Man United V Chelsea 2nd leg (will contain scores)

dirkey_wynne

fade2black wrote:

I think you answered your own question there buddy. And don't question my loyalty to my team, everyone has opinions and their right to them. Would you like me to list the mistakes Fergie has been making because I gladly will.

Do. Then point me a manager who hasn't made mistakes. Then point me who built a side which has won 3 top flight titles back to back, managed by the same manager. Who was won every domestic honour in England, and 2 European trophies. We are 3rd in the league. We came 3rd last year. We are in the 2nd round of the CL. We are still in the FA Cup. So Utd don't come first and you think Fergie should go? I really think that's mind boggling. Perhaps he has made many mistakes -i'm always moanin about his 4-5-1. But would you please remember his many triumphs. Then tell me which outweigh the other. Oh, and by the way, point me a treble (proper treble) winning manager.

eirebhoy

Chucky the tree wrote:

also, for the goal, howard had to stay back as he was unsure if the attack who was marked by rio was going to win it.

I'm not sure but I think he could of got in there ahead of him.

smemon

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Yes, he made a good save earlier in the game. But what is the point if you're going todo that? Yes, it was the kind of ball anyone could have touched- but not if he had done what Cech for example would have done at the other end - come and met the ball as it came in, at a high point and fisted it away. Watch it again. He had no traffic to get through.

oh yes, come of his line and leave himself open to a seaman/ronaldinho. the ball was in-swinging, at an angle, with players preparing to flood the 6 yard box. ok so maybe he should have come straight away as the free was delivered but perhaps he though it was going to be dealt with by the defence.

it was sort of pumped in, it wasnt fizzed in, meaning the defence should have had time to adjust to the flight of the ball to clear it. notice how 2 chelsea players were left unmarked around about the back post, signs the defence wasnt switched on.

as a keeper you dont leave your goalline unless your 100% confident you can connect with the ball. perhaps the height of the ball through him off as he would have had to climb above a few bodies, risking spilling it when he falls back to the ground. look at schmeichael against barca in the 3-3 (from a throw in) if i remember, he came out climbed over bodies and made contact, only to mis-hit it to leave barca with a tap in. for me, if you stay on your line you always have a chance of saving, if you leave it, you risk it and THEN you are to blame.

eirebhoy

smemon wrote:

oh yes, come of his line and leave himself open to a seaman/ronaldinho.

he could have came out at the last second. Maybe the slow motion makes it seem that way though.

threebeards

Chucky the tree wrote:

makelele sent off, for kicking thin air? come on.

Just because he didn't connect doesn't make it any better. The intent was there - he should have gone.

Iago

Considering this was posted by someone who "can't get worked up about this game" I'm not sure why I'm bothering, but hey I'm a glutton for punishment.

PHB wrote:

Memory of a gipsey fly
Ronaldo for teh last 5 games, has been passing the ball.
He only doesn't pass the ball when he doesn't believe that the people he passes to are going to score, and today he was pretty much right in most cases imo.

Ronaldo only passes when he absolutely positively cannot have any opportunity to throw his leg over the ball or shoot from an impossible angle. Check his stats over the last 2 months and you'll see how wrong you are. What were his stats tonight, how many shots? how many on target? and out of those how many times would the better option have been a pass??

The last league game before the FA Cup replay with exeter (team escapes me) Ronaldo had 10 shots, none on target. At some point he's going to have to realise that those other lads in the same colour jersey as him are on the same team.

I think he's one of the most exciting talents to come out of United or anywhere else in the last 10 years, but he needs to start playing a team game, he's not doing it now.

Theres one guy, can't quite remember his name, he is dutch or something. However injuries happen, and thats the way it goes.
Are Gudjohnson or Drogba top 10-15 in the world?

Van Nistlerooy, although seen as you don't seem that bothered about United results or watching matches properly it's hardly surprising you've forgotten. No Gudjohnson or Drogba aren't in the top 10-15 but then I never mentioned United signing them, so what's your point?

Maybe, hes won about a billion premierships, I think he knows what he is doing.

Not quite a billion, and I think you'll find that my point was that he didn't use that formation in the premiership up until the last two years. So maybe that would explain why we won them all. If he knows what he's doing then why change to something that failed to work in Europe for 8 years. Yes I know we won the EC but that was down to playing with a 4-4-2 formation. Look again at the game against Juventus in the semis to see my point.

