Quality of posts on here recently

gandalf

OK this is a quick one. I have noticed recently the amount of niggly, troll-like posts on Soccer has been on the increase. Whereas 6 months ago the mods would only get one or two reported threads every couple of weeks we are now getting them on a daily basis.

If this continues there will be a clamp down and it will be painful for some users on here. I haven't talked to the other mods yet but I am sure they are in agreement with me. We are not here to clear up your messes, you are adults and not children.

If I see one more thread like the "5 Bullets for 4 Premiership Players/Managers" here I will ban the person who starts it permanently from Soccer. It is precisely the standard of posts that appear on Football365 we are trying to avoid.

MrJoeSoap

Apologies

_blank_

Is this thread open to comment?

I am taking it is, seeing as it was left open.

I have a few observations of my own to make, if you don;t mind.

I am not pointing any fingers here.

I have to say I agree with the statement that gandalf made. Although I don't report posts, I have to say some of the tripe being bandied about has become intolerable at times.

Not to the extent it was around this time last year, but it is getting that way.

The sponsoship thing, while it worked for a while, seems to have broken down, with many many people getting sponsored in a seemingly willy-nilly fashion. Perhaps the system needs to be reviewed?

talla

I agree with everything Gandalf has said, things are starting to get very bitchy between posters and there's definitely trolling going on from members that should know better that have been posting in the forum for a while.

p.pete

seansouth wrote:

The sponsoship thing, while it worked for a while, seems to have broken down, with many many people getting sponsored in a seemingly willy-nilly fashion. Perhaps the system needs to be reviewed?

Possibly it needs to be tweaked a little bit but overall I think it's a good system. It's quite a deterrent to sponsoring someone that you're unfamiliar with if they're going to get you banned.

Possibly if there was somewhere obvious where people could see who is currently banned and until when it would serve as more of a visual deterrent - or make the possibility of getting banned seem that little bit more real?

Iago

Personally I think that this problem is being experienced all over boards, we seem to have had an influx of young posters over the last few months and there are ridiculous threads starting up in forums all over the site. It was only a matter of time before it started here. We should all be able to have a bit of banter without dragging down the thread and standards with it.

unfortunately the only solution as far as I can see is a spate of bannings, while this won't bother the muppets (sorry muppet not you) too much at least it should have some bearing on the quality of posts and discussions afterwards. Ban 'em all I say, ban 'em all [size=-12]except me of course[/size]

SteM

I don't know if the mods have given any thought to a thread for each of the teams supported by users that post here here like 'The Man United Thread', 'The Liverpool Thread' etc? They have a similar idea on thedvdforums, basically it keeps talk for each team in the one place. Anyone can post there but it'll mainly be of interest to the teams supporters - a place to post reports, news items etc. Seems to work quite well there.

gimmick

Re Sponsorship:

I think that we should be able to warn others of a troll who is looking for sponsorship. There have been a few 'inductees' recently who have contributed nada to this forum, or any forum they post on.

Also, perhaps the sponsor seeking should have to say who they support, how long, and how often they actively attend football.

Chong

Tbh I have a incident this year wit trolling and I am shamed so apologies there but alot of people snipe its how goes as long its truly not insulting. I also think the soccer access should be limited too many newbies aint good.

p.pete

gimmick wrote:

Also, perhaps the sponsor seeking should have to say who they support, how long, and how often they actively attend football.

And plenty of mud slinging to decide which teams should be considered positive and which negative. As for actively attending football matches I think we're just trying to achieve civility, not exclusivity.

The warning others bit is "possibly" a good idea, maybe being able to have votes against someone as well as votes of endorsement... That could get messy and unworkable however and it needs to be implementable by the mods.

Draupnir

I was expecting this to be a topic saying the standard was good to be honest. There seems to be some really interesting topics popping up lately and some of the discussions have been very good. I just thought Id add that to make sure it wasnt all doom and gloom.

yop

"The warning others bit is "possibly" a good idea, maybe being able to have votes against someone as well as votes of endorsement... That could get messy and unworkable however and it needs to be implementable by the mods."

