MetallicA:Sellouts?

egan007

Beekay wrote:

Everyone always says(including me) that when MetallicA made load and reload they sold out.
Selling out usually means when a band changes their music to appeal to a wider audience and sell MORE albums.
But load and reload have sold nowhere near as many albums as the previous five.
So did question i'm askin is did MetallicA sell out?

After 20 years of making music they deserve a retirement fund

Lemming

pornapster wrote:

even at that it was ruined by Hammet's wankery on the guitar.

As opposed to say, Mustaine's (keeping with the Megadeth connection) frequent masturbatory solos? Intro solo, play riff for 30 seconds, quarter-way solo, chorus, further solo, etc etc.

Note I am not singling out Mustaine here .... I can think of plenty of others too ....

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Co-Written my arse. Mustaine wrote the bulk of those songs himself, Hetfield wrote the lyrics and Ulrich possibly re-arranged them a tad.

and parts of Leper Messiah.

As I said - "alleged" by Mustaine.

I allege that Mustaine ripped off stuff that I wrote in my room 30 years ago before I was born and I was reincarnated as someone else that played with him once ......

You should be getting my point by now.

cournioni

Lemming wrote:

As opposed to say, Mustaine's (keeping with the Megadeth connection) frequent masturbatory solos? Intro solo, play riff for 30 seconds, quarter-way solo, chorus, further solo, etc etc.

Note I am not singling out Mustaine here .... I can think of plenty of others too ....

Uh huh... But at least Mustaine knows how to use different scales and doesn't use the wah so much that it sounds like a cat giving birth to an elephant.

Lemming wrote:

As I said - "alleged" by Mustaine.

I allege that Mustaine ripped off stuff that I wrote in my room 30 years ago before I was born and I was reincarnated as someone else that played with him once ......

You should be getting my point by now.

That is totally different, Mustaine did actually write those songs. Why do you think he was credited for them on the albums? Mustaine had asked them not to use his stuff on their album. Paul Curcio the producer of Kill Em All even stated this in an interview.

Ronan|Raven

I love the way people get so upset over it. If ya enjoy it then listen to it if not not point bleeting over and over about it. Who cares what Mister down the road or random poster to the web thinks. You aint gona change anything! Hell im gona go as far as calling every last one of you sellouts.


*prod

Ronan|Raven

flangeman wrote:

Off topic a little but.....

On the subject of 'Sellout', a lot of people have very different views on what the word means.

A mate of mine used to believe that a band reached 'Sellout' stage when I'd mention I'd heard of them.

Obviously his tastes 'lived fast'. He used to scour the pages of Melody Maker and NME (when they were black and white!!) for the most obscure bands and 'get into them' asking our local shop in Ardee, County Louth to order in 'Gay bikers on Acid' singles and the like (no mp3's then). I always thought he was acting like a music 'wannabe' asshole but now, I assume he was just trying to look for a different sound.

Well said

senordingdong

Metallica themselves have mentioned on plenty of occaasions that they changed the songs Mustaine CO-WROTE, just enough so that he could'nt sue them.
They were justbeing nice, and doing him a huge favour by giving him credit onthier albums.

Anyway...take your Metllica v. Megadeth to the allocated thread.

I don't think Metallica sold out.
They have more damn money than they know what to do with....that's right, they're MILLIONARES....do you really think they did it for the money.

Maybe they just plain got tired of wrtiting the repettitve hair metal songs and wanted to try something new.

cournioni

senordingdong wrote:

They were justbeing nice, and doing him a huge favour by giving him credit onthier albums.

Just being nice?! Are you trolling or just being downright stupid? They used those songs for their benefit, not Mustaine's. Its more of a kick in the teeth while you're on the ground, than "being nice". :rolleyes:

senordingdong

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Just being nice?! Are you trolling or just being downright stupid? They used those songs for their benefit, not Mustaine's. Its more of a kick in the teeth while you're on the ground, than "being nice". :rolleyes:

...ok.....now read the start of the post....

cournioni

senordingdong wrote:

...ok.....now read the start of the post....

I have done so... And that just shows what great creative genious Metallica have, that they have to go around changing someone elses songs just enough so that someone won't sue them... :rolleyes:

Metallica are nothing without Mustaine and Burton.

The Bollox

Beekay wrote:

Everyone always says(including me) that when MetallicA made load and reload they sold out.
Selling out usually means when a band changes their music to appeal to a wider audience and sell MORE albums.
But load and reload have sold nowhere near as many albums as the previous five.
So did question i'm askin is did MetallicA sell out?

Metallica DID sell out, and it wasn't just the whole Load and Reload, they ran out of ideas, yeah, but to me selling out is where you care more about the money than the music (in this case) I mean the whole thing about sueing the ppl downloading off Napster, that was a HUGE mistake, not just because t makes Metallica look money-hungry, but it introduced me, and a ****load of other ppl to the fact that you don't have to buy cd's, that you can download for free, so all Metallica did there was tarnish their name and popularise
downloading

flangeman

I wonder why 'The Whores' sorry 'The Corrs' did the same thing (regarding downloading), or perhaps the tricky 4th album that didn't feature the same ****in melody needed some extra publicity (along the lines of how to get it for free...)

Doctor J

The term sellout cannot be applied to a band who happen to sell a ****load of albums doing their own thing. The One video, which seems to be a point of contention here, was successful because it's a ****ing great video and a ****ing great song. Sure it got airplay on MTV but back then MTV showed music and showed Metal videos every now and then. One is still, IMO, one of the greatest examples of combining audio and visual art. IIRC, it didn't win the MTV BEst Video award, Guns N Roses won for Welcome To The Jungle, go figure, but GnR basically said Metallica deserved the award from the podium. One wasn't a commercial step, even the edit is almost 5 minutes long.

With the fifth album, the band definitley did take a purposeful step towards commerciality by hiring Bob Rock, a man famous for crafting radio friendly music. The man had just produced smash hit albums for the Cult and Bon Jovi among others. The band were looking to update their sound and hired the biggest name in the business at the time. Is that selling out? The Black album doesn't really do anything for me, and nothing they've done since makes me feel anything other than despair. Their songs definitely veered in a more conventional, radio friendly, verse, big chorus direction and I find the lyrics from the Black album on to be cringeworthy. That Cunning Stunts live show is an embarrassment, totally choreographed to whoop up the jock audience, it's as scripted as WWE. Shameful really. Even the good songs sound horrible.

What I would bring to everyone's attentions is that they did try to hire a big name producer for AJFA, in the shape of Mike Clink (who went onto produce Megadeth's very uncommercial Rust In Peace) but it didn't work out, for whatever reason, and the band went with what they knew, Flemming Rasmussen.

Personally, yes I believe they definitely wanted to sound more mainstream, I don't for a second thing they expected to be as popular as they became. They put out four of the greatest Metal albums I've heard, then they went and made money. I don't begrudge them their success, even if I find it disappointing in the extreme.

irokie

whatever you can say about metallica and MTV... most bands begged MTV to play their videos, MTV begged metallica to make a video. MTV ask metallica to play some single at an awards show? Metallica play So What. (i LOVE that story). they still have the fook you power, but they forget it some times.

and people who say that garage inc was just a "money maker"? that was them kicking back and having some fun. they recorded it in 6 weeks, which is NOTHING compared to the more-than-a-year it took for load, reload and black...

cournioni

irokie wrote:

whatever you can say about metallica and MTV... most bands begged MTV to play their videos, MTV begged metallica to make a video. MTV ask metallica to play some single at an awards show? Metallica play So What. (i LOVE that story). they still have the fook you power, but they forget it some times.

and people who say that garage inc was just a "money maker"? that was them kicking back and having some fun. they recorded it in 6 weeks, which is NOTHING compared to the more-than-a-year it took for load, reload and black...

Firstly, I'd doubt if MTV ever begged anyone to make a video. If they did they would have given it video of the year. Secondly, Metallica have only been asked to play at awards shows since they became more mainstream after the Black album. Which is the point most people are trying to make about Metallica selling out.

Garage Inc was a money maker, they made money on it didn't they? If they just wanted to mess around and have fun while rehearsing then fine. They didn't have to release it to have fun you know? You say they recorded it in 6 weeks, that is exactly the reason why they released it. They didn't have to write songs so it was a quick buck for them. It isn't hard to learn a few covers and then nail them in a couple of weeks you know? Especially if you are a full time band.

senordingdong

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Metallica are nothing without Mustaine and Burton.

You're right....they're nothing.

Thos 10million records must have just dissapeared.

I assume that you're aware that from what you typed you are agreeing that they did not use any of Mustaines material.

Anyway...this is irrelevant here.

Beekay

I hate the whole as i like to call the " So ****ing What " image they've had since load.

cournioni

senordingdong wrote:

You're right....they're nothing.

Thos 10million records must have just dissapeared.

I assume that you're aware that from what you typed you are agreeing that they did not use any of Mustaines material.

Anyway...this is irrelevant here.

Those 10 million records were sold on Metallica's reputation, not their music. Are you saying that without Kill Em All, Ride The Lightning etc. Metallica would be around today? Are you saying that Metallica would have sold so many copies of Load and Reload without those albume? Without Mustaine and Burton, Metallica would have been nothing.

They did use Mustaine's material it is that simple. Don't be so gullible to think that Metallica are saints here, because the fact is that Mustaine did write all of those songs that I've listed. Without those songs Kill Em All would never have been released and Metallica probably wouldn't be as rich as they are today.

galactus

Hi, first post in this forum but a long time into metal.

