Who needs the health service anymore?

RE*AC*TOR

Now with the Philips HeartStart Home Automated External Defibrillator you can skip those long queues at Beaumont / Vincents / Mater and bring a loved-one back to life in the comfort of your own armchair.

So what happens is I faint, someone thinks I have a heart-attack and wips out the defribrillator?

D!ve^Bomb!

they have these all over O' Hare's airport in the US incase anyone has a heart attack, apparently you're have a bigger chance of having a heart attack in an airport.. it's true, i saw it in a Documentary yesterday.. pretty cool.. don't know if i'd want to use it though

seamus

Safely delivers a shock only if needed

I'm guessing it may have some kind of inbuilt HR detector to say "This man still has a pulse, go away you ****ing moron".

Still, HR detectors are fallible.

[Edit: Just had a look at the vid link, and it says it "analzyes the victims heart rhythym and decides if a shock is needed".

Man wouldn't you be pissed if you had one of these, someone strapped it onto you when you fainted, and it said "Not required", just flushing $1,500 down the toilet.]

N_Raid

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

So what happens is I faint, someone thinks I have a heart-attack and wips out the defribrillator?

If someone does whip out the defibrillator and you don't need to be shocked then no matter how stupid they are or how little they know about first aid or cardiac arrests, they can't shock you. As Seamus thought, they have a HR detector and if a shockable rhythm is detected then it will prompt the user to deliver a shock. (just as a side note, despite what hollywood and tv land would have you believe, flatline is NOT a shockable rhythm.) There are very simple instructions with most AEDs and though I haven't seen them all, any of them I have seen also had instructions printed on the machine itself and on all the bits so you could follow it step by step even if you haven't even heard of an AED before. It's as close to foolproof as they could make them. In fact one of the statistics that O'Hare quote is that in the first year AEDs were placed in the airport there were 19 cardiac arrests. Of the 19, 11 were shockable. Of the 11 people that delivered a shock, 6 had never gone near an AED before. So it can be done.

And yeah HR detectors are fallible but if the instructions are followed (drying the chest, shaving any hair from where the pad goes if necessary, make sure no one touches the casualty etc.) then the chances of an error are greatly reduced. And if all the conditions are right the chances of an incorrect reading are very minute. i won't say there is no chance because there is always a chance of error with any machinery but I have never heard of it.

lomb

money very well spent, every household with elderly people or others at the risk of a heart attack should have one. 1500-2000 grand is nothing if it adds 5 years to a loved ones life or they dont become a vegatable.
its a little known fact that, less than 10% of people are or can be saved by ambulances whos hearts go into fibrillation. ie waste of time but dont let the cat out of the bag
the stimulus needs to be given very quickly if one is to survive, the brain dieing very quickly once blood flow ceases. of course there are other forms of 'death' such as stroke etc but coronarys are a major one.

JackKelly

The first and only defibrillator available over-the-counter that can be used by virtually anyone with the materials included

uh-oh.

A:"Hey, pass the remote"
B:"no"
A:"..."
*defribulates*

Flukey

It is good that there are more of them out there and that it si therefore possible to save more lives.

angeldelight

They're actually a really good idea. They're very easy to use, most of them have a voice giving you clear instructions on what to do. You can't shock someone if they don't need it. Irish Heart Foundation are training ppl how to use them at the min, I did a training course through college few weeks ago. The pads even have diagrams on them re where to put them. Only thing I'd be a little worried about ppl who had never done any sort of course doing is using an adult pad on a child or not checking for pacemakers etc. They can save loads of lives though

Blub2k4

I remember being told by a med student mate when I was in college, he was studying dental surgeon so he was already a qualified doc while he was in dentistry, that he never saw anyone who needed a shock actually benefitting from it. In other words if it was bad enough to warrant a defib that it was already sh1t street and in his experience they all died in A&E despite it, dont get your hopes up.

N_Raid

Blub2k4 wrote:

I remember being told by a med student mate when I was in college, he was studying dental surgeon so he was already a qualified doc while he was in dentistry, that he never saw anyone who needed a shock actually benefitting from it. In other words if it was bad enough to warrant a defib that it was already sh1t street and in his experience they all died in A&E despite it, dont get your hopes up.

