Visa amnesty for immigrants

pete

MadsL wrote:

So, what do you want. Ireland to pull a cosy duvet over it's head and only admit the Swiss until all the nasty bad men go way?

uh oh - looks like we'll have to blacklist them too - http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=3595


i think arcade has me on ignore so he probably won't see this.... seems to ignore all the questions i asked him anyway.

sceptre

Wicknight wrote:

BTW I don't think those figurers are correct

I can't remember whether they're correct but obviously they don't take account of the concept of the renewed work permit, the concept of people going home after their permit expires or the idea that not all that many of the Eastern Europeans want to stay here for the rest of their lives which makes the concept of impending doom on a par with the summer where I added four inches to my height (dammit, I should be eleven feet tall by now (and still growing) based on that projection) but it probably plays well in the darkest of sticks. Obviously I'm not going to bother commenting on the UI referendum coming to a cinema near me soon.

And given that this thread was ostensibly about granting legal status to people who are illegal immigrants, it's not necessarily all that relevant to the topic in any case. Even if it doesn't take account of the idea that these people might breed (knock the figures up a bit for that one).

arcadegame2004

MadsL wrote:

By far and away the most bizarre twisted statement you have ever made. And that is sayiing something...Let's extend this logic for a moment, if you would ban all nationalities that have terror groups then you would also ban;

Northern Irish - Endless paramilitary groups
Spain - ETA
Puru
Panama
Colombia - ELN
United States - several individual american terrorist acts
Former Yugoslavia
Germany
Costa Rica
Italy - Red Brigade
Chile - UPAM
Kurdistan
Japan
Israel - Kahana Hay
Nigeria
India
Russia
Namibia - UNITA
Greece -Anarchists Attack Team
Thailand - God's Army (Burma)
Sri Lanka - Tamil Tigers
South Africa -PAGAD
Bosnia
Ecuador - FARC
Uganda - LRA
Tajikistan
Guinea
Colombia
Indonesia
Angola
Georgia
Sierra Leone
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Yugoslavia

and more...

http://www.fattyboombatty.com/moreterroristacts.htm

So, what do you want. Ireland to pull a cosy duvet over it's head and only admit the Swiss until all the nasty bad men go way? Aw Diddums.
:rolleyes:

While many non-Islamic states have terror groups, 911 plumped new depths and AQ were responsible. This shows that AQ are a special case. Even the IRA and Loyalist terror groups, and ETA never went as far as AQ has. So AQ's Islamist terrorism is a special case in terms of scale. And they draw nearly all of their support from the Muslim world. Hence, Muslim immigration should especially be restricted.

billy the squid

arcadegame2004 wrote:

]Well pressure would come from Labour in a possible future FG-Lab (and especially if the Greens are included) to grant them citizenship. Labour are even out of touch with their own supporters (68% of whom voted for the Citizenship referendum), but it seems they are hell bent on opening the floodgates. They are soft on immigration and I hope the public realise that in 2007. Having persused I have now decided that, barring unforeseen events, I will vote to re-elect the current Government, because although they are soft on immigration, they are much less so than the hippies of the Left.

Thats a lot of ifs there arcadegame2004. The fact of the matter is that the Labour party are not the ones making the policy at the moment. so why are you worried about them so much.

namecalling them as "hippies" isnt doing you any favours either.

Regarding Islamist terrorists, it is just nonsensical to deny that Islamist terrorism is more common in the Muslim world itself. Therefore restricting immigration from Muslim countries will reduce the risk of the "bad eggs" getting in, even if they are a minority of Muslims.

and nationalist terrorism and unionist terrorism are prevelant in the north. which means we should be closing our borders to the white europeans next door to us too. although i doubt that you would find banning whites tasteful.

While many non-Islamic states have terror groups, 911 plumped new depths and AQ were responsible. This shows that AQ are a special case. Even the IRA and Loyalist terror groups, and ETA never went as far as AQ has. So AQ's Islamist terrorism is a special case in terms of scale. And they draw nearly all of their support from the Muslim world. Hence, Muslim immigration should especially be restricted.

