MetallicA:Sellouts?

Beekay

Everyone always says(including me) that when MetallicA made load and reload they sold out.
Selling out usually means when a band changes their music to appeal to a wider audience and sell MORE albums.
But load and reload have sold nowhere near as many albums as the previous five.
So did question i'm askin is did MetallicA sell out?

bombidol

nope. just they ran out of ideas real quick

mp3guy

they sold out when they released black...

Baggio

I'm always puzzled by all of this,
Im not a Metallica fan, find em too one dimensional and lots of the same ol' same ol' etc, so if theyve changed their sound well,,,maybe they should do more of it!!!... Mind you do it WITHOUT losing their core sound , its a tricky thing to do, but any bands I like have done it and done it well,,,it means you survive adapt and become better musicians and a better band. So I can never understand fans or ex fans yelling "SOLD OUT MAN" sold out of what??......their musicians!... their entitiled to grow and develop. I'm damm glad all the bands I like did it in a workable way otherwise theyd all be gone!..Even U2 learned from these top notch bands that they had to adapt aswell to survive. So lads,,,SOLD OUT??..Naa they probably just grew up!!

ciao'...Baggio..................

/V\etalfish

No they didnt sell out !?

i dont get why so many people say this about metallica , sure they tried something new and as you said if they "sold out" it means they would have done so to make more money by selling more albums ...the loads were nowhere near as popular as any other album

just because a band tries something new does not make them sellouts
they've always been about making the music how they wanted it to be made and if people dont like they dont buy it
its as simple as that

Karl Hungus

I think it's just that they became a completely different band when Cliff died.

Gone West

credit: bash.org


guy1: hey did you hear about metallica? they sold out in like 5 minutes!

guy2: yeah I know.

guy1:no i meant the concert

irokie

...prepare for a rant...

Metallica didn't sell out. Not intentionally. They just got old. When Bob Rock came in to make black with them, he sort of threw down a glove; he said "i've seen what you guys do live and i think you've never caught that in a record". So between that, and Hetfield and Lars feeling that they'd taken the 7-minute-song-with-a-twelve-riffs-and-a-shreddy-solo-thing-somewhere-in-there thing as far as they could, you got black.
Load was an extension of that. And it's a great record. The Outlaw Torn? That even beats much of their older stuff... it's just great. They were more comfortable with Rock, listened to some more of his ideas and just grooved. Prior to black, it used to be just james and lars in the studio for most of the recording, then kirk'd come in and lay down his solos and jason would put on the bass. (similarly with cliff, but i think he was probably brought in much earlier than jason).
Reload was rushed. It was songs that weren't ready/good enough for load. Some good songs, but we could've lived without it.

They changed their sound cos they felt like it. That simple. And it's the same thing with St Anger. Whatever you say about it, it's different to load/reload.

The sad thing is when you realised that they've lost their **** YOU attitude. If you've seen SKoM, you'll have seen the scene where they're being told that if they don't do a commercial, then this radio station (and the gajillion others owned by the parent company) is not going to play their record. When they were younger, they would've said **** YOU! WE DON'T NEED YOU ANYWAY! like they did to MTV for so long. But they caved. They're worried about stuff. They're not challenging the status quo as much anymore.

Which is a shame. Because the anger in Ride the Lightning, or ...And Justice For All or Damage Inc. was just beautiful to behold. Metallica were always at their best when they're fighting somehting. St Anger has something of that... they're fighting their demons, and you can feel the catharsis. And it's really good if you're in that mood.

But they don't have the same vitriol that they used to have. They have families. They haven't sold out, they've softened a little in their old age (whatever about the aggression in St Anger).

I don't think they've sold out.

Con9903

It was bob rocks influence that ****ed them over

Beekay

Karl Hungus wrote:

I think it's just that they became a completely different band when Cliff died.

I agree with that. Kirk and James always say he was the most classicly
trained member of the band.it rubbed off on them for ...And Justice For All.
The black album has its moments but i'll never treat it the same as the first four.

projectmayhem

they didn't sell out at any point when releasing cd's. they sold out (imo) when they started to sue their own fans during the napster debacle. by "them" i should probably be referencing "lars", but he sued as a representative of metallica inc.

metallica loves you.

Ph3n0m

irokie wrote:

The Outlaw Torn? That even beats much of their older stuff...

You are surely taking the proverbial piss - The Outlaw Torn a better song then anything off their first 3 albums? That is a seriously bold statement to make, since not one of the albums since Master of Puppets have been able to capture Metallica at their finest, and rawest.

Drums

Beekay wrote:

Everyone always says(including me) that when MetallicA made load and reload they sold out.
Selling out usually means when a band changes their music to appeal to a wider audience and sell MORE albums.
But load and reload have sold nowhere near as many albums as the previous five.
So did question i'm askin is did MetallicA sell out?

Yeah I think they did.
St. Anger was a totally different style of music to their previous stuff

irokie

Ph3n0m wrote:

You are surely taking the proverbial piss - The Outlaw Torn a better song then anything off their first 3 albums? That is a seriously bold statement to make, since not one of the albums since Master of Puppets have been able to capture Metallica at their finest, and rawest.

so you're saying you'd prefer to listen to Escape than The Outlaw Torn? I think the Outlaw Torn has an intensity that's lacking from some of the stuff on the early records.

