Classic insurance - companies & brokers

pachanco

jozi wrote: »

I was onto them before about insuring my E30 touring. I've done a lot of work and made some additions that I want declared, wheels, rare spoiler, rare seats, mtec kit and engine conversion being the main things. They wouldn't go near me was told I 'don't fit their client type' or something like that.

So if you have any mods, don't declare them (no chance of risking this personally) or try else where.

I know I'm going to have trouble insuring my touring, what I don't get is that there are many others driving around with engine conversions, nice wheels and coil overs, how did they do it?

My car is bog standard as it was sent out of the factory, so don't have to worry about that side of things. I'd say a lot of people don't declare mods etc., that's all grand until you need to put in a claim, hope you find someone to cover your car.

jozi

I'm hoping they will look after me when I finish the touring.

The impression I got was that I'm labeled boy racer based on a few mods. Nothing could be further from the truth

pachanco

Silvera wrote: »

I took out my policy with Autoline.

Fully Comp, 3000 miles p.a. (2 x cars, 3.0 and 1.9) = €245

This includes 'salvage buy back' (important if you want to rebuild or use parts from your classic in the event that it sustains serious damage / or is written off) and 'agreed value'. I couldnt get both of these 'extras' with any other company I tried. Autoline are also seriously easy to deal with - very pleasant and helpful...a lot of stuff can be sorted via email.

Are your cars nct'd, how did the agreed value work. Just my car is 1979 so currently nct exempt, would they be looking for an engineers report for getting agreed value on the policy.

Also the salvage buy back sounds good. My car has big sentimental value to me as it was my deceased uncle who bought it new back in 1979.

Do all insurance companies not have to offer you to keep the car if you buy it back off them in the event of a right off?

pachanco

Got FBD to send me the Vintage motor policy document (Private cars and commercial vehicle types)

Limitations as to use
Our standard policy covers you for social,domestic and pleasure purposes (this is deemed to include show and display). Always check your certificate of insurance to see what level of use is covered under your policy.

So perhaps they have updated their policy or maybe the policy was misinterpreted in previous discussions I have seen on FBD's classic insurance policy.

Previous discussions
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055711157&page=2
This is very interesting. I tried FBD to insure my 1971 Merc as a daily driver and they toldme there was no way they would do it. Use would be limited to "going to shows". I haven't tried through IVS though. Do you think it owuld make a difference?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85167817
Thanks guys, was just a bit paranoid after the thing years ago where FBD insured classics - but only for driving to and from classic shows. Took a while for people to cop on.

pachanco

Contacted Autoline Insuance up the north

Cover is through Allianz

They ask a lot of questions,a lot more than anyone else, even asked how much I payed for the car when I bought it. Also asked a lot of questions about the condition of the car inside and out. I think the choices were poor,average,good and excellent. I went for good on both exterior and interior.

You don't have to be a member of a car club but if you are you get 10% off the prices quoted below. Preferably the club connected with the car,but then she said or else a local club.

My car is 1979, so it is nct exempt, they do not require an engineers report, even though they offer agreed value as standard.

Not sure how this would work in practice if you actually put in a claim,seems like it could be open to abuse from lads overvaluing their cars, but I guess the higher the value of the car, the higher the premium.

They were only offering me Fully comprehensive insurance as a choice.

MGB Roadster 1800 cc, Value €6000.

Comprehensive

1500 miles : €228
3000 miles : €260
5000 miles : €325.90

pachanco

Contacted Campions Insurance broker

Insurance through FBD

MGB Roadster 1800 cc : Value €6000

As my car is a Roadster (convertible) they will only insure third party only. They didn't ask the value.

Membership of a classic car club is mandatory. They can offer membership through themselves to IVETA for €25.

Third party only
No breakdown or windscreen cover

5000 miles : €125

Interestingly the cover includes open driving for all drivers 25-71 years of age with three or less penalty points and no claims or convictions etc.