It was a definite penalty in the first half, makelele should have been sent off, Bridge made an exceptional clearance off the line and Cech made a fantastic save in the last couple of minutes. All of these things would have led to United winning, but at the end of the day we just weren't good enough, our squad isn't good enough and Ferguson has to shoulder the blame for that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, flawed conclusion.

Nothing flawed about it. The squad isn't good enough and we weren't good enough on the day, had we been good enough we'd of won. Ferguson has to shoulder the blame because he picks the team and the formation and the tactics.

Players there that are good enough for United:
Fletcher
Saha(definally)
Phil Neville, who was arguably one of the best players in the champions leaguye 99 final, so don't slate him please with your short memory.
Show me a mistake he has made in the last 3 years? G'wan, show me.
I would like to have
Ronaldinho Duff Robben Frey
but we don't, whats your point?

You're joking right? One game in 10 years and he's a saviour? In fairness he played brilliantly against Arsenal last year as well, didn't win the league though did we? They're not good enough and if you think they are then you're sadly mistaken..

For Fletcher read, Robson, Keane, Cantona, Beckham...same class?? Very doubtful

For Saha read Van Nistlerooy, Rooney, Solsjkear, Sheringham..doesn't come close.

For Phil Neville read, Albiston, Moses, McGrath, Moran, Pallister, Bruce, Irwin, Henize, he's not fit to lace their boots

Fortune, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Miller, Fletcher, Phil Neville, Howard, Carroll, Ricardo, Richardson

Would all get places in most of the premiership sides.

Ferguson has been touting Kleberson and Djemba Djemba around for months nobody is willing to pay even half of what United paid for them. Being good enough for other premiership sides doesn't mean they're good enough for United. We should be aiming higher than that. with the exception of Arsenal, Chelsea and a lesser extent Liverpool, every other team in the premiership is aiming to finish 5th at best in the premiership, should United drop their ambitions to that as well?

How many of the above players would get into any of the top 4-5 teams above? None, even Liverpool with all their problems with keep their own squad in preference.

And as for getting worked up for a game, I get worked up if Utd's reserves are playing their U21 team in a closed doors friendly. Maybe if you took more pride and interest in the team you wouldn't be as blinkered as you seem to be

Aquos76

Stekelly wrote:

Leonard wrote:

Fergie blamed the defenders and NOT the keeper.

He also sadi that ronaldo had his best game of the season against villa, so whats your point. Either hes been absolutely ****e all season or ferguson is talking him up in public. He is the only person that saw the match that said ronaldo played well

I just pointed out what he said. I blamed the keeper if you care to read back over the thread. I agree with you about Ronaldo, he has to learn to pass the ball. And with regard to Fergie's comments about him,this is why I also posted why I felt that Fergie should step aside at the end of this season.

Thanx 4 The Fish

wheres me jumpa wrote:

as for utd, we desperately need ruud back.

Second united fan in this thread to mention the missing Ruud. Surely not overdependence on a single player there is it ? United were beaten tonight by a better team, looks like that psychological blow that Fergie was attempting to strike has missed. This will hit United hard, chances of any other silverware this season are going to be hard to come by.

BTW, good post IAGO, nice to see that not all Man U Fans wear those odd red specs.

fade2black

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Do. Then point me a manager who hasn't made mistakes. Then point me who built a side which has won 3 top flight titles back to back, managed by the same manager. Who was won every domestic honour in England, and 2 European trophies. We are 3rd in the league. We came 3rd last year. We are in the 2nd round of the CL. We are still in the FA Cup. So Utd don't come first and you think Fergie should go? I really think that's mind boggling. Perhaps he has made many mistakes -i'm always moanin about his 4-5-1. But would you please remember his many triumphs. Then tell me which outweigh the other. Oh, and by the way, point me a treble (proper treble) winning manager.

