Smart employee happy to answer questions on bb rollout

K1

Hi Garfield
checked my free trial end date, its 22 March, I wonder is there any way to squeeze more time from eircom?? Everyone seems very negitive re LLU delays, Im on Santry B exchange. Give a real answer how much downtime am I looking at! Please please please dont give me the automated response Thanks

dub45

K1 wrote:

Have just read trough the T&C on eircoms site re broadband it .............., I would be interested to know what Smarts legal team make of this?

Unfortunately I dont think Smart at any stage prior to the launch of their product gave any consideration to the problems likely to arise for those who would wish to switch from their isp to Smart.

This is strange given that the most likely and enthusiastic customers for the type of product they were launching were those who would appreciate it most - those who understood it, 'the early adapters' and those most likely to have broadband already and to be using it regularly. There have been plenty of posts here in the past about the difficulties of changing isp and they were in 'solo' situations not the potential mass exodus (relatively speaking) which lie ahead.

Smart may say that it is up to the potential customer to deal with their own isp and make themselves available for a Smart connection but that will not satisfy the potential customers who will want to know the likely downtime invovled in any swithover situation. (Unfortunately I predict many threads on the switching situation in the not too distant future. I will be very glad to be wrong of course)

I think the wisest course for anyone is to wait wait wait and not do anything rashly until a fuller picture emergers but it is a difficult situation for those on the three month trials.

Incidentally I am already aware of one situation where a person who is not too familiar with the bb world and who is on the Eircom trial rang smart and obviously spoke to a very 'innocent' sales girl who told him Smart would be available to him and encouraged him to cancel his Eircom trial which he did and Eircom acted very quickly in his case and within a couple of days his bb was gone!!! (Now I know this is an untypical case but it is illustrative of the pitfalls ahead I think)

TVDX

Garfield, can you confirm to me that you are charged nothing until you get Broadband installed to your satisfaction.
Some people have been saying that as soon as you send in the DD form, you are hooked up to the phone service and charges begin immeidately.
Is this correct?.

dub45

TVDX wrote:

Garfield, can you confirm to me that you are charged nothing until you get Broadband installed to your satisfaction.
Some people have been saying that as soon as you send in the DD form, you are hooked up to the phone service and charges begin immeidately.
Is this correct?.

He has already said that this is not the case and that you are not obliged to accept anything until the bb is offered to you.

Infini

I've got a question about this. I heard smart doesn't have contention on it's package. What I'm wondering is would this mean that when I upload at 128kb that it would be close that speed in terms of actual speed or would I be closer to 15kb or so like with regular BB.

diarmo

I dont mean to be a smartass "Infini" but you do realise that ISP's sell their products using bits no Bytes.

1 Byte = 8 bits

So 512/128 (bits) would come out as 64/16 (Bytes) under 100% effeciency when using your comp.

15 Bytes/s of a maximum 16 is impressive in my book.

BTW.
In correct SI units KiloBytes = KiB and Kilobits = Kib
Higher Case (B) denoting Bytes
Lower case (b) denoting bits

On the other hand if you actually upload at 15kbits/s...then I recommend you find the CEO of your ISP and demand that he personially fix your connection :eek: :mad:

K1

dub45 wrote:

Unfortunately I dont think Smart at any stage prior to the launch of their product gave any consideration to the problems likely to arise for those who would wish to switch from their isp to Smart.

This is strange given that the most likely and enthusiastic customers for the type of product they were launching were those who would appreciate it most - those who understood it, 'the early adapters' and those most likely to have broadband already and to be using it regularly. There have been plenty of posts here in the past about the difficulties of changing isp and they were in 'solo' situations not the potential mass exodus (relatively speaking) which lie ahead.

Smart may say that it is up to the potential customer to deal with their own isp and make themselves available for a Smart connection but that will not satisfy the potential customers who will want to know the likely downtime invovled in any swithover situation. (Unfortunately I predict many threads on the switching situation in the not too distant future. I will be very glad to be wrong of course)

I think the wisest course for anyone is to wait wait wait and not do anything rashly until a fuller picture emergers but it is a difficult situation for those on the three month trials.