That it happens to be one of my favourite songs of all time may have something to do with this... :rolleyes:

Ph3n0m

irokie wrote:

so you're saying you'd prefer to listen to Escape than The Outlaw Torn? I think the Outlaw Torn has an intensity that's lacking from some of the stuff on the early records.

That it happens to be one of my favourite songs of all time may have something to do with this... :rolleyes:

without question I would prefer Escape over The Outlaw Torn

irokie

fair enough then.

Gothic Warrior

/V\etalfish wrote:

No they didnt sell out !?

i dont get why so many people say this about metallica , sure they tried something new and as you said if they "sold out" it means they would have done so to make more money by selling more albums ...the loads were nowhere near as popular as any other album

just because a band tries something new does not make them sellouts
they've always been about making the music how they wanted it to be made and if people dont like they dont buy it
its as simple as that

Exactly.

And for the record, Cliff Burton was amazing for a METAL bass player, but he would be out of his league with genuine trained musicians like Victor Wooten and Jaco Pastorius. Pulling Teeth is good when you're 14, until you turn 16 and work it out on bass and realise it's just some very basic arpeggios sugar coated with distortion.

Lemming

projectmayhem wrote:

they didn't sell out at any point when releasing cd's. they sold out (imo) when they started to sue their own fans during the napster debacle. by "them" i should probably be referencing "lars", but he sued as a representative of metallica inc.

metallica loves you.

I'm going to jump on this with a giant boot. Metallica approached Napster and said "please don't list our songs. *We* don't *our* songs distrubuted like this at this time and we'd appreciate it if you just filtered them out of searches".

Napster said "f*ck you" (ironically enough) and the rest is history.

Metallica did not sue their fans. In fact I would query if *any* artist that has jumped on the RIAA bandwagon has seen a penny of what the RIAA have sued for. What I do dislike is that they allowed themselves to be used as puppets by the RIAA to be wheeled out in a proxy-battle.

empirix

Karl Hungus wrote:

I think it's just that they became a completely different band when Cliff died.

What a load of crap! How did they become completely different, they became different when the black album came out and i would put that down to Bob Rocks influence on them. But in a way, they had to take a new direction musically or else they would of ended up like the slayer, just releasing the same old same old music - Slayer havent released a decent album since Seasons in the Abyss, there just releasing noise now! But hey they are the gods of it all

D!ve^Bomb!

Metallica have NOT sold out, they have just grown and matured and it shows in their music, I don't personally have re-load but I do know a good few songs off it and I also have Load... I actually prefer their newer **** than the older, I think it sounds better, I think the music is more intelligent and better written... so what if YOU don't like it!!! guess what it's not the 80's anymore and you're GAY!!

That is all;)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

ummm

ROFL

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

you are ****ing precious

paulmartin

I don't think Metallica sold out. I always thought they were great songwriters on the first four albums, the lyrics and the arrangements and stuff, so I always thought it would be cool if they tried new stuff, like full power ballads, instead of just playing thrash metal all the time. They showed their versatility with classics like the Unforgiven and Nothing Else Matters,which were completely different to anything done on previous albums. If they had kept on doing the same stuff they would probably never have written that stuff. I don't think bands experimenting is selling out. Nobody ever accused Kurt Cobain of selling out when he done acoustic and I don't think Metallica did either. Listening to St. Anger nobody can say they made that album because they genuinely thought it would sell more records than a traditional Metallica album. Maybe, like somebody said, they just ran out of ideas.

Mr. CooL ICE

Cliff dying didnt completely change the band, but it did impact on them. Do you think MTV would have shown the video for One if he was still alive? I think releasing that video started a snowball that has lasted ever since. Selling out means losing your integrity for more money, and releasing the video did just that, in the eyes of metal fans.

Ever since that, they have committed the sins most metal fans shudder at the thought of, and gotten old aswell. They took a new producer on board, and instead of telling him what to do, they listened to him and took his advice on board, and released the black album. Ok, it was a very good record, but it was their last good one. Load had some great songs on it, but songs like Mama Said are just way too far gone from the old 80s thrash of before. As somebody said before, theres nothing wrong with a band experimenting and adapting to stay alive, but they had changed enough with the black album, and i think they shouldnt have gone much further than that. Reload was a load of bollox, except maybe for the first two songs, and the next 2 albums were just money makers. As for St Anger, if youve seen SKoM, you will see that they werent writing an album for themselves, they made one that was adapted for the audience in mind, and listen to it as often as you want, but it is just dishonest bollox.

D!ve^Bomb!

LordChessington wrote:

They took a new producer on board, and instead of telling him what to do, they listened to him and took his advice on board, and released the black album..

What do you think a producer is exactly?

LordChessington wrote:

As for St Anger, if youve seen SKoM, you will see that they werent writing an album for themselves, they made one that was adapted for the audience in mind, and listen to it as often as you want, but it is just dishonest bollox.

erm, what?