My car is 1979 and nct exempt, because there are no modifications, no engineers report is required.

pachanco

Contacted Carole Nash

Insurance is with Ageas (I'd never heard of them, apparently they are Ireland and UK based)

MGB Roadster 1800 cc : Value €6000

I have two sets of quotes. The first are quotes he gave me are before I told him the cheapest quote I had already. He tried to get me to tell him this at the start of the quotation process,which I refused to do.

You don't have to be a member of a car club,but I think you may get discounts if you look at their website if you are a member.

Third party only

2000 miles : €314.23
4000 miles : €335.29

Comprehensive

2000 miles : €361.78
4000 miles : €387.38

After I told him the cheapest quote I had so far was €150 third party only. They have a "Price Beater" policy in place. (He contacted the underwriter/put me on hold for 30 seconds)

Comprehensive (or third party only)

2000 miles : €198.14
4000 miles : €208.14

They do agreed value. The way this works is that, you fill out a valuation form and send in four photos of the car. Then if they agree with the valuation it is accepted or else if it has been overvalued by owner it is negotiated in line with what other similar cars are being advertised for/valued at.

My car is 1979 and nct exempt, they do not require an engineers report.

pachanco

pachanco wrote: »

Contacted Autoline Insuance up the north

Cover is through Allianz

They ask a lot of questions,a lot more than anyone else, even asked how much I payed for the car when I bought it. Also asked a lot of questions about the condition of the car inside and out. I think the choices were poor,average,good and excellent. I went for good on both exterior and interior.

You don't have to be a member of a car club but if you are you get 10% off the prices quoted below. Preferably the club connected with the car,but then she said or else a local club.

My car is 1979, so it is nct exempt, they do not require an engineers report, even though they offer agreed value as standard.

Not sure how this would work in practice if you actually put in a claim,seems like it could be open to abuse from lads overvaluing their cars, but I guess the higher the value of the car, the higher the premium.

They were only offering me Fully comprehensive insurance as a choice.

MGB Roadster 1800 cc, Value €6000.

Comprehensive

1500 miles : €228
3000 miles : €260
5000 miles : €325.90

Just had an email from Autoline with some updated prices. I guess it is not just classic car owners who frequent this particular thread. A nice discount on the original quotes.

Comprehensive
1500 miles : €175
3000 miles : €198
5000 miles : €225

Decisions,decisions,decisions!

Also just to update for valuation purposes they require six photographs, one from all sides of the vehicle and one photograph of the interior and one photograph of the engine.

Has anybody gone through this valuation process before with Autoline or another company,how did it work out for your,did they accept your valuation?

pryantcc

Thanks for taking the trouble to post up your experiences pachanco. It's very helpful.

Toyotafanboi

Excuse my sense of optimism and maybe this whole post is sacrilege, but, some of you may have seen my MR2 post in the main motoring forum.

What i'm wondering is, is there a snowballs chance in hell of insuring this on some sort of classic policy?

The MR2 is 97 and a Japanese import which means it's too old and dangerous for a conventional policy, apparently.

I'm 26, 9 years NCB and have another daily vehicle.

Is it true that Japanese cars point blanc can't be classic in the eyes of insurers or is a 97 simply too fresh?

Would like some genuine advice if anyone has insured something similar. It'd be a nice car for weekend spins.

pachanco

No bother, I really think it's worth sharing, helps everybody get a better deal. I suppose the more we phone around at renewal time the better. You can find the deal that suits you best. Amazing how much companies will knock off the original quote, if they're told you're going elsewhere for you insurance needs.

Glad I took the time to phone around, although at this stage I'm starting to get sick of answering the same questions over and over again, especially when they're asking you the "Have you got any penalty points, accidents claims or convictions, health issues etc. and you're just answering no,no, no, over and over again. I suppose I'm lucky that I can still answer no to all of those questions.

Lets all try and keep the sharing going, and keep everyone informed of any good (or bad) deals going, try and shake the Irish insurance market up a bit, so we can all get the best deal going.

pachanco

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Excuse my sense of optimism and maybe this whole post is sacrilege, but, some of you may have seen my MR2 post in the main motoring forum.

