New rail carriages have wifi??

trap4

Does anyone know if any of these new rail carriages announced yesterday will have wifi? Its disappointing to see that its no where on the list of 'new' features in that press release -


Features of the InterCity railcar fleet will include:

- Fully accessible to mobility-impaired customers

- Automatic PA and information display systems

- Fully air-conditioned

- Internal CCTV system for improved security

- Modern catering facilities - Individual base seating

- Sleek carriage design

- Advanced safety features throughout, to UIC standards


I hadn't taken an intercity train in about two years until last Saturday when I travelled from Limerick to Dublin return, and I have to say I was pleasently surprised by the improvements I saw all around - punctuality, speed, cleanliness and a much improved Hueston station. The previous time I travelled from the mid west to Dublin I actually flew Aer Arann from Kerry airport because I felt it offered better overall value, comfort and speed but even before the new carriages are introduced I would have to say I've changed my mind and will take the train again from now on. If only they had wifi.......

-Jim.

maxheadroom

trap4 wrote:

If only they had wifi.......

I'd imagine that's more an issue of IE getting the infrastructure in place to supply an internet connection to the trains. Putting a few Access Points into the trains shouldn't be a huge problem once the connectivity issue is worked out. I think one of the train companies in Scotland did something similar recently?

I would also imagine that this is not a priority for IE at the moment though...

Metrobest

Irish Rail would be better off getting the basics right before it has any grand notions of putting wifi sockets into trains. Most passengers don't want wireless internet; what they want is punctual trains, regular services, cheap tickets and excellent customer service.

I can't accept your point that Heuston Station has improved. The concourse is ugly; platform locations are inconveinent, the platforms are too narrow, staff surly and trains irregular. Any objective comparison with European railway networks shows Irish Rail failing miserably. Please don't tell me this is because Irish Rail is underfunded. What it comes down to is lack of imagination, bad management and sheer contempt for the customers who pay the toxicly high fares.

enterprise

It seems you don't remeber the Heuston station of old? Give me the new station any day with its 8 platforms, compared to 5 previously (or even 3 pre-1970's).

Last Friday while passing through Heuston on my way home I had a problem. I brought it to the attention of ther customer service staff who couldn't have been more helpful to me in resolving the issue.

Getting back to the main point of this thread - WIFI is groundbreaking technology for use on railways. Only GNER in the UK use it on some of their refurbished IC225 fleet. Virgin has decided it will also trial it on some of their fleet as well.

Even if IE's new fleet did not have WIFI from new it would not be a major issue to retro-fit it at a later stage.

enterprise

Press Release from the IE website:

Largest ever order for new trains by Iarnród Éireann by Press Office

LARGEST EVER ORDER OF NEW TRAINS TO TRANSFORM INTERCITY SERVICE

€262m investment in 120 carriages to deliver more frequency, more comfort an all routes

ORDER CONTINUES RECORD INVESTMENT PROGRAMME

The largest ever order of new trains by Iarnród Éireann has been announced. The Minister for Transport Martin Cullen TD was at Heuston Station today, to mark the order for the fleet of 120 railcar carriages for Intercity services at a cost of €262 million.

Funded by the Irish Government under the National Development Plan, the contract has been awarded to Mitsui of Japan, in partnership with Rotem of the Republic of Korea and Tokyu Car Corporation of Japan.

The new fleet will allow Iarnród Éireann to transform the Intercity service, offering higher frequency and greater comfort and quality on all routes for record numbers of Intercity customers. They will begin entering service from 2007.

Benefits to customers will include:

- Significantly higher frequency and capacity on all InterCity routes

- Modern on-board comfort standards

- The replacement of outdated fleet across the network; currently, over half the fleet on InterCity services is more than 30 years old

- Improved accessibility for mobility-impaired customers

- In conjunction with planned infrastructure works, faster journey times

Speaking at the announcement, CIÉ and Iarnród Éireann Chairman Dr John Lynch said “With these new trains, offering faster, more comfortable and more frequent services across our network, we can continue to grow dramatically our record number of customers.”



