Gaeilge Fanaticism in YOUR Trinity Student Union

Kappar

ApeXaviour wrote:

Not donegal.. derry. Don't eu students still have to pay fees? I know it's not nearly the same amount as non-eu but I still thought they did.

No I don;t think they have to pay fees, I think it's about non-discrimination on basis of nationality.

Agent Smith

jesus kapper, where have you been?

Kappar

agent smith wrote:

jesus kapper, where have you been?

Wher have I been? I have been here, Covertly watching and conspiring. I haven't posted a lot but have been reading.

Agent Smith

ahh a secret voyer....

Kappar

agent smith wrote:

ahh a secret voyer....

The best type

Kevin_rc_ie

Yeah, in terms of fees, all EU students are treated the same.

Agent Smith

dirty and smell?

DrIndy

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Yeah, in terms of fees, all EU students are treated the same.

All EU students pay "EU Fees" in all universities in the EU. Because of the fee remission scheme brought in by Pat Rabbitte when Education minister during the rainbow coalition, that is exempt too.

You need to be "ordinarily resident" in the EU for 3 years before you get free fees, hence Irish citizens that live (for example) in the US do not qualify.

I went to secondary school in donegal.

We all pay the registration "charge" even though there is a fee remission scheme as a "charge" is not "fees" - its a fudge and hence the justifiable reaction to its recent hikes. Another form of stealth charges....

Time Magazine

Darth Bobo wrote:

how about the fact we were born in ireland? that not enuf?

Haha no, actually. Feckin' dirty referendum. I can't believe 80% of the electorate supported a motion that was based on a provisional ruling under the circumstances of no financial burden and with no figure for these actual "abuses".

</rant>

Time Magazine

John2 wrote:

Logical eh? I got over 500 points in the leaving and I barely passed ordinary level Irish. I don't see how the number of points you get in the leaving has anything to do with your ability to speak Irish. You can't use the leaving to prove anything because it's a joke of a system.

That's anectodal. I never said there was a direct correlation between how good you are at Irish and your Leaving Cert point. But Irish is mandatory and TCD has the highest points in the country. I think the link is pretty obvious.

I know people get 50,000 points and do 17 honours subjects and get a D2 in pass Irish but my point was that there is surely a higher proportion on people with the language in the "higher-achieving" (I know that sounds obnoxious but I couldn't come up with a euphemism) institutions than in the general population.

And I know the LC is a joke, but it's a joke that makes a lot of people learn Irish.

Nietzschean

umm surely by the quick straw poll there we just disproved that? irish isn't required for trinity anyway, its considered a foreign language.............

Time Magazine

Darth Bobo wrote:

Just because its in the constitution doesn't make it right.

It might be our first language cause its great for tourism or some people just like the idea, but realistically its just silly at this point. As a nation english is the main language of what 98% of people probally, it hardly seems even logical that we call irish our first language when clearly its just something forced on kids in school. It may have been viewed as some sort of anti-english thing back in the day and great as a result, but like it or not the english invading us constantly n making us learn english has done us alot of good financially speaking now...if irish was our main language moving about the world for jobs and so on would be a much tougher task. Globalisation has one, irish is dead, lets all just get used to it.

I don't think Dev had tourism in mind when he wrote the constitution. I don't agree with you that it's dead, in fact I resent that. Yes, I know that it's weak and that it could well die, but it's far from dead. It has a tv station, a radio station, at least 3 newspapers and loads of magazines. A large proportion of the nation still cherish it (although I accept that it's a minority and that the education system is ****e) and, as it stands, everyone has to come out of our education system with a few words.

It was seen as an anti-English thing in 1936, but so was Irish culture. Although you have the SF/IRA/Nazi scum that are still that (and worse), Irish culture has evolved. I know it's not completely revolutionised, but it is different. Take me, as an example. I despise SF and all that ****, but I'd consider myself a nationalist (in the literal sense and the political sense). I am kinda crap at Irish academically (delighted at a B3 in the LC) but I do occasionally speak Irish with my girlfriend and my sister goes by her Irish name. I'm by no means fanatical, but I don't want the language to die.

And yes, I agree having English as our main language is financially prudent. I'm not calling on us to all go back to the 1830's. Nor is this SU thing, by the looks of it. Globalization will never be beaten, but it's not going to wipe individual cultures aside.

