Cooling off period in Garage Sales Contract??

ozmo

A elderly female friend called into me to say she was looking at a car in Renualt garage over the weekend, on her own, and ended up buying something she didnt really want.
She paid a 500 deposit on a car - a Renault Clio 2001 that will cost her 11000 in total including the bank interest on the loan (ripoff price).
Aparently the price was 1000 cheaper until she said there was a tradein - then apparently the sticker price on the car was a misprint, but thats another story :O !

Anyway *ignoring* how wise this was or not to sign up there and then - does anyone know where i can find out here rights for her - she would _really_ _really_ like not to either buy the car or loose deposit if possible. Is it a case of just being really nice to the garage and hoping they allow her her money back or does she actually have a cooling off rights like when you buy on line etc??

She must have known at the time she didnt want it as she asked if there was a cooling off period - she was give a not very straight answer from him.

Links would be great....

Lawdie

ozmo wrote:

A elderly female friend

What age is she?
What garage?
What forms were signed?
Which finance companie?
Explain in detail the finance contract including numbers?
Did she receive a receipt?
Has she spoken to anyone in the garage (if open today)?
Was it €500 cash or credit card/cheque? (can she cancel latter?)

Its difficult to give a straight answer on this one, a fair dealer principal may giver her the money back or just offer the €500 as credit for service and parts. They may just say that the booking fee is non refundable and play hard ball.

Early communication with the garage is best and put things in writing where possible. I would also consider seeking legal advice early in the week depending on how this plays out.

Most garages are not trying to rip the customer off, however sometimes this can occur through pressure on sales dept or oppertunity of a large commission. In some defence they provide the services and receive commission for these services, some people would prefer they get nothing, thats not the way the world works.

ozmo

>What age is she?
ok not so elderly to some folk here - Late 40's.
>What garage?
Rather not say just yet, till I see how stuff works out - But it was a Renault.
>What forms were signed?
She says some triplicate form - red,yellow,some other colour. She doesnt know and she didnt read it. She didnt get a copy either. I've only ever bought privately so I dont know either.
>Which finance companie?
Personal Bank Loan to be arranged by herself.
>Explain in detail the finance contract including numbers?
8000 +Plus her old car (Old Fiesta - he valued it [generously imo] at 1500)
>Did she receive a receipt?
She has a small receipt just to say she gave 500 deposit. No mention for what.
>Has she spoken to anyone in the garage (if open today)?
Did this 15mins before closing on Sat. Garage closed today.
>Was it €500 cash or credit card/cheque? (can she cancel latter?)
I think it was cash not cheque. To cancel a cheque if it was, without permission would be dangerous imo no? - they have her address.

>Early communication with the garage is best and put things in writing where >possible. I would also consider seeking legal advice early in the week >depending on how this plays out.

>through pressure on sales dept or oppertunity of a large commission
She stated clearly this was not what she wanted (too small, wrong shape, alloys damaged etc) - but kept getting told all the good features the car had. Price is expensive for a Clio Sport, but not way out - it just not what she wanted - says she was crying leaving the showroom .

I said I'd help - if she has no rights - what do you think my approach should be?
Ask nicely? (She didnt think he was that nice to deal with first time round)
Lie (tell him loan not approved)? Both are mutually exclusive.

ZENER

As Ozmo says more info on the circumstances of the transaction are needed. That said with every credit deal there is a compulsory 7 day cooling off period so the customer may decline the credit offer when they've had a chance to think abould it. Any companies I've personally dealt with realise that they must point this out to customers and offer the customer the chance to waive their rights under the law by getting them to sign the waiver section on the credit application form.

Does she recall signing the waiver? Was it made obvious to her what she was signing, if not she may have a case and she could claim she was persuaded to sign it with it being fully explained to her.

Other than this what ozmo said sound good to me.

Edit: The form she signed sounds like the SIMI questionaire I signed on Friday when collecting my new car. It's to confirm that she has been given correct information about the car she's buying if I recall.