Alex Ferguson, since United won the F.A. Cup in 1990 has done an excellent job, nobody can argue with that. Firstly, I think in the past 4/5 years he has made some, shall I say, unusual moves in the transfer market. The likes of Bellion, Djemba Djemba, Diego Forlan, selling Beckham, selling Staam..there are more but I have other points to make for now. After 1999 the team seemed too fall apart, not replacing Schmeichel adequately, and also missing out on a lot of top players. Ferguson used to be monumental in bringing players to Old Trafford but he let players like Robben and Ronaldhino(The weather was probably a factor also here though) through the net.
Also, I think I'm right in saying that this "rotational" system was brought in by Alex Ferguson and it is some what of a modern phenomenen. How many times have we looked at United playing teams like Bolton and Boro in the league -teams that United invarioubly struggle against - and we see that Ferguson has rested a bunch of players. Of course new talent has to come into the team but he sometimes forgets that there are no teams in the Premiership that are walkovers.
When he was thinking about leaving a couple of seasons back Roy Keane said that it would be for the best and that a new manager coming in would make other players less complacant like they obviously are now (Silvestre must chuckle himself to sleep every night thinking about how he still manages to get a game) and would be a new challenge for everyone. Man United are slipping behind and it is because nothing is improving and deterioration will follow if something is not done soon.

dirkey_wynne

fade2black wrote:

Alex Ferguson, since United won the F.A. Cup in 1990 has done an excellent job, nobody can argue with that. Firstly, I think in the past 4/5 years he has made some, shall I say, unusual moves in the transfer market. The likes of Bellion, Djemba Djemba, Diego Forlan, selling Beckham, selling Staam..there are more but I have other points to make for now. After 1999 the team seemed too fall apart, not replacing Schmeichel adequately, and also missing out on a lot of top players. Ferguson used to be monumental in bringing players to Old Trafford but he let players like Robben and Ronaldhino(The weather was probably a factor also here though) through the net.
Also, I think I'm right in saying that this "rotational" system was brought in by Alex Ferguson and it is some what of a modern phenomenen. How many times have we looked at United playing teams like Bolton and Boro in the league -teams that United invarioubly struggle against - and we see that Ferguson has rested a bunch of players. Of course new talent has to come into the team but he sometimes forgets that there are no teams in the Premiership that are walkovers.
When he was thinking about leaving a couple of seasons back Roy Keane said that it would be for the best and that a new manager coming in would make other players less complacant like they obviously are now (Silvestre must chuckle himself to sleep every night thinking about how he still manages to get a game) and would be a new challenge for everyone. Man United are slipping behind and it is because nothing is improving and deterioration will follow if something is not done soon.

YOu laugh at Silv, and personally I think he's a liability and was brutal tonight, but at the same time he is part of a defence that went 8 games w/o conceding a goal. INcluding playing Liverpool and Chelsea in this run. Yes, Fergie has made some bad decisions, but this is going to be the first season we go two years in a row w/o winning the league since the Premiership formed! Give him a break. Can his standards not suffer the slightest dip - ie 1st - 3rd? Surely all he's done for the club, we should support him now? I for one will. I won't call for his head.

fade2black

I will praise the man for all that he has done and I do think he still has a lot to give, just not as much as I feel Jose is giving Chelsea etc.....A manager cannot stay on because of past glories.
Silvestre is a liability, simply because he is too inconsistent. He can pop in with a great tackle here, but give away the ball 5 times for each one...he might pop up and score a goal but get caught out by the man he should be marking 50 times for each one.

Chucky the tree

threebeards wrote:

Just because he didn't connect doesn't make it any better. The intent was there - he should have gone.

so if a player goes to tackle someone but he misses by a 10 feet, it should still be a foul since the intent was there?!

PHB

Considering this was posted by someone who "can't get worked up about this game" I'm not sure why I'm bothering, but hey I'm a glutton for punishment.

Yeah, still don't care about the game, its the league cup, its almost irrelevent.

---

Ronaldo only passes when he absolutely positively cannot have any opportunity to throw his leg over the ball or shoot from an impossible angle. Check his stats over the last 2 months and you'll see how wrong you are. What were his stats tonight, how many shots? how many on target? and out of those how many times would the better option have been a pass??

I agree, he didn't have the best start to the season.
Over the last couple of matchs however he has begun passing and playing it around.
Well, he had three shots tonight as I remember.
One he dragged wide
One he nearly scored
Can't quite remember what happened with the other one
He lost the ball twice on a dribble, he however got past his player 5 times, got the cross in 3 times. The other two times, he got a corner/free.
wasn't a great game, I agree, wasn't a bad game.
He's coming along great if you ask me.

