should i be afraid?

true

cdebru wrote:

no they always refer to themselves as republicans they refer to the community as nationalist/republican as a recognition that not all nationalists are republican
there is nothing wrong with being a nationalist it might be a dirty word in your book but it is an perfectly honourable thing to be.
what is the point

Fianna Fail describes themselves as the republican party. Are they not nationalist ? By your logic, if not all nationalists are republicans, surely all republicans are nationalists.

The original point was which two organisations described themselves as being socialist and Nationalist

quote " : Originally Posted by Capt'n Midnight
SF are Socialist and Nationalist and
National Socialism anyone ?"

cdebru wrote:

it has never been settled who did shoot these 2 young men it should be noted that when brendan mcfarlane was charged with offences relating to that day he was not charged with murder or manslaughter
the only reference i could find on google was a review of a book http://www.emigrant.ie/article.asp?iCategoryID=49&iArticleID=27744

" is of Garda recruit Gary Sheehan and Private Patrick Kelly in Derrada Wood, Ballinamore during the operation to rescue supermarket chief Don Tidey; it is unresolved to this day whether these deaths were caused by what has become known as "friendly fire" in a situation in which the IRA members were in military uniforms and the search party included large numbers of untested gardai and soldiers."

The Guards know who killed the soldier and Guard. Look at any old paper from the time. I remember it well anyway.

cdebru wrote:

parallels there are no parallels
you have a rather simplistic view of what nazi means I suggest you learn more about what nazism was/is before calling people nazis it only belittles your arguement
the suggestion is that anyone who is a socialist can have no nationalist views or they would run the risk of turning into a nazi

I never called anyone else Nazis except the Nazis themselves. What I said was :"Who else was nationalist and socialist ? Who would not condemn the disappearance of a mother of ten or other individuals ? Who has engaged in what could be called some degree of incidents of eithnic cleansing ( Brits out ) etc. Who rose to power with a pistol in one hand and a ballot box in the other ? Who had an ally / member in Sean Russell? The IRA or the Nazis?"
Surely even you can see some similarities there.

cdebru wrote:

UDR RUC were crown forces the IRA would view anyone who worked for or profited from the british forces as a collaborator

First of all you said just the British Army. Now you are expanding the net somewhat.

cdebru wrote:

the burning of landlords houses is not ethnic cleansing

I am sure the tens of thousands of protestants who fleed during those turbulent years three generations ago would disagree with you.

cdebru wrote:

just for the record ethnic cleansing was introduced to Ireland by the English
to hell or connaught ring a bell

If thats the case how come Connaught is the least populated province in Ireland. Maybe you will regard the present government ( which you probably do not recognise because it is not SF ) as having a resettlement policy by introducing rural renewal / decentralisation policies. Anyway, we cannot live by harking back to what went on many centuries ago.

cdebru wrote:

he (Russell ) was not a collaborator Ireland was not at war with Germany
no more than the people who tried to get help from France or Spain at different times in our history
or indeed the IRA more recently who took aid from libya because it was available it does not mean that the IRA are Gadaffist or whatever

I never said the IRA are "Gadaffist" or whatever. However, does the phrase "birds of a feather flock together" ring a bell ? Gadaffi at the time supported the IRA. Now he does not and he has spilt all the beans on them.

Russell, on behalf of the IRA, had the gall to invite Nazi Germany to invade Ireland. Nazi Germany did not allocate a precious U-boat to him just for nothing, you know. I am not saying Russell was a Nazi : this would be unkind to some of the Germans who were Nazis, but not to all the Germans who were Nazis. Sinn Fein being involved in a statue to honour Russell is an insult to the 12000 Irish men , from North and South, who went to fight Nazism, so Europe and us can be free. ( Do'nt tell me you are not free )

sceptre

true wrote:

By your logic, if not all nationalists are republicans, surely all republicans are nationalists.