That could get badly messy, an almost zero tolerance should be implemented handled for a week at a time by the mods, any flaming or pure inciting posts would be looked at by two mods and the person given an immediate 1 week ban. If 2 mods are involved at least the banned cannot say they were been victimised and will remove any biased by mods (not that there would be

The Muppet

gimmick wrote:

Re Sponsorship:

I think that we should be able to warn others of a troll who is looking for sponsorship. There have been a few 'inductees' recently who have contributed nada to this forum, or any forum they post on.

That may be a good idea but we focusing on the "Noobs" . There is also an issue with some established users as was adequetly displayed in the thread about british players this morning and others.

I over stepped the mark yesterday with my comments about Forest supporters. In an attempt to retaliate at one person in particular I was unfair to all Forest supporters. I apologies to those that my comments were not intended for.

gimmick wrote:

Also, perhaps the sponsor seeking should have to say who they support, how long, and how often they actively attend football.

I don't agree with this. Who we support should have no bearing on whether we can have access to the forum or not. If only everyone could see past their team loyalties instead of the tit for tat crap we could have a good interesting forum with friendly banter. The mods are doing their best but its up to us ordinary users to keep things on the level.

jank

Yea that thread was stupid alright and was always going to be trouble.

_blank_

Don't know if I'll get time to finish this, so any unfinished points, I'll come back to later.

Perhaps a "probation period" for new users on the Soccer Forum would be welcome.

Perhaps something like a "reserve team" period. Bedding in time, so people can get used to posting without flaming.

I know the folloowing would take up a lot of the mods time, but I think it is a good idea, if not unworkable.

When a person gains access via the usual sponsor method, they are treated as a "guest" user is on the PI forum, in that any post is reviewed by a Mod before it is cleared for posting. Now, I know that certain discussions are fairly quick moving, so that may seem like it won't work.

Also, if a "Thread of Shame" was created, where posts of a bannable nature are displayed, with the Poster's name, and the banning reason posted by the banning mod, then perhaps other could view and see what is acceptable.

PHB

If the workload is too great for the mods, theres two things you can do:
(a) Ask dev for more mods
(b) Ban people for making stupid requests.

---

This whole new craze of PC bull**** is exactly why the boards have become so bitchy.
Because you have takne a hard line, not accepting anything like "scouser scum", you have inturn created a community where people are constantly on the look out for, HEY THAT GUY SAID A BAD WORD, LETS REPORT HIM AND THEN BITCH AT HIM.

For example the thread about Glazier:

Mods, if you're reading through this thread I'd suggest that its is closed now. The Rooster is obviously just using it to wind people up.

If that was the case, the Rooster should be banned, if not, don't lock the thread.
Its this whole political correctness and uptightness, creates this crap that wastes the mods time

Also, if a "Thread of Shame" was created, where posts of a bannable nature are displayed, with the Poster's name, and the banning reason posted by the banning mod, then perhaps other could view and see what is acceptable.

Its this sort of crap that I'm talking about.
The people on these boards aren't the mods, there are 4 mods.
When you have a problem, you are meant to report the post to the mod, and then the mod deals with it, instead of going nuts at the guy as happened in a previous thread about who'll go furthest in the CL.
If you have a problem, don't say it, just report it, and then ignore the thread and the person. Stop wasting peoples time.

Solution:

(a) Get rid of this PC ****
(b) Get Dev to add more mods if theres still a problem

===

This post wasn't directed at anyone in particuars actions.

Chucky the tree

PHB wrote:

its this sort of crap that I'm talking about.
The people on these boards aren't the mods, there are 4 mods.
When you have a problem, you are meant to report the post to the mod, and then the mod deals with it, instead of going nuts at the guy as happened in a previous thread about who'll go furthest in the CL.
If you have a problem, don't say it, just report it, and then ignore the thread and the person. Stop wasting peoples time.

i think if people have a problem with a post they should tell the poster in the thread.

i made a coment in a thread a week ago or more. And someone took offense to it. He posted it and i edited the comment and explained. If he had just reported me i wouldnt of had the chance to edit as i didnt think it would of caused to much offense.