Having Irish as our "first" language has no negative effects (unless you're against the spending on signs) whereas it does cherish the language, if only for those of us who want it.

Time Magazine

Darth Bobo wrote:

umm surely by the quick straw poll there we just disproved that? irish isn't required for trinity anyway, its considered a foreign language.............

You didn't disprove it, far from it. I guarantee if a survey is done of the Irish population of the college with the question "An dtuigeann tú an teanga seo?" you'll get a good 70% nodding. Or at least saying "'Sea"!

Nietzschean

Angry Banana wrote:

You didn't disprove it, far from it. I guarantee if a survey is done of the Irish population of the college with the question "An dtuigeann tú an teanga seo?" you'll get a good 70% nodding. Or at least saying "'Sea"!

and if we rephrased that into french we could get 50% knowing what it ment. and no ones forced to learn that.

Nietzschean

Angry Banana wrote:

It has a tv station, a radio station, at least 3 newspapers and loads of magazines.

And ahem how many of these would exist without state funding? another question i might pose except for the fact tg4 show's the best films out of our terrestial tv stations(in english n all..)

A large proportion of the nation still cherish it (although I accept that it's a minority and that the education system is ****e) and, as it stands, everyone has to come out of our education system with a few words.

so you accept then thats its a minority imposing its view on the majority? hardly seems fair in a demoracy...

Take me, as an example. I despise SF and all that ****,

SF are the politcal arm of a well terrorist faction, would hardly be classed as nationalism if u did support them...

but I'd consider myself a nationalist (in the literal sense and the political sense). I am kinda crap at Irish academically (delighted at a B3 in the LC) but I do occasionally speak Irish with my girlfriend and my sister goes by her Irish name. I'm by no means fanatical, but I don't want the language to die.

you nearly sound like an american tourist talking about their irish roots, its just not functional anymore, should be removed from main stream education at the very least and left as something optional like latin....

Globalization will never be beaten, but it's not going to wipe individual cultures aside.

it really only has had 15 - 20 years of proper jobbie on the cultures of different countries, give it time.....

Having Irish as our "first" language has no negative effects

Umm apart from just seeming blatantly illogcal, be no different than us saying we'll have russian as our first language as far as i'm concerned. Its not so it shouldn't be there, how about some other title than first? because its not that... national/historiacal or something..

(unless you're against the spending on signs)

Now that u mention it i am, waste of money to see it on all these new roads, millions upon millions poured down the drain.

whereas it does cherish the language, if only for those of us who want it.

good thing its a democracy then, should be able to get rid of it all, u can cherish it in the old fashioned way, i dunno read a book in irish? watch some buli buli re-runs? but no point in sucking up millions of the budget.

Time Magazine

We're not in France. Far more people in this country have a deep respect for Irish than French.

And French is in not under threat. Irish is. And we all love supporting the underdog .

Nietzschean

Angry Banana wrote:

We're not in France. Far more people in this country have a deep respect for Irish than French.

And French is in not under threat. Irish is. And we all love supporting the underdog .

your point with that was though if i recall that 70% of people would understand it? after 10 years of compulsary education in a subject one would hope that most people would have picked up something so basic. Where as i was pointing out that of there own accord people are more interested to go learn french. Don't think its got alot to do with respect now in fairness, we're forced to learn one and yet only a margnially higher % of the population would actually understand that phrase by your recon'n for irish and mine for french.

Agent Smith

Angry Banana wrote:

And we all love supporting the underdog .

because its the underdog that needs you...

Crash

G'wan Ireland!

combs

To the original poster: If you want to do something useful to promote Irish get it added to Babelfish or set up your own Babelfish-style translation service. And, get this, it has to be free to use. None of that profiteering by the 'promotion' of the Irish language like what goes on in the Gaeltacht.

Time Magazine

Right I think I've only got about two minutes to reply to this so to those of you who say you need a majority (as in more than 50% of the population) to get anything achieved (recognition, funding) in a democracy:

1. There goes our government
2. And our President
3. And who wants funding for Jazz?
4. I'm sure less than half the state are happy with the funding colleges get
5. Ah feck St. Vincent de Paul, there's about 7 in that whole organisation

John

Angry Banana wrote:

Right I think I've only got about two minutes to reply to this so to those of you who say you need a majority (as in more than 50% of the population) to get anything achieved (recognition, funding) in a democracy:

1. There goes our government
2. And our President
3. And who wants funding for Jazz?
4. I'm sure less than half the state are happy with the funding colleges get
5. Ah feck St. Vincent de Paul, there's about 7 in that whole organisation

1. Good, they're all scum****s.
2. Oh no, the gaping political void that will ensue!
3. I do, it's recognised in more countries than Irish.
4. Which is why the money and resources spent on printing out every government document in Irish as well as English and roadsigns could be spent on the likes of education in areas of use to the country (doctors anyone?).
5. Yes, feck them.

