Utd-Milan (prob contain scores)

L5

talla wrote:

L5 cool it! Back to talking about the match

point taken, no need for fade2black to jump on peoples back for posting their views on the match though.

L5

So who can united sign for goals. Theyve had 9 keepers since schmeichel according to the commentary on rte. Of those Barthez was the best, but he was too eccentric. One of the italian keepers i think, buffon would be my choice. Not that they'd get him though.

eirebhoy

talla wrote:

Bring back Ricardo i say
Did Carroll sign that contract extension??

No. According to the Sun he rejected another off recently and looks certain to leave in the summer. I don't think he has confidence in himself if he wants to leave a club like United when he's first choice (well, before tonight).

talla

L5 wrote:

point taken, no need for fade2black to jump on peoples back for posting their views on the match though.

No there wasnt, which i why i warned him to drop it as well earlier.

talla

L5 wrote:

So who can united sign for goals. Theyve had 9 keepers since schmeichel according to the commentary on rte. Of those Barthez was the best, but he was too eccentric. One of the italian keepers i think, buffon would be my choice. Not that they'd get him though.

i think Given is the only realistic target around.

L5

talla wrote:

i think Given is the only realistic target around.

I think so too, although he's very loyal to Newcastle, would be very hard to persuade him to leave them.

talla

eirebhoy wrote:

No. According to the Sun he rejected another off recently and looks certain to leave in the summer. I don't think he has confidence in himself if he wants to leave a club like United when he's first choice (well, before tonight).

Well thats one consolation then !

eyerer

Big Ears wrote:

I predict a 0-1 , Crespo the scorer .

*theme from twilight zone*

Brian017

Could've being oh so different if Scholes and/or Fortune scored.

Memnoch

Milan really showed their class today. However they did seem to lack conviction in front of goal and despite an abysmal performance United could have kept milan to a draw.

Enough has been said about Carol already so I won't get into that, one can only feel sorry for the poor bloke.

For me United's best player on the pitch was Heinze who not only defended superbly but also came forward several times to try and get something going.

Ronaldo was horrible as was Rooney. I think a lot of people were talking their players up and out of proportion as if they were going to dominate players of the quality of maldini and Nesta. I think the defenders certainly answered all the points raised on the pitch today.

Despite this poor performance united should be questioning the poor quality of finishing and not putting away the two easy chances they had in front of goal.

As for the refreeing overall it was pretty decent, but I think that there could have been cause for a penalty when Kaka went down in United's area. The replay showed clear contact from Heinze's challenge. Even the commentator remarked that it was AT LEAST a free kick.

The one thing that annoyed me though, was in a lot of 50-50 challenges when the decision went Uniteds way they didn't seem to show the replay. So many times I wanted to watch an incident again because there was doubt in my mind about the decision, but the replay just wasn't shown. Perhaps just poor coverage from RTE 2?

For 26 million pounds, Rooney certainly didn't look worth that much to me on the pitch today. yes he is a decent srtiker, but for that kind of money you'd expect him to produce at least something or do something with the ball. That money could have been better spent on getting United a proper keeper of the likes of Buffon or even Cudicini.

Dewey

I'm not going to talk about THAT Keeper ever again. United have to buy a soild keeper in the summer. I would say Shay Given, over 60 international caps and he was the reason Newcastle lose 1-0 instead of 4-0 against Arsenal a few weeks back.

Anyway i was disappointed with the formation of United. 4-5-1 at home???. To much respect for Milan. it should of been a 4-4-1-1 with Rooney behind the striker. United were poor all over the place and why was Fortune playing?? he is so poor it is unreal. He was on the ball the most for United.

United arent out of the Champions League just yet, if they score in the first 25 minutes they will have a great chance of going into the next round but Fergie has to change to negivtive tactics.

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

LOL United it is so.

I was actually thinking Milan.

A good game of football, if only there was some more decent chances it would have had everything. Milan really struted their stuff, but lacked that edge which Im sure Shevchenko will provide in the return leg (if fit).

