Visa amnesty for immigrants

GuanYin

F Fiesta wrote:

I haven't been here long, only saw this thread.

Ah ok. No worries.

Well be nice if you perhaps don't rush into making attacks without having the facts first.

Makes things smoother in the long run.

billy the squid

But your definition of "too much of it" is to allow in anyone who is not from an original 12 EU-state country. Or as someone else said, rich white europeans.

it was me that said that to arcade game and i stand by it.

you want to allow people from america europe and britain, and block muslims and citezens of third world countries from entering this country. most of the people you would like to block are either black or brown.

arcadegame2004

billy the squid wrote:

it was me that said that to arcade game and i stand by it.

you want to allow people from america europe and britain, and block muslims and citezens of third world countries from entering this country. most of the people you would like to block are either black or brown.

I have repeatedly said that I favour Ireland imposing equal immigration controls on the new EU member states from Eastern Europe, and they are white or haven't you noticed. I also wan't strict controls on migration from South America (which is mostly white).

The fact that most people in poorer countries are non-white does not mean that their colour is my reason for wanting tougher restrictions on them. If the US were very poor I would also favour imposing equally strict immigration controls of them (and they are mostly white). I support restrictions on immigration from the developing-world, regardless of colour, because otherwise there will be a brain-drain from their states damaging their health-service e.g. Filipino nurses, and increased racial tensions as cheap labour loses Irish people their jobs.

Denying that people from poorer countries will work for less is denying a fact. Look at the GAM case.

Zombrex

billy the squid wrote:

you want to allow people from america europe and britain, and block muslims and citezens of third world countries from entering this country. most of the people you would like to block are either black or brown.

His rational behind this view is that western europeans are from rich countries and there for don't actually want to come to Ireland. The only people who want to come to Ireland are from Eastern Europe and Africa. And these people are poor. Dirt poor.

Poor people, Arcade believes, are prefectly happy to abondon their native country and homes to come and sponge of our social welfare systems or steal jobs from real Irish people because these poor people will work for far less money than you could possible expect a decent irish person to work for (it would be obscene!)

Notice Western Europeans, even the poor ones, don't want to, so that is fine to let them in because the won't come anyway. And even if they did they would vote for a united ireland unlike the Nigerians.

One small small problem with Arcades theory of course is the simple fact that of the 400,000 non nationals in Ireland on Census day 2002, over 300,000 of them were from either the EU, USA Canada or Austrialia. There were 26,000 (6% of non-nationals) from Africa (all of Africa), and 26,000 from Asia (all of Asia, including China). So that vast vast majority (75%) of non-nationals in Ireland are coming from countries Arcade is perfectly happy to allow into the country. Because, well they share the same "values" as we do, they want a united Ireland, they don't mind letting their children learn Irish, and they certainly don't want an Islamic state of terror.

Arcade if we were actually serious about the "economics" of immigration you would be calling for a ban on immigration from the western EU countries and from the USA, not the other way around. There is no evidence that their is a flood of Africans or Asians coming into the country, but western EU citizens and the USA make up nearly 10% of our population. If it was 300,000 Arabs from Iran you would have hard a heart attack by now.

Care to explain your position with relation to the real figures of our national identity.

F Fiesta

The only people who want to come to Ireland are from Eastern Europe and Africa. And these people are poor. Dirt poor.

Only people that want to come here? Chinese people as well? Are they poor? The Russians I worked with earned multiple times the average wage in their country here, by no means a 'poor' country. They are not coming here because of the so called harsh conditions in their own countries.

GuanYin

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I support restrictions on immigration from the developing-world, regardless of colour, because otherwise there will be a brain-drain from their states

Ok, then why aren't you equally opposed to Irish travelling abroad to work.

Its no secret that one of the biggest concerns for the government in relation to industry growth is that the science and technology higher degree graduates, who the government wants to stay and spearhead the push to transform Ireland into a scientific silicon valley, are all upping and leaving as soon as they graduate. Meaning that all out best graduates go to the big labs in the US, UK and Europe/Australia.

Is this not every bit as bad and if youlove ireland as much as yo do, why don't you oppose this?

arcadegame2004

syke wrote:

Ok, then why aren't you equally opposed to Irish travelling abroad to work.

Its no secret that one of the biggest concerns for the government in relation to industry growth is that the science and technology higher degree graduates, who the government wants to stay and spearhead the push to transform Ireland into a scientific silicon valley, are all upping and leaving as soon as they graduate. Meaning that all out best graduates go to the big labs in the US, UK and Europe/Australia.