Fair enough maybe that's in your mates experience (and maybe people in hospital who need a defib would have so much more wrong with them than what I'd come across) but I'm a first aider qualified to use a defib and I regularly cover croke park and Landsdowne road. I know of at least five people who would not be alive today were it not for the presence of voluntary first aiders and health board EMTs equipped with defibs. One case in particular I remember, the family had been rung to say their father was dead but an hour and a half later he was sitting up in bed joking with the nurses. The defib may not solve all problems but it can prolong life long enough so that they can get specialist medical attention. It's the same as CPR. In someone who just drops dead (not choking or drowning) you will NEVER bring someone back to life with CPR. But it's all about the chain of survival: Early Access, Early CPR, Early Defibrillation, Early Advanced care. You have to keep all the links present for them to have any chance. So while you won't shock someone and have them jump up and shake your hand and run off on their merry way, you might get the heart back to a normal rhythm long enough for them to get to hospital.

lomb

Blub2k4 wrote:

I remember being told by a med student mate when I was in college, he was studying dental surgeon so he was already a qualified doc while he was in dentistry, that he never saw anyone who needed a shock actually benefitting from it. In other words if it was bad enough to warrant a defib that it was already sh1t street and in his experience they all died in A&E despite it, dont get your hopes up.

yeah i remember in anatomy class a few years ago they had a cardiac lecture. he put up some shocking stats saying only 5-7% of cases benefited from defib from emergency services, when they went into fib. the reason being the time to defib needs to be less than 5minutes and usually it would take this to get the ambulance out of its parking space.
actually a doctor friend of mine, well his father (also a doc)collapsed in hospital and it was only the quick action of a junior doctor that saved his life defibbing him within 1 minute. he just grabbed it and applied it to him. he lived for another 7 years and died a little while ago.

cormie

I think it would be money well spent by the likes of neighbourhood associations, supermarkets, shopping centres and the likes. If less that 5 minutes means better much better chance of it working then it should be in easy reach and not have to rely on an ambulance to come.

lomb

cormie wrote:

.... not have to rely on an ambulance to come.

very good idea cormie, as ive said statistics show unfortunately calling an ambulance is basically a waste of time. u need it there and then.

Blub2k4

lomb wrote:

yeah i remember in anatomy class a few years ago they had a cardiac lecture. he put up some shocking stats saying only 5-7% of cases benefited from defib from emergency services, when they went into fib. the reason being the time to defib needs to be less than 5minutes and usually it would take this to get the ambulance out of its parking space.
actually a doctor friend of mine, well his father (also a doc)collapsed in hospital and it was only the quick action of a junior doctor that saved his life defibbing him within 1 minute. he just grabbed it and applied it to him. he lived for another 7 years and died a little while ago.

which would explain why he never saw it work in A&E.
In fairness though that is the argument to have them all over the place.

lomb

Blub2k4 wrote:

which would explain why he never saw it work in A&E.
In fairness though that is the argument to have them all over the place.

exactly, waste of time in A&E, id say they only do it to go thru the motions. and pretend they are doing something (as otherwise families would be very upset)

lomb

QUOTE Time Frame
A patient's chance of survival from cardiac arrest due to V-Fib is decreased by approximately 10% with each minute that passes. It is therefore crucial that defibrillation is provided within the first few minutes after a patient's collapse. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) can delay the damage to the heart after cardiac arrest, allowing for a slightly longer time for effective defibrillation. CPR alone, however, cannot restore the heart's normal electrical function. It is imperative to both perform CPR and defibrillate the heart within the first few minutes after a cardiac arrest to give the patient the best chance of survival.

cormie

I think when I have enough disposable income, I will invest in one of these!

And if you were really evil, speaking of investments, you could carry around pre-printed forms to be signed, stating that family/friends of victim who are there at the time agree to pay €10,000 if victim survives because of it.

The Real B-man

I am a member of The Order of Malta Ambulance Corps trust me they are life savers ie, best used within 90 seconds of a cardiac, takes at least 10 mins for a ambulance to arrive on scene.

cormie

I'm getting one when I have the money:)

Adam

pants

defib

here is how you van use one.

http://www.defib.ie/aeddemo.html

Goodluck:D
http://www.defib.ie

InFront

I had taken in a big breath to start an anti-government rant, but yeah, those are actually wonderful inventions, well done inventor guy, whoever you are...

Ruu_Old

defib wrote:

here is how you van use one.

http://www.defib.ie/aeddemo.html

Goodluck:D
http://www.defib.ie

Wow, digging up a year old thread to pimp your product. Bravo sir, brav-****ing-o.