Investment programme

This major order of new trains for Intercity customers is the latest phase in the company’s record investment programme. The first phase of Intercity investment was concluded in 2004 with the completion of the renewal of track on the core radial network. Since 1999, over 420 miles of track has been upgraded from jointed track on timber sleepers to modern continuous welded rail on concrete sleepers. In six years, Iarnród Éireann upgraded these lines to a greater extent than that done in the previous 100 years. A total of over €300 million has been invested in this renewal work.

Further safety investment on the national network has also been undertaken, covering signalling, level crossings, bridges and other structures.

Major fleet investment has already been delivered on DART and Commuter services, with the DART fleet doubled in size in just five years with 78 new carriages since 2000, and the dedicated Commuter fleet increasing from 17 carriages to 144 since the late 1990s, with 36 more due to be delivered later this year.

This has benefited our customers through major increases in capacity, allowing more people switch to public transport and resulting in record passenger numbers being recorded in 8 of the last 10 years. This has been complimented by new customer service systems such as in-station and on-board information displays, automatic ticket vending machines, and DARTXT, the first real-time public transport timetable system to mobile phones in Ireland.



Intercity fleet investment

The order of 120 Intercity railcars is the most significant step yet in the transformation of the Intercity fleet by Iarnród Éireann. With this order, all Intercity trains over 30 years old will be removed from the fleet, and modern trains will operate all Intercity services.

Already, 67 Intercity carriages have been ordered for the Cork/Dublin route from CAF if Spain. They will begin entering service later this year, and will ultimately deliver an hourly service each way on the route during 2006.

Already, modern railcars are operating on the Rosslare/Dublin route, and later this year, Sligo/Dublin services will be increased in frequency and operated by modern trains.



Order for 120 railcars – every route to benefit from investment

Today’s announcement of a record order for Intercity carriages will ensure that every route, and million of customers annually, will benefit from new trains.

The order will be for high-specification Intercity railcars, a new departure for Intercity fleet in Ireland – Diesel Multiple Units with integrated engines in each carriage unit (similar to diesel engines on Commuter train) replacing the traditional locomotive-hauled trains.

The trains will operate on the Dublin-Westport/Ballina; Dublin-Galway; Dublin-Limerick/Ennis; Dublin/Cork-Tralee and Dublin-Waterford routes.

They will enter service during 2007 and 2008, and when all in service, will allow Iarnród Éireann to offer the following frequencies:

ROUTE
FREQUENCY

Dublin – Cork
Hourly all day

Dublin – Limerick
Hourly – mix of direct and shuttle services from Cork service

Dublin – Galway
Hourly peak, every two hours off-peak

Dublin – Waterford
Every two hours all day

Dublin – Sligo
Every two hours all day

Dublin – Westport
Existing through services PLUS additional shuttle services Athlone-Westport, connect to Galway service

Dublin – Tralee
Existing through services PLUS shuttle service every two hours Mallow-Tralee connecting with Cork service

Dublin-Rosslare
Existing service + extra commuter services (Gorey / Arklow)

Branch lines
Additional services





Features of the InterCity railcar fleet will include:

- Fully accessible to mobility-impaired customers

- Automatic PA and information display systems

- Fully air-conditioned

- Internal CCTV system for improved security

- Modern catering facilities - Individual base seating

- Sleek carriage design

- Advanced safety features throughout, to UIC standards

Mitsui, Rotem and Tokyu Car Corporation are leading companies in the provision of train rolling stock, with wide ranging international experience.


Attached is an artist’s impression of how the new fleet will look.

mackerski

Metrobest wrote:

I can't accept your point that Heuston Station has improved. The concourse is ugly; platform locations are inconveinent, the platforms are too narrow, staff surly and trains irregular. Any objective comparison with European railway networks shows Irish Rail failing miserably.

Ever been in Brussels Central?

Dermot

Metrobest

enterprise, I remember the Heuston Station of old. Yes, there were fewer platforms but the station looked nicer. The platforms were more accessible. The current set-up looks like a glorified shed. In terms of punctuality and customer service, nothing has changed.