I post up something like scummy mancs and someone says they find it offense i will edit it. I think most other people would too.

PHB

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying.
If somebody finds it offensive, who gives a ****.
The problem lies in if the the mods think it is inappropriate, and if thats the case, then they will edit it.
You don't need vigilantes, you need people to ignore it.

p.s. If you don't like somebodys posts, just ignore them!

p.pete

Chucky the tree wrote:

i think if people have a problem with a post they should tell the poster in the thread.

i made a coment in a thread a week ago or more. And someone took offense to it. He posted it and i edited the comment and explained. If he had just reported me i wouldnt of had the chance to edit as i didnt think it would of caused to much offense.

I post up something like scummy mancs and someone says they find it offense i will edit it. I think most other people would too.

Trick is not to say it in the first place Down the pub I have no problems talking about my toilet's hygene using endearing phrases such as The Scum but on this forum you shouldn't need to have someone point it out to you - if it helps, read what you've just written before submitting it.

Hopefully things don't turn into too big a witch-hunt in here, that'd be the opposite extreme to a problem which personally I don't see as being too big at the moment - vigilence is good though.

Chucky the tree

all the problems seem to happen after a united - arsenal game!


i say we ban all united and arsenal supporters

talla

First of all, I don't think Gandalfs intention was for suggestions on how the mods will mod the board. It was a warning to try and get people to kop the f**k on before there are mass bannings.

But just a couple of things, the access request system will stay the same, the only change being that it will be strictly enforced if someone is banned, i've been guily of it myself in the past for being too lenient. It does not matter who the hell you support, and you should not have to state that in a request. People are just sponsoring people without researching their posts, if someone wants to take that risk, then they will have to face the consequences, no more bitching and moaning about it will be tolerated, the ban will be extened. However, the blame cannot entirely be layed on new people posting. There are plenty of established posters starting with the trolls lately. Also, there definitely will be no pre-modding of users posts, this board requires enough time as it is. Finally, All the mods actively support using the report post function and urge people to use it, it stops things getting out of hand very quickly.

jesus_thats_gre

I have to agree that there has been some awful crap posted here recently..

I would be willing to be in the future if it would help.. Have always wanted to be a mod of the soccer forum..

gandalf

OK a couple if things here.

PHB wrote:

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying.
If somebody finds it offensive, who gives a ****.
The problem lies in if the the mods think it is inappropriate, and if thats the case, then they will edit it.
You don't need vigilantes, you need people to ignore it.

p.s. If you don't like somebodys posts, just ignore them!

In an ideal world this would be the solution where everyone is an adult and would cut out most of the crap I see here and on the other boards I mod. In reality however it doesn't. Just yesterday I warned two users about posts on this board in PM's. I ended up in discussions with them both with each one accussing me of favouritism because I criticised them and not the other :rolleyes:

I have been mod on soccer since the start, since it was split from sports years ago. On the whole it has been a very fruitful experience for me over the years with a lot of intelligent posts, new friends and some banter. Last year it turned to sh!te and we set up the new access system which has worked very well until recently. I cannot pin down what has changed because its not just "Noobs" who are having sissy fits there are a few regulars who are as well.

How do we stop this or at least lower the temp a bit. Think before you post, even if someone calls you or members of your families the worst thing they possibly could, report it and it will be dealt with, DO NOT escalate things further in the thread. This will make mine, Talla's and Thanx's lives alot easier.

Second thing will be any new sponsorships will have to have a mods final say so. So if we feel the appliant looks like an idiot, posts like an idiot we will assume they are and not grant access. This is something that tbh I have turned a blind eye to recently and have given access to a few users I was doubtful about, one of whom went and promptly got themselves and their sponsors banned.

At some stage I was hoping that soccer would need no real moderating at all (bar the occasional sticky and access request) and would be nearly self modding by the users, I hope we can still get to that position soon. Please everyone can you try and behave like adults, post about the game we love, the teams we follow and have some light hearted banter without all the abusive bull that seems to seep into some posts here.