ZEN

sceptre

ZENER wrote:

As Ozmo says more info on the circumstances of the transaction are needed. That said with every credit deal there is a compulsory 7 day cooling off period so the customer may decline the credit offer when they've had a chance to think abould it.

This isn't a credit deal though - it's a cash deal (she's getting the money from her bank and that's the credit deal, not with the car sales place). Given that she's overpaying for the new car by a few grand (plus the value of her own car), it might be cheaper for her to walk away if it comes to it. Worth trying the "loan not approved, bugger it to hell" approach though, she may get her money back in one way or another though it's largely at the whim of the showroom. Personally I'd run with going in myself and explaining about my dothery old granny, poor old dear, can't remember the day of the week, let alone have the capacity to enter into a contract. She won't complain too much at that if she gets five hundred euros back.

If as Zener reckons, the form she signed was some SIMI questionnaire, it ight depend on what other forms she might have signed. You (both) really need to know what else she signed, which of course is difficult if they didn't bother giving her a copy.

Lawdie

sceptre wrote:

If as Zener reckons, the form she signed was some SIMI questionnaire, it ight depend on what other forms she might have signed. You (both) really need to know what else she signed, which of course is difficult if they didn't bother giving her a copy.

Firstly it was an SIMI order form, comes in two parts (with three copies carbonated) the left side is the invoice from the garage to the customer for the new(..er) vehicle, the right side is the settlement voucher (aka invoice inwards from the client to the garage).
By right the garage should of provided a copy of this form to the lady.
The receipt should of detailed what exactly the deposit was securing, date, conditions etc.

You need to ring the dealer principal now and state the high pressure sales tactics were used, if this is not going well, inform him you will seek higher ground either by talking to both the renault distributor and the SIMI complaints section. Only state this if your been fobbed off.

Before I can comment are you getting a bad deal, I've no idea what state the part exchange is or what state the Clio sport, like a few scuffs on alloys does not sound like its a write off.

Get off the boards and start talking, then post us an update.

Lawdie

ozmo wrote:

>
>Has she spoken to anyone in the garage (if open today)?
Did this 15mins before closing on Sat. Garage closed today.

OUTCOME?

ozmo wrote:

>
>Was it €500 cash or credit card/cheque? (can she cancel latter?)
I think it was cash not cheque. To cancel a cheque if it was, without permission would be dangerous imo no? - they have her address.

THIS HAPPENS ME ALL THE TIME DUE TO LACK OF FUNDS!

Boggle

From http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA24Y1995S50.html

50.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (4), a consumer may withdraw from an agreement within 10 days of receiving it or a copy thereof ("the cooling-off period") by giving written notice to this effect to the creditor or the owner, as the case may be.

(2) A consumer may forego his right to a cooling-off period in any credit agreement by signing a statement to this effect separately from any other term of the agreement.

(3) A statement by which a consumer forgoes the right to a cooling-off period shall carry in a prominent position:

"WARNING THIS WAIVER MEANS YOU ARE GIVING UP YOUR RIGHT TO A 10 DAY PERIOD TO RECONSIDER YOUR COMMITMENT TO THE AGREEMENT.".

(4) This section does not apply to a housing loan or credit availed of by means of a credit card or an overdraft facility offered by a credit institution.

Hope this is of some use to you...

ozmo

Boggle wrote:

From http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA24Y1995S50.html



Hope this is of some use to you...

Thanks for looking that up for us - its good to know she can cancel the bank loan. But there doesnt seem to be any cooling off period on the car purchase itself - unlike UK ? - I have seen it hinted at the AA uk website that they have a 3 day cooling off on car purchases.
So afaik - getting her deposit back is at the goodwill of the garage.....

ozmo

Lawdie wrote:

OUTCOME?

Quick recap - she signed papers on expensive cash+tradein deal car 15mins before closing on sat, car to be collected in a few days, then changed her minutes after.

I saw the car today - and it was a very good spec and very good condition car(for a clio, if you are into clios). But boy are clios rears ugly.