---

Van Nistlerooy, although seen as you don't seem that bothered about United results or watching matches properly it's hardly surprising you've forgotten. No Gudjohnson or Drogba aren't in the top 10-15 but then I never mentioned United signing them, so what's your point?

Because you seem to think that you need top 10-15 players in every position to succedd.
Yet chelsea are succedding, but without top10-15 players?
That would be my point

----

Not quite a billion, and I think you'll find that my point was that he didn't use that formation in the premiership up until the last two years. So maybe that would explain why we won them all. If he knows what he's doing then why change to something that failed to work in Europe for 8 years. Yes I know we won the EC but that was down to playing with a 4-4-2 formation. Look again at the game against Juventus in the semis to see my point.

I find it amazing, absolutley positivly amazing, that in the last thirtheengames, we've won 10, drawn 2, and lost tonight, with this formation, and somehow its a **** formation.
Its quite amazing really, the players must be amazing or somethign to compensate for teh ****ness of the formation.

---

Nothing flawed about it. The squad isn't good enough and we weren't good enough on the day, had we been good enough we'd of won. Ferguson has to shoulder the blame because he picks the team and the formation and the tactics.

I agree, we weren't good enough of the day, and we lost.
If out squad had been better we would have won?
I'm a bit confused there. Who would you have played elsewhere if Van Nist was there? You can't have two Van Nists cause one wont want to sit on the bench.
Please explain to me what it is you want?
You think Fergie doesn't accept the blame? Have you ever ever ever seen him say, jesus that ref ****ed us over, or jesus we were fouled out of the game, nope, he just gets on with it.

---

For Fletcher read, Robson, Keane, Cantona, Beckham...same class?? Very doubtful

Robson, where was he at 21?
Keane, where was he at 21?
Cantona?
Beckham, didn't get to real dominacne till around 23/24

For Saha read Van Nistlerooy, Rooney, Solsjkear, Sheringham..doesn't come close.

How many times, in total, have you seen Saha play?
How many times, in total, has he had a run of over 2 months in Utd?
Every single time he has played with Van Nist, very few oddly enough, they have looked like forming a great striker partnership.

For Phil Neville read, Albiston, Moses, McGrath, Moran, Pallister, Bruce, Irwin, Henize, he's not fit to lace their boots

No he isn't, but he is a solid versitle squad player, who I'm fairly sure any premiership team would like to have in their ranks, because he fills in the gap when required.

---

Ferguson has been touting Kleberson and Djemba Djemba around for months nobody is willing to pay even half of what United paid for them. Being good enough for other premiership sides doesn't mean they're good enough for United. We should be aiming higher than that. with the exception of Arsenal, Chelsea and a lesser extent Liverpool, every other team in the premiership is aiming to finish 5th at best in the premiership, should United drop their ambitions to that as well?

Logical conclusion there, lets look at your causality.

PHB says:
Would all get places in most of the premiership sides.
You say:
Being good enough for other premiership sides doesn't mean they're good enough for United.

Apparently this are mutually exclusive, as you can see they are not.
Infact you're not even tradicting me at all.
Then you go on to somehow assume that i said something like this
United should accept these players and become a mid table side
You say:
Should United drop their ambitions to that as well?
However I didn't say that

---

And as for getting worked up for a game, I get worked up if Utd's reserves are playing their U21 team in a closed doors friendly. Maybe if you took more pride and interest in the team you wouldn't be as blinkered as you seem to be

I like that, its cute.
I like to watch the under 14's play, does that make me more dedicated than you?
Grow up

I'm fairly sure my pride and interest is fairly good in Utd, ask about
Because I don't think the league cup is importent, means that I couldn't really care less.

I wish Fergie had played the kids tbh, the really young ones, like Rossi and Pique and co.
Couldn't care less if we win it or lose it, and I didn't think it would have a huge effect on Chelseas premiershiip run so I couldn't care less.
When United made a comeback, I thought if we won it might give Chelsea a blow in the premiership, much worse than just losing 1-0 initally.
However when we lost, I realised once again why I don't like the league cup, especially playing it with good players.

But if it makes you feel better, you're a real united fan, i'm a fairweather fan, you the man, I'm the duck, you the cool dedicated man who can see clearly, i'm the horse being led about by the lease of Fergies propaganda machine.