While United didnt play the best, a 0-1 scoreline is hardly a mountain. I would have no doubt that United are capable of scoring in Milan. Its still very much game on, and sets it up nicely for two weeks time.

Slash/ED

AC Milans passing was, at times, outstanding. They simply passed Man U off the park at times, add Shev into that team and they're capable of beating anyone. If he's back and fully fit for the second leg than Man U have no chance, mind you they've very very little chance anyway.

Memnoch

yup, its do or die now for Utd in a couple of weeks time. Now is the time for players like rooney and ronaldo to make their mark and stand up and be counted.

I'd love for them to prove me and their critics wrong by performing where it counts. 1 goal down is certainly not insurmountable by any means.

However the way united and milan played today, add to that the AWAY goal advantage that Milan have, one feels that they are now definate favorites to go through.

If Shevy returns for leg at San Sero then United are going to be really tested. Today even though they played well, Milan rarely troubled United's goal.

fade2black

L5 wrote:

go somewhere else then. Its an open forum, people have a right to post their own views. You have the right to piss off somewhere else

Apologies. Immediately after a match may not be the best time to start posting.

Chucky the tree

Another point.

lyon beat werder breman 3-0 tonight, if only fergie took fenerbache seriously, they would be into the quarter finals now.

Jivin Turkey

Memnoch wrote:

add to that the AWAY goal advantage that Milan have, one feels that they are now definate favorites to go through.

Milans "away" goal is meaningless. United have to score regardless to level the tie and then they both have one away goal.

LegacyUser

Dewey wrote:

United were poor all over the place and why was Fortune playing?? he is so poor it is unreal. He was on the ball the most for United.

Fortune was one of our best players tonight. He lost his balance in front of goal and did fantastically well to even get a shot...Do not blame him.

I predict Utd to win in Milan. Dissapointed with Rooney and Ronaldo but then again I think too much is being expected of them. Seedorf looked class for Milan as did Kaka at times.

BKtje

I thought fortune was pretty good tonight and was very unlucky not to score. He was off balance and had to stretch a bit.

I cant believe scholes didnt even hit the target.
I also dont think that 4-5-1 is the way to go at home. I really dont. If you dont want a ful 4-4-2 then go 4-4-1-1 as was suggested. A home tie should really be won or at least have a go at it

Its tough but very much doable!

PHB

I want Carolls head on a plate.

Milan had no decent oppurtunities to score beforethe goal whatsoever, he gifted it to them.

Fortune was the best player on the pitch by a long way, what game were you watching Dewey?

How he even managed to control the pass from Ronaldo is beyond me.

United had one decent chance in the game imo, Scholes in the first 16 mins.
There is only one player in teh world I want that ball to fall to, and its shcoles, and he didn't score

Ronaldo did fairly well I thought, I didn't see him do a thing wrong, worked the ball well, made the right choices.
Rooney was a bit alone up there, is still a bit out of his league imo vs arguably the most experienced defense in the whole world.

Keano, Scholes, Giggs all didn't preform tonight.
Slyvester looked dodgy when he came on.
Brown + Rio did great I think, they'll do well in the future.

Kaka was selfish, milan could have had 3.
Crespo played ok, but didnt do very well imo.
Cafu was a huge threat on the wings, and he always managed to ensure that the ball went out of play when he commited himself, very impressive.
Seedorf's freekick was amazing, and he created the goal.

---

Can United get 1-0 in the San Siro? Maybe, but I doubt it.
Can United win 2-1? I think thats what they have to do.
Schev is too good not to score or create a goal, so the question is whether they can score two.

We'll see.

Liverpool, the worst of the four english teams, always had the best chance of goign through, and it looks like they will
Its a funny world, what would Gerrard do if all 3 got knoicked otu but Liverpool didnt

Davey Devil

Did anyone listen to Niall Quinn talk total crap in the commentry box? I loved Quinner as a player but Sky have to give him the boot. He was defending Carroll saying the shot from Seedorf was swerving all over the place. It was well struck but the ball was straight as an arrow. Was he watching the right game??