I haven't bought anything from Metallica since Reloaded. And what a pile of crap that was. And a rip-off.

Master Of Puppets, And Justice For All and the Black album are CLASSICS.Then nothing but bull****. They've taken the biggest nose-dive of all time. Sad But True.

Last year I was looking to replace my copy of And Justice For All after someone stood on it. I made a point of going down the pirate road after the whole Napster thing and well, they had it and lost it.

There's a lot more i'd like to post on this but i'd be just ranting :mad:

Gothic Warrior

flangeman wrote:

I wonder why 'The Whores' sorry 'The Corrs' did the same thing...

Just use the edit button if you accidentally type a mistake. Either way it's still a lame joke...

senordingdong

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Those 10 million records were sold on Metallica's reputation, not their music. Are you saying that without Kill Em All, Ride The Lightning etc. Metallica would be around today? Are you saying that Metallica would have sold so many copies of Load and Reload without those albume? Without Mustaine and Burton, Metallica would have been nothing.

They did use Mustaine's material it is that simple. Don't be so gullible to think that Metallica are saints here, because the fact is that Mustaine did write all of those songs that I've listed. Without those songs Kill Em All would never have been released and Metallica probably wouldn't be as rich as they are today.

Sorry, that was a typo, Metallica have actually sold 85million records.
Ofcourse alot of them were sold on reputation, the reputation that they are good albums witten by good song writers.
Yes Metallica would have done just fine. Funny how their best albums and material don;t have Mustaines name anywhere on them...yet you said they would be nowhere without him.

Don't you be so gullible to think that Dave Mustaine is a saint...you're accusing Metllica of beign sellouts...though as I recall it was Dave Mustaine who bidded all he had, ($15million) on the Jackson guit co. only to be outbided by Fender. Sure he's not a sellout.

Doctor J

senordingdong wrote:

Sorry, that was a typo, Metallica have actually sold 85million records.
Ofcourse alot of them were sold on reputation, the reputation that they are good albums witten by good song writers.
Yes Metallica would have done just fine. Funny how their best albums and material don;t have Mustaines name anywhere on them...yet you said they would be nowhere without him.

Don't you be so gullible to think that Dave Mustaine is a saint...you're accusing Metllica of beign sellouts...though as I recall it was Dave Mustaine who bidded all he had, ($15million) on the Jackson guit co. only to be outbided by Fender. Sure he's not a sellout.

As logic goes, that's about as twisted as I've seen. Mustaine tried to buy a guitar factory and that makes him a sell out? That makes him a ****ing legend in my book.

For most people, well those old enough to remember what Metallica were like when they still had it, three of their four best albums have music written by Dave Mustaine on them. Musitaine's progessive writing style also directly influenced Metallica's direction in their early career, if you don't believe that, listen to the songs he is credited for writing on Kill Em All, now listen to the ones he didn't write. Now compare those two groups of songs to Ride The Lightning and Master Of Puppets. Whose material sounds closer to what Metallica would become?

Mohanned

Beekay wrote:

Everyone always says(including me) that when MetallicA made load and reload they sold out.
Selling out usually means when a band changes their music to appeal to a wider audience and sell MORE albums.
But load and reload have sold nowhere near as many albums as the previous five.
So did question i'm askin is did MetallicA sell out?

I think they did and I am Lars Ulrichs cousin Rambo but I had to use this poxy name cuz someone used Rambo :mad:

senordingdong

Doctor J wrote:

As logic goes, that's about as twisted as I've seen. Mustaine tried to buy a guitar factory and that makes him a sell out? That makes him a ****ing legend in my book.

So when Metallica apparently try to make their wallets that little bit heavier they are labelled sellouts but when Mustain does it, he is a ****ing legend?

Doctor J wrote:

For most people, well those old enough to remember what Metallica were like when they still had it, three of their four best albums have music written by Dave Mustaine on them. Musitaine's progessive writing style also directly influenced Metallica's direction in their early career, if you don't believe that, listen to the songs he is credited for writing on Kill Em All, now listen to the ones he didn't write. Now compare those two groups of songs to Ride The Lightning and Master Of Puppets. Whose material sounds closer to what Metallica would become?

Godamn you...Mustaine is credited for four or five songs out of the nine albums that Metallica have...ya know, the rest of the band are also credited for these songs...and you think that Metallica woulnd't be where they are today without Mustaine.
Ridiculous.

feylya

What I don't understand is why people care if Metallica sold out. If they don't make music you don't like, don't listen to it. They've said it themselves, they make music for themselves, no one else. Bitching about them "selling out" on an internet forum is a waste of time. Go and stare at the sun for while.