That doesn't stand up to any mathematical logic as you well know. "All members of set A are also members of set B" (A is hence a subset of does not necessarily imply "All members of set B are also members of set A". If I had an animal with four legs it might be a cat but we couldn't tell it wasn't a dog just on account of it having four legs.

Stabshauptmann

true wrote:

In the past, during the "armed struggle", Sinn Fein has fed some of its young recruits such propoganda and a hatred of the Brits / Prods , that it has had little difficulty then passing them on to its "military wing", to carry out bomb and gun attacks. All other parties do not have a military wing with a distorted view of the world eg the IRA does not recognise the Southern govt or security services as being legitimate. Sinn Fein - never mind the IRA -refuses to condemn the murder and abduction of a mother of ten as a crime. If you listen to Shinners talking among themselves you will really get a feeling for their attitudes.

Hatred of all things british was enschrined in many generations when SF was practically non-existant.

You cry from the top of your voice beware SF, they have an army.
The largest 4 parties in Ireland all had an army, atm SF doesnt have an army, in fact it used to be the IRAs wing not vice versa but thats just a technicallity

cdebru

jbkenn wrote:

I thought so, as usual, tenuous at best, perhaps you should take the opportunity to read some of his writings and come back and explain the perceived linkage.

jbkenn

why would i do that i am merely pointing out that sinn fein claim they are a republican socialist party if you want them to explain it to you email them

cdebru

true wrote:

Fianna Fail describes themselves as the republican party. Are they not nationalist ? By your logic, if not all nationalists are republicans, surely all republicans are nationalists.

The original point was which two organisations described themselves as being socialist and Nationalist

quote " : Originally Posted by Capt'n Midnight
SF are Socialist and Nationalist and
National Socialism anyone ?"

Fianna Fail
the Labour party
sections of the SDLP

and for the last time sinn fein describe themselves as being socialist and republican
and even if you insist on calling them socialist and nationalist that does not equate to nazi

true wrote:

The Guards know who killed the soldier and Guard. Look at any old paper from the time. I remember it well anyway.

If that was true why was no one charged why was no major murder hunt launched.Why when brendan mcfarlane was charged in relation to the incident was he charged with possesion of a weapon and not murder or manslaughter.

I suspect that the gardai do know who fired the fatal shots and that is why no one was pursued for the deaths

true wrote:

I never called anyone else Nazis except the Nazis themselves. What I said was :"Who else was nationalist and socialist ? Who would not condemn the disappearance of a mother of ten or other individuals ? Who has engaged in what could be called some degree of incidents of eithnic cleansing ( Brits out ) etc. Who rose to power with a pistol in one hand and a ballot box in the other ? Who had an ally / member in Sean Russell? The IRA or the Nazis?"
Surely even you can see some similarities there.

no I cant what power have the provos rose to. what ethnic cleansing

true wrote:

First of all you said just the British Army. Now you are expanding the net somewhat.

the UDR were a part of the UK army dont tell me you did not know that
the RUC were crown forces as well
it is not expanding the net

true wrote:

I am sure the tens of thousands of protestants who fleed during those turbulent years three generations ago would disagree with you.

the fact that thousands of protestants left this country is hardly a shocking revelation thousands of Irish people of all religions and none left this Island
it would be more suprising if every protestant stayed and only non protestants emigrated.

true wrote:

If thats the case how come Connaught is the least populated province in Ireland. Maybe you will regard the present government ( which you probably do not recognise because it is not SF ) as having a resettlement policy by introducing rural renewal / decentralisation policies. Anyway, we cannot live by harking back to what went on many centuries ago.