Get over yourself

Iago

Cristano Ronaldo ~ Season Stats

Goals: 2
Shots on goal: 35
Shots/goal: 35.00
Minutes per goal: 800mins
Avg goals/game: 0.10
Pens taken/scored: 0/0
Last goal: 87mins

Appearances: 21
Minutes on pitch: 1600
Subs. (on/off): 4/7
Assists: 2
Caught offside: 23
Crosses: 80

So he's played 1,600 minutes in 21 games, scored 2 goals from 35 shots and made 2 goals, been caught offside 23 times, and crossed at least 78 balls that weren't scored from...

compared with Duff at Chelsea..

Played 1,566 minutes in 20 games, scored 6 goals from 14 shots, made 3 goals, been caught offside 7 times, and crossed at least 53 balls that weren't scored from

or even Pires at Arsenal..

Played 1,600 minutes in 22 games, scored 10 goals from 23 shots, made 2 goals, been caught offside 2 times, and crossed at least 9 balls that weren't scored from

who would you rather have in your side?

fade2black

Chucky the tree wrote:

so if a player goes to tackle someone but he misses by a 10 feet, it should still be a foul since the intent was there?!

On one hand I of course agree with you..but don't they say if you raise your fists to an opponent..bang..you're off straight away. Are they differentiating between a good fist in the jaw and a good kick in the ar se?

talla

Have to agree with most of Iago posts, i thought Ronaldo was terrible tonight, the amount of times i saw Gary neville in acres of space after making an overlap and Ronaldo ignored him was disgraceful, fair enough it wasn't a direct scoring position, but it was better than the position that Ronaldo was in 90% of the time. Don't agree that Chelsea deserved their win, i thought there was nothing between the teams apart from a goal keeping error. In those type of situations, the keeper should come for the ball, and should not care about any players between him and the ball(opposition or team mates), just go straight through the players and fist it out. As for Makele, should have been a straigh red, intent was there, no one can deny if it had of been Keane or Viera that took a swipe at a player like that, they would have been sent off straigh away. I agree about the peno incident, i thought Fortune had lost control of the ball, if anything tecnically he was obstructed from getting the ball, so it should have been an indirect free kick.

PHB

Duff, without a doubt in hell.

However,
I'm gona make this really clear to you, cause you can't seem to get it.

Ronaldos form this season:

Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Bad
Better
Better
Good
Excellent
Goodish

However what you've done is average them all out to make them look bad.
Form is getting better

Ronaldo in 6 years = Ronaldinho
thats what I see,
thats what most pundits see
thats what alex fergusion sees
However what you see is,
BAD!

Iago

PHB wrote:

Yeah, still don't care about the game, its the league cup, its almost irrelevent.

He's coming along great if you ask me.

I disagree with both but that's your opinion and perogative. Every competition is important, admittedly some less so than others.

Ronaldo could be one of the greatest ever United players, but at the moment he's just frustrating and wasting chances.

Because you seem to think that you need top 10-15 players in every position to succedd.
Yet chelsea are succedding, but without top10-15 players?
That would be my point

I don't think you need the top 10-15 players for every position, I'm saying that United should be looking for those players. Whatever about Fletcher, Neville et al coming through the ranks we shouldn't be buying the likes of Forlan or Djemba Djemba

I find it amazing, absolutley positivly amazing, that in the last thirtheengames, we've won 10, drawn 2, and lost tonight, with this formation, and somehow its a **** formation.
Its quite amazing really, the players must be amazing or somethign to compensate for teh ****ness of the formation.

Just because we are playing in a league where once you get past the top 4 teams the quality is rubbish doesn't mean that we're playing well and a formation is brilliant.
Fulham, Crystal Palace, Bolton, Aston Villa, Middlesborough, Spurs, Exeter...

not exactly world beaters are they?

But if it makes you feel better, you're a real united fan, i'm a fairweather fan, you the man, I'm the duck, you the cool dedicated man who can see clearly, i'm the horse being led about by the lease of Fergies propaganda machine.

Get over yourself

Couldn't be bothered with quoting the rest, maybe I was a bit harsh with my assesment of your loyalties sorry about that. It's just so frustrating to go out of a competition when we are capable of far more and should be aiming far higher...