Just stop and think before posting. IE ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE HITTING ENTER !

growler

Gandalf,
While I understand where you're coming from I also wonder whether it's entirely possible to have such a forum on soccer without it occasionaly (or regularly) descending to gutter level. It's really only mirroring what soccer fans engage in in the real world, even the well to do granny who sits next to me at chelsea joins in on "we all hate leeds" and other less than savoury contributions in support of her team. While I personally don't feel the need to direct personal abuse at anyone on here , I still find it difficult not to refer to Arsenal, Man U, Tottenham, West Ham, Leeds etc without using their derogatory nicknames etc, it's endemic in the nature of football fans who get emotional about the successes and failures of their sides. As PHB says, just ignore the muppets, those of us able to have a proper discussion should be able to do so without personal abuse, but a squeaky clean soccer forum seems to an impossible goal (no pun intended).

Big Ears

growler wrote:

but a squeaky clean soccer forum seems to an impossible goal

That may be true , but if we don't aim for a squeky clean soccer forum , it will never be achieved .

'IE ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE HITTING ENTER !' will do , sometimes I fall victim to speaking my mind a little too much without thinking about what that post means to others .

pickarooney

How about a double-validation of posts - "Are you sure you want to post that?".
Or scan each post automatically for "scum", "dirties" and whatever else you call one another and reject it or put it in a queue for validation before it appears in the thread.

Alternatively, allow guest access for newbies (post validation on) until such time as they've proved their worth - obviously it's up to them to use the same unreged name for an extended period so they can be assessed.

Bateman

Big Ears wrote:

That may be true , but if we don't aim for a squeky clean soccer forum , it will never be achieved .

I don't think that was the point. I think the point is that not only should we not bother "aiming for a squeaky clean soccer forum", if we want it to mirror the real world, we shouldn't want a squeaky clean soccer forum. The footballing world is too interesting and topsy-turvy for us not to be allowed to use bad words. For instance, after Alan Sugar's latest outburst, I could think of a lot of names for him, but I know some would take a holier than thou attitude and turn their noses up, no matter how much I explained why I feel justified in calling him every name under the sun.

growler

i guess what I wass saying was that while the majority of people will discuss the issues in a mature and sensible manner most of the time , I can fully understand when someone lapses into terrace talk and inflamatory remarks are made, I'm saying this is entirely natural and refelcts the realities of the sport ( be that for better or for worse, you won't find the same slagging and name calling in the GAA or Rugby fora).

If someone is a muppet who doesn't add anything to this forum, then by all means ban him/ her, however infrequent lapses into non PC language are entirely understandable imho.

Lots of english stadia have policies about the use of foul or abusive language, but if they were enforced most premiership games would end up with very depleted crowds. That doesn't make it right I know, but it is almost part of the supporters experience and if taken with a grain of salt shouldn't cause others to leap onto their high horses.

_blank_

I think the point that we are missing is this.

For someone to come in here and say :

"van Nistelrooy is a cheat" for example.

This would lead to the owners of boards.ie to be open to a libel/slander case. Not the user who posted the comments, not the forum mods, but the owners of boards.ie themselves.

Also, the people who post here have the privelige to do so.

There are rules stated in the charter.

You have a choice.

1. Post in accordance with the rules you signed up to use, and face any consequence of breaking these rules.

2. Don't post.

The Muppet

One of the main issues here are Trolls. There are a small number of mostly established users who drop into a thread to make an inflamatory comment and then sit back and watch the fallout. If you respond in kind it is not unknown for some of these Trolls to then report your post to the mods. I only found this out after the exclusion scenario last year and that is why as Gandalf said the only recourse is to report posts that you find offensive. Otherwise you may end up being excluded while the real perpetrator revels in his imagined victory. IMO that is also the reason for the complaints about certain terms etc, ie thay are being played at their own game.

.If the regular users were to keep this in mind and not let the Trolls stir up trouble between the variosu supporter groups we could have a good interesting forum (as in Sean Souths current croke park thread) where you could have a bit of friendly Ribbing/Banter without things escalating out of control.