I dont believe that you are trying to rewrite history and tell us that the cromwell did not drive thousands of people from their land and into connaught

as to why the region is the least populated it is the same reason that irish people were driven there in the first place because the land was poor quality in fact one of cromwell generals was quoted as saying

"neither water enough to drown a man, nor a tree to hang him, nor soil enough to bury him."

then there was this thing called the famine and then after that we had mass emigration for about 140 years
as to not living in history you seem quite happy to do it when it suits your arguement is there a cut off date that we cannot mention what happened before that.

true wrote:

I never said the IRA are "Gadaffist" or whatever. However, does the phrase "birds of a feather flock together" ring a bell ? Gadaffi at the time supported the IRA. Now he does not and he has spilt all the beans on them.

no the phrase the enemy of my enemy

true wrote:

Russell, on behalf of the IRA, had the gall to invite Nazi Germany to invade Ireland. Nazi Germany did not allocate a precious U-boat to him just for nothing, you know. I am not saying Russell was a Nazi : this would be unkind to some of the Germans who were Nazis, but not to all the Germans who were Nazis. Sinn Fein being involved in a statue to honour Russell is an insult to the 12000 Irish men , from North and South, who went to fight Nazism, so Europe and us can be free. ( Do'nt tell me you are not free )

how do you know what russell did in his contact with the nazis

while the second world war resulted in the defeat of the nazis it is debatable that it led to a free europe

true

Necromancer wrote:

Hatred of all things british was enschrined in many generations when SF was practically non-existant.

Tell that to Mary McAleese next time before she opens her mouth in Auschwitz. It might explain a lot.

Necromancer wrote:

You cry from the top of your voice beware SF, they have an army.
The largest 4 parties in Ireland all had an army, atm SF doesnt have an army, in fact it used to be the IRAs wing not vice versa but thats just a technicallity

No, I never cried it from the top of my voice. I do not think SF even have an army : that would be an insult to all other armies. SF have had links to the IRA, a terrorist group, in the past, and it is safe to assume they still have
members in common, links, associations, etc. What T-shirts does Sinn Fein sell : it says IRA, Undefeated army, with the shilouette of gunmen. As Grizzly sez, "they havent gone away y'know"

true

Necromancer wrote:

The largest 4 parties in Ireland all had an army,

I am not too familiar with the origins of the DUP and UUP : had they private illegial armies?

Even if they had, there is no excuse for a party in the 21st century Europe having one.

true

cdebru wrote:

and for the last time sinn fein describe themselves as being socialist and republican
and even if you insist on calling them socialist and nationalist that does not equate to nazi

The original point , as asked by someone else, was which two organisations described themselves as being socialist and Nationalist ? One was the Nazi party. A nationalist party is one that fights for its country,which is why many Catholics in N. Ireland describe themselves as Nationalists, as opposed to Unionists. Now, what party is socialist and nationalist ( ie from a nationalist background, or with a nationalist mindset ) ?

cdebru wrote:

I suspect that the gardai do know who fired the fatal shots and that is why no one was pursued for the deaths

The death of the gardai and soldier, who were looking in the woods for the IRA kidnap gang, was still caused by the IRA.

cdebru wrote:

no I cant what power have the provos rose to.

To be able to go to the White house, Downing St., etc, to have TDs and MEPs etc

cdebru wrote:

the UDR were a part of the UK army dont tell me you did not know that
the RUC were crown forces as well
it is not expanding the net

I said army cooks, protestant workmen etc. The RUC were not part of the British army.

cdebru wrote:

the fact that thousands of protestants left this country is hardly a shocking revelation thousands of Irish people of all religions and none left this Island
it would be more suprising if every protestant stayed and only non protestants emigrated.

The protestant population declined alarmingly in the 20th century in "the free state". The murders and house burnings and intimidation at the early part of the century did not help. Decline was approx 250,000 to 100,000 , although it has stabilized and is increasing slowly now.

cdebru wrote:

no the phrase the enemy of my enemy


how do you know what russell did in his contact with the nazis

while the second world war resulted in the defeat of the nazis it is debatable that it led to a free europe

Russell invited the Nazi to invade Ireland, with IRA help. ( the phrase the enemy of my enemy etc ). Russell died on a U-boat submarine. Our infamous statue commemorates him, after all, as unveiled by Sinn Fein.