Do you realise how little effort went into 9-11. they didnt even use one single bullet or firearm. they used cardboard box cutters. a terrorist group is a terrorist group is a terrorist group.

Between them the groups in the north have killed the same number of people that died in 9-11 if not more.

one thing i forgot to say, the radio of deaths between 9-11 and Omagh was 100:1. do you think that the families of the omagh bombing went through 1 percent of the grief the famiilies of 9-11 went through. 9 11 was a sinister act, but just because fewer people died does not make the act less evil. and it does not make the terrorists who did it any nicer.

MadsL

Muslim immigration should especially be restricted.

Regardless of sect? Sunni or Shia? Or don't you care because they are "all the same islamo-facists"?

Cop on to yourself will ya.

pete

arcadegame2004 wrote:

While many non-Islamic states have terror groups, 911 plumped new depths and AQ were responsible. This shows that AQ are a special case. Even the IRA and Loyalist terror groups, and ETA never went as far as AQ has. So AQ's Islamist terrorism is a special case in terms of scale. And they draw nearly all of their support from the Muslim world. Hence, Muslim immigration should especially be restricted.

Scale? You mean because they took out a couple of particularly impressive buildings in one day?

Or "scale" because approx. 3,000 died? "We" managed to get through a similar figure of deaths up north, albeit not quite so efficiently.

Maybe we should restrict travel for nordies trying to cross the border too?

Frank Grimes

arcadegame2004 wrote:

So AQ's Islamist terrorism is a special case in terms of scale. And they draw nearly all of their support from the Muslim world. Hence, Muslim immigration should especially be restricted.

Not all of the Islamic "terrorist" groups have any association with Bin Laden, and if you bother to read up on why Bin Laden has the "support" he does you'll find that the Muslims who might agree with some of the things he says do not agree the methods.
The vast majority of the "terrorist" groups in the Islamic world are actually targeting the governments in their countries (which is what Bin Laden etc. wanted to use the Afghan camps to train the people for initially, not some global "jihad" against our "freedoms"), or else fighting occupation in their home countries e.g. Hamas, Hezbollah, the Chechen groups, the Saudi groups.
If I was use an example of Jewish terrorist groups in Palestine (they do exist too) as a reason why we should limit Jewish immigration I've no doubt you'd be screaming anti Semitism at me.
Also, you have a link in your signature to human rights watch in Chechnya. The Russians just view them all as Islamist terrorists and see that as their ticket to massacre them at will, bit hypocritical of you to lecture me about the "dangers" we face form Muslims don't you think, even more so due to the fact that if any Chechens tried to claim asylum to here to get away from that you'd be the first at the airport screaming "send them home".
Cop on to yourself.
There is no "global conspiracy" against us, the vast majority of Muslim people are just regular people. Some are religious, some aren't. Unfortunately some of those people take their beliefs to extremes. There's good and bad in every walk of life, it just seems to me that people like you believe without question what's fed to you by the media and as a result you seem no harm in wanting to discriminate against 1/5th of the world's population.
I've said again and again too that it not solely an immigrant religion either but you seem to ignore that too.

I'm sure you've no interest but maybe others do, some good books (IMHO) to read on this topic are:

Al-Qaeda: The True Story of Radical Islam by Jason Burke

The Islamic Threat: Myth or Reality? by John L. Esposito

Covering Islam: How the Media and the Experts Determine How We See the Rest of the World by Edward W. Said

gandalf

arcadegame2004 wrote:

But in the meantime, the Government has been handing out 40,000-45,000 non EU national work permits per annum, and 40,000 Eastern Europeans arrived here in the six months since Enlargement. And they are STILL handing the work-permits out! 40,000 per 6 months for 10 years = 80,000 per annum = 800,000 per decade = 2.4 million in 30 years, in time to wreck the UI referendum ....

OK I want you to reference this one. If I do not see a reputable and verifyable reference by this evening you are banned!

pete

gandalf wrote:

OK I want you to reference this one. If I do not see a reputable and verifyable reference by this evening you are banned!