I believe Irish is dead. "Modern" Irish is just Gaelasized pigeon English, excuse me while I hail a "tacsaí". It has been stunted by years of imperialism and it's time to let go. Let people speak it if they feel the need but in the long run, the hours and money spent teaching kids Irish when most of them won't ever use it let alone need it is money down the drain.

Pet

I think that Irish is on the way out, but with a decent plan, it can be resurrected. The main problem with it is the way it's taught in schools. Nobody wants to learn Irish poetry and completely irrelevant "literature". If the focus was on speaking and listening to irish rather than writing, it could easily be revived.

Both my parents came from the gaeltacht, I had my name set down on my passport in Irish, and I'd consider myself a nationalist, but that still didn't save me from hating irish for the LC. It wasn't the language, it was the dreadful, archaic course. I struggled with HL for 2 years, and only decided on the day to drop down to OL. And I know loads of people who did the same. If the government got a kick up the arse and made the course relevant and modern, then there wouldn't be such disdain for the language. And seeing as the language is integral to many parts of our culture, then it'd be stupid to lose it.

simu

In practical terms, "initiating contact in Irish" probably will be restricted to "A chara" at the start of letters - nice but tokenistic. Actually, I think that it would be better if those members of admin staff who are able and willing to do business in Irish had little cards by their desks or some other signal so that students who want to speak Irish would know whether it was possible to do so or not. Usually, when you're dealing with admin staff, you wouldn't bother getting all personal and asking them if they speak Irish but if you knew they did, you could start speaking to them in Irish straight away with no hassle.

"Modern" Irish is just Gaelasized pigeon English, excuse me while I hail a "tacsaí".

Like just about every language on the planet, it has borrowed many words from English in recent years but there's a lot more to it than those borrowings.

Pet

simu wrote:

In practical terms, "initiating contact in Irish" probably will be restricted to "A chara" at the start of letters - nice but tokenistic. Actually, I think that it would be better if those members of admin staff who are able and willing to do business in Irish had little cards by their desks or some other signal so that students who want to speak Irish would know whether it was possible to do so or not. Usually, when you're dealing with admin staff, you wouldn't bother getting all personal and asking them if they speak Irish but if you knew they did, you could start speaking to them in Irish straight away with no hassle.



Like just about every language on the planet, it has borrowed many words from English in recent years but there's a lot more to it than those borrowings.

Yeah. A lot of the more modern vocabulary is borrowed from English, but there's a whole world of nathanna and similes and such which you won't find anywhere else. There's also the fact that it's tied into our geography, music, art and literature in a very important way.

foxybrowne

SU election advertising is also strictly prohibited (referenda topics are okay).

The fact is that English is our primary language, and I think the SU should be helping students to improve that, rather then forcing a dead language upon us.

I also scored 500+ and got a C3 in OL Irish

I think that this amendment is a last ditch effore for a couple of SU officers to get their name into the TCD history books and to add a few extra lines onto their CV

We, the students, should not accept being used in such a manner.

Agent Smith

hardly dead is it? it has news papers, a radio station and a tv channel

Crash

I always see people handing out flyers with che guevaras picture on it. and posters, t-shirts. and he had a movie. not exactly dead is he?

passive

I always see people handing out flyers with che guevaras picture on it. and posters, t-shirts. and he had a movie. not exactly dead is he?

Game, set and match.

I kinda like Irish on some level. It's vaguely nice and has novelty value.. that's the extent of my positive feelings on the language. It most definitely should not be compulsary for the leaving cert or falsely titled the "first" language of this state. The idea that our "irishness" is in any way defined by or dependant on the Irish language is completely inane and baseless...

now i'm going to go cram for my Irish mock and hope against hope that I don't fail. And perhaps cry... Yes... a good cry wouldn't hurt.

Slán -_-'