Anyway it's over now, hopefully we'll get the result on Saturday and then beat the gooners on Tuesday. I still think we need to change the formation and some of the players though

Chucky the tree

fade2black wrote:

On one hand I of course agree with you..but don't they say if you raise your fists to an opponent..bang..you're off straight away. Are they differentiating between a good fist in the jaw and a good kick in the ar se?

it should be ref's decision i feel with common sense

if he was send off for that i would of felt it was harsh, no one should be send off for that. its was heat of the moment, i think he just swung his leg, with no real intent to hit him.

but if someone swings a dig at someone, and the only reason he doesnt connect his because the other persons ducks, then he should be send off.

its one of those you cant really make a rule, andj ust have to let the ref use his discretion. i think the ref tonight was right in not sending him off.

eirebhoy

Iago wrote:

So he's played 1,600 minutes in 21 games, scored 2 goals from 35 shots and made 2 goals, been caught offside 23 times, and crossed at least 78 balls that weren't scored from...

compared with Duff at Chelsea..

Played 1,566 minutes in 20 games, scored 6 goals from 14 shots, made 3 goals, been caught offside 7 times, and crossed at least 53 balls that weren't scored from.

Duff has 5 league assists this season and Ronaldo has 3.

yop

Sickening way to lose it, would blame both defenders and howard, defenders where was Mikey silvestre or G Neville following the ball in, Ferdinand could have been said to have been pushed but to me he was way too weak and should have got to the ball.,
Howard was not good either, not 100% at fault but really made no great effort to get to it, caught in no mans land badly

Chelsea absorbed the pressure and really played us the way we have played teams for 10 years.
Could have been a penalty, seen them given for less, Makellele again very lucky to stay on the pitch, would have certainly changed the game.

The biggest factors for me were Ronaldo, if there was a possibility of going into the TV and strangling him I would, must have counted 5 or 6 times he had the chance to play it simply or spread it wide, lack of experience, I hope that is the case because if it is not he should be out on his arse.
Second was tactics, we got it wrong, why oh why are we playing with 1 man up front, Giggs or Scholes are NOT forwards, this formation may have work once out of ten times. Rooney should have been on from the start, given Chelsea something to think about

On another night we would have got a penalty, Mickey Silvestres header would have gone it etc etc etc, but they shaded it, was a cracking game with 2 teams who play football, sure we are missing RVN but then it's time for the other strikers to stand up to plate and prove they deserve to wear the jersey, this year it ain't going to happen.

Horsefumbler

Chelsea looking pretty strong atm. the pool will have to raise there game to beat them in the final.

yop

"the pool will have to raise there game to beat them in the final"

I think raising their game will not even touch them, not unless half of the chelsea squd get injured that pool will not get a look in. Way to much talent for pool to handle

Chucky the tree

sure they only narrowly beat us at anfield.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Only a bad decision that lost liverpool the game at anfield. Amn united did not play to their own strengths tonight and lost the game, if Liverpool close them down fast as they did in the last game and actually get a striker on the pitch, then I can see it being a tough game for Chelsea.

jesus_thats_gre

yop wrote:

I think raising their game will not even touch them, not unless half of the chelsea squd get injured that pool will not get a look in. Way to much talent for pool to handle

You are slightly obsessed with talking ****e about Liverpool aren't you..

Liverpool only played Chelsea a few weeks ago and played a fully strength Chelsea side off the pitch..

WhiteWashMan

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

You are slightly obsessed with talking ****e about Liverpool aren't you..

Liverpool only played Chelsea a few weeks ago and played a fully strength Chelsea side off the pitch..

and still lost.

spurs played a full strength utd team a few weeks ago and wo... sorry, drew.

whats your point.

jesus, can you actually read anything on a bulklitan board without getting incensed over off the cuff remarks.
do you think maybe you need some anger management?

personally, i think chelsea were the better team, deserve to win, and will probably win the final as well. pool will only come close if gerrard plays magic. if he doesnt, well, we've seen how liverpool have become a one player team this year. if he doesnt perform, the team doesnt.


no team fears liverpool anymore

Villain

I said it here earlier, Chelsea to win easy in the Final. Gerrard FC will be no match for them.

cournioni

I won't say the best team went through last night, because from what I could see they weren't the best team. Two defensive mistakes cost United and that was United's own fault. Best of luck to Chelsea in the final.