What i'm wondering is, is there a snowballs chance in hell of insuring this on some sort of classic policy?

The MR2 is 97 and a Japanese import which means it's too old and dangerous for a conventional policy, apparently.

I'm 26, 9 years NCB and have another daily vehicle.

Is it true that Japanese cars point blanc can't be classic in the eyes of insurers or is a 97 simply too fresh?

Would like some genuine advice if anyone has insured something similar. It'd be a nice car for weekend spins.

First off I've never insured such a car. I would give Campions Insurance in Portlaoise a call, I don't want to get you're hopes up but I'd be fairly sure they could sort you out with some kind of insurance on your MR2. Come back and let us know how you get on. Type "campions classic insurance" in to google and there are a few other links from "toyota" sites that come up, that mention campions too.

Here is a pdf link with more details about age of car and rates etc.

http://www.iveta.ie/forms/IVETA%20Campion%20Insurance%20Rates.pdf

Silvera

pachanco wrote: »

Are your cars nct'd, how did the agreed value work. Just my car is 1979 so currently nct exempt, would they be looking for an engineers report for getting agreed value on the policy.

Also the salvage buy back sounds good. My car has big sentimental value to me as it was my deceased uncle who bought it new back in 1979.

Do all insurance companies not have to offer you to keep the car if you buy it back off them in the event of a right off?

The 3.0 is booked-in for it's NCT (it's first since I recently imported it) and the 1.9 is NCT-exempt.

To my knowledge, unless you have 'salvage buy back', the insurance company will keep the car and sell it on to a salvage company.

What made me seek this out for my classic was due to reading a letter (sent into a UK classic car mag) about an owners experience of his classic being seriously damaged in a crash and he not being able to retain/buy back the car for a rebuild or for parts. He even searched for and located the salvage company who had his/the car - but they wouldnt sell it back to him as they said they would get more by selling the parts from the car than selling him the complete car!

It made me think! It would be frustrating enough for your classic to be involved in an accident ...but imagine spending all that time getting your classic just how you wanted it - including locating rare parts - only to be told 'NO' you cant keep the salvage (i.e. for a rebuild or to salvage parts)?!

pachanco

Thanks for the update Silvera, it's a very good point that you make. I just would have thought that customers, should be allowed to retain ownership of their car, provided they pay the same rate for it out of the claim, as the salvage company is prepared to pay.

My brother in law was able to buy back his car after a "write off accident", wasn't really beyond the point of repair, but I guess the difference is that his car was an Opel Astra and not an e type jaguar.

I wonder what kind of money salvage companies pay for these classic right offs?, I suppose the insurance companies have to keep them on side, because for every classic car owner that wants to retain ownership of their classic, no matter what it's condition, there are probably 10 others who will just let it go and spend the claim money on another classic car.

Also SilveraAs you have been through the valuation process with Autoline, would you mind sharing your experience of dealing with them? Was their much backwards and forwards between you agreeing on the value of your two classics or did they just go along with your valuations? Any complicated questions on the valuation form?

pachanco

Also does anybody have the policy documents from Autoline or another insurer who offer salvage buy back as part of their insurance that could explain the detail of how the salvage buy back works in practice.

I can understand how it works if you are at fault in an accident and the claim is going through your insurer, but what if some one crashes in to you and it is their fault, surely you would be dealing with the other persons insurance company and if your car is written off, would it not be at their discretion as to whether they let you buy it off them?

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole point of comprehensive insurance. Perhaps all insurance companies have an agreement in place between themselves. Can anyone enlighten me?

cplwhisper

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Excuse my sense of optimism and maybe this whole post is sacrilege, but, some of you may have seen my MR2 post in the main motoring forum.

What i'm wondering is, is there a snowballs chance in hell of insuring this on some sort of classic policy?

The MR2 is 97 and a Japanese import which means it's too old and dangerous for a conventional policy, apparently.

