Luas Derailed in Smithfield

KTRIC

Yet again the Luas was in another accident last night in Smithfeild. 5 people were taken to hospital and it has yet to be confirmed who caused the accident.

See artical :

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/02/22/story190424.html

enterprise

Truck driver - as usual.

See www.garaiste.com for full details.

BrianD

enterprise wrote:

Truck driver - as usual.

See www.garaiste.com for full details.

Bit unfair ... this is the first Luas/HGV incident.

enterprise

Well as Tram drivers are highly trained professionals at their job and the fact that the truck hit the tram 1/3 down the tram by the wheelchair space my bets are on the truck driver running the red light and ploughing into the side of the tram.

Thank God nobody was serious injuried.

magpie

Anybody done any projections on the cost of pay-outs to injured LUAS passengers in its first year of operations? The thing gets rammed more often than a Belfast ATM, and presumably people are getting on the Compo wagon.

enterprise

magpie wrote:

The thing gets rammed more often

"The Thing" being the LUAS!

I would tend to disagree with that. Operations had been running smoothly for the last couple of months with no reported incidents of road vehicles hitting trams until last night. As with any system nothing is 100% safe and accidents can / and will happen from time to time.

(Media organisations take note - "ROAD VEHICLES hitting TRAMS", not the other way around)

seamus

magpie wrote:

Anybody done any projections on the cost of pay-outs to injured LUAS passengers in its first year of operations? The thing gets rammed more often than a Belfast ATM, and presumably people are getting on the Compo wagon.

Well, I assume that the majority of compo would be claimed against the other party's insurance, since it's mostly the road vehicle that's at fault. With the notable exception of trams hitting trams of course

magpie

Operations had been running smoothly for the last couple of months with no reported incidents of road vehicles hitting trams until last night

A whole couple of months without an accident? Keep up the good work lads.

jman0

What can the Luas people do about motorists behavior?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/02/22/story190460.html

"There have been a series of accidents on the Red Line from Tallaght to Connolly station, with most of them blamed on motorists jumping red lights."

enterprise

magpie wrote:

A whole couple of months without an accident? Keep up the good work lads.

No need to be condescending. It's hardly the fault of Connex when a ROAD VEHICLE DRIVER breaks a red light, thus committing an offence under the road traffic act.

Until the Gardai start penalising drivers for breaking red lights this sort of thiing will keep occuring.

sliabh

RTE is reporting 22 accidents in the first six months. Before someone spouts off about the Irish and their lack of respect for traffic laws does anyone know of data (and NOT anecdotes) from other countries?

I know the figures quoted from before the Luas launch was an estimate of about 6 deaths in the first year of operation. We do seem to be well below this.

magpie

No need to be condescending. It's hardly the fault of Connex when a ROAD VEHICLE DRIVER breaks a red light, thus committing an offence under the road traffic act.

Well, given that people are going top do it whatever, why not phase the LUAS green light so there's a couple of seconds delay to allow the junction to clear. Or even better, have LUAS drivers exercise their own discretion in not ploughing into a full junction, the way other drivers have to.

enterprise

As with any traffic light change there is a 3 sec delay from one set of lights turning red to the second set turning green / proceed.

On top of that you have the yellow light (which means stop if safe to do so people - not floor the accelator!) before the red.

Driving standards are the root cause of the problem - not traffic lights.

bringitdown

magpie wrote:

Well, given that people are going top do it whatever, why not phase the LUAS green light so there's a couple of seconds delay to allow the junction to clear. Or even better, have LUAS drivers exercise their own discretion in not ploughing into a full junction, the way other drivers have to.

What a load of crap... there is a slight delay between the red light on a crossing and the luas getting the go-ahead, regardless or that there is also an orange light for motorists to ignore.

Orange != GO FASTER YA MIGHT MAKE IT DESPITE THE GIANT TRAM THAT NEEDS TO CROSS

AAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

Honestly .. I call troll on you.

murphaph

People (read motorists) are stupid. On my journey from Tallaght to Connolly today the driver had to blow drivers out of it 4 times for obstructing the tram in one way or another. Learn to drive, control lines are to be stopped before! Yellow boxes etc. etc. Very annoying when the tram has a schedule to keep.

magpie

You know a great way to avoid traffic blocking the route? Have trains going underground.