Incidentally I am already aware of one situation where a person who is not too familiar with the bb world and who is on the Eircom trial rang smart and obviously spoke to a very 'innocent' sales girl who told him Smart would be available to him and encouraged him to cancel his Eircom trial which he did and Eircom acted very quickly in his case and within a couple of days his bb was gone!!! (Now I know this is an untypical case but it is illustrative of the pitfalls ahead I think)

Very well put I agree If Garfield is still around hopefully he'a paying attention.. I think Smart are going to have to decide which customers they want to keep , considering there is also a customer base being generated here for thier voice product as well. I myself will give them till the end of eircoms trial if they can't commit themselves by then I will have to stick with eircom.. Look at it this was if they were advertising for customers to switch over on voice only then an unknown down time, SORRY ANY DOWNTIME would be unaccectable.. Garfield if your listening Your credability & your sales are dropping its time to do or die!!

jor el

Why do people keep harping on about the downtime when switching. Garfield has already answered this question. He doesn't know what downtime there will be, nor is he likely to find out because quite simply it's not up to him. Eircom are responsible for disconnecting any current bitstream product you may have and if they drag their heals over terminating that then there's SFA that Smart Telecom can do about it.

You already know what Smart's rollout schedule is and it's not likely that you, or anyone else, will be connected before your Eircom trial ends on the 22nd of March. You'll either have to take up the 12 month contract with Eircom or cancel and wait till Smart are up and running, it's that simple.

I suggest you complain to Eircom about downtimes when transferring your broadband connection to a competitor. Make sure you tell them your switching over because of their over priced and under powered service too or they'll never do anything to improve it.

Sorry to go on a bit.

Sponge Bob

If you enter a contract with Eirocm on the 1st of April for they €40 product and if you then cabncel on the first of June, Eircom will demand 10 x €40 cash 9the 10 months left) before they release your line to anotheer operator be they bitstream or llu

The closer to the end of your contract the cheaper it becomes to exit it by paying it off .

Then Smart can take it over in the normal way .

K1

jor el wrote:

Why do people keep harping on about the downtime when switching. Garfield has already answered this question. He doesn't know what downtime there will be, nor is he likely to find out because quite simply it's not up to him. Eircom are responsible for disconnecting any current bitstream product you may have and if they drag their heals over terminating that then there's SFA that Smart Telecom can do about it.

You already know what Smart's rollout schedule is and it's not likely that you, or anyone else, will be connected before your Eircom trial ends on the 22nd of March. You'll either have to take up the 12 month contract with Eircom or cancel and wait till Smart are up and running, it's that simple.

I suggest you complain to Eircom about downtimes when transferring your broadband connection to a competitor. Make sure you tell them your switching over because of their over priced and under powered service too or they'll never do anything to improve it.

Sorry to go on a bit.

Jor relax there I was never suggesting it's all smarts fault, all we want is an honest answer and for smart to stop "dragging thier heels " also . If its going to be 3 or six months thats fine, I I knew that I could then decide whether to stay with Eircom & pay the penelty, if need be, surly its not too much to ask Smart when they expect to get into varios Exchanges , a time span of 2 months is a bit much considering there is no mention of this on thier high profile advertising campaign... If when they were booking their ad on Tv RTE or TV3 said we will air your ads sometime in the next 8 weeks how would they feel???

dub45

jor el wrote:

Why do people keep harping on about the downtime when switching.

Its very simple - people are concerned about the possibilites of being without bb for a long period.

Garfield has already answered this question. He doesn't know what downtime there will be, nor is he likely to find out because quite simply it's not up to him. Eircom are responsible for disconnecting any current bitstream product you may have and if they drag their heals over terminating that then there's SFA that Smart Telecom can do about it.

Its not as simple as putting all the responsibility on Eircom. Smart have a role to play because for the first stage of the process they will need to give realistic connection dates to potential customers as to when Smart BB will be available- then (the notice period having elapsed) when the customer is free of his isp Smart will need to connect him pretty sharpish if hes not to be without bb for any sort of long period. That exercise will take quite a degree of planning, communication and coordination.

At the moment, at least as far as I can see Smart have no way of measuring the extent of this problem for themselves as they did not ask those who applied if they were already bb customers of another company. This would have been a useful piece of information to gather on sign up as it would have indicated how many people will need notice before they could avail of the service. They are going to have to go back to virtually all applicants to find this out.

Dont be surprised if and when new products are introduced by the other isps if they try to tie people in to new 12 month contracts to avail of them thus making it harder for Smart to get customers.

Blaster99

Garfield said they were going to look into it and come up with a solution. Why not just wait for that instead of going on endlessly about this?

I would have thought that it would be possible to have a month's overlap, so you only cancel the existing arrangement when Smart is up and going.

Sponge Bob

dub45 wrote:

Its very simple - people are concerned about the possibilites of being without bb for a long period.

Get Ripwave for the month ! You live in Dublin FFS there are plenty of wireless operators.

Its not as simple as putting all the responsibility on Eircom. Smart have a role to play because for the first stage of the process they will need to give realistic connection dates to potential customers as to when Smart BB will be available- then (the notice period having elapsed) when the customer is free of his isp Smart will need to connect him pretty sharpish if hes not to be without bb for any sort of long period. That exercise will take quite a degree of planning, communication and coordination.

Twaddle Dub45.

LLU has been mooted since the late 1990s and allegedly live for 3 years. During that time we have seen the finest of underhand behaviour from Eircom.

When Eircom were told to set a realistic price last year (still crap but better than before) they kept out of the High Court

When they were told to produce a process document guaranteeing times and responses for technical requests by LLU operators this was too much altogether and off they went to the High Court last month. Smart, during their planning and rollout phase , had a reasonable expectation that all of these issues would be sorted out by Comreg and Eircom by now. Unfortunately they bet on Comregs competence which was their mistake IMO.

Eircom have a long history of obstruction andand wilful behaviour designed to frustrate competition in Ireland . Why don't you direct your questions at Comreg and see what they say.

BUT STOP BLAMING SMART FOR THAT !

BUT if Garfield does not come back with answers to my questions PDQ on the Telephony product I will arrrive at the conclusion that Smart have something nasty to hide from their potential LLU customers on the Telephony side.

Yo! Garfield !!!!!!!

damien

Sponge Bob wrote:

Yo! Garfield !!!!!!!

Wasn't he told to cease and desist by DeVore ?

jor el

K1 wrote:

Jor relax there I was never suggesting it's all smarts fault, all we want is an honest answer and for smart to stop "dragging thier heels " also . If its going to be 3 or six months thats fine, I I knew that I could then decide whether to stay with Eircom & pay the penelty, if need be, surly its not too much to ask Smart when they expect to get into varios Exchanges

He already answered here and I doubt you'll get a more exact date than this for when they are going to be in any particular exchange.

My point was that changing bitstream providers is something completely different and has nothing to do with when Smart will be unbundeling exchanges. Obviously you can't change untill they're in the exchange but when they are then there is going to be downtime between providors. You have a contract with Eircom currently. It is therefore up to Eircom to terminate this service in a timely manner. If they take longer then there's nothing Smart telecom can do about it, and repeatedly asking the same question is not going to get you the answer you want.

, a time span of 2 months is a bit much considering there is no mention of this on thier high profile advertising campaign... If when they were booking their ad on Tv RTE or TV3 said we will air your ads sometime in the next 8 weeks how would they feel???

This is just pointless.

dub45 wrote:

Its very simple - people are concerned about the possibilites of being without bb for a long period.

That I understand and am concerned about it myself if I'm going to switch to Smart from EsatBT, but I don't see the point of asking them about downtimes before they even get into the exchanges. I'll wait till the exchange is enabled, because absolutely nothing can happen till then anyway, and then find out if the expected downtime is long or not. If you're about to enter a 12 month contract then you need to decide now whether you want Smart this year or next year and whether you can live without BB for a couple of months.

At the moment, at least as far as I can see Smart have no way of measuring the extent of this problem for themselves as they did not ask those who applied if they were already bb customers of another company. This would have been a useful piece of information to gather on sign up as it would have indicated how many people will need notice before they could avail of the service. They are going to have to go back to virtually all applicants to find this out.

Fair point, they should be asking that.

iano

Blaster99 wrote:

Garfield said they were going to look into it and come up with a solution. Why not just wait for that instead of going on endlessly about this?

I would have thought that it would be possible to have a month's overlap, so you only cancel the existing arrangement when Smart is up and going.