I'm 26, 9 years NCB and have another daily vehicle.

Is it true that Japanese cars point blanc can't be classic in the eyes of insurers or is a 97 simply too fresh?

Would like some genuine advice if anyone has insured something similar. It'd be a nice car for weekend spins.

It's a no no for AXA as Jap Mr2 go.

unfortunately prior clients were big on highly modifying and not declaring same thus resulted in to many cancellation cases !!
or stupidly track racing or acting up at Rally's and plastering Their trophy photos all over social media.

Toyotafanboi

Didn't think MR2's were a rally wreckers favourite, or at least not to the same extent as is200/ ae86 etc.

Just enquired on the Irish owners club and two owners, one of a 91 UK non turbo and another of a 92 Jap turbo are insured with Autoline for €200 & €350 respectively so hopefully the 97 doesn't inpact too negatively on mine.

Agricola

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Didn't think MR2's were a rally wreckers favourite, or at least not to the same extent as is200/ ae86 etc.

Just enquired on the Irish owners club and two owners, one of a 91 UK non turbo and another of a 92 Jap turbo are insured with Autoline for €200 & €350 respectively so hopefully the 97 doesn't inpact too negatively on mine.

I was going to suggest Autoline too because the woman I was speaking to there who sorted my policy basically told me they arent too strict on makes/models as long as you have another daily driver and the classic is 20 years old or more.

Other insurers point blank wouldn't consider a 91 unmodified Japanese car I was inquiring about, simply because of the reputation of them. I don't think you'll have that trouble with Autoline, your only stumbling block may be it's 19 years old!

pachanco

Came across this article while searching classic car insurance.

http://www.irishvintagescene.ie/barrett-private-insurances/

So I decided to give Barrett insurance brokers in Dunlaoghaire a call. They deal with a uk based insurer Chubb insurance.
If you read though the "magazine article" / advertisement, they offer some unusual additional benefits.

MGB roadster Value: €6000

So anyway he took all my details and said he would phone me back because he had to get in touch with Chubb. Anyway he came back to me just now to let me know that unfortunately he cannot quote me because of the value of my car.

They are now only insuring classic cars with a value of 20,000 euro. This can be one car or a group of classic cars. They only offer comprehensive insurance.

When I was giving him information for the quote he asked what mileage I would do and I said about 1000 miles this year. He then went on to tell me there was no mileage limit.

So before I ended the call I asked him for a ball park quote if I had a car worth 20,000 euro and he said around 200 euro. Now I'm not sure if this is a truly accurate quote but if you check some of the benefits in the article eg agreed value, extra €10,000 to restore above agreed value,use your own prefered garage for repairs etc.,unlimited mileage also.

Now I've not seen any documentation to back up the article and it is an old article so you would want to check to make sure all the benefits still apply to the policy.

In the article they say they are not the cheapest on the market,but if the quote came back anywhere near 200 euro with those benefits.........

Anybody have a classic car worth 20,000 or a group of classic cars worth 20,000 feel like making a call for an accurate quote?

pachanco

Meanwhile back in the real world,I emailed Brophy insurance this morning to say I wouldn't be able to renew because of the dramatic increase from 150 euro last year to 237.79 euro renewal premium for third party only.

So the owner of the Insurance broker got in touch with Axa and surprise,surprise they can now match last years quote. Perhaps I should have emailed them in the first place, rather than calling into the office in Portlaoise to question the renewal quote.

Brophy Insurance Broker
Cover through Axa

MGB roadster : Value €6000

Third party only Includes breakdown cover

3500 miles : €150

cplwhisper

pachanco wrote: »

Meanwhile back in the real world,I emailed Brophy insurance this morning to say I wouldn't be able to renew because of the dramatic increase from 150 euro last year to 237.79 eurorenewal premium for third party only.

So the owner of the Insurance broker got in touch with Axa and surprise,surprise they can now match last years quote. Perhaps I should have emailed them in the first place, rather than calling into the office in Portlaoise to question the renewal quote.