Metrobest

Anecdotally, on the two tram lines near my house in Amsterdam I can report an accident rate of about one per month. Sometimes it's a collision with a cyclist.

sliabh wrote:

RTE is reporting 22 accidents in the first six months. Before someone spouts off about the Irish and their lack of respect for traffic laws does anyone know of data (and NOT anecdotes) from other countries?

I know the figures quoted from before the Luas launch was an estimate of about 6 deaths in the first year of operation. We do seem to be well below this.

enterprise

magpie wrote:

You know a great way to avoid traffic blocking the route? Have trains going underground.

Then it wouldn't be a tram. Trams are designed to run OVERGROUND and do so quite sucessfully if dumb-ass drivers didn't break red lights. Dublin isn't the only system to suffer such accidents. The one in Croydon has an accident about one a month, usually a road users fault.

magpie

A tram is a train that runs on the road. Same difference.

If the same thing happens in Croydon, then you can't blame it on Irish drivers, as you were in earlier posts. The problem with trams is they attempt to alleviate traffic congestion by taking up one of the lanes on the road. Brilliant.

If collisions with other road users are symptomatic of the tram experience in general then surely this tells you that trams are an unsuitable mode of transport for modern urban conditions, rather than blaming everyone else on the roads. Why not pick a form of transport that is less likely to have accidents?

Like I've always held, the LUAS was a collossal White Elephant, the spiralling costs of which could have constructed a safe, fast underground system (if we had managed to follow Madrid's example).

enterprise

magpie wrote:

Like I've always held, the LUAS was a collossal White Elephant, the spiralling costs of which could have constructed a safe, fast underground system (if we had managed to follow Madrid's example).

Collossal White Elephant:

Tell that to the 6 million people (myself included) that have used both lines since the system opened in June and September. The Green line is now carring 30,000 people a day, up from 20,000 at the start. White Elephant, I don't think so mate.

It seems clear to me that you have never stepped on board a tram in your life.

Finally - I said Drivers attitudes, I didn't mention Irish anywhere.

magpie

And a similar amount of people wouldn't have used an equivalent underground? I don't follow your logic.

And you're right, I've never been on the LUAS as it doesn't go to/from anywhere I need to be.

Might I be so bold as to deduce from your age/status that you've never driven a car, hence your militant stance on the LUAS?

enterprise

magpie wrote:

And a similar amount of people wouldn't have used an equivalent underground? I don't follow your logic.

And you're right, I've never been on the LUAS as it doesn't go to/from anywhere I need to be.

Might I be so bold as to deduce from your age/status that you've never driven a car, hence your militant stance on the LUAS?

LOL. I luvin it!

FYI I hold a full qualified drivers license. Do I drive into the city centre? No - I would be crazy to do that when I have good public transport options available to me by Connex and Dublin Bus.

murphaph

The Luas doesn't attempt to alleviate traffic congestion by taking up a traffic lane, it succeeds in alleviating traffic congestion by taking tens of thousands of people from a-b daily on a mass transit system. Do you work for the AA? Perhaps Conor Faughnan's apprentice?

The Madrid metro is seen as some sort of Holy Grail since that Professor came over here. It's a pretty rubbish metro (2 car sets commonplace) by international standards and that's why it cost so little. Trams have a place in a modern urban environment. Should we scrap the pedestrianised zones of Grafton and Henry Street because they take up roadspace?

For the record, I'm also a full licence holder. I recently ceased being a motorist however and returned to cycling/public transport as my circumstances changed and I no longer required a car to get me where I need to go.

magpie

Do I drive into the city centre? No

Mum won't let you borrow the car? But seriously, I'm glad to hear it. I think a step in the right direction would be to take a 2 mile radius from the GPO and charge €10 to bring a car into the city centre from outside that radius (like the London system), then your lovely trams could gambol freely on the empty roads.

It's a pretty rubbish metro (2 car sets commonplace) by international standards and that's why it cost so little

How many times has it crashed into cars/trucks since it was set up? How many times has it been derailed?

Should we scrap the pedestrianised zones of Grafton and Henry Street because they take up roadspace?

Pedestrianised zones are a pretty modern concept actually. You probably don't remember, but you used to be able to drive up and park on Grafton St. Making Grafton/Henry St back into working roads would be a retrograde anachronistic gesture. A bit like installing trams in the 21st century. Ding-Ding!

murphaph

Hmmm, an avid motorist is always entertaining. Just because a metro doesn't crash into things doesn't make it a good metro (not crashing into things is a basic requirement of most metros!).