After WW2, you say it is debatable that it led to a free europe , but it was a hell of a lot freer at the end of the war than in 1939 / 1940, thanks to the UK, US and lots of other nations.

cdebru

true wrote:

The original point , as asked by someone else, was which two organisations described themselves as being socialist and Nationalist ? One was the Nazi party. A nationalist party is one that fights for its country,which is why many Catholics in N. Ireland describe themselves as Nationalists, as opposed to Unionists. Now, what party is socialist and nationalist ( ie from a nationalist background, or with a nationalist mindset ) ?.

thats just waffle
the other is Fianna Fail so what

true wrote:

The death of the gardai and soldier, who were looking in the woods for the IRA kidnap gang, was still caused by the IRA..

even if they did NOT shoot them as you stated in your previous thread pulling back the tarpaulin at point blank range all that info and you back track to well they are still responsible

true wrote:

To be able to go to the White house, Downing St., etc, to have TDs and MEPs etc.

they have TDs MEPs etc because they were elected not because someone gave them to them as a present

true wrote:

I said army cooks, protestant workmen etc. The RUC were not part of the British army..

anyone working for the british army no matter what religion was a collaborator in the view of the provos
the RUC were part of the crown forces not part of the British Army

true wrote:

The protestant population declined alarmingly in the 20th century in "the free state". The murders and house burnings and intimidation at the early part of the century did not help. Decline was approx 250,000 to 100,000 , although it has stabilized and is increasing slowly now. .

the entire population declined alarmingly in the 20th century The fact that some people who previously held a priveleged position decided to leave when that privelege was gone is not surprising. But that is not the same as people being forced from the country because of their religion as you seem to be suggesting

true wrote:

Russell invited the Nazi to invade Ireland, with IRA help. ( the phrase the enemy of my enemy etc ). Russell died on a U-boat submarine. Our infamous statue commemorates him, after all, as unveiled by Sinn Fein..

sean russell did not invite the nazis or anyone else to invade Ireland. He was following a long tradition in Ireland that britains difficulty was Irelands oppurtunity.
To suggest that Sean Russell a veteran of 1916 and the black and tan war a man who had dedicated his live to Irish Independence wanted to replace British OCcupation with german OCcupation makes no sense what so ever

what Sean Russell said himself

"I am not a Nazi. I am not even pro-German. I am an Irishman fighting for the independence of Ireland"

and of course the statue in fairview park was unveiled by erected and maintained by and will be repaired by the National Graves Association



After WW2, you say it is debatable that it led to a free europe , but it was a hell of a lot freer at the end of the war than in 1939 / 1940, thanks to the UK, US and lots of other nations.[/QUOTE]

not for eastern europe

cdebru

true wrote:

I am not too familiar with the origins of the DUP and UUP : had they private illegial armies?

Even if they had, there is no excuse for a party in the 21st century Europe having one.

Edward Carson Ulster Volunteer Force 1912

Ian Paisley Ulster Protestant Volunteers 1966 and later the third force among others

A Dub in Glasgo

Sean Russell still getting brought into all available discussions?

An interesting piece I read in the (Glasgow) Herald today.

CIA forced to reveal files on cold war links with ex-Nazis

true

cdebru wrote:

thats just waffle
the other is Fianna Fail so what

Its not waffle. It explains the question you asked. The topic as raised by someone else was which two parties were Nationalist and Socialist...One was the Nazi ...who was the other ? Sorry , cdebru, Fianna Fail is not socialist, although it is part of the pan-Nationalist front, along with your socialist friends, Sinn Fein.

cdebru wrote:

even if they did NOT shoot them as you stated in your previous thread pulling back the tarpaulin at point blank range all that info and you back track to well they are still responsible

Which ever way you look at it, the IRA did kidnap that well known person in the eighties. There was a massive Garda and army hunt for the IRA kidnappers, and when they were cornered a Guard and a soldier were killed.
Look at all of the newspapers from the time : I remember it was as big a media event as Gda McCabes murder.

cdebru wrote:

they have TDs MEPs etc because they were elected not because someone gave them to them as a present