Brophy Insurance Broker
Cover through Axa

MGB roadster : Value 6000

Third party only

3500 miles : 150

That person in Brophys is probably the only broker who can secure revised Axa classic rates for you, as there is a 30yr connection between the companies.

Save yourself countless nights on here and ways ask him upfront and he'll always put in request . Earn his respect as classic car fan and you'll do well

pachanco

cplwhisper wrote: »

That person in Brophys is probably the only broker who can secure revised Axa classic rates for you, as there is a 30yr connection between the companies.

Save yourself countless nights on here and ways ask him upfront and he'll always put in request . Earn his respect as classic car fan and you'll do well

You are right there, still I'm kinda glad it worked out the way it did. I feel like I know a lot more about the classic insurance market here in Ireland now and I hope I managed to clear up some of the confusion about different companies and what they actually cover you for.

Sure I'll know what to do for next year and hopefully all my phone calls will help out some new classic car owners in their search for the most suitable cover.

Anybody insured through Barret's in Dunlaoghaire. I'd love to know what their policies actually cost. I can't help feeling the 200 euro number was just fired out to get me off the phone.

unfit2006

pachanco wrote: »

You are right there, still I'm kinda glad it worked out the way it did. I feel like I know a lot more about the classic insurance market here in Ireland now and I hope I managed to clear up some of the confusion about different companies and what they actually cover you for.

I have followed this thread closely and have learned a lot about what the various companies offer. I feel that transparency and sharing of experiences on issues like insurance costs etc. on threads such as this is the way to go. Sharing of information is the only way to take on the insurance companies who it appears can reduce their renewal quotes by up to 50% when the heat comes on them

pachanco

I received quotation documents in the post from First Ireland. As part of the pack there is a limited mileage declaration..
I hereby confirm that vehicle registration number___________
is used only for social, domestic or pleasure purposes only,
As a Classic/Vintage
car it is kept for Exhibition/ Investment purposes and is not driven more than miles a year

The milometer reading of the vehicle is________today.
Increase my cover to include occasional travel to business meetings. Yes/No

I presume this additional business cover comes at an additional cost to the previous quotes, but may suit some of you wishing to use your classic car to travel to business meetings occasionally as a lot of the other policies from other companies are social, domestic and pleasure only.

pachanco

I also received documentation from Campion Insurance.

One of their forms.
Vintage and light social, domestic and pleasure use declaration.

The company insuring is "Clan Insurance" (Trading name of FBD)

I sign below to state that the above vehicle will be used mainly for the purpose of Vintage use, going to and from a Vintage Rally/Show or to partake in an Event.

I understand that I am covered for Light Social, Domestic and Pleasure Use, however this vehicle will not be used as my main vehicle to which I have supplied my insurance details

I can see how this could have led to confusion regarding the whole "only covered to going to shows" previous comments I had seen in other threads.

pachanco

Also as I was in contact with Autoline by email, regarding the valuation policy. Apparently there is not a "Valuation Form" to fill in for Agreed Value. I thought there might be one with all sorts of complicated questions on it.

So depending on your valuation of your classic, they may only require the six photographs.

Perhaps this statement from the email may apply to higher value cars, just something to be aware of.

"We don’t have a form for the valuation so that’s why we ask for photographs and if possible an independent valuation is also asked for depending on the value of the vehicle."

Also relating to Autoline, I was earlier questioning, how the Salvage buy back would work in practice regarding an accident that was not your fault, where the other persons insurance company would be paying out on the claim.

"Doesn’t matter if it’s a fault or non-fault accident and who the insurer is as part of the classic insurance underwritten by Allianz you have the right to buy back the salvage from anyone."

Here is an extract from the Classic Vehicle policy document for Allianz
Payment (s) We will make

We may, at our option:

(a) Pay for Your Vehicle to be repaired, or

(b) Pay an amount in cash equivalent to the value of any loss of or damage to Your Vehicle.

