Vegetarian Thesis

Shabadu

I'm currently doing some preliminary research for my thesis. It's probably going to be primarily about the rise of vegetarianism in western pubescent girls aged 11-14. It's going to be partly qualitative and dealing with the gastronomic, societal and emotional reasons that this sector is the fastest growing vegetarian group.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, it's not for the actual dissertations but more to show my tutor that i will be able to find people to interview when I start my primary research.

If you're not a vegetarian teenage girl but you have something to say please do.
(especially if it's to do with menstruation, death, decomposition, flesh, pain or any other sort of tie between life, death and food.)


Man that last sentence sounds so disgusting.

jackie g

hi,

i don't know what sort of your information you are looking for. i was vegetarian from the age of 15 to 28. became vegetarian for all the usual reasons primarily because i didn't like the idea of animals being killed for meat (even though i did like the taste of it) and i saw it as wasteful. i changed back to eating meat at the age of 28 primarily because i was living in a developing country at the time and it felt pretty weird anytime i went to anyone's house to refuse food, in a country where food was pretty insecure. anyhow, after two years of that, when i came home to ireland, i continued eating meat. my partner has a farm and we eat all our own meat and that is for me no problem because i know the animals have had a good free-range natural life. i have a couple of friends who were also vegetarian in the late teens and then in their mid to late twenties became meat eaters - i don't know if this is just my mates or is it significant as we all come from different backgrounds and went back to meat-eating over time. people i have talked to say this happens and despite the increase in vegetarianism, there is a percentage of people who do go back to meat-eating for one reason of another. i think the growth of vegetarianism is to do with health issues but also a disconnection from food production. bets of luck

Blub2k4

Fluffy bunny rabbits are to blame.

simu

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

I'm currently doing some preliminary research for my thesis. It's probably going to be primarily about the rise of vegetarianism in western pubescent girls aged 11-14. It's going to be partly qualitative and dealing with the gastronomic, societal and emotional reasons that this sector is the fastest growing vegetarian group.

Maybe not what you want to hear but most kids who decide to become vegetarians at that age are spolit little brats whose parents should know better than to support their faddish tastes.

(especially if it's to do with menstruation, death, decomposition, flesh, pain or any other sort of tie between life, death and food.)

From an emotional pov, I'd blame all those silly anthropomorphised animals kids, and girls especially, are blasted with plus no understanding of the reality of animal life and of the many uses besides production of food to which humans put animals.

Shabadu

Thanks for the replies guys.

Simu, I shouldn't be asking leading questions, but would you agree with the statement that the further society gets from the realism of animal's lives and deaths the more it starts to attribute emotion to the animal and ignore the animal aspect of our natures?

Doper Than U

Joey Joe Joe, there was a good thread on vegetarianism in After Hours :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=221108&highlight=vegetarian

It is (or rather, food production is) something I care alot about, so I might be able to answer some questions you have...

Blub2k4

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

Thanks for the replies guys.

Simu, I shouldn't be asking leading questions, but would you agree with the statement that the further society gets from the realism of animal's lives and deaths the more it starts to attribute emotion to the animal and ignore the animal aspect of our natures?

I'd think that you're pretty correct in this statement. Vegetarianism is normally the preserve of people who are in a priviliged position to have the choice. I dont eat much meat myself but only because I dont always know where it is coming from and when I have the oppurtunity to eat freshly killed meat I tend to get it then. Food chains have become too long.

Shabadu

Thanks for the link Doper Than You.

Would any of you feel that the more processed and 'un-natural' meat and meat products become the more some people start to empathise with the animal?

Conversly, do you feel that in socities where the life and death of the animal is more open and public people are less likely to be vegetarian (aside from religous taboo)?

Blub2k, could you expand on your comment about the food chain getting too long, do you mean the handling process after the animal's slaughter?

Jackie G, did your friends become vegetarian because they were empathising with the animal? Did they stop for cognitive rather than emotional reasons?

Thank you all so much, really appreciate it.

simu

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

Thanks for the link Doper Than You.

Would any of you feel that the more processed and 'un-natural' meat and meat products become the more some people start to empathise with the animal?

Yeah, it's possible. One set of grandparents had a farm so I had some expreience of animals growing up but it's possible to see how a child who has never been on farm would not be inclined to make a link between the white stuff they see wrapped in polystyrene and plastic in the fridge, the cute charcters based on chickens on TV and real-world live chickens. So, maybe the idea of killing animals for food is more traumatic for them when they reach the age of about 11 when you start thinking about the world in a more grown-up way. I'm not saying that people who have contact with animals don't empathise with them - I'd say many of them do - but they might have a more realistic picture of the animals and find it easier to accept their death. (Similar to the way people who see their parents as idols rather than normal people with flaws like anyone else might have a harder time getting to grips with the death of their parents).

Conversly, do you feel that in socities where the life and death of the animal is more open and public people are less likely to be vegetarian (aside from religous taboo)?

Maybe so but maybe this is more because people probably wouldn't be living in close proximity to animals and if they didn't need them for survival. Anthropomorphism is maybe a luxury for those who have a choice as to how they feed themselves.