Can we get a date for the 2035 referendum too, please?

gandalf

Arcadegame2004 banned from Politics for 2 weeks.

MadsL

Arcadegame2004 banned from Politics for 2 weeks.

OMG! What WILL we talk about. :rolleyes:

(applause for gandalf)

Teneka

So this is what happens to someone with opposing views to your PC ones?

GuanYin

Teneka wrote:

So this is what happens to someone with opposing views to your PC ones?

No, this is what happens when someone posts propaganda and doesn't engage in the debate.

If he had of supplied the facts and sources like he was asked of the past 6 months he wouldn't be banned.

I don't see the problem. If what he say sis true, he should be able to provide references. Why the reluctance.

gandalf

Teneka wrote:

So this is what happens to someone with opposing views to your PC ones?

No its what happens when you spout statistics and figures for months without backing them up after numerous requests and warnings.

Now get back in your box or you will be following him.

Teneka

Now get back in your box or you will be following him

What sort of pathetic statement is that? Any need for it?

Trying to impress some girl on the net or something?

gandalf

Ok then join him, your banned for 2 weeks as well.

Teneka

Eh,


How come?

gandalf

PM sent !

Zombrex

LOL ... it always amuses me when someone blantently insults a mod and then is surprised when they are banned

Anyway, the reason Arcadegame2004 couldn't back up his statements is because they are made up. From the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment Statistical Tables and Company Listings for the Work Permits Section webpage -

Permits Issued by Nationality: 1 January – 31 December 2004

New Permits Issued - 10,020
Renewed - 23,246


Permits Issued by Nationality: 1 January – 31 December 2003
New Permits Issued - 21,965
Renewed - 25,039

As you can see newly issued work permits fell by almost 50% in 2004.

These are for the entire work permit applications from all countries. As for the number from the new EU states? In all of 2004 only 2,735 were given to workers from the new EU.

Poker_Peter

Your link isn't working Wicknight. Wonder will you get banned for that?

Teacher's pet!

GuanYin

http://www.entemp.ie/labour/workpermits/statistics.htm

If you bothered you could fix the link yourself.

Zombrex

Poker_Peter wrote:

Your link isn't working Wicknight. Wonder will you get banned for that?

Teacher's pet!

Think of me more as teacher's well trained monkey boy

Actually I was responding because it was my statistics that Arcade was challanging with his made up ones, so I felt an obligation to point out that his statistics were flawed. Otherwise some people on this thread might think that he was banned for disagreeing with my left-ish, PC view, where as instead he was banned for spouting statistics that had no source and were wrong to begin with.

Basically I did it to stop this crap -

Teneka wrote:

So this is what happens to someone with opposing views to your PC ones?

dathi1

Since the title of the thread is Visa Amnesty for Immigrants....

I would suggest no visa "amnesty" for people who entered the country illegally from other gateway states past or present. I happen to agree with Arcade's view on a our right to keep check on our borders and not allow asylum shoppers access. <opinion> I may be right or wrong but I have a Feeling that most ordinary people would agree with me on this. Unlike Britain we haven't progressed on the immigration debate as to take public polls on the subject.</opinion>

as for new EU member states
some 40,000 citizens of the 10 new EU member states have moved to the country since May 1 last year, including 19,000 Poles. Ahearn is delighted
I've changed my opinion slightly on this.....but I think there should be a cut off point at 50,000. I think IBEC quota was at least that amount to fill the Jobs market. Somehow I think the PDs would go for the flood the market option. IBEC's dream.

F Fiesta

"The decision was the right one to make. We have had a large increase in Polish people who have settled in Ireland, where they are working hard"

The effect of the decision will be seen in the long run, having a large increase of Polish people (or any) settling in Ireland cannot be a good thing for a country which is losing its national identity.


Having people like Berti involved will only increase multiculturalism, something I am against.

