England-Holland (will contain scores)

therecklessone

I settled for the England match tonight because I don't have Sky.



What a wasted opportunity for by SGE. Downing and Johnson were given no time to impress, AJ pushed out wide right when his strengths all lie in the box. It was a thoroughly pointless 90 minutes of football for the England team, is it any wonder club managers are so reluctant to release players for friendlies?

Johnny_the_fox

therecklessone wrote:

I settled for the England match tonight because I don't have Sky.



What a wasted opportunity for by SGE. Downing and Johnson were given no time to impress, AJ pushed out wide right when his strengths all lie in the box.

I think sven was trying to copy the Chelsea Formation.. e.g a flexible 4-3-3/ 4-5-1..

poor game.

Cianan2

I agree,SGE made a bad choice by picking the 4-3-3 route. Didnt work at all. Castelaan really impressed me,looks like he has potential(ive never heard of him) Absolute class on the right,put Cole through alot of trouble.

Jivin Turkey

Totally ridiculous by SGE. I feel sorry for Downing and Johnsen. I could understand his reasoning to give Owen a full game seeing as he is not playing, but I really thought he should have given SWP and Downing starts wide, with AJ up front with Owen.

therecklessone

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

I think sven was trying to copy the Chelsea Formation.. e.g a flexible 4-3-3/ 4-5-1..

poor game.

And made a complete boll*x of it.

Do you think Mourinho would have had Johnson out on the wing? Le Saux, Hansen, and Redknapp were rightly indignant at the wasted opportunity tonight. What did Redknapp say? "Too many square pegs and round holes"?

Jol was funny though, cracking manager and definitely the new Ranieri.

A Dub in Glasgo

SGE must be the most over-rated international manager ever. I cannot believe the English FA were stupid enough to give him a contract like the one he is on.

Slash/ED

They paniced into giving SGE a massive contract and now the contract is too big for them to be able to afford to sack him, so he'll stick around for some while yet.

Johnny_the_fox

therecklessone wrote:

And made a complete boll*x of it.

It wouldnt be the first time... remember the diamond formation, and the players got him to change it.

The big problem with England is they have alot of good players all (or wanting to play the) same position - from tonights game.

> Beckham has a bad habit of coming inside in both international and domestic football, as a result pushes the midfield to close in the central and leaves a gap down the right.
> Gerrard playing for england is seen as the defensive midfield, but for Liverpool he is seen as an attacking midfielder (his best position). What would you do?
> Lampard seen as an attacking midfielder and his best position... (was subbed at half time for Hargreaves... in a effort to get Gerrard in the Game??)

> Wright-Phillips wasted up front.. but Beckham plays in his position... not Englands answer to the left wing..

have given SWP and Downing starts wide

or at least half time.. taken off Lampard/Beckham for Hargreaves/Downing..
I know Hargreaves is the best footballer in the world - but it would of freed up Gerrard in Midfield.



so what can he do?

PHB

Do what you;re meant to do, pick a ****ing team you wuss.
This is exactly why i think SGE ie a bad manager, he doesn't have the balls to drp Lampard or Gerrard.

He should be playing a flat 4-4-2

Choose between RIo Terry and Campbell at the center back, the first and the last
Choose Hargreaves or Gerrard fort eh def midfielder, the former preperably
Choose between Lampard or Gerrard for the off midfielder, the latter
Tell beckham to stay out on the right, thats your job, and he'll do it.
Put SWP or Downing into the left winger position, the former
Choose between Owen Johnson and Rooney, the first and the last preperably

in conclusion, he needs to grow some balls

Chong

From a dutch perspective I found Romeo Castelen to be very promising, last night.

Villain

Another poor performance by an over rated team, with a very over rated manager. Andy Johnson must have felt so frustrated having to make his debut out on the right, SGE definitely got it wrong, but having said that a freindly match is the time to get it wrong.

They have an easy group so will qualify without any problems but can't see them going too well in Germany if this form continues.

The Rooster

Sven couldnt believe it when Garth Crooks questioned him about Johnson. Sven obviously thought the important thing was to give someone from Crystal Palace a cap, rather than seeing if Andrew Johnson really is a viable for the England team.

He said "I suppose I could have changed formation to play Johnson in his best position, but I decided I wanted to keep the same formation".

So after seeing an hour of this new formation, with pretty much his first choice team apart from the CBs, he thought it was more worthwhile to see the same formation for the last 30 minutes with someone playing on the right, who would never ever be played in that posititon in a competive game - rather than checking out for 30 minutes how an Owen-Johnson partnership might work.

Dunphy has been calling Sven a spoofer from day 1. And he's dead right. I'm glad I'm not an England or Palace supporter, because I'd be livid

Big Nelly

The Rooster wrote:

He said "I suppose I could have changed formation to play Johnson in his best position, but I decided I wanted to keep the same formation".

In other words he hasn't a clue what to do! he puts a formation on the pitch and hasn't a clue what to do when he has to change it....last night....Brazil game.....and the list goes on!! idiot!!

therecklessone

Despite public/criticical opinion in England suggesting 2006 may be England's year, I can confidently predict they will win nothing in Germany.