FYI, London wants to re-introduce trams to complement their already well developed rail based PT system. I'm not talking about Croydon Tramlink-I'm talking about central London. Trams are very people friendly-no descending stairs etc, just hop on hop off. Vehicles are not people friendly. Simple really.

enterprise

magpie wrote:

Mum won't let you borrow the car?

HA HA - Very funny! You mite be shocked to learn :eek: :eek: that I have surpassed that stage. I live with my partner actually.

And I agree with you - Congestion Charging should be introduced in the inner cordon area of the city. Now that would be nice - but thats a topic for another day to have a battle about!

enterprise

murphaph wrote:

Hmmm, an avid motorist is always entertaining.

FYI, London wants to re-introduce trams to complement their already well developed rail based PT system. I'm not talking about Croydon Tramlink-I'm talking about central London. Trams are very people friendly-no descending stairs etc, just hop on hop off. Vehicles are not people friendly. Simple really.

Indeed it is!

London has two schemes in the pipe line. A cross-river tram running from Kings Cross and Camden, via Euston and Waterloo, to Peckham and Brixton and a West London Tram system running from Shepherd’s Bush to Uxbridge. This line would run along the A4020, the Uxbridge Road, through Acton, Ealing, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall and Hayes End.

More details on both systems may be found at:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/initiatives/ini_index.shtml

magpie

Hmmm, an avid motorist is always entertaining

FYI (as you keep saying in a 'Murphy Brown' kind of way) I'm an avid pedestrian. Unfortunately I have to drive somewhere maybe once/twice a week. If I had to go to Tallaght from Connolly or Sandyford from Stephens Green I'm sure the LUAS would be tip-top, but I don't.

Just because a metro doesn't crash into things doesn't make it a good metro (not crashing into things is a basic requirement of most metros!).

As opposed to trams, where it is clearly accepted as 'teething pains'.

And I agree with you - Congestion Charging should be introduced in the inner cordon area of the city. Now that would be nice - but thats a topic for another day to have a battle about!

Good, we're agreed then.

BrianD

magpie wrote:

A tram is a train that runs on the road. Same difference. If the same thing happens in Croydon, then you can't blame it on Irish drivers, as you were in earlier posts. The problem with trams is they attempt to alleviate traffic congestion by taking up one of the lanes on the road.
Brilliant.

A tram is not the same as a train. I suspect that you are one of the people who can't understand the rationale behind 24 hour bus lanes and complain about them. In reality, the number of places where either line takes up road space is very limited or does not make much difference. Take the red line - much of if is on its own reservation (centre of Naas Rd, canal bank and the section from the red cow to Tallaght etc.) where it does run on street it is not on a primary through way e.g. the routing from Collins Barracks to Connolly. East-west traffic runs via the quays or the NCR. The red line routing was never a through way. On the green line you lose 2 lanes of a one way st.

A comparison was done between the intoduction of the luas in Dublin and a similar system in a French city. While there was a number of incidents when the French line was open it was nothing compared to what was happening in Dublin. The main reason was that Irish drivers have a high propensity to break a red light. Its often that a number of cars will go through the light seconds after is has go to red.

magpie wrote:

If collisions with other road users are symptomatic of the tram experience in general then surely this tells you that trams are an unsuitable mode of transport for modern urban conditions, rather than blaming everyone else on the roads. Why not pick a form of transport that is less likely to have accidents?

There have been few accidents on the Luas lines. The red light jumpers are deliberate actions by motorists. The incident involving trams on the green line was a similar deliberate action. Why are trams being introduced (sometimes re-introduced) in cities all over Europe and North America?

magpie wrote:

Like I've always held, the LUAS was a collossal White Elephant, the spiralling costs of which could have constructed a safe, fast underground system (if we had managed to follow Madrid's example).

The words rip-roaring success come to mind for both lines. Trams are very suited to Dublin. A sole metro line to the airport - now that's a white elephant!

magpie wrote:

How many times has it crashed into cars/trucks since it was set up? How many times has it been derailed?

How many times have cars/trucks crashed into it (not the other way around)? Very few when you take the number of journies. Very few derailments as well. Derailments are to be expected from any train/tram network. Are you aware how many derailments Irish Rail or any other rail operator has per week? IR have 3-4 on average - most are insignificant.

Lennoxschips

I've never been much of a fan of trams in the crowded streets of the city. In Amsterdam the bike beats the tram hands down from any destination to any destination within the city ventre.