Blub2k4

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

Blub2k, could you expand on your comment about the food chain getting too long, do you mean the handling process after the animal's slaughter?

Personally I am bothered by an animal being slaughtered in a foreign country and then all the resources being wasted to get it here. I would rather source meat from someone that I know and who knew and raised the animal that they have killed. Short food chains.
Supersize me has some brilliant stuff on this.

Kingsize

The "being able to afford a Choice "arguement is a load of bollix,there are several very poor countries where a large percentage of the population is vegetarian.people who eat meat usually also eat veg,so wheres the extra expense in being purely vegetarian.
im sure the bunnies have something to do with it for some people though.

Blub2k4

Kingsize wrote:

The "being able to afford a Choice "arguement is a load of bollix,there are several very poor countries where a large percentage of the population is vegetarian.people who eat meat usually also eat veg,so wheres the extra expense in being purely vegetarian.
im sure the bunnies have something to do with it for some people though.

Normally for religious reasons Kingsize, where it is not a religious reason it tends to be middle class white teen girls who are primarily veggie, it is a phenomenon that occurs as people get further than the sole need of survival, i.e. they can choose as a result of wealth.

jackie g

Jackie G, did your friends become vegetarian because they were empathising with the animal? Did they stop for cognitive rather than emotional reasons?

i think my friends mostly became vegetarians as teenagers as a result of reading and seeing tv programmes about factory farming, veal production and other worse case scenarios in terms of food production. there was probably a lot of pity and not wanting to be connected to such food production involved in their choices. at a later stage, when people began eating meat again, i think the reasons for choosing to do so were mixed - certainly more cognitive than emotional. i think your posting has raised a lot of interesting questions about food production and the length of the food chain (sudan red 1 anyone ?!!) . anyway, i am sending you by email a copy of an article i had published recently in local planet newspaper about vegetarianism, reluctant and conscious meat-eating, it might of interest, regards, jackie

Blub2k4

www.rivercottage.net is interesting, Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall is trying to get people to realise that they need to shorten the food chains. I'd love to be in the position he is in with relative self-sufficiency.

Shabadu

I know seeing as this should be research I should be impartial, but I have to say I completely agree with the absolute neccesity to rectify the western system of dealing with meat. Hugh Fearnly's book on meat is fantastic for illustrating this.

We should at least be thankful that we live in Ireland, if you ever read anything about meat production in America you'll scarred for life. E.G: Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser or Food Politics by Marion Nestle.

The skewed view we in the west have twoards meat is loaded with paradoxes. This is particularly noticeable amongst teenage girls.

I believe:

1) we eat too much meat

2) meat mass production should be instantly halted

3) it's possible to develop a symbiotic and rational relationship with animals for slaughter whilst remaining ethical

4) as far as possible, all meat should be organic and free-range

5) animals should be fed correctly, no mass stuffing for muscle (profit) building

6) people should be shown the benefits of including meat in their diet.

Blub2k4

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

I know seeing as this should be research I should be impartial, but I have to say I completely agree with the absolute neccesity to rectify the western system of dealing with meat. Hugh Fearnly's book on meat is fantastic for illustrating this.

We should at least be thankful that we live in Ireland, if you ever read anything about meat production in America you'll scarred for life. E.G: Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser or Food Politics by Marion Nestle.

The skewed view we in the west have twoards meat is loaded with paradoxes. This is particularly noticeable amongst teenage girls.

I believe:

1) we eat too much meat

2) meat mass production should be instantly halted

3) it's possible to develop a symbiotic and rational relationship with animals for slaughter whilst remaining ethical

4) as far as possible, all meat should be organic and free-range

5) animals should be fed correctly, no mass stuffing for muscle (profit) building

6) people should be shown the benefits of including meat in their diet.

I have his cook book and his year book and they are both excellent, I mean to get the meat book at some stage.
Recently I have begun to buy a lot of game as I reckon it is not far from shot to pot so to speak.

Doper Than U

River Cottage is a great program and the website and forum are fantastic. I'm a regular contributor there myself, and very much hope to live the River Cottage life as soon as I get planning permission for a house on my family's land. The Meat Book is simply brilliant. I personally have no problem with vegetarianism or veganism, but I am a proud omnivore myself. I am also an animal lover, I believe strongly in Fearnley-Whittingstalls view that a happy animal gives the best meat. If you buy an animal to raise for meat, it is your duty and obligation to give that animal the best and most secure life possible. They must eat the best food, live in the open air with space to run and play, with company and shelter. I fully intend to do this when raising my own animals for meat.

I think most of the problems with vegetarians today is their ignorance (wilful or otherwise) of food production methods. Dairy is a very cruel industry, wheat and grain production is also very cruel to animals in intensive agriculture today (see the link in my above post for explanations of these). Intensive meat farming is equally as cruel. Organic farming is really the only way to go, but, it may not produce enough food for the world to eat. Certainly vegetarianism won't work for the entire world, as there is not enough viable land for grain/veg growing. Note the use of the word VIABLE. Not all land is good for veg/grain. Animals often do better on the poor quality grazing that is useless for veg growing.


http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050221/full/050221-5.html

This is an article about a study that shows different growth patterns in vegetarian vs meat eating children. I have not read it yet, so I cannot comment.

simu

@ people who are worried about the length of the food chain - this seems to be longer for other foods. I've noticed that the meat they sell in places like Dunne's has the name and address of the farm from which the meat came and that this is usually somewhere in Ireland.