Of course they have cdebru, but that is not the point. You asked ( and I quote) "what power have the provos rose to?" ,( in reply to a previous point I made). I replied "To be able to go to the White house, Downing St., etc, to have TDs and MEPs etc."
Maybe you could stick to the point instead of going off on a tangent when you cannot win the main point ?

cdebru wrote:

.
anyone working for the british army no matter what religion was a collaborator in the view of the provos
the RUC were part of the crown forces not part of the British Army

Again you have gone off the point. You originally said just the British army.
Now you have expanded the net. Yes, I know even people / workmen doing a job on a police station were "collaborators". The provos in the seventies targetted a minibus full of Protestant workmen who were not working for the British army. And what about Enniskillen. Were they "collaborators" because they were commemorating the dead ( of all religions ) of the world wars etc?

[/QUOTE]

cdebru wrote:

the entire population declined alarmingly in the 20th century The fact that some people who previously held a priveleged position decided to leave when that privelege was gone is not surprising. But that is not the same as people being forced from the country because of their religion as you seem to be suggesting

The rest of the population did not more than halve, cdebru. Not all of the 250,000 had priveledged position : 99.9% were ordinary people. What about the murders , the house burnings, the intimidation in early 20th century Ireland. What about Ferhard on sea in the 50s for example?

cdebru wrote:

sean russell did not invite the nazis or anyone else to invade Ireland. He was following a long tradition in Ireland that britains difficulty was Irelands oppurtunity.
To suggest that Sean Russell a veteran of 1916 and the black and tan war a man who had dedicated his live to Irish Independence wanted to replace British OCcupation with german OCcupation makes no sense what so ever

Oh yes he did. And him and his pals in the IRA were to help them, as they though it would rid Ireland of Britain. What do you think Russell was doing on a German u-boat at that stage in the war, when Germany needed to allocate its u-boats to other duties? The Germans did not go along with Russells plan : they knew the IRA were "nicht gut" in military terms.


QUOTE=cdebru]

After WW2, you say it is debatable that it led to a free europe , but it was a hell of a lot freer at the end of the war than in 1939 / 1940, thanks to the UK, US and lots of other nations
not for eastern europe[/QUOTE]


To put things in context, I earlier said "Sinn Fein being involved in a statue to honour Russell is an insult to the 12000 Irish men , from North and South, who went to fight Nazism, so Europe and us can be free. ( Do'nt tell me you are not free )". Cdebru said its freedom is debateable.
We were talking about the morality of fighting Nazism, ( instead of collaborating with them like Russell ) : I think it fair to say Europe was a lot freer with the UK, US and other allies fighting Nazism than if the world lay down before Nazism. As regards your snide little comment about eastern Europe , The UK and US played their part in the cold war (again without Irelands help ) and now do you accept Europe is free ?

monument

true wrote:

Even if they had, there is no excuse for a party in the 21st century Europe having one.

Yes, the 21st century is such a utopia; it’s just amazing how all of the problems of the last century despaired in less then four years.

Oh, joys of joys aren’t we lucky to be living in such a utopia.

true

monument wrote:

Yes, the 21st century is such a utopia; it’s just amazing how all of the problems of the last century despaired in less then four years.

Oh, joys of joys aren’t we lucky to be living in such a utopia.

Nobody , except yourself now, said or suggested it to be a Utopia. However, judging by the number of immigrants / refugees from all over the world now coming to Ireland and Britain, perhaps it is a Utopia, at least to them.

The point is , there is no excuse for a party in the 21st century Europe having a private illegial army.

cdebru

true wrote:

Its not waffle. It explains the question you asked. The topic as raised by someone else was which two parties were Nationalist and Socialist...One was the Nazi ...who was the other ? Sorry , cdebru, Fianna Fail is not socialist, although it is part of the pan-Nationalist front, along with your socialist friends, Sinn Fein.