In the suburbs, where the trams run along dedicated corridors, they are great though.

MrPudding

magpie wrote:

If collisions with other road users are symptomatic of the tram experience in general then surely this tells you that trams are an unsuitable mode of transport for modern urban conditions, rather than blaming everyone else on the roads. Why not pick a form of transport that is less likely to have accidents?

How about we introduce some kind of system whereby the use of a junction is staggered? People could take turns to use it. We would need some kind of changing signs that would let people know whos turn it was, perhaps lights so it would also work in the dark. Yeah we could call them traffic control lights.... no too long, just traffic lights. Yeah traffic lights. We could even incorporate an international standard into the system so even visitors to our country could understand it. I read somewhere that is most civilised, and some other developing countries they use a series of 3 lights. Green when you can go, amber top get ready to stop (and in some countries to get ready to go) and red to stop. That way when a Luas is crossing the junction you could make the traffic have a red light so the vehicles wouldn't drive into the side of it.

What do you think? Could it catch on? I think it is simple enough, when you see a red light stop you car.

MrP

murphaph

@MrP:

Victor

jman0 wrote:

What can the Luas people do about motorists behavior?

Run freight trains. Get he Darwinism over sooner.

sliabh wrote:

RTE is reporting 22 accidents in the first six months.

I wonder if that includes the kid who fell off his bike when he saw a tram in the distance.

Of course, there are 20,000 reported road traffic accidents (150,000 insurance claims) per year killing about 400 people.

magpie

Ok, so you're all saying the same thing in an absurdly circumlocutious/pedantic/smart arse manner:

"Trams are good. There are only tram accidents because car drivers are bad and they break lights."

Given that we all know that Irish Drivers are bad, and they will never change, surely it would have made sense to have an underground system whereby drivers are not involved in the scenario and you minimise/eliminate the chance of accidents happening. Like I said, how many collisions has the Madrid Metro been involved in? How much does it cost every time the tram crashes into something? (regardless of who's fault it is). Sitting on your high horses distributing blame does not solve the issue.

Here's a website you will all probably love. See you in 'The Tramspotters' for a real ale. http://www.croydon-tramlink.co.uk/report/opening/meeting.shtml

Of course, there are 20,000 reported road traffic accidents (150,000 insurance claims) per year killing about 400 people.

Is that nationwide? If so the statistic proves absolutely nothing. Give me some statistics on the number of fatal road accidents per annum along the stretches of road that the tram now runs along, and that would be vaguely pertinent. But of course, not quite as sensational.

jman0

I don't see anybody arguing against an underground.
Rather they are defending the Luas.
I believe having multiple public trans systems in operation would and is, best.
Buses, trams, undergrounds, what else is there?
But i suspect the cost of an underground may be prohibitive to building one.

bringitdown

"Given that we all know that Irish Drivers are bad, and they will never change"

Why not make private car ownership illegal, invest every cent of the NRA budget into public trransport, and fup anyone who wants different. At least that way "public at large " can't crash into things cos all of them clearly wish to.

You are crying over spilt milk, I do not argue the merits of a Metro vs. a Tram, metros are often way ahead of the game, trams have their benefits etc. etc. I do wish we had both a metro system, a tram system in fact hold on we should have an integrated public transport system for Dublin but we don't.

What we do have however is a tram system that is continually being shutdown due to driver error, and not on the part of the tram on the part of the muppet who crashed into the tram. There is no debate here on Tram vs Metro. The is no debate here on what you think should be in place.

We are discussing the habits of the Irish driver and their foe the humble tram. Your solution, it would seem, is to rip up the Luas and build a metro because "we all know that Irish Drivers are bad, and they will never change".

I say they can, given the incentive - for example you cause a Luas crash you'd better get used to the Luas cos it'll be one of the modes of transport available to you when you loose your license.

magpie

Granted, the mistake of building a tram rather than an underground has been made. So how to minimise accidents?

My suggestion is to re-phase traffic lights at junctions to allow extra time for them to clear, especially in areas where accidents are more frequent like Smithfield. And I don't mean longer amber light periods. I mean having a 1 minute red light in both directions before the tram sets off. Why not also put in level crossing gates where practical?

Unfortunately this suggestion was met by (in the voice of Comic Store Guy from the Simpsons) "I believe what you are referring to are traffic lights which have been in place I believe for some time... chuckle chuckle" ROFL ROFL Hoot etc.