Dermot, yes, I have taken trains from and to Brussels Central. It's a perfectly acceptable station, it has none of the design and aesthetic flaws of Heuston. But Midi is nicer, I would have to say. And Brussels North is a total kip, but it's not supposed to be a prestige station in the way that Heuston is.

enterprise

Well you might like to know that there is one final refurb project to do at Heuston - the roof. It is going to be started this year and when complete it will look very nice.

I can't agree on the Heuston of old. The facilities there now are much improved.

Supermacs

Easons

Cafetogo.

Just to name a few.

invincibleirish

and on a slightly related note.will it ever be possible that 'intercity' service will mean more then every city having a connection w/ dublin and instead have something like having direct services from my own city of cork to galway,waterford and belfast as an example?

enterprise

Never say never!

If the WRC gets approved for reopening then a Galway - Limerick - Waterford service would be a possibility. Also I see no reason why the Cobh - Cork - Mallow and Limerick Jct - Limerick - Ennis services could be joined up to provide a Ennis - Cobh service in the future.

Metrobest

enterprise wrote:

Well you might like to know that there is one final refurb project to do at Heuston - the roof.
The facilities there now are much improved.
Supermacs
.

That's good. A roof may take the nasty edge off it. Nevertheless, the platform layout will remain flawed.

The facilities haven't improved. Supermacs is hardly known for quality cuisine. I think most customers would choose frequent, reliable trains over waiting ages in Supermacs eating a dodgy chicken burger.

enterprise

When the new fleet arrives we will have exactly that!

mackerski

Metrobest wrote:

Dermot, yes, I have taken trains from and to Brussels Central. It's a perfectly acceptable station, it has none of the design and aesthetic flaws of Heuston.

Its platforms are underground, dim and, as I recall, narrow. The station is perfectly fine - in particular, it has good train services, for which I will excuse a great deal.

Dermot

Metrobest

mackerski wrote:

Its platforms are underground, dim and, as I recall, narrow. The station is perfectly fine - in particular, it has good train services, for which I will excuse a great deal.

Dermot

The platforms are narrow but there is an efficient throughput of passengers. In other words, each train departs on time so you don't have the
Dublin-esque situation of passengers for two trains waiting on the same platform. Also, there is no ticket check at the platform, which makes life a whole lot easier. And the station itself is right in the centre of town, loaded with lovely facilites that make the journey so much nicer!

Andrew Duffy

Metrobest wrote:

I can't accept your point that Heuston Station has improved. The concourse is ugly; platform locations are inconveinent, the platforms are too narrow, staff surly and trains irregular.

I'm not a particular fan of Irish Rail, but have you been in Heuston Station since its refurbishment? It's quite some distance from Amsterdam. It is, however, about 150m from my apartment, and my impression of it from the hundred or so times I have been there since the refurbishment is that it is as clean, safe, bright and well-equipped as any similarly-sized station elsewhere in the world. The punctuality adn frequency of the trains has nothing to do with the station itself.

dowlingm

To get back to the original question - I think if IE is serious about a business class service to attract the kind of passenger who can afford to fly regularly, then it should put wifi in the Citygold carriages. This would show it is serious about the business passenger and giving a fairly cheap way to differentiate it from the economy service.

The problem would be how to provide that service. The airlines are trialling services like Connexion by Boeing but the business class passengers are paying thousands of euro so it's a bit more economically viable. Short of WiMAX all along the line I can't think of how it could be done as 802.11 is a very short range technology.

trap4

Well I only have the memories of my last train trip a few years ago to go on, and beauty is always in the eye of the beholder but in my opinion the new Hueston is much more attractive than the old one. I don't know how it compares to European stations but I was left with a very positive opinion last Saturday. And remember, that's coming from someone who chose to fly Aer Arann last time I visited Dublin in order to avoid the railway!

A few things I noted were better displays, seating, shops, PA system (much more professional and clear), and a generally better ambience. Of course things can always be better but credit where credit's due.

Victor

I don't think it's a priority.

The is also the problem of connecting the wifi host to the internet - what with tunnels and cuttings.