Compare that with fruit & veg coming from South Africa, Israel, etc

Shabadu

True, but then I beleive in buying locally grown seasonal organic veg as well. I'm more concerned with the treatment of the animal before and after slaughter.

Thanks for all the replies; i can at least prove to my lecturer that some people care about my rough area of research!

Blub2k4

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

True, but then I beleive in buying locally grown seasonal organic veg as well. I'm more concerned with the treatment of the animal before and after slaughter.

Thanks for all the replies; i can at least prove to my lecturer that some people care about my rough area of research!

It is very expensive to care what you eat these days though.

simu

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

True, but then I beleive in buying locally grown seasonal organic veg as well. I'm more concerned with the treatment of the animal before and after slaughter.

Thanks for all the replies; i can at least prove to my lecturer that some people care about my rough area of research!

Fair enough but most people don't have the time or money to do that.

Blub2k4

simu wrote:

Fair enough but most people don't have the time or money to do that.

Apparently in a free market we are the people who determine these things, personally I find the failing of free market liberalism is that it is profit that actually steers the system where it should be the market. When companies decide they want to introduce some innovation the reality is that they dont actually listen to the consumer, take GMO as an example, they do that which increases their profits and ignore the consumer unless huge pressure is brought to bear such as through "supersize me" or similar methods.

The message that we need to send out is that something being inexpensive is not the overriding factor when we want to fill our shopping baskets. Problem is they are not listening as far as I see. The myth of the free market liberals.

Doper Than U

Fair enough but most people don't have the time or money to do that

It's cheaper for me to buy good quality veg at my local farmers market (in the people's park in Dun Laoghaire) than in the supermarket. Also, you get what you pay for in the supermarket, i.e. cheap prices = poor quality. That is a fact when it comes to vegetables, fruit and meat. When you think that you end up having to use more produce to make better food because the quality of your ingredients is so bad, it works out cheaper to buy good quality food at a slightly higher price. As for time, well, I can only say that it's quicker at the farmers market because there are no queues.

I think people "think" that they don't have the time or money, but with a little effort, they'd see that the extra few pence is worth it. I can't afford to buy cheaply.

simu

Doper Than U wrote:

It's cheaper for me to buy good quality veg at my local farmers market (in the people's park in Dun Laoghaire) than in the supermarket. Also, you get what you pay for in the supermarket, i.e. cheap prices = poor quality. That is a fact when it comes to vegetables, fruit and meat. When you think that you end up having to use more produce to make better food because the quality of your ingredients is so bad, it works out cheaper to buy good quality food at a slightly higher price. As for time, well, I can only say that it's quicker at the farmers market because there are no queues.

I think people "think" that they don't have the time or money, but with a little effort, they'd see that the extra few pence is worth it. I can't afford to buy cheaply.

Well, anyone know of a farmer's market or some equivalent in Galway? It would also have to be open most days as, due to my work and other commitments, I can't do food shopping at a set time each week.

Doper Than U

There are probably a good few farmers markets. About opening times, that's the catch.. they are generally only on certain days, so it might be difficult for you. This is why it's so important for supermarkets to support local growers with a conscience, rather than just buying in cheap food that's flown thousands of miles. I totally understand the need for convenience, and I hope it will get easier in the next few years to choose local produce. It would make such a difference to our own farmers, as well as our environment, and pockets. I'll have a look around and see if there are any farmers markets in Galway.

Shabadu

simu wrote:

Well, anyone know of a farmer's market or some equivalent in Galway? It would also have to be open most days as, due to my work and other commitments, I can't do food shopping at a set time each week.

Has anyone heard of those organic co-operatives where you pay a few farmers a set amount of money every month and they send you a box of fresh produce every week? Works out quite cheaply apparently, you can choose from 3 box sizes. One of my lecturers is involved with one in Wicklow, she gets loads of veg for her family of five with the large box. I don't think there's one that delivers to me in Dublin City Centre, but there might be one in Galway?

All the veg is seasonal too (obviously).

Doper Than U

I think there is one in Dublin city centre. I think they're based around Templebar or Pearse St (not the farm, but the organiser). Still looking for one in galway. The box schemes are great though.

simu

Some info on farmers' markets in Ireland here: http://www.bordbia.ie/Consumers/Buying_Food/Farmers_Markets/

The Gakway one is only on weekends, though.

spod

Doper Than U wrote:

I think there is one in Dublin city centre. I think they're based around Templebar or Pearse St (not the farm, but the organiser). Still looking for one in galway. The box schemes are great though.

The Dublin Food Co Op is the place off Pearse st - http://www.dublinfoodcoop.com/