But mostly at 1.1L and physically smaller than current car - wasnt what she was looking for - Lady really couldnt afford to loose 500 so she was going to buy car and sell it elsewhere as soon as got it at a loss equal to the value of her fiesta(!). Hence she would be car-less.
I was expecting the worst going this lunchtime (1pm) to talk to the owner of the garage - just told him nothing was wrong with car, but it wasnt the car she set out to buy - too small..
He was quite anoyed, didnt hide the fact - asked me to call back in a few hours. So we left while we were ahead without pressing the issue.
Later (4pm) he calmed down and gave her a cheque back for full amount.
Very good of him considering he didnt have to do this.

Lady had been talking to consumer affairs this morning and these were the likely outcomes given to her by the legal folk there:
1. You loose deposit - most likely outcome
2. He gives you credit note off another car- unlikely but possible,
3. He gives you cash - very unlikely.

Shes now looking for an older mx5 :S

so there you go... all happy.

thanx. ozmo.

samo

I was driving past Liffey Valley Renault earlier today and was only thinking about this, its a rotten feeling agreeing to something you know is a big mstake especially if your under pressure. Glad it worked out well for her.

unkel

Glad that worked out for her

ozmo wrote:

says she was crying leaving the showroom .

That's terrible. Anyone deserves to be delighted with themselves when buying a car

Lawdie

samo wrote:

I was driving past Liffey Valley Renault earlier today and was only thinking about this, its a rotten feeling agreeing to something you know is a big mstake especially if your under pressure. Glad it worked out well for her.

Lets clarify for anyone reading the thread, the above garage was not mentioned as been the actual Renault garage.
The outcome was okay considering the alternative!

boggle wrote:

From http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA24Y1995S50.html

Just to clarify, this refers to a waiver of the right to cancel or cool off within ten days. You are signing away this right!!
This was requested by the finance companies when the original Consumer Credit Act 1995 was released in draft form. Basically, the finance companies kicked up that people could walk away from credit agreements that were signed.
Before the do-gooders and bell ringers quote this information, this protects the finance companies and banks from been heavily stung with returned vehicles.

As I've stated this is a grey messy area.......

Borzoi

ozmo wrote:

Later (4pm) he calmed down and gave her a cheque back for full amount.
Very good of him considering he didnt have to do this.
so there you go... all happy.

thanx. ozmo.

Indeed - care to name and praise the dealership?

samo

Borzoi wrote:

Indeed - care to name and praise the dealership?

I wasnt suggesting it was that dealership in fact as just said it reflects well that the manager did the decent thing whichever dealership it was!

Boggle

Whoever it was was acting on behalf of the dealership so if I'd prefer to give my business to a garage with a good history. (You can name the manager too if you want)

ozmo

Boggle wrote:

Whoever it was was acting on behalf of the dealership so if I'd prefer to give my business to a garage with a good history. (You can name the manager too if you want)

Ok so, First I'd like to say, Personally, I myself, would still like to take the risk of buying privately to try get a bargain - many prefer garages....

This garage here was Coolmine, Blanchardstown.
http://www.blanchrenault.com

The car in the deal when I saw Monday, was an absolutely imac and well spec'ed one. The owner was a decent honourable business man. premises was very impressive with nice new, huge showrooms. Pricey cars but maybe worth it for the condition/assurance?

I wasn’t there of course on the purchase day - so I don’t know if there was any pressure at all - but i think it might even have been just a bad rushed decision.


The outcome was fine with no hard feelings. I wouldnt have anything bad to say about this garage. Good guy.

ozmo.

Victor

(can she cancel latter?)

Cancelling a cheque might be construed as fraud these days.

Lawdie

Victor even if this was the case and you could call it fraud, the time,cost and effort required by the garage would negate the return by a long shot.

Also in cases of this nature and you put the lady on the stand, turn on the water works and sad story (sorry if this sounds harsh) and any judge would roll over to the consumers side!

This I've seen happen...