I did not ask a question i stated that sinn fein is a republican socialist party
you have gone around in circles trying to prove that they are a nationalist party

fianna fail leader claims to be a socialist

true wrote:

Which ever way you look at it, the IRA did kidnap that well known person in the eighties. There was a massive Garda and army hunt for the IRA kidnappers, and when they were cornered a Guard and a soldier were killed.
Look at all of the newspapers from the time : I remember it was as big a media event as Gda McCabes murder.

whichever way you look at it you said they were shot by the IRA at point blank range now you have backed away from it

true wrote:

Of course they have cdebru, but that is not the point. You asked ( and I quote) "what power have the provos rose to?" ,( in reply to a previous point I made). I replied "To be able to go to the White house, Downing St., etc, to have TDs and MEPs etc."
Maybe you could stick to the point instead of going off on a tangent when you cannot win the main point ?

I again ask what power visiting the white house is not power nor downing street
having elected representatives is not power unless they are in government
and the reason they have elected representaives is because enough people voted for them not because of the IRA

true wrote:

Again you have gone off the point. You originally said just the British army.
Now you have expanded the net. Yes, I know even people / workmen doing a job on a police station were "collaborators". The provos in the seventies targetted a minibus full of Protestant workmen who were not working for the British army. And what about Enniskillen. Were they "collaborators" because they were commemorating the dead ( of all religions ) of the world wars etc?

no you said brits out was a form of ethnic cleansing i put you straight that the Brits refered to in that statement is the British army

true wrote:

The rest of the population did not more than halve, cdebru. Not all of the 250,000 had priveledged position : 99.9% were ordinary people. What about the murders , the house burnings, the intimidation in early 20th century Ireland. What about Ferhard on sea in the 50s for example?

what murder burnings and intimidation of ordinary protestants give me an example
another one of trues 99.9% i dont suppose you could back that up
fethard on sea is the only example it was not state organised it was church organised

some explanations for some of the drop in numbers
WW1 thousands died

the removal of 24000 british troops

voluntary emigration

and of course some protestants did not feel that they belonged to the new catholic dominated state

true wrote:

Oh yes he did. And him and his pals in the IRA were to help them, as they though it would rid Ireland of Britain. What do you think Russell was doing on a German u-boat at that stage in the war, when Germany needed to allocate its u-boats to other duties? The Germans did not go along with Russells plan : they knew the IRA were "nicht gut" in military terms.

No he didn't he was looking for aid not for an invasion
Stop use your common sense why would someone look to rid one occupier by replacing it with another it does not stand up to scrutiny

true wrote:

After WW2, you say it is debatable that it led to a free europe , but it was a hell of a lot freer at the end of the war than in 1939 / 1940, thanks to the UK, US and lots of other nations
not for eastern europe


To put things in context, I earlier said "Sinn Fein being involved in a statue to honour Russell is an insult to the 12000 Irish men , from North and South, who went to fight Nazism, so Europe and us can be free. ( Do'nt tell me you are not free )". Cdebru said its freedom is debateable.
We were talking about the morality of fighting Nazism, ( instead of collaborating with them like Russell ) : I think it fair to say Europe was a lot freer with the UK, US and other allies fighting Nazism than if the world lay down before Nazism. As regards your snide little comment about eastern Europe , The UK and US played their part in the cold war (again without Irelands help ) and now do you accept Europe is free ?

poland for example was not freer than it had been prior to the german and soviet invasion
what is snide about pointing out the situation that existed in eastern europe

cdebru

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Sean Russell still getting brought into all available discussions?

An interesting piece I read in the (Glasgow) Herald today.

CIA forced to reveal files on cold war links with ex-Nazis

yes of course we can expect maureen potters grave to be attacked next
she performed as a child in front of hitler

poneill

He must not be afraid !

monument

true wrote:

Nobody , except yourself now, said or suggested it to be a Utopia. However, judging by the number of immigrants / refugees from all over the world now coming to Ireland and Britain, perhaps it is a Utopia, at least to them.

