Breaking Red Lights

magpie

No, I'm saying that they all know they shouldn't do it, but do it anyway. So references to the rules of the road and implying that they don't know are superfluous.

Every time I ask what practical measures can be taken you reply by saying

1) They should know and if they don't shouldn't be allowed to drive
2) The system is perfectly efficient if only people would use it coprrectly

I don't disagree with you on either of these points, but the reality is that people continue to break lights, even though they shouldn't. Therefore I would contend that extra measures be taken to combat the problem ,even though strictly speakign we shouldn't have to, as you point out.

Boggle

I rekon lights are overused in this country taking away from the fact that people (shockingly) CAN actually manage a car!! I'd give Clonmel as an example (and have done so before) where it takes a relatively long time to get from one end to the other through the lights. Funny thing is though, that any time the lights go out (break) then the traffic speed up enormously.
Funny thing is that people when no longer racing lights are all of a sudden a much more polite people. Obviously I'm not saying to rip them all up but what I am saying is that maybe a little better planning (turn to amber if appropriate) is in order.

I would also like to see the system set up so that before the light starts to change to green that you have a red and orange light (so people are at least in gear and awake) and before you stop you have a green and orange light (so there's no confusing the 2 ambers). Also I think you should be able to turn left even on a red (but entirely at your own risk!) to keep traffic flowing...

Just my 2cents...

MrPudding

magpie wrote:

I don't disagree with you on either of these points, but the reality is that people continue to break lights, even though they shouldn't. Therefore I would contend that extra measures be taken to combat the problem ,even though strictly speakign we shouldn't have to, as you point out.

What is the problem with the extra measure being actually enforcing the law? You have said yourself that they know they have to stop at lights. Start dishing out fines, points and bans. Why waste money telling people "no seriously you HAVE to stop at red lights" when they already do know.

MrP

magpie

Start dishing out fines, points and bans

OK, but how? On how many traffic lights? How much will it cost to implement?

If its carried out like current speeding enforcement people will know it pretty much random and your chances of getting caught are minimal.

Incidentally, walking home yesterday I saw someone break a red light. The Garda car behind them didn't seem to care. Not enough to give chase anyway.

Pataman

No offence to the gardai but they cant be at every lights. On ly with this thread in mind have I noticed the time lag between the the lights going red and the opposing lights turning green. This should happen instantly, at the same time. I dont see a problem if people have enough notice of the change.

AMurphy

Boggle wrote:

...... Funny thing is though, that any time the lights go out (break) then the traffic speed up enormously.
Funny thing is that people when no longer racing lights are all of a sudden a much more polite people. Obviously I'm not saying to rip them all up but what I am saying is that maybe a little better planning (turn to amber if appropriate) is in order.

I would also like to see the system set up so that before the light starts to change to green that you have a red and orange light (so people are at least in gear and awake) and before you stop you have a green and orange light (so there's no confusing the 2 ambers). Also I think you should be able to turn left even on a red (but entirely at your own risk!) to keep traffic flowing...

Just my 2cents...

I have seen a car do a Left on Red in front of a cop car in Dub... cop ignored it. So I guess it is legal. (I sneek it in after a good look about)

Obviously the lights are badly timed and probably not synched with the other lights or the traffic volume/time of day. this seems pretty typical of all irish lights. Just like my beech about Reds and Greens in the same stack. It points to a "keep it cheap", half hatched, underfunded and total disregard for the public by the relevant Gov bodies policy, ie, just plonk it down in any ol' which way and let them fight it out among themselves.
Ministers do not care, they have no idea of the pains of the long suffering average motorist, they have jets, helicopters and the allowance to drive anywhere at any time for any reason..... well their drivers do.

I'm not so sure that adding the UK red/amber would solve the inherent problem of crappy implementation.

there is another way of installing lights that conveys as much information.

Assume a traditional "+" cross junction. 2 way in each direction.

Right now, if memory serves me correctly the lights are installed at the near side of the junction, rught up at your right or left headlamp or where you stopped. So when you are stopped you can barely see the light you are at, let alone anything else, without craning your neck to an extreme angle, up and to the side, you might even manage to stop directly under the light.

As well, you can only see the back of the crossing lane lights, as all the lights shine away from the junction.

Now, move the lights to the opposite side of the junction, some may already be that way in Dub.
So you are stopping back the width of the cross street from the light. Bit like a padestrian light, is at the opposite side of the street.
It is easier to see as it is at a small angle ahead of you.
You can now also see the lights on the cross street, if you are stopped up at the top as they shine into the junction, not away from the junction.

Therefore by observing the cross traffic light, you can tell when they have an amber/red. This is your signal to get ready.

Did that make any sense?.

Course I can see the problem now being people stopping AT the light, hence blocking the junction.

And I still think those Red Ball/Green Arrow in the same stack are a cheap solution it allows the gov to wash their hands of the problem, but really solves nothing and the driving public pay the price ultimately.... as always.

FX Meister

http://img222.exs.cx/img222/5283/ifaholescouldfly6am.jpg

shoegirl

After seeing a total ar**hole nearly kill my mother while she was trying to cross a road at a pedestrian crossing at the green man, and then beep the horn and shout abuse at her, even though he had been trying to break the law, I have to say red light cameras are the only answer for these parasites.

See this highly interesting study on the positive impact of red light cameras in Scotland:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/cru/resfinds/drf7-00.htm

• 69% reduction in the total number of red light infringements
• 62% reduction in the number of injury accidents, where the primary causation was failure to observe a signal, at the camera sites in the three years following the introduction of cameras compared with the three years before
• An analysis of injury road accident data for Glasgow District in 1992 revealed that red-light running was the primary cause of 17% of accidents at signal controlled junctions and it was a possible contributory factor in a further 8% of accidents

Also look at this site for London data:
http://www.lscp.org.uk/faqs.asp

Again a large decrease in fatalities. You cannot put up a camera in London unless there has been 3-4 fatalities by the way.