IT'S LOIKE OMG! WFT! Laaaaaaag!!!!11!!!

De Rebel

Andrew Duffy wrote:

.... have you been in Heuston Station since its refurbishment? It's quite some distance from Amsterdam.

It is also quite some distance from the Cork train. The walk from the main hall to the City Gold section of the Cork train (at its usual Platform 7 berth) is ridiculous. Makes you suspect that the station redesign was carried out in conjunction with the fools responsible for the fiasco that is Dublin Airport Pier A.

And as for the Heuston refurbishment, it is still cold, drab, and dirty. The toilets are appalling. There is almost no protection from the elements on the new platforms. There is no attempt at seamless integration with busses, luas or taxi services.

Andrew Duffy

There is no attempt at seamless integration with busses, luas or taxi services.

I'm going to make another thread regarding this, as I've had a few ideas while waiting for trains, busses and trams, and I'd like to see what other people's ideas are.

Metrobest

Andrew Duffy wrote:

I'm not a particular fan of Irish Rail, but have you been in Heuston Station since its refurbishment? It's quite some distance from Amsterdam. It is, however, about 150m from my apartment, and my impression of it from the hundred or so times I have been there since the refurbishment is that it is as clean, safe, bright and well-equipped as any similarly-sized station elsewhere in the world. The punctuality adn frequency of the trains has nothing to do with the station itself.

Yes, I've been in Dublin quite a bit for work reasons lately. On a day return flight from Amsterdam to Dublin I really see that the two cities, in terms of public transport, are worlds apart! As an intercity station I think Heuston falls way short of what it could be, had it been designed properly and, crucially, managed properly. If anyone here has been to Rotterdam Central station they would probably agree with me that a station of Heuston's size/importance is capable of so much more!

trap4

As a follow up to my original question I though this was interesting -

http://www.govtech.net/magazine/channel_story.php?channel=14&id=93900


European Train Operator Pilots Wi-Fi at 300 Kilometers per Hour
May 04, 2005 By News Staff

European train operator, Thalys, recently announced the availability of wireless Internet access on its Paris to Brussels route at transfer rates comparable to a faster variant of digital subscriber line (DSL) known as Asymmetric DSL plus. The maximum bandwidth is four Mbit/s downstream and two Mbit/s upstream at 300 km/h.

John R

UK operator GNER have had a similar service running for a while now, they use satellite and cell phone connections to provide full coverage.

http://www.gner.co.uk/GNER/Wi-Fi/Wi-Fi.htm

MarkoP11

To be honest wifi is something that can be fiited at a later date without much hassle, the more pressing issue is a power socket to plug into.

The MK3 fleet and half the Dart fleet have power sockets its just a case of knowing where they are hidden. Naturally I would not advise unauthorised usage

The issue is providing the service to the train, not on board, 3G coverage here is less than great and remember mobile phone services tend to target roads, there are many sections of Dublin Cork where I lose the signal and unless you want to shell out coverage is not going to be available in the tunnel in Cork

Of course the service won't be free

Maybe what we should look at first is wifi hotspots at all major stations

John R

Indeed. The service I linked to above is free for first class but is quite expensive for standard class.

£2.95 - 30 minutes
£4.95 - 1 hour (60 minutes)
£7.95 - 2 hours (120 minutes)
£9.95 - 3 hours (180 minutes )

And that is only viable because it is a big pull for the large numbers of full fare business customers who they are competing with the airlines for.

Irish Rail will only ever have a tiny fraction of these lucrative passengers.

BrianD

Saw a bit about the train wi-fi on the discovery channel. Requires special satellite tracking technology to keep the connection aligned and open as the train moves. Seems to be a cas e of proving that it can be done rather than something that the company wants to provide. I'd say its an expensive soloution till this technology develops further.

Wi-fi enabled stations are probably more realistic. You work away on your laptop and then hit send/receive when you reach a station.

enterprise

MarkoP11 wrote:

coverage is not going to be available in the tunnel in Cork

Actually you can recieve a phone signal within the tunnel coming out of Cork. I've had a phone conversation numerous times departing Cork on the train up through the tunnel, the black spot is after Kilbarry when your in the cutting heading up the bank to Rathpeacon, you lose the signal then!! Mobile phone signals have been available within the tunnel for over two years.