That's the whole point!!!
Eircom will REJECT any LLU order for a line that has broadband.
Therefore you can not have any overlap. You have to cancel your existing service, your provider has to cancel with Eircom wholesale, only then can Smart place an order and the process can begin.
Unless Eircom's procedure is changed to allow an LLU order on a line with broadband (so that you can overlap contracts) or there is a huge amount of co-operation and communication between the losing supplier, Eircom and Smart then you are going to be in limbo for an undetermined amount of time.
Why would IOLBB or UTV be bothered to provide timely feedback when they are losing a Customer even if they had the systems and resources to do it.

That's the problem. Nobody is blaming Smart for this but without a solution, they will struggle to connect customers. A large %age of their potential market has broadband from an existing supplier.

If it is not resolved, then you can expect to see a lot of frustrated would-be Smart customers posting here over the next few months as they remain unconnected or are without broadband for an extended period. That is why it is important for Garfield et. al. to keep us up to date (here or on their FAQ to avoid "pimping").

We await news of a solution ....... (after Smart, Eircom, ComReg, the Courts, the Industry etc. have come to a +ve conclusion!!)

K1

Blaster99 wrote:

Garfield said they were going to look into it and come up with a solution. Why not just wait for that instead of going on endlessly about this?

I would have thought that it would be possible to have a month's overlap, so you only cancel the existing arrangement when Smart is up and going.

Garfield said he would come back but HE HASN'T Garfield HAS said Santry would go live March/April It is2 weeks into March so therefore if is not unreasonable to expext them to be able to give a more exact indication of when. Like I said before now that the dates are arriving for thier exchanges to go live & customers are hearing nothing ( I hav'nt even got a reply to an e-mail requesting order confirmation) Smart ARE starting to loose credability as well as orders. I predict a lot of those 100000 will be cancelling orders before too long if more info is not forthcoming!

K1

Sponge Bob wrote:

Get Ripwave for the month ! You live in Dublin FFS there are plenty of wireless operators.

Twaddle Dub45.

LLU has been mooted since the late 1990s and allegedly live for 3 years. During that time we have seen the finest of underhand behaviour from Eircom.

When Eircom were told to set a realistic price last year (still crap but better than before) they kept out of the High Court

When they were told to produce a process document guaranteeing times and responses for technical requests by LLU operators this was too much altogether and off they went to the High Court last month. Smart, during their planning and rollout phase , had a reasonable expectation that all of these issues would be sorted out by Comreg and Eircom by now. Unfortunately they bet on Comregs competence which was their mistake IMO.

Eircom have a long history of obstruction andand wilful behaviour designed to frustrate competition in Ireland . Why don't you direct your questions at Comreg and see what they say.

BUT STOP BLAMING SMART FOR THAT !

BUT if Garfield does not come back with answers to my questions PDQ on the Telephony product I will arrrive at the conclusion that Smart have something nasty to hide from their potential LLU customers on the Telephony side.

Yo! Garfield !!!!!!!

Rip wave is about as usefull as chastity belts on a whore!! see these http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2461101

Moriarty

K1, smart have said they'll get in touch with people as their exchanges go live. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill imo.

joePC

I've signed up the SMART and sent the mandate in (No confirmation yet)

Q: Im on the Belcamp exchange (Live March/ April) --> March will come & go TBH, is the service going to be availiable in April, Do you have any Dates for this exchange.

Q: Im currently on IOL BB--> What is the downtime for me switching over to Smart.

Thanks, JoePC

K1

Dont hold your breath, I knew they were too good to be true, Garfield is all talk< he isn't really answering anything , just fudging around the questions!! Like U say March will come & go & by the look of it so will April. Surly they knew where they stood re LLU before they started thier high profile advertising campaign. They have taken in all thier orders & they are counting these up to see which exchanges have the most connections to connect first. Wait & see the original list of exchanges for roll out will change very quickly!! I spoke to them yesterday re order confirmation & my exchange(Santry was to be on time & would be one of the first live, Today I called back (still chasing order conf.) was told APRIL AT LEAST . i NO LONGER accept the blame is all telecoms, surly this was all trashed out before launch??? . I think the only thing that will get this moving is for the COMPLAINTS TO START & THE ORDERS TO STOP!... TO Garfield ,you have done nothing on these boards but pimp for business, you have not answered questions any different to the worn out learnt off by heart drivel,that comes from your sales dept.. I for one will be contacting Comreg & the Advertising Standards next week if more definite info is not forthcoming!!!!!

