should i be afraid?

oscarBravo

john_grimm wrote:

Because they had been trying to get rid of the Brits for 700 years. When you think there is no hope of getting rid of them completely wouldn't you have taken anything that tried to shove them even a little further away ?

I know i would have voted for Home Rule if i was in that position.

Unfortunately, what you're doing is taking your 21st-century hindsight and applying it to historical circumstances, and blithely assuming that everyone who voted for Home Rule did so for the same reasons you would have.

john_grimm wrote:

Would you be happy to be a British Citizen Oscar ?

Why wouldn't I be, if I was born one? Again, you assume that there's some sort of intrinsic hereditary function that compels Irish people to want to sever all ties with England, and that anyone born without it is somehow defective.

john_grimm wrote:

The Majority ? If the Majority of Irish people thought they could kick the British out they would have. If there were arms availible for them they would have, if there was a rebellion the majority of Irishmen would have fought.

The majority of Irish people voted for Home Rule. That's a historical fact. You've provided nothing to support your assertion. In fact, when there was a rebellion in 1916, the majority of Irishmen didn't fight.

john_grimm wrote:

My problem with you is your statements about 1916 and the "Majority were happy to remain British citizens".

If you're going to quote me, you ought to have the courtesy to quote me accurately.

john_grimm wrote:

I said Ireland, not the Republic of Ireland.

What you actually said was: "I'm a Republican because i Want an Irish Republic and i want the connection with England gone." You can't even quote yourself accurately.

john_grimm wrote:

No there isn't but there are things which people are willing to risk their lives for.

I have no problem with those people. The ones who disgust me are the ones who are prepared to risk someone else's life for their cause.

john_grimm wrote:

I just made a post this minute that said the majority of Irish people would have forced the Brits out if they knew they could, if there was a large scale rebellion or if there was enough arms to arm them.

The simple fact is that after 700 years of history filled with such rebellions that failed people just didn't believe they could get rid of them.

You keep saying this, but you won't offer a shred of evidence to back it up. Just because it's convenient to believe it don't make it so.

john_grimm wrote:

Any references ? So far you have referenced a book i haven't read and as a neighbour of mine always said, "paper won't refuse ink".

I suggest you read it. If you can prove anything in it to be inaccurate, feel free to do so. The phrase "paper won't refuse ink" is overused as a convenient way to dismiss facts that don't suit you. Frankly, I'll take the word of a scholar like Kee before I'll accept empty Republican slogans.

john_grimm wrote:

What do you achieve by locking him up for a few years ?

You prevent him killing more people.

john_grimm wrote:

The punishment should equal the crime. If someone purposedly goes out and murders someone for no real reason but a selfish motive then he deserves death in return.

How should we punish burglars - by robbing them? Should we rape rapists? Sell drugs to drug pushers? Kneecap kneecappers?

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote:

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I know it is hard to accept this when you would have loved it if the Republic had never been created.

I assume you'll be able to quote the post where I said I would have loved that. Failing that, I assume you'll be apologising - promptly.

Still waiting. On a similar note:

john_grimm wrote:

i just wanted to know why he seemed so anti-Nationalist. Not because of his thoughts on the North but because of his thoughts of this countries history.

You'll have to define anti-Nationalist for me. I'm happy to be living in an independent Ireland. I have no problem with the desire for Nationalists to aspire to a united Ireland.

What I have a problem with is a minority proclaiming their god-given right to use force and justify - now or in the past - the use of force to advance their political agenda in our name.

A Dub in Glasgo

oscarBravo wrote:

Still waiting.

Yes click those fingers and say promptly and it will happen :eek: