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"[They] danced on [his] head until his eyes popped out"

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    *NEWSFLASH*

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0303/mccartneyr.html

    "Adams suspends 7 amid McCartney claims

    03 March 2005 20:35
    The Sinn Féin President, Gerry Adams, has suspended seven members of the party because of their alleged involvement in the murder of Belfast man Robert McCartney.

    In a statement this evening, Mr Adams said the seven, who were named in a list given to him by the McCartney family, had been instructed to provide full and frank statements about the killing.

    Mr Adams said he had given the full list of names to a solicitor to pass on to the Police Ombudsman, Nuala O'Loan."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    He said seven of those on the list were Sinn Fein members and have been suspended without prejudice and told "to provide full and frank statements".

    :confused: Without prejudice? Hardly...

    edit. If you want some idea what those inside the 'ra think of whats going on check this thread

    Meanwhile here's Daily Irelands Interview with a witness

    Mike.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Daveirl I believe this is a very positive move from SF, I think the fact that they have passed the list to PSNI is very positive.

    BTW I don't believe SF were involved as a party, certain members may have been but not the party.

    As FF once said "A lot done, more to do"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,194 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    mike65 wrote:
    :confused: Without prejudice? Hardly...

    edit. If you want some idea what those inside the 'ra think of whats going on check this thread

    Meanwhile here's Daily Irelands Interview with a witness

    Mike.

    I am pretty sure that Daily Ireland interview is what they are discussing on the 1st link.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭ishmael whale


    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.

    Absolutely. Its not just hitting them from their own supporters, its hitting them in the US. Bear in mind the murder took place on 30 January, and we can take it (oh, god, cue another fifty posts of SF supporter denial) that the SF leadership would have had a clear picture very quickly of what names were in circulation.

    What's the SF approach to criminal law enforcement? Deny everything until the White House drops you off the guest list and hints that the family of the victim would be welcome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,924 ✭✭✭Cork


    irish1 wrote:

    Just one quick point Sand, Sinn Fein did not say "dont talk to the PSNI or assist their investigation".

    Now if you have evidence to show where Sinn Fein said that please post it or retract that statement.

    Where has SF said "talk to the PSNI or assist their investigation".

    Now that McGuiness has admitted IRA members were involved -

    SF has yet to come out and encorage people to assist the police.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Squaletto


    Calling all you Brit aplogists anti republican heads, please tell me what you think of the Mc Cartney sisters trip to Dublin at the request of the Sinn Fein Presidents invite. Surely you will try and belittle the sisters now or have you an explaination for their actions.

    In the meantime please read this link and let me know if the people of Short strand as a community are all terrorists or is it simply that the Irish biased media has got it wrong once again. Tools of the state protecting their own selfish interests. I wish for the day when journalists do the job they are trained to do and leave behind their own prejudicies. Alas we can only wish as evidence on the ground for such a change is very slim.

    http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=2876-qqqx=1.asp

    Ciao for now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Who said the Short Strand area was populated only by provo terrorists?

    As for the McCartneys at the SF bash, well I was amused by the standing ovation, it struck me it was for Gerry Adams coup (bringing them back into the fold) not them, or thier fortitude in the face of intimidation by ppl that many delegates will know .

    Mike.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Rock Climber


    Squaletto wrote:
    Calling all you Brit aplogists anti republican heads, please tell me what you think of the Mc Cartney sisters trip to Dublin at the request of the Sinn Fein Presidents invite. Surely you will try and belittle the sisters now or have you an explaination for their actions.
    Well were you watching it yourself out in "Italy"?
    Of course they were there, they didn't give a resounding cheer for being there, they welcomed Adams speech as a step in the right direction but wont be happy untill it rings true to what is happening on the ground.

    Also they were ashen faced right through the proceedings,they did not look like happy bunnies to be there at all, but then I think its right that they went, its all part of looking for answers and pressing the buttons.
    Adams was Angry and we shall wait and see if his angry words of condemnation for his IRA comrades bears results.

    The telling part of this is how it has took the guts of a month for this type of line from Sinn Féin to be taken given that Alex maskey was dismissing it all in the first couple of weeks as just another "knife culture" incident-he's been set right on that approach since then in fear of losing votes and in the face of the huge outrage, but how telling it was.
    How in keeping it was with the " short strand twelves" forensic clean up job of this brutal murder...

    I notice the mother of Robert McCartneys children didnt go...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Squaletto


    Who said the Short Strand area was populated only by provo terrorists?
    Now now boys don't be getting all excited about the festivities in the RDS. The fact that the siters of Mr Mc Cartney went to the Ard Fheis speaks volumes in itself. By the way I didn't say anything about the people of the Short Strand being terrorists! It has been said on more than one occassion by the apologists for British rule that a vote for SF is a vote for terrorism. I am surprized that the gardai (honest boys that they are!!!!!) didn't arrest en masse the delegates at the Ard Fheis. It is you anti republican heads who have called the people of the Short Strand terrorists by your continuing of the BS speak that all sf voters are in league with the IRA. What's it to be boys? Do you admit that the Mc Cartney sisters are supporters of SF and therefore they themselves are linked in some way to the IRA. Come come tell me as I am sick and tired of weak politicians from the south jump on the bandwagon to solely promote their conservative corrupt policies. Shame on the FF and PD government for making a mess of the peace process!Regarding the mother of the Mc Cartneys not going to ard fheis well I haven't heard her say anything about the whole affair yet but it's possible that she has and we in Italy haven't got the news. Let me know please. Regarding the ashen faces of the sisters I would imagine that anybody would be like that after the grief and stress of the death of a family member. One can only wonder what it must be like especially being tormented by the rabib media of the south trying to milk the murder of Mc Cartney for everything it is worth in an effort to hound a democratic political party with its main aim the reunification of Ireland.

    By the way I did get to see the highlights of ard fheis on sky news. God that Adams fellow is the cut of a good politician!
    Ci sentiamo dopo amici! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    please tell me what you think of the Mc Cartney sisters trip to Dublin at the request of the Sinn Fein Presidents invite

    Did they get up and cheer Adams with pom-poms? No.

    Did they go "ah sure, it's all better now"? No

    It kept the case in the media spotlight, exactly where it needs to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭mycroft


    Squaletto wrote:
    Calling all you Brit aplogists anti republican heads, please tell me what you think of the Mc Cartney sisters trip to Dublin at the request of the Sinn Fein Presidents invite. Surely you will try and belittle the sisters now or have you an explaination for their actions.

    considering on earlier thread you implied "what did Mc carthy do do deserve it" Implies you were swallowing the early IRA inneudo the were trying to smear him with.

    They sat in the front row as part of a SF damage limitation exercise, the family where there to let SF they're not going anywhere, and this is not going to blow over.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Squaletto


    mycroft wrote:
    considering on earlier thread you implied "what did Mc carthy do do deserve it" Implies you were swallowing the early IRA inneudo the were trying to smear him with.

    They sat in the front row as part of a SF damage limitation exercise, the family where there to let SF they're not going anywhere, and this is not going to blow over.


    My my Mycroft how you try to twist the story to suit your own agenda!! Are you sure you arn't Mc Dodaws script writer. Talking of inneundo and smears, that's rich coming from you after weeks of unfounded lies thrown at us from yourself (obviously taken from captain sensible himself ie Cusack from Irish Indo). The simple facts are that the Mc Cartneys are SF supporters and one has even said she would vote SF again. Going by your understanding of things the Mc Cartneys are a problem for SF, you obviously don't know much about the Short Strand and its residents. Staunch republicans there my friend none of the republican up to the border crowd, no , no true green republicans who strive for a united Ireland where all have the right to justice not just the privilaged few!!
    Going back to my earlier quote, you have taken me out of context and you know I was just asking a question from 'people in the know' or so I thought until I found out what type of posters there were in here ie staunch anti republican, SF haters.Not an ideal place to get unbiased information I'm afraid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,194 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    A different take in the Sunday Business Post by Anne Cadwallader today. Apparantly, it is a different slant to this murder than is stated in this thread
    Short shrift for the Strand

    06 March 2005 By Anne Cadwallader
    People are undoubtedly angry about the IRA in the Short Strand area of Belfast - but it's not anger at the intimidation of witnesses who might finger those who killed Robert McCartney at a city centre bar on January 30. Far from it.

    The anger is directed at the IRA for what many see as its expulsion of a senior member after he was, in their view, wrongly accused of being involved. Resignations from Sinn Féin and the IRA are expected as a result.

    Gerard ‘Jock' Davison is believed to be one of three IRA members expelled by the organisation or “hung out to dry'‘, as locals in the tightly-knit Short Strand were putting it last week.

    As one eyewitness in Magennis's Bar, where the brawl took place, said: “If Jock hadn't had to go to hospital, McCartney would still be alive today. He was actually calming things down.”

    That eyewitness, along with many others, said he was prepared to give evidence to the police, but - on the advice of his solicitor - is waiting until they come looking for him.

    Like many others in the Short Strand, he is wondering why no police officer has approached him yet, as he is a well-known regular at Magennis's.

    Gerry Adams took an unprecedented step last Thursday when he suspended seven party members, who may have evidence on the killing, and passed their names via a solicitor to the Police Ombudsman, Nuala O'Loan.

    The McCartney family gave this a half-hearted welcome, adding that this was no more than would be expected from any democratic party and was an “inadequate'‘ method of gathering information.

    Local Sinn Féin sources in the Short Strand said there was “no turmoil or outcry'‘ in the ranks as the seven people suspended had already come forward voluntarily and given statements to the police on what they know.

    From what can be gathered locally, said one republican, at least 30 people from the Short Strand, the nearby Markets area and others from north Belfast have voluntarily come forward, on top of the ten arrested by police.

    The whereabouts of the two main suspects, however, is still unknown.

    “They are coming under huge pressure from the republican movement as well as the local community and the police,” said one local resident.

    Had it not been for the IRA ceasefire - and the McCartney family's appeal for due process - the two individuals believed to have been involved in the murder would, many believe, have been discovered dead by now in a hedge in south Armagh.

    As it is, they are believed to have been taken away by the IRA for five days last week for ‘debriefing'. Many in the Short Strand expect them to turn themselves in to the police before long.

    Politicians lecturing the 3,000 inhabitants of the small Catholic enclave in east Belfast about their civic duty, as well as those reporting on events, are singing from a very similar hymn sheet. The tune is one that people in the Short Strand reject as both inaccurate and unfair.

    They say they do not recognise the official account, that they live under the oppressive yoke of the IRA, and one ‘rogue' unit in particular, which has imposed a rule of fear since the ceasefire. Accounts of ‘IRA godfathers' and ‘gangs' causing people to cower are treated with derision locally.

    There have been several remarkably detailed newspaper accounts of an event that could only have been witnessed by those directly involved - and none of these has yet spoken publicly.

    The reported accounts claim that McCartney and Brendan Devine, who was injured on the night of the murder, had angered a local ‘IRA godfather'.

    By this point Davison had already been shipped to hospital, bleeding badly from arm injuries. He said he played no further role in the incident, and was still in hospital when McCartney was stabbed.

    Back in the city centre - the official account goes - up to 15 people were involved in the murder. Other accounts, however, say that at most two men were involved in the killing, which no one inside the bar knew was taking place about 100 yards away.

    A third man, who had left the bar with McCartney and Devine, returned to tell others that the pair had run off home. Those in Magennis's assumed the brawl had ended, as most do, in injured dignity but nothing worse.

    They carried on drinking, while bar staff cleaned up the broken glass and blood from the initial bottle-throwing incident.

    There can be little dispute, however, that later that night, one of the two men directly involved in the killing did return to steal the security tape from a camera.

    The official account continues that when the police tried to get evidence from eye-witnesses, every single one of them was too fearful of the gang to come forward.

    In fact, more than 30 people have so far voluntarily made statements to police, in addition to the other seven arrested.

    The reluctance of the overwhelmingly republican community in the Short Strand to speak to police, coupled with their fear of being found guilty by association, led to a delay in witnesses coming forward.

    Writers who know little about the Short Strand wrote authoritative-sounding pieces bemoaning its oppression and praising the McCartney sisters' bravery in standing up to the IRA.

    Politicians have not been slow to comment either. In the upcoming British election a major policy battle will take place between Sinn Féin and the SDLP over policing.

    Constitutionally, Sinn Féin can only endorse policing arrangements with the approval of a special ard fheis.

    This storm has broken over the heads of the people of the Short Strand, many of them now hurt and angry.

    It didn't start out that way.

    After the McCartney murder, and the subsequent heartrending appeals from his sisters, their heads were down.

    The community was confused, shamed and demoralised by details of the horrific murder, and they turned out in force for the first vigil as well as for McCartney's funeral.

    But as the weeks have dragged on, hearing themselves described as a cowed community, the mood has changed.

    Residents said that many who attended last Sunday's rally came from outside the area.

    “We're no angels here, we know that, but we have our dignity, and we're fed up with having our noses rubbed in it,” said one resident.

    In the past, the chorus has often been joined by the Catholic hierarchy.

    Intriguingly, on this occasion, there has been no belt from the crozier, though Archbishop Sean Brady urged anyone with information to contact the PSNI.

    “No one needs to tell us that what happened to Bert [McCartney's name in the locality] was utterly and completely wrong,” said one Short Strand resident.

    “We don't need the British newspapers or the SDLP to tell us that Bert should not have been killed, that those who carried out behaved disgracefully and should be brought to justice.”

    However, residents are upset at the public image of their community, and this may discourage them from giving information to the police about the murder.

    http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=2876-qqqx=1.asp


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Sick. The subject is "they danced on his head until his eyes popped out " and you say you're crushed.

    You are deliberately misrepresenting my post and you are using Bert McCartney's death to do it. It demonstrates the level of actual concern you have for the man (very little) considering you will twist the situation so as to use it as a stick to beat me. I said I was "crushed" in a sarcastic reference to your calling me "sick".
    So ?

    Collaboraters get that treatment the world over.
    Who mentioned toads ? Or self hating ?

    Me, and I'm annoyed that I brought myself down to your level of personal abuse, I also resent your abusive labelling of me as a "sick" person.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Squaletto


    Hi Dub,
    I read that article earlier and asked the usual anti republican mob to read it but as you can expect no none came back to me on it. All went on about how the Mc Cartney sisters were at the Ard Fheis to prove a point but we know the truth. The residents of Short Strand are SF voters including the Mc cartneys. They have said that SF and the republican movment had little to do with the murder of Robert and in fact on sky tv immediately after the ard fheis one sister put the whole media angle (i.e SF and IRA are criminals vibe) on its arse. She was asked by the BBC NI correspondent about the fact that the sisters could be sending 'mixed signal' by attending the Ard Fheis, she replied 'that the case was a social justice issue and had nothing to do with the republican movement nor SF'!! I must say that the BBC NI correspondent was dumbstruck and completely taken aback by the statement. Cusack and the indo journos if you can really call them journos that is are barking up the wrong green tree there I would think.!
    Isn't it interesting that after partition that only now the so called Irish republicans and other pretenders have gained an interest in the Short Strand. I want to know how many times Kenny and Mc Dowdall and Ahern have set foot in the Short Strand? Were any Irish southern politicians there for the people of the Short Strand when they were set upon by the hostile RUC and loyalists. It is a very sad day for Ireland when politicians try to make cheap political gains by using the death of Mr Mc Cartney as a stick to beat the people of the north who vote SF. The cheek of them when they lay silent under their beds while fellow Irishmen were being killed en masse by a bigotted and sectarian NI government put in place by the illegal partitian of Ireland.
    The fools the fools..................never at peace!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,194 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    I did not notice you had posted it. Not to worry, it needed to be transcribed in full... at least only to see a different slant on things.


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