Over on RTE Dunphy let rip after the game, totally tore into Ferguson's tactical mess. I'm not a fan of Dunphy but he was spot on. Best part of the night. I'm sick of listening to ITV and Sky go on about how strong the standard of the Premiership is. Hopefully in two weeks the English teams are finished off and let the real quality battle it out.

The Rooster

Frustrating way to lose, but I wouldnt be too downhearted. In fact I'd be happy enough that Milan didnt come away with a 0-2 win.

United will defo score in Milan - probably more than one. Dida is worse that Carroll, he's probably worse than Dudek. United play much much better when they need to score. Of course they'll need to be solid defensively

KdjaCL

Possibly the most entertaining game i have seen iin the CL this season, both teams in the 1st half were superb especially Kaka and Fortune, as the game was fairly open there were chances, both teams had at least 20 world class between them and in the 2nd it was still good stuff just more tactical.

Utd played possibly their best CL football against the best opposition around, Milan were class as were Utd. Shame a stupid goal settled it. Tbh a 0-0 was a fair result for both teams, would have set up the 2nd leg for another cracking game but sadly cant see Utd stopping Milan scoring away. They will score but wont stop Milan.


kdjac

dirkey_wynne

Memnoch wrote:

For 26 million pounds, Rooney certainly didn't look worth that much to me on the pitch today. yes he is a decent srtiker, but for that kind of money you'd expect him to produce at least something or do something with the ball. That money could have been better spent on getting United a proper keeper of the likes of Buffon or even Cudicini.

Haha. This is hilarious. A 19 y/o in probably the biggest game of his career so far, against a defence which has more experience than he has years in the world, playing up front, on his own, no support, no service. What do you want him to do? Take them on, on his own? Yeah, of course, for 26 Mill he should be collecting the ball from Rio and carving through the entire Milan team before rounding Dida and tucking it away. This really is hilarious. He was terrible last night. But it's not like Zidane, Ronaldinho etc ever have poor games! oh no. Or Figo. haha.

dirkey_wynne

Dewey wrote:

I'm not going to talk about THAT Keeper ever again. United have to buy a soild keeper in the summer. I would say Shay Given, over 60 international caps and he was the reason Newcastle lose 1-0 instead of 4-0 against Arsenal a few weeks back.

Anyway i was disappointed with the formation of United. 4-5-1 at home???. To much respect for Milan. it should of been a 4-4-1-1 with Rooney behind the striker. United were poor all over the place and why was Fortune playing?? he is so poor it is unreal. He was on the ball the most for United.

QUOTE]
Fortune was probably our best player.

KdjaCL

Davey Devil wrote:

Over on RTE Dunphy let rip after the game, totally tore into Ferguson's tactical mess. I'm not a fan of Dunphy but he was spot on. Best part of the night. I'm sick of listening to ITV and Sky go on about how strong the standard of the Premiership is. Hopefully in two weeks the English teams are finished off and let the real quality battle it out.

Odd i thought the exact opposite, Utds tactics were spot on. Milan were a class team who came to win and utd played to win also, 1st half both teams allowed the other to play, was only the 2nd when they went man for man that it was a tactical success for Utd up until the goal they were more likley to score.

Just game was ruined by a stupid goal.

kdjac

dirkey_wynne

Davey Devil wrote:

Did anyone listen to Niall Quinn talk total crap in the commentry box? I loved Quinner as a player but Sky have to give him the boot. He was defending Carroll saying the shot from Seedorf was swerving all over the place. It was well struck but the ball was straight as an arrow. Was he watching the right game??

Over on RTE Dunphy let rip after the game, totally tore into Ferguson's tactical mess. I'm not a fan of Dunphy but he was spot on. Best part of the night. I'm sick of listening to ITV and Sky go on about how strong the standard of the Premiership is. Hopefully in two weeks the English teams are finished off and let the real quality battle it out.