The Rooster

What Liverpool did very well against Chelsea was they nullified the threat of Duff and Robben. Neither got a kick really - although its hard to say whether they just had a bad day or the Liverpool defenders had the measure of them. Certainly the same will have to happen again in the final for Liverpool to have any chance.

I thought Chelsea just shaded it last night - bar the last 5 minutes they looked to me the team with the best cutting edge. Though if one of United's late efforts had hit the net, it would not have been undeserved.

I think you'd have to blame the whole United defence for the winner. Why did Silvestre let Gallas get away from him? Who was marking Tiago? Where they trying to play offside and just badly misjudge it as a unit?

Funny seeing Howard two yards behind the line when Duff's effort went it. Has there been a secret memo from officials to the Utd keepers to ignore the goal line and concentrate on an imaginery line two yards deeper ? :eek:

The Muppet

WhiteWashMan wrote:

jesus, can you actually read anything on a bulklitan board without getting incensed over off the cuff remarks.
do you think maybe you need some anger management?

Ahh give him a break, he has a lot to be angry about. He's a Liverpool supporter,


Back on topic. I was disappointed we lost Chelseas because of the phsycology involved if we could have won. Howard could have done better for the second goal but we have seen Carrol make worse mistakes . The defenders were also at fault as none of them attacked the ball.

I,m with Dirky Wynnes on the Fergie Debate. He's the most sucessful Manager
the League has ever seen . He has built two great United teams and has the makings of a third in place. For me Fergie decides when he goes.

Ronaldo is very frustrating to watch and he definitely needs to improve his final ball but he has shown signs of improvment in the last few games. I'm confident that with the right coaching and some more experience his decision making will improve and he will be a great player for United in the seasons ahead.

Villain

Pornapster, I believe the better team did go through, you say the difference was two defensive mistakes, well you see thats why Chelsea were the better team, they didn't allow United to break them down. Chelsea have the best Defensive unit in England without a doubt, I mean just look at United's keepers, Carroll and Howard hardly inspire confidence, I can't understand why United haven't bought a keeper, and Silvestre is always going to make a few mistakes.

WhiteWashMan

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I won't say the best team went through last night, because from what I could see they weren't the best team. Two defensive mistakes cost United and that was United's own fault. Best of luck to Chelsea in the final.

doesnt that mean that chelsea didnt make any defensive mistakes, and so were a better team?
you really arent even trying to make sense these days. quit your trolling and move on please.

TwoShedsJackson

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I won't say the best team went through last night, because from what I could see they weren't the best team.

Hahaha, keep clinging to that dream... :rolleyes:

yop

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

You are slightly obsessed with talking ****e about Liverpool aren't you..

Liverpool only played Chelsea a few weeks ago and played a fully strength Chelsea side off the pitch..

:rolleyes: Ya ya ya, I am ya alright :rolleyes:
Not to go but pool were well beaten in that match, as they were against United, humilated by Burnley and outclassed by Southampton.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

jesus, can you actually read anything on a bulklitan board without getting incensed over off the cuff remarks.
do you think maybe you need some anger management?

Don't like to hear the truth some pool supporters.
In fairness if we supported a "European Great" stuck in mid table I too would be angry.
Anyway back on topic.

Chelsea deserved to go through over the 2 legs, United fupped up too many times, Chelsea didn't.
They took their chances we didn't, 'fraid this is what wins you matches.
Best of luck to them in the final. Will be their first trophy of a possible 4.

Iago

incidentally the Duff goal was a freekick given for obstruction.

Obstruction is an indirect free kick isn't it...who did the ball touch on the way in?

Anyway, best of luck to Chelsea and Liverpool in the final, maybe the lack of decisions for United last night will stop the constant jibes about us having all the referees in our pocket

eirebhoy

Pat Nevin: (BBC Radio 5) "I'm not being xenophobic here now or anything but it was great to see three British players on the scoresheet, Lampard, Giggs and Duff."

The Rooster

I thought "obstruction" had been done away with, and that the offence is now called "impeding an opponent" which is a direct free kick.

Other than offside, its rare to see indirect free kicks these days.

wheres me jumpa

but had duff been sent off he most certainly be irish!

yop

"but had duff been sent off he most certainly be irish!"