The point is , there is no excuse for a party in the 21st century Europe having a private illegial army.

What is so different in the last century that has changed in less then four years?

cdebru

poneill wrote:

He must not be afraid !

and that's an order

true

What do you mean " he must not be afraid " ?

What is so different in the last century that has changed in less then four years?
Nothing, it is equally true that five or six or seven or eight or ten years ago there was no excuse for a party in western Europe having a private illegial army. We are talking about progress for the future, that is why it was said "there is no excuse for a party in the 21st century Europe having a private illegial army."


As regards the comment "yes of course we can expect maureen potters grave to be attacked next ,she performed as a child in front of hitler" dont be stupid. There is a big difference between the actions of an IRA terrorist and Nazi callaborator who died on a u-boat during the war, and the actions of a child in pre-war Europe.

jman0

AmenToThat wrote:

From my own knowledge(very limited) of republican friends5% who join SF end up in the Provos. This depends on the area though, if an area has a history of staunch republicanism the stats would be higher but in an area where SF is only now making headway and so there is no IRA 'base' for want of a better word no one tends to end up in the IRA

Not that I have any problem with anyone deciding the join the IRA Im just giving you my very very limited personal experiences from what Iv observed.

Lets see: 320,000 SF voters; 5% of which could be IRA members, that makes 16,000 IRA.
My, my that is a fair sized army on this island.

A Dub in Glasgo

Try reading his post again

In his (very limited) experience and knowledge, 5% of SF members go on to join the IRA. You do not become a SF member just because you voted for them.

In my (very limited) experience, that figure is 0%.

jman0

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Try reading his post again

In his (very limited) experience and knowledge, 5% of SF members go on to join the IRA. You do not become a SF member just because you voted for them.

In my (very limited) experience, that figure is 0%.

Where does the 5% number come from? (someones arse?)
I've never seen numbers of SF members publically available.

A Dub in Glasgo

It is pure speculation and guesswork. It all came about because someone here posted that they believed people who joined SF youth ended up progressing to join the IRA.

Post here

jman0

As we all know lately in media everyone is basing SF and the IRA. Certain personaliites within the media and political arena have made a career of it.
But i wonder, to what end does this serve?
Do people believe that if they just insult and verbally abuse Republicans they'll like....just go away?
SF are the largest Nationalist party in NI, there are multiple reasons for this.
Do these Repbulican bashers feel that if the majority of the Nationalist people are politically excluded, disenfranchised, that this will be good for the peace process and the future?

Don't forget that the GFA doesn't mention the IRA once, this Peace Process to them i believe, has become a one-sided "Decommissioning process".
The IRA have 3 times decommissioned arms. How many arms dumps have the Loyalists decommissioned?

I am suspecting that the Unionists, and some British politicians (and obviously the NIO) want their wee Sectarian Apartheid Protestant NI back. And all this SF bashing and moving goal posts and walking out on the Assembly and HMG suspending the institutions at the behest of Unionists(find THAT in the GFA) is all just to further the aim of getting government in NI without having to share power with (the majority of ) Catholics.

jbkenn

jman0 wrote:

As we all know lately in media everyone is basing SF and the IRA. Certain personaliites within the media and political arena have made a career of it.

name one

But i wonder, to what end does this serve?

Enlighten us

Do people believe that if they just insult and verbally abuse Republicans they'll like....just go away?

We wish they would, but unfortunately they wont.

SF are the largest Nationalist party in NI, there are multiple reasons for this.
Do these Repbulican bashers feel that if the majority of the Nationalist people are politically excluded, disenfranchised, that this will be good for the peace process and the future?

Yes they are, and it is high time SF started acting in the interests of their constituents, and not their illegal army

Don't forget that the GFA doesn't mention the IRA once, this Peace Process to them i believe, has become a one-sided "Decommissioning process".
The IRA have 3 times decommissioned arms. How many arms dumps have the Loyalists decommissioned?

Dont know about you, but I voted for the GFA to remove all the guns from the nutters on both sides.