Yeah, I was listening to Mr Positive also - switched at half time, as the picture was afew seconds ahead on Sky. He is way too positive. He never criticises anyone. He wrecks the head. It was a routine take for a 2nd division keeper, let alone an international playing in the CL!

kaimera

I think this sums up Carrolls performace last night ::

A good keeper will save everything he is expected to do.
A great keeper will do that and more
A good dodgy keeper will make amazing saves then **** up for no reason, Barthez is the best example of this.

Carroll is just below the level of a good dodgy keeper

funny how things have a way of biting you in the ass.

mr_angry

If United want to win in Milan, they really have to sort out their passing in the middle of the field. Milan gave them a right lesson last night in intricate, 2-touch passing. There wasn't a player in white that was afraid to put his foot on the ball and pick out a team-mate. In contrast, every time I saw Wes Brown, Paul Scholes, or Ryan Giggs on the ball, they looked like they were gonna f*ck up every time.

If that carries on in the San Siro, Milan will just pass them off the park for a second time, and probably do more scoring in the process.

PHB

Yeh that would be an accurate description of Caroll, I think Howard is like Barthez though

I've calmed down a little.
I thought Utd played well tbh, hence why I was so angry.
Milan didn't have a decent chance before the goal at all, not one! What more can you ask?
Utd had two chances and didn't put it away.

Fergies tactics were good I felt, he blocked off any Milan attack and allowed Utd to break on two big counter attacks, both involving fortune, on another day both of those goals owuld have went in, and if one of them had gone in, Utd could have easily scored more on the break.

Can Utd score in Milan?
Van Nist will have played 2 more games by then, back to almost full fitness.
United will have to go with a 4-4-2, which is apparently what people think Fergie is doign wrong, and will have to go out to win the game.
It'll be very very very very tough, and even I'm not sure we can do it.

yop

Tie is far from over, if Fergie cops on and plays 2 up front in the away leg, which I suspect he will, then United will score. TBH Milan had not a major threat, Fortune and Scholes had the best chances of the game,
Playing Rooney up front on his own is pointless, when you have Giggs and his "could not be ars*d" attitude this formation will never work.
Carroll - terrible keeper, should never see the jersey again

BaZmO*

I was absolutely gutted when Milan scored last night as I couldn't see Utd. getting one back. The thing about Carroll is that goalkeepers are judged by the amount of mistakes that they make, and quite frankly he makes more than his fair share of mistakes. And when you have a keeper thats prone to silly mistakes it filters down to the rest of the defence. He's got to go. They should've went for Van der Sar in the transfer window or they should try for Given in the Summer.

Utd's biggest problem last night is that they gave the ball away too cheaply which is not good enough at this level. I thought it was quite ironic that Fortune had such a good game when most of the others had howlers. Although he does seem to be hitting good form overall.

B.

mr_angry

PHB wrote:

I thought Utd played well tbh, hence why I was so angry.
Milan didn't have a decent chance before the goal at all, not one! What more can you ask?
Utd had two chances and didn't put it away.

Maybe you missed the chance that Crespo skied over the bar from 8 yards just before the goal? Or the one that Kaka hit wide just afterwards? Or the chance that Kaka had to put Crespo in for a tap-in before trying to beat Carroll at his near post?

Milan had plenty of chances to put the tie to bed there and then.

Iago

So much was wrong about last night that I don't know where to start (haven't read the previous posts so apologies in advance if I go over old ground)

Ferguson got the formation all wrong (again) I just don't agree with his 4-5-1 formation in Europe. Had we been playing in the San Siro and he played that formation I could at least understand it, playing at home we need to be playing a 4-4-2 formation. He's tried using that formation in Europe for the last 5-6 years without succes, at some point he's going to have to drop it.

IF he absolutely positively has to play that formation then Rooney is not the man to spearhead it. Rooney isn't a centre forward, he's wasted in that position. We need to start with Ruud or Saha up front with Rooney playing behind one of them and in front of the midfield. It's the same problem that Ferguson spent a year trying to figure out with Paul Scholes, why would the most prolific midfielder united have, have such trouble scoring goals when played further up the pitch? It's simple Scholes scores by making breaks from midfield and not getting picked up, you play him up front and you lose that part of his game and he becomes too easy to mark.