Why not make private car ownership illegal, invest every cent of the NRA budget into public trransport, and fup anyone who wants different.

This confirms what I had hitherto suspected in you, a secret desire to Sovietise public transport

bringitdown

magpie wrote:

My suggestion is to re-phase traffic lights at junctions to allow extra time for them to clear, especially in areas where accidents are more frequent like Smithfield. Why not also put in level crossing gates where practical?

It is hardly valid for all the comic book guy reasons, ROFLs and LOLs... and for the reason mentioned youself:

magpie wrote:

we all know that Irish Drivers are bad, and they will never change

If the driver cannot change/learn to use existing systems how the hell do you expect them to learn and change to handle a brand new one?

/pedantic

i.e. putting a new system in place assumes the driver can adapt and change to use it, if you accept that then why then not just "help" the driver adapt / change to the current on and save some money, time, arguments, planning hearings, public floggings etc.

LOL: an alternative suggestion from a collegue, if light equals red then a reinforced concrete wall shall emerge in front of a luas crossing therefore protecting the tram and hindering muppetry.

magpie

So there's clearly no solution, as Irish Drivers are useless/reckless.

So back to my original point, why the **** build a system that gets shut down through driver errror on a daily basis? It's not as if the standard of Irish driving is news to anyone....

The only way to avoid these kinds of collisions are as follows:

1) That all drivers are killed/banned from driving through a process of attrition at a rate of 1 per day colliding with trams until trams are the only things left on the road. (oddly, the only solution you lot sem to be putting forward).

2) Re-phase traffic lights for longer red periods. Drivers do not drive through 'red' lights, they only zoom through amber changing to red. If it's red for a minute or more they won't go 'ah **** it' and break it.

3) Have level crossings where appropriate.

4) Have multilevel tram system (as in Boston for instance). have trams dip under or over road intersections, thus no need to even stop at traffic lights.

5) Have traffic cops / tram staff / whoever at dangerous intersections to ensure they are cleared properly. Cops were doing this at the top of Davitt Road for a while.

light equals red then a reinforced concrete wall shall emerge in front of a luas crossing therefore protecting the tram and hindering muppetry.

Yes, a bit like a level crossing. The DART line has them you know, with the result that it doesn't hit/get hit by cars.

jman0

magpie wrote:

My suggestion is to re-phase traffic lights at junctions to allow extra time for them to clear

Since motorists choose to break the law in the first place, probably after having gotten used to the 3 second delay between their Red light and the opposing traffic's Green, I fail to see why motorists won't similarly get used to the added delay you propose, and continue their bad driving habits?
Can you explain how or why the motorists won't just adapt and continue doing what they already are doing?

Surely the best solution is to educate those motorists, and bring the hammer down on them when they cause such an accident.

bringitdown

magpie wrote:

Yes, a bit like a level crossing. The DART line has them you know, with the result that it doesn't hit/get hit by cars.

Merrion gates are often compromised. For example.

magpie

True.

OK, what about going under/over roads?

enterprise

magpie wrote:

Here's a website you will all probably love. See you in 'The Tramspotters' for a real ale. http://www.croydon-tramlink.co.uk/report/opening/meeting.shtml

Thats a great Website! Im also a member of the Yahoo group.

sliabh

jman0 wrote:

Surely the best solution is to educate those motorists, and bring the hammer down on them when they cause such an accident.

Lots of negative publicity for the muppets causing the crashes wouldn't hurt either.

Headlines like "Motorist convicted of dangerous driving for breaking red light and crashing into Luas" and "Motorist hit with €250,000 bill for crashing into Luas" would get people's attention

bringitdown

magpie wrote:

OK, what about going under/over roads?

A good compromise but a silly amount of money for a solution to a mentality / cultural problem.

For example: disregard the LUAS, if the truck had slammed into a car make a normal crossing after the light had turned green in his favour would you be calling for over / underpasses at every crossing... I doubt it.

MrPudding

magpie wrote:

Drivers do not drive through 'red' lights, they only zoom through amber changing to red. If it's red for a minute or more they won't go 'ah **** it' and break it.

This is total bull. They do drive through red lights. I see it everyday. If you leave longer gaps more people will drive through the reds as they will know they have a longer period of grace.

I sickens me that you are suggesting that because some idiots cannot adhere to one of the more simple rules of the road, a system that is being used by a growing number of people is crap or should be scrapped. Bravo, what are you planning for an encore? I have some suggestions for you.

