxation scheme.

_In full consideration of inflationary effects (with which I am quite familiar, thank you all the same), and
_notwithstanding the fact that I'm very tempted to request matehmatical proof of this (but won't because this is a Forum, not Macro-Economics 101 at DCU or wherever),
>I have been paying Income Tax (and a whole host of other taxes, as a consumer, property owner and/or tenant) for over 20 years in a variety of EU countries and have yet to factually witness this tax proportion 'dropping' as you self-servingly allege.