At half-time he should have taken Giggs off not Ronaldo, The second half was really going to test the legs of the milan defence and Ronaldo was the player that could take advantage of it. Giggs was rubbish last night, no excuses for how badly he played. He offered us nothing and should have been taken off at half-time.

In midfield both Keane and Scholes sat far too deep for most of the match, we conceded too much ground and possesion to Milan. It was like we were the away team, I've never seen anything like it. Keane played ok, but wasn't inspirational, he didn't do much wrong, but then he didn't exactly set the pitch alight either.

There's not much I can say about the goal, Carroll's a joke. United should sign either Issaksson, Pletisoka or Frey over the summer. Won't cost a fortune, you could get any of them for around £5-6M. It's a must, sign two of them if you can.

The only bright points that came out of last night were the performances of Heinze and Brown. Heinze is looking like the best buy united have made for a number of years, solid as a rock all night and still going hard at the very end. Brown's form has been excellent over recent weeks and I think we're finally seeing why ferguson has repeatedly called him "the best centre half prospect in britain" hopefully he can stay fit and injury free now. Then we can sell Silvestre and use the money to buy on of the keepers mentioned above.

The 2nd leg in Milan is going to be very tough, Stam will be back to bolster their defence and Shevchenko may well play and cause us problems at the back.

Carroll

Neville Ferdinand Brown Heinze


Ronaldo Scholes Keane Giggs


Rooney

Van Nistlerooy

If we play that team and formation, then I believe we can score 2 goals in Milan, and I think 2 will be enough. It's going to be tough and we've made it as hard as possible for ourselves, but I still think we can go through to the next round

PHB

Maybe you missed the chance that Crespo skied over the bar from 8 yards just before the goal? Or the one that Kaka hit wide just afterwards? Or the chance that Kaka had to put Crespo in for a tap-in before trying to beat Carroll at his near post?

The first one wasn't a decent chance, and it would have taken something special to score. The other two were after the goal as I was saying.

p.s. the reason Fergie didn't buy Van der Saar or Given, is because he is tryingto build for the future, and those guys are old. Given is 29 now , van der saar must be 34?
He wants a good young keeper, but can't seem to find one

kaimera

or he doesn't want to blow a double digit figure on bringing a great keeper to Utd?

dont think Frey would go too cheaply [imo he's a brilliant keeper]

PHB

or he doesn't want to blow a double digit figure on bringing a great keeper to Utd?

Why pay 10 mill for given for only 3 years, when if you wait till summer you can pay 10 mill for someone for 10 years, is his thinking.

---

I just remembered somethign else, did anyone else watching the Utd match feel like United were teh away team. Every single 50-50 decision seemed to go uniteds way, without unied not getting little things like keane giving away a free kick when he got the ball, or rooney not getting a corner. It seemed to be pissing off the united team quite a bit. not bitching or anything, it didn't hugely change the game, but I always find it amusing the difference in European ref standerds to English rep standerds, where in europe you get some amazing and some **** refs(I heard the chelsea ref was a joke aswell), but in English you get an nice level of average from everyone

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

p.s. the reason Fergie didn't buy Van der Saar or Given, is because he is tryingto build for the future, and those guys are old. Given is 29 now , van der saar must be 34?

Fair enough about VDS. But 29 is hardly over the hill for a keeper!

B.

johnor

Yea, united were poor. Milan's game plan seemed to work to a tee. The tie isnt over at 0-1 tho..... surely fergie has to go 4-4-2 at Milan in two weeks time? Still believe if he gets a preformance from scholes, giggs, ronaldo, roo, rvn they can beat most teams....milan just shut them down completely early on...

as i said dont believe the tie is over, a big united preformance needed tho...

talla

PHB wrote:

Why pay 10 mill for given for only 3 years, when if you wait till summer you can pay 10 mill for someone for 10 years, is his thinking.