• How about we ban females as they encourage rape.
• We could ban personal possessions as they encourage theft.
• Maybe we should also ban foreign people as it causes racism.

Magpie, do you never get tired of blaming peoples law breaking on anything other than the people actually making the decision to break the law?

MrP

Metrobest

I think accidents on the Red line will settle down over time. I think there should be HUGE signs as drivers approach a tram junction. A lot of people have still to become familiar with the route of the Red Line. In Amsterdam three tram lines glide along the busy pedestrianised Leidse Street (the equivilent of Henry Street) and I have not heard of any accidents. People basically are used to the trams' presence. Even the stoned tourists!

What amuses me is the level of 'glamour' that has attached itself to the LUAS Green line. People talk of the Sandyford tram as though it were a five star space shuttle. The "I-can't-talk-right-now, I'm-On-The-LUAS!" mentality has crept in. Compared to Metro on-street trams are an inferior product. In Amsterdam many people see the trams as only for people on social welfare! Why would you not just cycle your bike, is the attitude.

enterprise

magpie wrote:

Like I've always held, the LUAS was a collossal White Elephant, the spiralling costs of which could have constructed a safe, fast underground system (if we had managed to follow Madrid's example).

Some figures I've obtained from the RPA to prove that the LUAS is not a white elephant.

- 70,000 people travelled on the Red and Green lines on Friday 17th Dec. The busiest day so far on the system.

- 1.8 million journeys on both lines in December.

- 6 Million journeys on LUAS upto the end of year.
- Broken down into 4 Million of Green Line, 2 Million on Red Line.

- Major boost for businesses in the city centre, Grafton Street area up by 20%, Thursday nights have seen a 30% increase in late night shopping compared to 2003.

- Feedback from traders, residents and the public at large has been wonderful and requests are flooding in for new extensions to various parts of the city.

- RPA expect to have 20 million journeys in 2005 after enhancements to the Red Line to increase capacity.

- Green Line average daily journeys is 30,000 per day, up from 20,000 per day when opened in June, with a weekly average of 160,000. Saturday is the busiest day on the Green line.

- Red Line average weekly journeys is 180,000 per week after the 13th week of operation.

seamus

MrPudding wrote:

This is total bull. They do drive through red lights. I see it everyday.

Not only that, you get people who drive through lights that have been red for 30 seconds or more. And not even rushing either. I've seen people blatantly drive slowly through lights that have been red for ages.

Simple solution? Bollards. When the lights go red, bollards instantly shoot up from the ground, where the white line is. If you get impaled or crash, it's your own fault. I'd love to see anyone have the balls to accelerate to beat the lights then.

Naturally emergency vehicles would have transmitters to allow them to lower said bollards.

jlang

Personally, I think the answer might be to do the opposite from what is suggested above: shorten the time between signals going red and the next phase going green, not just at Luas junctions but across the entire system. It's one thing I notice when driving in several other countries - the other stream of traffic goes green basically as soon as you've gone red. When that's the case, you'll know damn well to stop when you see amber, and also to get going as soon as you get the green (another bugbear of mine when second in line at lights - people here seem to dawdle interminably when they get the green). There's too much slack time in the traffic light system here, people know this and have got used to running reds and delaying on greens and they get away with it all the time except for untold numbers of near misses and when they come up against a vehicle with restricted emergency avoidance capability, a tram!

Of course, you'd need enormous publicity attached to the change, just as when the penalty points came in - and remember, people did drive more slowly then. For a while anyway, before complacency set in again, but that wouldn't happen with traffic crossing your path 1 second after your light goes red.

Probably a few red-light-runner catching cameras wouldn't hurt but the problem with any system like that is that it can't cover every junction and once people know where they are, they equally know where they're not likely to get caught.

MrPudding

jlang wrote:

Personally, I think the answer might be to do the opposite from what is suggested above: shorten the time between signals going red and the next phase going green, not just at Luas junctions but across the entire system.

Agreed. I think a good start would be to introduce an amber before green. This will allow people to prepare to go. This coul dbe introduced without changing the actual timing of the lights and should improve the number of cars that can pass through a set of lights on green.

I heard it suggested to the DCC traffic guy on the Right Hook, he said they believed that it should speed up traffic but coul dnot be introduced here due to the frequency of light jumping.

MrP