We will not be bound to repair or replace your Vehicle exactly but will do so in as reasonable a manner as

circumstances permit.

If the vehicle belongs to someone else or is the subject of a hire purchase or leasing agreement, payment

for the total loss or destruction of the vehicle will normally be made to the Vehicle’s legal owner.

In the event of a total loss We will not pay more than:

(a) the agreed value of your Vehicle, or

(b) the cost of repairing your Vehicle up to the amount for which your Vehicle is insured under (a)

above.

In the event of a total loss claim we reserve the right to request supporting evidence of the agreed value if

we feel that your Vehicle has been overvalued.

You may, subject to a reasonable offer being made by You and accepted by Us, and subject to any total

loss requirements, retain the salvage in any way.

Note: We reserve the right to withdraw from any Agreement with You on an Agreed Value with 30 days

notice.

I wonder has anybody ever had an experience with claiming on one of these policies with the so called "Agreed Value". I guess it's not surprising but from my reading of the above text it looks like they have themselves well covered in terms of not paying much above "market value", you'd want to be keeping receipts for expenses invested in to your classic, or have definitive proof of the value of your vehicle if it is worth a lot more than other cars of the same make.

I guess they have to cover themselves for all eventualities. I suppose the more effort you go in to with establishing the "Agreed Value" at the start of the policy, the less likely you are to encounter any problems if the unthinkable happens.

Also I found it interesting that in terms of the "salvage buy back" that the offer is made by the owner of the vehicle and subject to acceptance of the insurance company. I would have thought that they would have come up with a figure and presented it as the cost of buying the salvaged vehicle.


Certainly the Barretts insurance broker "magazine article" that I referred to before seemed more classic car owner friendly. However I have not seen their "small print" policy documents.

Here is a quote from the article http://www.irishvintagescene.ie/barrett-private-insurances/

Only problem with this particular insurer is that the classic car or group of classic cars have to be valued over 20,000 euro.

Heaven forbid, but let us say your car was written-off. Regardless of the sum stated in your policy, most insurers will calculate your settlement based your car’s so-called ‘market value’. Needless to say with classics, their assessment of ‘market value’ is likely to be a lot less than you were expecting, and typically a lot less than the replacement cost. To add insult to injury, they will then probably deduct an excess. So, if you want to buy something similar, you could find yourself thousands of euros out-of-pocket. We understand this, so our approach is totally different. We allow you to insure your car, whatever its age, at an Agreed Value, which means that you agree the value of your car with us at the time you take out your policy. This agreed sum is then locked-in as your settlement figure for the whole policy year, with no deductions. If it comes to a claim and your car is written off, instead of all the usual infuriating haggling you can relax knowing precisely how much you will receive, down to the last cent. It doesn’t sound revolutionary, but it is! And, once the relevant documents have been received, the payment will be in your account via BACs within 24 hours.

Silvera

Some great information there pachanco!!

Autoline didnt ask me for any photos regarding the 'agreed value' part. Perhaps this is a new requirement on their part?

pachanco

Ah, that's interesting, might be worth looking in to so, just to make sure you're "fully covered". I guess the more supporting evidence you have to back up your valuation the better, previous receipts for parts or mechanics receipts etc. or even an independent valuation.

There can be so much difference between values of two of the same classic cars depending on condition and whether they have been fully restored or not. I mean how long is a piece of string?

kilianmanning

Does anybody know anywhere that does classic for under 25?

pachanco

kilianmanning wrote: »

Does anybody know anywhere that does classic for under 25?

I don't know for sure, but I have seen previous posts on other forums going back a few years, mentioning that Carole Nash cover drivers on classic policies from the age of 23, provided you meet their other terms and conditions for taking out a classic policy.

I've not seen this mentioned on a recent forum post and as a lot of insurance companies seem to be changing their terms and conditions on their classic policies lately I can't say for certain.

There may also be an option of being a named driver on a classic policy, if the classic car was owned and insured by a parent for example, but generally speaking for most classic policies 25 is the magic number.