"128K" does this mean bits or bytes

Velcrow

Ok thanks in advance for any info on this:

Firstly:

I am trying to argue a point that when we were offered a broadband uncontended "128K" ( this was the exact text used ) line that I assumed that it would be:

128 kilobytes

not

128 kilobits ( 16 kilobytes )

Secondly:

What is Broadband?

Surely it is more that 128 kilobits which = 16KB which is like an isdn connection???

Give me some Ammo or Do I have a Leg to stand on ???

radiospan

I don't think there's an exact definition for the minimum speed required to be offered before you can call it Broadband, but I think an ISP in the UK were told that they couldn't call their 256Kbit product "broadband".

So going by that, I'd call broadband anything that offers a 512KBit download speed.

Chalk

bb with 128kb contended or uncontended offers a max of 16kB upload.
128kb download is not bb

note the use of small 'b' and large 'B' to denote bits and bytes respectively

Chalk

the k refers to 1000, whether bits, bytes or metres

Talliesin

Chalk wrote:

note the use of small 'b' and large 'B' to denote bits and bytes respectively

Alas, many people aren't as consistent in this as yourself.

There's also inconsistency in how kilo is used.

Generally networking is discussed in terms of bits, with kilo meaning 1,000 and memory and file size in terms of bytes with kilo meaning 1,024. This makes sense when you think about what networking people are concerned with (moving bits from A to B, and dealing with physical constraints in the medium used) and what programmers are concerned with when writing a program to deal with a file (dealing with bytes using technology for which multiples of 2 are often more convenient than other numbers).
Hence 128kb is equivalent to 15.625kB.

Byte doesn't even consistently mean 8 bits, though it does with just about every modern machine (this is why ISO and IETF documents use the term "octet" to mean blocks of 8 bits).

Velcrow

So when they said 128K

Was I right to assume Kilobytes?

Chalk

in regards to interent services available today youd be wrong.
most isps worldwide advertise the speeds in kilobits to give it more oomph,
since everyon knows dialup as 56k,
bb is not synchronous, ie the speed up is not the same as the speed down
standard offerening here , today, is 512kb/128kb or , roughly 60kB down 15kB up

tomk

If you were offered a 1Mb BB service, it could conceivably have been described as 128KB i.e.

128 x 8 = 1024

However, as mentioned above, ISPs tend to use the higher number i.e. the bit count, as opposed to the byte count.

padraigf

128kb on an internet service means 128 kilobits. Meaning a 16kiloByte speed. (Good luck getting 16kiloBytes out of it though, expect more like 12-13kB).

As far as I know, a lowercase b stands for bits, whereas an uppercase B stands for bytes. Wouldn't trust that though, since most places seem to use them interchangeably even though they arent the same thing.

Random

bits bits bits.
It's all kilobits they use. Kb.

SkepticOne

plazzTT wrote:

I don't think there's an exact definition for the minimum speed required to be offered before you can call it Broadband, but I think an ISP in the UK were told that they couldn't call their 256Kbit product "broadband".

So going by that, I'd call broadband anything that offers a 512KBit download speed.

But this 512KBit would be referring to the maximum link speed of the service. If an ISP quotes the 'uncontended' speed this means what the user should expect if all the other users are maxing out the connection. For example Eircom's lower end 512k product has an 'uncontended' speed of 10 kbit/sec (much lower than dialup). If everyone was to start downloading at the same time this is the speed you would get since the 512k is contended at a ratio of 48:1. 512/48=10. This is unlikely particularly on a capped service like Eircom's and this is why they can get away with such a high contention ratio.

Velcrow

Thanks everyone - yeah - only in ireland is bb sold as 16KB ( 128 Kb ) - just came back from france and they were offering 1MB ( 8Mb ) bb for 19.99 a month.....

PiE

Uncontended 128k would be a leased line, which would be considered broadband (in Ireland anyway), non?

Stephen

Velcrow - who are you getting 128kb broadband from? Sounds seriously low. All the eircom radsl resellers do 512k.

Unless, of course, you're talking about the upload speed, where 128kbit is the standard speed offered by Irish dsl ISPs.

Velcrow

PiE wrote:

Uncontended 128k would be a leased line, which would be considered broadband (in Ireland anyway), non?

Correct it is a leased line we are getting 128kb ( 16KB ) - ( Smart ) for 50 ex vat a month - are there better offers out there?

SkepticOne

Velcrow wrote:

Correct it is a leased line we are getting 128kb ( 16KB ) - ( Smart ) for 50 ex vat a month - are there better offers out there?

Do you need uncontended bandwidth? There are much faster contended services from Eircom, Esat, Leap, UTV and a host of others for less money.

nolaen

Network traffic is not measured in bits, bytes or thousands of. The 'B' stands for bauds. Likewise kb is kilo - bauds

Moriarty

Uhm, no it's not.

nadir

I have a 128 KB line (or 1 Mega bit) with IBB, that's broadband

anything lower is not BB imho

I know dsl around here runs at half that, but I just like to think of broadband as 1 Meg or better, and no caps obviously.

iano

Please guys, stop the confusion.

In networking, speeds are measured in multiples of bits/sec, i.e. Kbps,Mbps,Gbps (or Kbit/s, Mbit/s, Gbit/s).

In computer storage, file and disk sizes are measured in multiples of bytes, i.e MB, GB, TB.

My comment on the original question:
If its a 128Kbps line, it is the equivalent of 2 ISDN channels and is pretty poor throughput in this day and age. SMART's own recently announced Consumer product offers a 2Mbps/128Kbps service for 29 euro ex vat.
A lot depends on your location and proximity to an enabled exchange/pop.

As for "what is broadband?", that's a whole other story!
The OECD definition of broadband is at least 256 kbps downstream and at least 64 kbps upstream.
Ofcom, the UK regulator, states "'broadband' is used to refer to higher bandwidth, always-on services, offering data rates of 128 kbps and above."
Comreg simply states that "You can use a broadband connection to access Internet at speeds that are significantly quicker than dial-up connections. Most broadband offers provide download speeds of 512kbps or higher."
You pays your money and you takes your choice!

po0k

A sensible definition of "broadband" (in the context of internet connections) is 1.5Mbps-down, 600Kbps-up.

Regarding the 1000Vs1024 debate.
If you don't adhere to this then you are wrong.

Moriarty

.. off to Nets/Comms we go.

Capt'n Midnight

Remember it's marketing so they will quote the best looking figure

look at the fuss over HDD's where 1GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes (about 5% less than you'd expect)

take for example 128,000 bits per second signaling rate

that's including overheads like CRC's and stop/start bits and hardware routing information and Ack's
of what is left you have to wrap your packets with IP addresses and other junk
You could esily loose 10% on both steps..
(or look at the OSI 7 layer model - overheads at each level)

So getting 100Kbits data transfer on 128Kb line could mean you have no cause for compaint !