Another black spot is just near Sallins between the School and the Canal bridge.

MarkoP11

Must have some kind of leaky feeder setup in the tunnel. There is a patch just outside Portalington and again near Lisduff where the signal dies

Voice calls tolerate quite bad signals since the human mind can put things back together. To provide a decent broadband service onboard would be very expensive that is unless you get a major telco to bank roll the operation. Fact is its hard enough to get fixed broadband at home

enterprise

Must have all right. It was probably a coincidence, but I started receiving a phone signal within the tunnel the weekend after I had changed my phone!!

Victor

I think it is Singapore has had GSM coverage on their subway routes, pretty much since the start. However I think one company managed to wrangle an exclusive deal ...

GSM seems to tolerate a certain number of reflections (hence you can get a signal inside buildings), so I imagine pointing an antenna down the tunnel might work (or use a series of low power antennae in the tunnel).

billy the squid

@enterprise

When are we likely to see the trains pictured in the attatchment, rolling into our stations?

KC61

The new CAF coaching stock is due to enter service on the Dublin-Cork route from December 2005. However, the full hourly Dublin-Cork service will not be in place until April/May 2006 when all of the new rolling stock will be available for public service.

enterprise

Billy,

Which attachment are you referring to?

Trainuser has already answered the 67 carriages for the Dublin / Cork line but the 120 carriages on order from Mitsui / Rotem will start to be delivered and enter service in late 2007 / early 2008.

Enterprise

mackerski

Victor wrote:

I think it is Singapore has had GSM coverage on their subway routes, pretty much since the start.

Austria has GSM coverage in all of their many road tunnels. This is a matter of safety policy, as it enables broken down drivers to call for help without walking along the tunnel at great personal risk.

Dermot

parsi

WiFi ? Most peopel would be happy to have air-conditioned carriages that were clean.

Heuston has the potential to be good but it is still a dirty station - my most recent visit showed that the external concourse where you get the bus was littered with cups, sandwich wrapeprs etc and general spillage. Its no good spending the money on a nice bright airy concourse without spending the money on general maintenance and cleaning.

dowlingm

right on parsi

BrianD

In fairness though, litter is a trait of the Irish nation. Dutch people take their rubbish home or put it in a bin. Irish people drop it and assume that the guy with the brush is PAID to clean up after them. There is an economical level of maintenance that unfortunately falls below the propensity of public transport users to drop litter.

enterprise

BrianD wrote:

In fairness though, litter is a trait of the Irish nation. Dutch people take their rubbish home or put it in a bin. Irish people drop it and assume that the guy with the brush is PAID to clean up after them. There is an economical level of maintenance that unfortunately falls below the propensity of public transport users to drop litter.

To true Brian, ever go in to a chipper? Say on a Saturday night and the state of the place is only fit for rats - Irish society as a whole can be very very dirty.

Gillo

Metrobest wrote:

Irish Rail would be better off getting the basics right before it has any grand notions of putting wifi sockets into trains. Most passengers don't want wireless internet; what they want is punctual trains, regular services, cheap tickets and excellent customer service.

Hit the nail on the head, the cost of rolling out wifi, would be better spend on provide more carriages.

Solair

Hmmm I wonder if you could get a good DSL connection via the metal rails

I'm sure they could do something with a satellite connection though. Trains move quite predictably and generally don't take sharp corners so it'd be quite reasonable to assume that you could put a dish on the roof in a little dome that could maintain a sat signal pretty well.

Although in 5 years time it might be as useless as on-board payphones / cardphones are today. That is if 3G does what it's been promising to do!

MarkoP11

Solair wrote:

Hmmm I wonder if you could get a good DSL connection via the metal rails

The rails are already used for very limited data communications for the signaling system, so thats gone, bandwidth is more lke bits per minute not megabits/sec

There is new wireless technology called WiMax on the way, this would allow wireless broadband with a range of 75km perfect for rail application