GuanYin

F Fiesta wrote:

"The decision was the right one to make. We have had a large increase in Polish people who have settled in Ireland, where they are working hard"

The effect of the decision will be seen in the long run, having a large increase of Polish people (or any) settling in Ireland cannot be a good thing for a country which is losing its national identity.


Having people like Berti involved will only increase multiculturalism, something I am against.

Ok, why are you against multi-culturism? Is it a personal thing or do you believe there is some underlying problem?

If so what?

Can you explain how we are losing are national identity? It doesn't seem like it to me. Any way to prove this?

F Fiesta

Personal thing/Problem.

Can you explain how we are losing are national identity? It doesn't seem like it to me.

It doesn't seem like it to you, it does to me.

How many people speak Irish in Dublin? How many speak a language such as, Chinese? There's a considerable difference. Would it bother you that the majority of Irish people could speak French and not Irish?

What's national identity for you?

pete

F Fiesta wrote:

How many people speak Irish in Dublin? How many speak a language such as, Chinese? There's a considerable difference.

You're the one making the assertion (re: loss of national identity),so why don't you tell us what the figures are?

Would it bother you that the majority of Irish people could speak French and not Irish?

Can they? Should it? Does it / would it bother you? Why?

What's national identity for you?

What's it to you? You're the one saying it's being "lost", after all.

When you're finished with those, why not explain how exactly chinese people are preventing the indiginous Dubliners learning / speaking Irish. Thanks.

F Fiesta

You're the one making the assertion (re: loss of national identity),so why don't you tell us what the figures are?

Can you put a figure on 'national identity'? From my experience, I haven't heard a conversation in Irish in Dublin, ever.

Can they? Should it? Does it / would it bother you? Why?

Once again, from my own experience, the number of people that remember elements of the French language is much greater than the people who can speak Irish on the same scale.

Should it? What sort of question is that. I put the question to YOU.

What's it to you? You're the one saying it's being "lost", after all.

Em, I was replying to the other poster in relation to his comment 'it doesn't seem like it to me'.

GuanYin

F Fiesta wrote:

Personal thing/Problem.

Well thats fair enough, but your prejudice is not really condusive to political debate now is it?

How many people speak Irish in Dublin? How many speak a language such as, Chinese? There's a considerable difference. Would it bother you that the majority of Irish people could speak French and not Irish?

What's national identity for you?

Firstly, people not speaking Irish has nothing to do with multi-culturism. Thats been the way for two decades now at least and its a bit of a rich to go around and say keep johnny foreigner out because we can't be bothered to speak out own language. It won't change anything. I'd wager more people speak a higher level of French and German than Irish. By your argument we should ban the teaching of these languages in school, or only allow higher level French and German to students who do well in Irish.

I speak Irish fluently and I speak Chinese, I go to Irish language bars at least once a month (often more) and I enjoy both sides of the coin. Or national identity is there for us to embrace if we want it. IF you don't, its your problem, not anyone elses fault.

pete

F Fiesta wrote:

Can you put a figure on 'national identity'?

I didn't ask you to. I asked you for figures to support the statement:

How many people speak Irish in Dublin? How many speak a language such as, Chinese? There's a considerable difference.

Ah but then you stated:

From my experience, I haven't heard a conversation in Irish in Dublin, ever.

So in other words, you don't know how many speak Irish or how many speak Chinese, and have absolutely no reason to claim that there's a "considerable difference".

Now, don't get me wrong - there very well may be a "considerable difference". It really wouldn't bother me either way, but I'd like to think people were basing their arguments on something a little more firm than their own prejudices.

Once again, from my own experience, the number of people that remember elements of the French language is much greater than the people who can speak Irish on the same scale.

And my response is a simple "So what?"

Should it? What sort of question is that. I put the question to YOU.

And i'm trying to find out why.

Em, I was replying to the other poster in relation to his comment 'it doesn't seem like it to me'.

And i was asking you a separate, related question. It's not that complicated - just asking you to clarify what it is you mean by "national identity".

ps you seem to have missed the bit of my post where i asked you "... how exactly chinese people are preventing the indiginous Dubliners learning / speaking Irish."