Are you on the beer there wheres me jumpa ??

PHB

I'm fairly sure its a direct free kick for getting in the way of a player.
I think the only relevenace of whether he has control of not, is to do with whether he gets a yellow or red card.
I'[m fairly sure he can't get a red card if he doesn't have control.

Either way:
Some things from the game

Robben is **** against good teams at this stage in life
Duff is the threat
Lampard scored and made one tackle, otherwise he was ****, didn't desrve mom.
Chelsea defence can be pressure, as you saw united do at the end, and they are vulnerable to mistakes, just like every other team.
Hopefully every premiership eam will have been watching the match and said, hey I can beat them! Thats all you need for chelsea to start losing points
Unitd are gona be pissed off going to arsenal, so we're gona kill em

Rooney wasn't played because Fergie doesn't want to have to rely on him,m,, cause hes a kid.
Ronaldo should be rested cause hes a kid, and shouldnt be relied on.

zAbbo

Well it was fun to watch the queue of scum fans walk out of the pub with heads low, mumbling about random injustice.

And now for the Finale, Pool v Chelsea.....

WhiteWashMan

PHB wrote:

Lampard scored and made one tackle, otherwise he was ****, didn't desrve mom..

i still cant understand why there are about 4 people on these baords that comtinually say that lampard is rubbish, yet he keeps winning games, keeps scoring goals, does a lot of running in midfield, gives a lot of support and is a good passer of the ball.

id certainly have him in my team. im not so sure that it isnt misplaced angst against the british media, but as far as i can see, lampard is a fantastic player.
hell, hes probably scored more goals than the utd forwards, or the entire liverpool team at this stage.

cournioni

irish1 wrote:

Pornapster, I believe the better team did go through, you say the difference was two defensive mistakes, well you see thats why Chelsea were the better team, they didn't allow United to break them down. Chelsea have the best Defensive unit in England without a doubt, I mean just look at United's keepers, Carroll and Howard hardly inspire confidence, I can't understand why United haven't bought a keeper, and Silvestre is always going to make a few mistakes.

United's general play was better than Chelsea's in the course of the match. United should have had two penaltys over the two legs, they should be put down as defensive mistakes by Chelsea that weren't punished by the referee. So I disagree with your comment about Chelsea having the best defensive united in England. Recent form shows that United are equally as good as Chelsea defensively.

cournioni

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

Hahaha, keep clinging to that dream... :rolleyes:

The dream that Newcastle might actually win something some day... Nah I think I'll let that go.

Villain

Blah, Villa scored against ye lol.

Both of those penalty shouts were weak, I certianly didn't think the one last night was penalty. United supporters are just used to getting them, thats all

But seriously I mean look at the 5 players in United defence including the Keeper and the 5 in Chelsea's I think Chelsea have a much stronger unit. Chelsea's 2nd choice keeper would walk into their team, as where Carroll or Howard would find it hard to get a place in mid table teams.

Why don't they buy a keeper??

_blank_

What 'keeper is there to buy?

Villain

Given said he might leave a while ago, Van Der Sar was apparently open to offers, Carson??.

I personally would go for Niemi.

_blank_

But the question is, are they available.

van der Sar is a no go in my opinion, too old.

Carson just signed for the scousers.

Given would be expensive, but worth it, and would be my preferred choice. Maybe Fergie could get Keabo to do some tapping up? :eek:

cournioni

irish1 wrote:

Blah, Villa scored against ye lol.

Both of those penalty shouts were weak, I certianly didn't think the one last night was penalty. United supporters are just used to getting them, thats all

But seriously I mean look at the 5 players in United defence including the Keeper and the 5 in Chelsea's I think Chelsea have a much stronger unit. Chelsea's 2nd choice keeper would walk into their team, as where Carroll or Howard would find it hard to get a place in mid table teams.

Why don't they buy a keeper??

Well Ray Wilkins, George Graham and Andy Gray thought it was a penalty... I don't think it was that weak of a shout.

Statistics tell their own story, since Rio has come back United have been just as good as Chelsea defensively. You cannot go on how Carroll or Howard look in goals, it must be a statistic. In the premiership United have conceeded 14, Chelsea 8. Out of those 14 United have conceeded 8 goals with Rio playing. Surely that tells its own story.