SGE has the ability to get his players to bond as a single unit, but he is bereft of tactical nous. If Beckham can't/won't do the job he is picked to do (wide right) then he shouldn't be picked. Lampard and Gerrard do not work as a CM partnership. Pick one, leave the other on the bench. Take the captaincy from Beckham and give it to a real leader, either Terry or Gerrard.

eirebhoy

Is Butt still injured? He's the best English player I can think of in his position and needs to start. Unless they're going to play with 5 in midfield they'd have to drop Lampard.

The Rooster

Butt's just back from injury and has been on the bench for the last 2 Newcastle games.

I wonder what Rio would be like as a defensive central midfielder, with Sol and Terry behind him. Another square peg perhaps, but might be worth a look.

Boro

AFAIK Rio played as a defensive midfielder when he was younger at West Ham. He was often criticised as being crap at it. Then he moved to the back and became the ball playing CB we know today. He probably could do a job there but remember when Gareth Southgate was played as the DM (against Germany?) by Keegan (i think). It just doesnt work too well.

I think everyone agrees that SGE made an absolute hash of things last night. Why is it that these guys get paid so much money to do a job that even the most tactically inept, sun-reading, spoofer of a football fan could do? Its one of the elementary principles, you pick the players to fit the formation or pick the formation to suit the players - square pegs in round holes do not go.

I feel really sorry for Downing - it would have been a great opportunity for him and SWP if they had been started as wingers. If either one of them went forward, imagine the space left on the other wing to attack, or even through the middle for Gerard/Lampard?

BolBill

The Rooster wrote:

Dunphy has been calling Sven a spoofer from day 1. And he's dead right. I'm glad I'm not an England or Palace supporter, because I'd be livid

Rooster you're spot on (again), SGE is tactically inept (and Im being nice) and has proven it time and time again, they'll never win anything with him in charge. Remember he is the reason that FIFA said no more that 5 Subs in a friendly because he was playing two different teams in each half in the HOPE of finding a solution. Hes completely over rated as a manager and should have been sacked after the Euro 2004 (and not given any extension before that) purely for the Portugal game when they went a goal up after 4 minutes and tried to defend for the next 86.

Long may his reign continue.

mike65

Did'nt see the game (stuck with the Bill and Rotters Club!) the whole
formation farrago could solved in an instant - if Beckham went under a bus...


Mike.

case n basket

If I recall King played defensive midfield for Spurs last season.

................. Robinson ................

Neville ... Ferdinand ... Campbell ... Cole

................... King ..................

........... Gerrard ...... Lampard ........

.......... SWP ............. Rooney........

................... Owen ..................

Worth trying I think. When they lose possession they can assume the above formation, and when they have the ball, Rooney can drift in behind Owen, SWP can float around on either wing, and King can drop into a back 3 allowing Neville and Cole to push forward.

PHB

Chelsea's formation is interesting but its yet to prove itself vs. top class opposition.

Sven should grow some balls, pick a 4-4-2, and just pick a team and do what he was paid to do, make tough choices.

eirebhoy

Very good team case n basket.

Big Ears

eirebhoy wrote:

Very good team case n basket.

I concur , once everyone does there job I can't see any faults . Maybe the fault is not everyone will always be doing their job and if Cole and Neville push up and King doesn't drop they could be caught out , but its certainly a much better system than currently employed by England .

Oh and I would prefer Terry to Ferdinand .

_blank_

Big Ears wrote:

Oh and I would prefer Terry to Ferdinand .

I'd drop Campbell.

Team	P	W	D	L	F	[b]A[/b]	Pts
1	Chelsea	26	20	5	1	49	[b]8[/b]	65
2	Man Utd	26	16	8	2	43	[b]16[/b]	56
3	Arsenal	26	16	6	4	58	[b]30[/b]	54

The Arsenal defence, including Sol Campbell, have been suspect all season.

Terry / Ferdinand is the way they should go.

Big Ears

seansouth wrote:

I'd drop Campbell.

Team	P	W	D	L	F	[b]A[/b]	Pts
1	Chelsea	26	20	5	1	49	[b]8[/b]	65
2	Man Utd	26	16	8	2	43	[b]16[/b]	56
3	Arsenal	26	16	6	4	58	[b]30[/b]	54

The Arsenal defence, including Sol Campbell, have been suspect all season.

Terry / Ferdinand is the way they should go.

Well you're biased , and Campbell isn't Arsenal's only player so its impossible to tell how much of that is down to him .

case n basket

Big Ears wrote:

Well you're biased , and Campbell isn't Arsenal's only player so its impossible to tell how much of that is down to him .

I would have put Terry instead of Campbell also, only Terry has never really replicated his club form at International level, while Campbell and Ferdinand have been consistently outstanding for England for a few years now.

PHB

I think Campbell is the best CB in the world, but hasn't been playing great lately, but its harder to play great when you're not playing with greatness.

Terry has quite a nice back 4 to play with, as does Ferdinand, so its easier to look better.

IMO it should be Campbell and Ferdinand, the latter not for his defensive qualities, where I think Terry might be better, but for his team qualities, leading and being the start of nearly all utd attacks

Of course, perhaps its time to move on, maybe Terry and Rio should start since they might easily be the pairing for the next 5 years