Is this not every bit as bad and if youlove ireland as much as yo do, why don't you oppose this?

I think what you are talking about supports what I have said about poorer people migrating to richer countries for economic reasons, something some here (amusingly and bewilderingly) try to deny.

And I have always made it clear that I agree we may need SOME limited immigration to fill vacancies caused by labour shortages. But NO more than are needed! Anyway, can't we find sufficient replacements from the new EU states? Why do we need non-EU migration for this?

I am opposed to the proposal to let non-EU migrants move into whatever job they like, and compete on a cheap-labour basis with Irish people in the labour market for jobs in sectors not experiencing labour shortages.

GuanYin

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I think what you are talking about supports what I have said about poorer people migrating to richer countries for economic reasons, something some here (amusingly and bewilderingly) try to deny.

And I have always made it clear that I agree we may need SOME limited immigration to fill vacancies caused by labour shortages. But NO more than are needed! Anyway, can't we find sufficient replacements from the new EU states? Why do we need non-EU migration for this?

I am opposed to the proposal to let non-EU migrants move into whatever job they like, and compete on a cheap-labour basis with Irish people in the labour market for jobs in sectors not experiencing labour shortages.

I see you quoted my post, but I also see you didn't even make an attempt to answer my question.
If "reseource drain" is a factor in stopping immigrants. Why not stop Irish with ket talents travelling (or as is more likely and legally allowed, stop those who have spent 4-8 years in free education travelling until they repay the state?). Thats more of a threat/drain than any iimmigration issue

SkepticOne

syke wrote:

I see you quoted my post, but I also see you didn't even make an attempt to answer my question.
If "reseource drain" is a factor in stopping immigrants. Why not stop Irish with ket talents travelling (or as is more likely and legally allowed, stop those who have spent 4-8 years in free education travelling until they repay the state?). Thats more of a threat/drain than any iimmigration issue

I think Singapore allows doctors to work abroad for a number of years after qualification to gain experience, but they must return afterwards. Otherwise, they owe the fees to the government. They don't stop travel as such, but make return to the home country a condition of free education. Possibly something along those lines would work here although I don't think it would be politically popular.

MrPudding

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Denying that people from poorer countries will work for less is denying a fact. Look at the GAM case.

That appears to have been a problem with how the contracts were negotiated in the workers home country. Once the problem was pointed out the workers hour rate was increased to match the Irish workers, over €50 per hour, and the back pay that was owed was paid in full. I'm afraid you can't really use this as an example. And you will find it is Gama not GAM. They are a Turkish counpany with an operation here.

MrP

arcadegame2004

I see you quoted my post, but I also see you didn't even make an attempt to answer my question.

I think ScepticOne's post is a good answer.

GuanYin

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I think ScepticOne's post is a good answer.

See, skeptic one didn't answer my question either.

He followed up a second post.

I asked you a direct question.

Why are you avoiding answering it?


I want to hear your answer please.

Frank Grimes

syke wrote:

I want to hear your answer please.

I'm still waiting for him to answer my questions, you'll have to get in line

Zombrex

F Fiesta wrote:

Only people that want to come here? Chinese people as well? Are they poor? The Russians I worked with earned multiple times the average wage in their country here, by no means a 'poor' country. They are not coming here because of the so called harsh conditions in their own countries.

Fiesta that was my point ... the whole paragraph was sarcasim at Arcades views

Zombrex

arcadegame2004 wrote:

And I have always made it clear that I agree we may need SOME limited immigration to fill vacancies caused by labour shortages. But NO more than are needed!

You have never given any evidence that more than is "needed" are actually attempting to come. At the moment we need more immigrants that are actually coming to Ireland.

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Anyway, can't we find sufficient replacements from the new EU states? Why do we need non-EU migration for this?

Whats the difference? You have stated time and time again that immigration will harm our culture and make Irish people strangers in there own country. So why exactly will non-EU people do this but EU (original 12 of course :rolleyes) not do this?

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I am opposed to the proposal to let non-EU migrants move into whatever job they like, and compete on a cheap-labour basis with Irish people in the labour market for jobs in sectors not experiencing labour shortages.

Show us evidence that this is happening please ...

Zombrex

Frank Grimes wrote:

I'm still waiting for him to answer my questions, you'll have to get in line

I stilll want him to answer my question how he can be opposed to the tiny number of immigrants from Africa (6%), Asia(6%) and Eastern-Europe(7%), claiming that we will be over-run and it will damage our culture and national identity, when he is perfectly happy to let in a huge number of Western EU citizens, Americans and Canadians (75%).