Lemming

LordChessington wrote:

Cliff dying didnt completely change the band, but it did impact on them. Do you think MTV would have shown the video for One if he was still alive? I think releasing that video started a snowball that has lasted ever since. Selling out means losing your integrity for more money, and releasing the video did just that, in the eyes of metal fans.

Excuse me. But ...

WTF?!!!

So any band that releases a music video has sold out? Jeez. Best let Pantera, Slayer, Marilyn Manson, AC/DC, Iron Maiden, et al. know that they're sell outs eh?

But oooooh noooooo ... we can't have that? Who will fly the flag of metal? Surely the immaculately pristine perception I have of Pantera and Slayer can't be tarnished? Surely if I just ... adjust this bit ...and ... that .... bit! There!! My little world is safe

cournioni

No they didn't sell out. They just ran out of ideas without Cliff Burton around. And without being able to steal songs from Dave Mustaine.

Anyone saying that Metallica have "just grown and matured with their music" is a fool. How can any band with the lyrics "It ain't my Biachhhhhaaa" be seen as mature?

They would never have been a "great band" without Mustaine or Burton, and that has now come to light with their recent attempts at writing an album.

Lemming

PORNAPSTER wrote:

No they didn't sell out. They just ran out of ideas without Cliff Burton around.

Possibly. Or at the very least a lot less ideas coming into the pot.

And without being able to steal songs from Dave Mustaine.

:rolleyes:

Lets see. List the songs that Mustaine co-wrote then (besides alleged ones. I, for example, allege that Mustaine ripped off a riff that I *created* for Peace Sells .... *cough*).

Besides the Four Horsemen (aka. the Mechanix), Ride the lightning, Call of Ktulu

They would never have been a "great band" without Mustaine or Burton, and that has now come to light with their recent attempts at writing an album.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but eh ..... don't all the "sell-out" preachers claim that "And Justice for All ... " was a great album too? And well, last time I checked, Burton was a weeeee bit absent by then :rolleyes:

So who do you think wrote the album?

Praetorian

Metallica IMO

Kill 'em All 9.5/10
Ride The lightning 9/10
Master of Puppets 8.5/10
...And Justice For All 9/10
Metallica Black 8.5/10
Load 7/10
Reload 6/10
S&M 8.5/10
St Anger 5.5/10

Their music writing ability has dropped through the years, culminating in St Anger which was very ordinary. I suppose it's not surprising, but it is a little disappoining. Hopefully they'll surprise us some time in the future with a kick as$ release. I'm hoping for something as good as Iron Maiden's dance of death.

For the record, Mordeth is a poo poo head

cournioni

Lemming wrote:

Possibly. Or at the very least a lot less ideas coming into the pot.

Well all the ideas seem to have gone bone dry without him. Metallica have had only one decent song from the last fifteen years and that was "No Leaf Clover", even at that it was ruined by Hammet's wankery on the guitar.

Lemming wrote:

:rolleyes:

Lets see. List the songs that Mustaine co-wrote then (besides alleged ones. I, for example, allege that Mustaine ripped off a riff that I *created* for Peace Sells .... *cough*).

Besides the Four Horsemen (aka. the Mechanix), Ride the lightning, Call of Ktulu

Co-Written my arse. Mustaine wrote the bulk of those songs himself, Hetfield wrote the lyrics and Ulrich possibly re-arranged them a tad.

Also on the list was:
Jump in the Fire
Phantom Lord
Metal Militia
and parts of Leper Messiah.

Lemming wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but eh ..... don't all the "sell-out" preachers claim that "And Justice for All ... " was a great album too? And well, last time I checked, Burton was a weeeee bit absent by then :rolleyes:

So who do you think wrote the album?

Well I am not one of the people who claims that AJFA is a "great album", it is decent, but very VERY repetitive and drawn out. They ripped a few riffs from Exodus and Dark Angel on the album anyway. Why should it be any better than any other album?

flangeman

Off topic a little but.....

On the subject of 'Sellout', a lot of people have very different views on what the word means.

A mate of mine used to believe that a band reached 'Sellout' stage when I'd mention I'd heard of them.

Obviously his tastes 'lived fast'. He used to scour the pages of Melody Maker and NME (when they were black and white!!) for the most obscure bands and 'get into them' asking our local shop in Ardee, County Louth to order in 'Gay bikers on Acid' singles and the like (no mp3's then). I always thought he was acting like a music 'wannabe' asshole but now, I assume he was just trying to look for a different sound.

Mr. CooL ICE

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

What do you think a producer is exactly?

Excuse me for not elaborating, but from interviews, hetfield said that with fleming rasmussen, their view of a producer (at the time) was someone that records them, and not a whole pile else. And that was their view, not necessarily everyone elses.

Lemming wrote:

Excuse me. But ...

WTF?!!!

I did not say that any band that releases a video is a sell out. Saying that would include Deicide and Cannibal Corpse among sihtloads others. But if Cliff was around, do you think the success of the video for One on MTV would have gone to their heads, making them go in a more commercial direction?