Come on now, you're taking the piss. when does a keeper ever retire when he's 32. Most Keepers are only just beginning to reach their prime at the age of 32 -33.

PHB

Schmiecal
Fergie wants a Cech style keeper, and while he may be forced to buy someone like Given, he doesn't want to rush into it, and tbh I agree with him.
I want another Schmiecal, maybe we should buy Kasper

Pigman II

Darn those niggling details called tactics! Dya know if Bohemians just got their tactics right over the past couple of seasons we'd be European champions right now! :rolleyes:

It's always convenient to blame a teams failures and shortcomings on 'tactics' when it's clear to anyone with an impartial set of eyes watching last nights game that United were just second best 'on the night' ... as (it should be said) they would also be again if had to play Milan today, tommorow or next week with 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 8-1-1 or whatever/whomever you like.

Premiership teams (Chelsea perhaps being the only exception) are out of their depth at this level and it's about time they finally admitted it to themselves if they have any ambition of ever being the big dogs in Europe. Even Liverpool (who won on Tuesday) were less than convincing and I'd personally only rate them 3rd most likely of the four english teams remaining to make the QF.

All in all a sad state of affairs for the so-called best league in europe and for once that gasbag Dunphy got it right when he said that once the Prem teams are eliminated the real competition can begin.

p.pete

PHB wrote:

Why pay 10 mill for given for only 3 years, when if you wait till summer you can pay 10 mill for someone for 10 years, is his thinking.

Liverpool could sell you Kirkland or Carson for 10 mil - if you pick the right one you should get ten years out of them (Kirkland, pick Kirkland)

A Dub in Glasgo

Pigman II wrote:

so-called best league in europe and for once that gasbag Dunphy got it right when he said that once the Prem teams are eliminated the real competition can begin.

So called by whom though? All the EPL lovers and Sky! The EPL is not the best league in the world although Man United and Chelsea would be worthy members of the last 8 if it was not for the niggly fact that they got to play better teams than temselves in this round. I have no doubt that both MU and Chelsea would have a better chance if they were playing most of the other teams.

PHB

Beside Juve Barca Milan Bayern can you tell me a team that United or Chelsea probably wouldn't beat?

David19

The Rooster wrote:

Frustrating way to lose, but I wouldnt be too downhearted. In fact I'd be happy enough that Milan didnt come away with a 0-2 win.

United will defo score in Milan - probably more than one. Dida is worse that Carroll, he's probably worse than Dudek. United play much much better when they need to score. Of course they'll need to be solid defensively

Dida worse than carroll and dudek? Why has he been playing for milan for a few years then, considering they could buy basically any keeper in the world? He's a very good keeper. Milan also have maybe the best defense in the world so I think man utd will find it very hard to score in milan. In fact I don't think they will. Certainly not a few anyway.

The Rooster

David19 wrote:

Why has he been playing for milan for a few years then, considering they could buy basically any keeper in the world?

Gawdknows!!
Why have ManU got Roy Carroll in goal, "considering they could buy basically any keeper in the world?"

But I do know, that if Dida is put under pressure, he will invariably flap.

The Muppet

PHB wrote:

Beside Juve Barca Milan Bayern can you tell me a team that United or Chelsea probably wouldn't beat?

Portsmouth.:D

It was just one of those off nights for United. Now that they know what they have to do I expect a much better performance in the second leg. On their night they can beat anyone.

David19

The Rooster wrote:

Gawdknows!!
Why have ManU got Roy Carroll in goal, "considering they could buy basically any keeper in the world?"

But I do know, that if Dida is put under pressure, he will invariably flap.

Well man utd is a business. They can't spend as much as milan. Carroll will be replaced at the end of the season whereas dida will probably continue playing for milan, as he has done for a few years. They might not get too near dida anyway.

PHB

I'm sorry Milan isn't a business?
Fergie was specifically told at winter that he could spend money if he wanted to since they didn''t wanta situation like last year and ferdinand.

p.s. Didas a very good goalie