His arguments don't stand up, but then again they never really did.

dathi1

I stilll want him to answer my question how he can be opposed to the tiny number of immigrants from Africa (6%), Asia(6%) and Eastern-Europe(7%),

actually its not "tiny"...we are the top 5 EU states for recipients of non EU illegal immigrants (who have passed through other states to get to this state) and we have more Nigerian illegal immigrants per head of population than any other EU state. (who have passed through other states to get to this state)

dathi1

EU Americans and Canadians (75%).

last time I checked most are Legal and are Irish returning. No "special rights" or culture clash there.

MadsL

last time I checked most are Legal and are Irish returning.

Did you count them personally, or would you care to post a source for this so we can all 'check'.

No "special rights" or culture clash there.

So, by you that's OK then. I take it that it is only certain groups you want to restrict in terms of immigration. Is it one rule for Americans and Canadians and another for other nationalities? If so this would strike me as ironic as my American wife was nearly deported last year. There is still no such thing as permanant residency without taking out citizenship. So, my question is what criteria do you think should be applied? Nationality, 'culture', ethnic background?? Or economic 'best fit'...

Do enlighten us.

Zombrex

dathi1 wrote:

actually its not "tiny"...we are the top 5 EU states for recipients of non EU illegal immigrants (who have passed through other states to get to this state) and we have more Nigerian illegal immigrants per head of population than any other EU state. (who have passed through other states to get to this state)

Where are you getting that from? Are you confusing asylum seeker for illegal immigrant by any chance :rolleyes:

Zombrex

dathi1 wrote:

last time I checked most are Legal and are Irish returning. No "special rights" or culture clash there.

Well I am afraid you need to check again. The 2002 Census grouped non-nationals by where they were born

On census day out of the 400,016 non-nationals in Ireland, who were not born here, nearly 75% of them were from either Western EU states, the US, Canada or Austrilia. 6% were from Africa, only 9,225 from Nigeria.

So do you really want to defend Arcades notion that we are or wil be over run by poor third world immigrants, because statistically for Nigerias to out number Irish people (a 400 times increase, something Arcade seems actually worried about) there would also be 9 million American-born non-nationals living in Ireland at that stage. And, hold on to your hats, 73 million English-born non-nationals living in Ireland.

So can you or Arcade tell me again why we should be worrying about Africans and Asias erroding our culture :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Such nonsence

arcadegame2004

On census day out of the 400,016 non-nationals in Ireland, who were not born here, nearly 75% of them were from either Western EU states, the US, Canada or Austrilia. 6% were from Africa, only 9,225 from Nigeria.

So do you really want to defend Arcades notion that we are or wil be over run by poor third world immigrants, because statistically for Nigerias to out number Irish people (a 400 times increase, something Arcade seems actually worried about) there would also be 9 million American-born non-nationals living in Ireland at that stage. And, hold on to your hats, 73 million English-born non-nationals living in Ireland.

But in the meantime, the Government has been handing out 40,000-45,000 non EU national work permits per annum, and 40,000 Eastern Europeans arrived here in the six months since Enlargement. And they are STILL handing the work-permits out! 40,000 per 6 months for 10 years = 80,000 per annum = 800,000 per decade = 2.4 million in 30 years, in time to wreck the UI referendum ....

Frank Grimes

arcadegame2004 wrote:

But in the meantime, the Government has been handing out 40,000-45,000 non EU national work permits per annum, and 40,000 Eastern Europeans arrived here in the six months since Enlargement. And they are STILL handing the work-permits out! 40,000 per 6 months for 10 years = 80,000 per annum = 800,000 per decade = 2.4 million in 30 years, in time to wreck the UI referendum ....

Do you really believe this? (and I don't mean the maths you've just posted before you try to get clever)
Also, someone with a work permit isn't automatically a citizen so how do you propose they'd "wreck" a united Ireland?
Are you going to answer my question on how immigration control will protect us from Islamist terrorists?

arcadegame2004

Also, someone with a work permit isn't automatically a citizen so how do you propose they'd "wreck" a united Ireland?
Are you going to answer my question on how immigration control will protect us from Islamist terrorists?

Well pressure would come from Labour in a possible future FG-Lab (and especially if the Greens are included) to grant them citizenship. Labour are even out of touch with their own supporters (68% of whom voted for the Citizenship referendum), but it seems they are hell bent on opening the floodgates. They are soft on immigration and I hope the public realise that in 2007. Having persused I have now decided that, barring unforeseen events, I will vote to re-elect the current Government, because although they are soft on immigration, they are much less so than the hippies of the Left.