I am suspecting that the Unionists, and some British politicians (and obviously the NIO) want their wee Sectarian Apartheid Protestant NI back. And all this SF bashing and moving goal posts and walking out on the Assembly and HMG suspending the institutions at the behest of Unionists(find THAT in the GFA) is all just to further the aim of getting government in NI without having to share power with (the majority of ) Catholics.

You are entitled to your suspicions, do you honestly believe that has any possibility of happening?, the rest of the world has moved on too far. Lose the Nationalist "martyr syndrome".

jbkenn

jman0

jbkenn wrote:

name one

There are too many to name, don't know where to begin

jbkenn wrote:

Enlighten us

The question was for YOU and your ilk.

jbkenn wrote:

Dont know about you, but I voted for the GFA to remove all the guns from the nutters on both sides.

Maybe you are in the North, but in the 26 counties we didn't vote on the GFA, we voted on a referendum to amend articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution.

jbkenn wrote:

You are entitled to your suspicions, do you honestly believe that has any possibility of happening?, the rest of the world has moved on too far.

Well lets see, i posted it didn't i? I suppose that might mean that i believe it.
What do you think is the logical outcome of current attempts to exclude SF, the largest nationalist party in NI?
A goverment of NI that doesn't share power with the majority of Catholics that's what.
What sort of new terms will the Unionists then define for elected Nationalists to take their seats in the Assembly? Gee the possiblities are endless.
Good times for the (nazi) Orange Order.

jbkenn

jman0 wrote:

There are too many to name, don't know where to begin

In other words, you can't name one.

The question was for YOU and your ilk.

jman0 you don't know my "ilk" at all.

Maybe you are in the North, but in the 26 counties we didn't vote on the GFA, we voted on a referendum to amend articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution.

No, I am in the Republic.

Well lets see, i posted it didn't i? I suppose that might mean that i believe it.
What do you think is the logical outcome of current attempts to exclude SF, the largest nationalist party in NI?

I don't know of any party trying to exclude SF, in fact all the parties have been trying very hard to include them, not their problem, if SF can't wake up and smell the coffee.

A goverment of NI that doesn't share power with the majority of Catholics that's what.
What sort of new terms will the Unionists then define for elected Nationalists to take their seats in the Assembly? Gee the possiblities are endless.
Good times for the (nazi) Orange Order.

I was wondering how long it would take to insult some unionists, "Nazi"? bowler hats and brollies? why not "Klu Klux Klan", or "White Supremacists", same old jaded waffle.

jbkenn

jman0

jbkenn wrote:

In other words, you can't name one.

Connor Cruise O'Brien

jbkenn wrote:

jman0 you don't know my "ilk" at all.

Yes i do, but why don't you answer the question instead of trying to dodge it?

jbkenn wrote:

No, I am in the Republic.

Well i have news for you jbkenn: in the 26 counties we didn't have a referendum on the GFA, what we did have, was a referendum to amend articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Constition. There's a slight difference there, if you can notice it.

jbkenn wrote:

I don't know of any party trying to exclude SF, in fact all the parties have been trying very hard to include them.

UUP, DUP, some Conservatives call for the exclusion of SF, i think some Labour as well.

jbkenn wrote:

I was wondering how long it would take to insult some unionists, "Nazi"? bowler hats and brollies? why not "Klu Klux Klan", or "White Supremacists", same old jaded waffle.

Why not, because the KKK and "White Supremacists" have not been in a position of power like the Nazi's were, and like thier brethren in NI.

jman0

jman0 wrote:

Why not, because the KKK and "White Supremacists" have not been in a position of power like the Nazi's were, and like thier brethren in NI.

I'm curious about this...
Black people were able to go to the same schools,restaurants and washrooms as white people in 1960's Southern U.S states were they??
The KKK dominated society there ensured Black people had the same rights as white did they?
Elected sherrifs there applied the law equally to White as well as black did they?

At least get your facts straight if you are trying to make a point will you...