Another idea that may help is if we could police ourselves a little better, For instance If one Man U Support though another one over stepped the mark maybe a PM to say so may help keep things on an even keel and lessen the need for mod intervention. Who knows we may even achieve Gandalf's utopia.

p.pete

The Muppet wrote:

Another idea that may help is if we could police ourselves a little better, For instance If one Man U Support though another one over stepped the mark maybe a PM to say so may help keep things on an even keel and lessen the need for mod intervention. Who knows we may even achieve Gandalf's utopia.

That possibly could have been achieved with the little rep button we had briefly. I totally understand why it was removed but there's loads of times I'd like to respond to someones post with a clap on the back and less frequently thankfully, a clout around the ear. Maybe the rep shouldn't have been public for all to see but it was easy and linked directly to the post you're referring to which was good.

C'est la vie...

The Muppet

p.pete wrote:

That possibly could have been achieved with the little rep button we had briefly. I totally understand why it was removed but there's loads of times I'd like to respond to someones post with a clap on the back and less frequently thankfully, a clout around the ear. Maybe the rep shouldn't have been public for all to see but it was easy and linked directly to the post you're referring to which was good.

C'est la vie...

I couldn't agree more pete. The ability to easily send comments kept a lot of rubbish off all the forums. DeVore did say at the time the time it was removed that he and the other admins had plans for it so possibly we will see a return of the ability to send comments off thread .

therecklessone

There's no way to avoid all the crap that the forum attracted before the sponsorship system came in, but there's plenty that can be done.

Top of my list of my priorities is the ability to suggest a prospective poster doesn't get access. One recent banned member had trouble written all over him, I was screaming at the screen when I saw him get his two sponsors. That said, I found myself in an awkward situation recently when someone I sponsored got a temporary ban, then almost followed that up with a premanent one. Result? I rarely check the access requests now.

I think both sides of the ManYoo/ABU divide need to take a step back and think carefully before posting on the next flame war. If you have a problem with a post report it then ignore the thread. Don't add fuel to the fire by getting involved in an argument, it serves no purpose.

Caesar_Bojangle

gimmick wrote:

I think that we should be able to warn others of a troll who is looking for sponsorship. There have been a few 'inductees' recently who have contributed nada to this forum, or any forum they post on.

I think this is a great idea, the rep system definitely made it easier for deciding if someone was worth taking a chance on

galwaydude

I cannot see what difference it makes if you ban someone as they will just get a new nickname and relogon and cause more mayhem.Is it possible to ban IP addresses? That would teach the fools who come on to cause arguments and mayhem.

PHB

Rep system doesn't work for the following reasons:

I once got bad rep off someone on this board for saying that Arsenal won't win the premiership.

If people had the ability to be rational and logical, which is requird for a dececent rep system, then there would be no need for a rep system

The Muppet

PHB wrote:

Rep system doesn't work for the following reasons:

I once got bad rep off someone on this board for saying that Arsenal won't win the premiership.

If people had the ability to be rational and logical, which is requird for a dececent rep system, then there would be no need for a rep system

It's not the rep system as a whole, just the ability to quickly send little comments off thread that would be nice to have returned. As I said IMO when we had that ability it kept a lot of the personal stuff out of view.

pickarooney

Can you have rep-comments on a forum-by-forum basis?

BaZmO*

God! It's not rocket science and it doesn't need to be debated to death either.

It's as simple as this. If you don't like what somebody posted report it or do what I do, Ignore it!

It's the bleedin' internet FFS, if somebody insults "your" team or says a bad word is it really gonna have that adverse of an effect on the rest of your day, week, year? No!

I've said this before in other threads. The reason why the forum got closed down before is because each thread used to contain page after page of bullsh1t which got to be a right pain in the ass when you'd log on to discuss something only to be confronted with page after page of complete tripe with only the odd nugget of common sense. All of which could of been avoided if the "offending" post had of been reported instead of retaliating to defend the honour of your wounded ego. And I'm sure you'd agree that if you were in work or busy you just wouldn't bother reading any of the threads.

B.