Regarding Islamist terrorists, it is just nonsensical to deny that Islamist terrorism is more common in the Muslim world itself. Therefore restricting immigration from Muslim countries will reduce the risk of the "bad eggs" getting in, even if they are a minority of Muslims.

Frank Grimes

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Therefore restricting immigration from Muslim countries will reduce the risk of the "bad eggs" getting in, even if they are a minority of Muslims.

So basically you're saying that A all Muslims are immigrants, and B we should descriminate against all of them because of the actions of a few.
That would kind of make you xenophobic don't you think?
What about Muslims that are from here, there are Irish Muslims too.
Should we deport them just in case?

Well pressure would come from Labour in a possible future FG-Lab (and especially if the Greens are included) to grant them citizenship.

You should really back that rubbish up with something substantial. I thought you've been told to quit posting your opinion as fact.

Zombrex

arcadegame2004 wrote:

But in the meantime, the Government has been handing out 40,000-45,000 non EU national work permits per annum, and 40,000 Eastern Europeans arrived here in the six months since Enlargement. And they are STILL handing the work-permits out! 40,000 per 6 months for 10 years = 80,000 per annum = 800,000 per decade = 2.4 million in 30 years, in time to wreck the UI referendum ....

That assumes that they all stay, so if we are assuming that the rates continue and that they all stay they we will have close to 9 million Americans living here. Why the f**k then are you complaining about 2.4 million eastern europeans when we will have close to 9 million Americans and god knows how many western europeans/english people living here.

Long before we reach the 2.4 million eastern europeans we will reach 2.4 million Americans or 2.4 million british. You claim not to be racists, yet the idea of being "over run" by Americans or Western Europeans (ie white people) makes you hardly bat an eye lid, yet the idea of a lot less eastern europeans or Africans and you are up in arms calling for tougher immigration control. Care to explain why?

Zombrex

arcadegame2004 wrote:

But in the meantime, the Government has been handing out 40,000-45,000 non EU national work permits per annum, and 40,000 Eastern Europeans arrived here in the six months since Enlargement. And they are STILL handing the work-permits out! 40,000 per 6 months for 10 years = 80,000 per annum = 800,000 per decade = 2.4 million in 30 years, in time to wreck the UI referendum ....

BTW I don't think those figurers are correct, I seem to remember someone calling you on them before. Care to give sources...

Zombrex

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Regarding Islamist terrorists, it is just nonsensical to deny that Islamist terrorism is more common in the Muslim world itself. Therefore restricting immigration from Muslim countries will reduce the risk of the "bad eggs" getting in, even if they are a minority of Muslims.

It is non-sensical to deny that Islamic terrorism is more commonly carried out by muslins :rolleyes:

What is not non-sensical is to deny that terrorism is more commonly carried out by muslims. As far as I know there has never been an Islamic terrorist attack in Ireland, and in the last 100 years there have been over 200 by Christians. Why exactly are we more affraid of Muslims?? :rolleyes:

MadsL

Regarding Islamist terrorists, it is just nonsensical to deny that Islamist terrorism is more common in the Muslim world itself. Therefore restricting immigration from Muslim countries will reduce the risk of the "bad eggs" getting in, even if they are a minority of Muslims.

By far and away the most bizarre twisted statement you have ever made. And that is sayiing something...Let's extend this logic for a moment, if you would ban all nationalities that have terror groups then you would also ban;

Northern Irish - Endless paramilitary groups
Spain - ETA
Puru
Panama
Colombia - ELN
United States - several individual american terrorist acts
Former Yugoslavia
Germany
Costa Rica
Italy - Red Brigade
Chile - UPAM
Kurdistan
Japan
Israel - Kahana Hay
Nigeria
India
Russia
Namibia - UNITA
Greece -Anarchists Attack Team
Thailand - God's Army (Burma)
Sri Lanka - Tamil Tigers
South Africa -PAGAD
Bosnia
Ecuador - FARC
Uganda - LRA
Tajikistan
Guinea
Colombia
Indonesia
Angola
Georgia
Sierra Leone
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Yugoslavia

and more...

http://www.fattyboombatty.com/moreterroristacts.htm

So, what do you want. Ireland to pull a cosy duvet over it's head and only admit the Swiss until all the nasty bad men go way? Aw Diddums.
:rolleyes:

GuanYin

MadsL wrote:

So, what do you want. Ireland to pull a cosy duvet over it's head and only admit the Swiss until all the nasty bad men go way? Aw Diddums.
:rolleyes:

Are you joking?

The Swiss are all multi-cultural enthusiasts. We can't let them in here in case they infect us...