K1

READ THE START OF YOUR ANSWER!!!!!!
"GARFIELD HAS ALREADY ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION, HE DOESNT KNOW!!!!!!!!!"

saying you dont know is NOT answering the question, if it was we would all have straight As in all our exams etc..


Look back over the messages what has Garfield really anwered########?????????
You would get a better reply from Eircoms Talking Machine......
Garfield should start making a few commitments or go away!

Moriarty

K1, you're just being disruptive now. Garfield has answered a large number of questions over the three or four smart telecom threads. If you're so annoyed then please go and complain to comreg and the ASAI so that they can tell you that your complaints are baseless themselves, but stop clogging up threads on this board with mindless rants.

If you don't, you'll just be banned. Your choice.

K1

Thats what I am Doing, I have already being onto Consumer Affairs and they agree there are questions Smart are not answering. Banned for what just because you don't agree, go ahead, but last time I checked will still lived in a democracy where FREE SPEECH is still allowed, maybe I should move to IRAQ!!!!!

Moriarty

We'd never be so lucky.

K1

Moriarty wrote:

We'd never be so lucky.

NOT BANNED YET THEN?????

dub45

Sponge Bob wrote:

Twaddle Dub45.

LLU has been mooted since the late 1990s and allegedly live for 3 years. During that time we have seen the finest of underhand behaviour from Eircom.

When Eircom were told to set a realistic price last year (still crap but better than before) they kept out of the High Court

When they were told to produce a process document guaranteeing times and responses for technical requests by LLU operators this was too much altogether and off they went to the High Court last month. Smart, during their planning and rollout phase , had a reasonable expectation that all of these issues would be sorted out by Comreg and Eircom by now. Unfortunately they bet on Comregs competence which was their mistake IMO.

Eircom have a long history of obstruction andand wilful behaviour designed to frustrate competition in Ireland . Why don't you direct your questions at Comreg and see what they say.

BUT STOP BLAMING SMART FOR THAT !

BUT if Garfield does not come back with answers to my questions PDQ on the Telephony product I will arrrive at the conclusion that Smart have something nasty to hide from their potential LLU customers on the Telephony side.

Yo! Garfield !!!!!!!

I am not blaming Smart or indeed Eircom for anything. I am simply pointing out the logistics of what will be invovled in someone switching. This has nothing got to with LLU, high courts, obstructionist behavour, the price of oil, the strength of the dollar etc etc.

Most people who want to switch will have a rolling months contract that will require cancellation and the coordination round that will cause the problems - thats the reality of the situation.

K1

dub45 wrote:

I am not blaming Smart or indeed Eircom for anything. I am simply pointing out the logistics of what will be invovled in someone switching. This has nothing got to with LLU, high courts, obstructionist behavour, the price of oil, the strength of the dollar etc etc.

Most people who want to switch will have a rolling months contract that will require cancellation and the coordination round that will cause the problems - thats the reality of the situation.

I AGREE read this http://www.enn.ie/news.html?code=9588234

K1

dub45 wrote:

I am not blaming Smart or indeed Eircom for anything. I am simply pointing out the logistics of what will be invovled in someone switching. This has nothing got to with LLU, high courts, obstructionist behavour, the price of oil, the strength of the dollar etc etc.

Most people who want to switch will have a rolling months contract that will require cancellation and the coordination round that will cause the problems - thats the reality of the situation.

Don,t let Moriarty see you slagging Garfield he gets annoyed anyone upsetting his "friend" By the way has anyone seen or heard from Garfield.. I guess he doesn't have the answers,, just like i said Moriarty......

dub45

K1 wrote:

Don,t let Moriarty see you slagging Garfield he gets annoyed anyone upsetting his "friend" By the way has anyone seen or heard from Garfield.. I guess he doesn't have the answers,, just like i said Moriarty......

Its not about slagging Garfield at all. The guy is brave enough to come on here and take questions so he deserves credit for that.

The questions are just about trying to clarify things or highlight stuff that needs attention thats all.

cgarvey

K1

a) Smart have broken no rule of advertising that I can see (basically because they're not advertising very much). By all means, grace ASAI with your thoughts if you can identify any wrong doing.
b) They have not broken any regulation that ComReg monitors, to the best of my knowledge
c) Garfield seems to have answered most of what he can. He doesn't give specific dates on expectations of rollout/delivery (he can't.. no telco could), nor does he answer how much is overboard (because they haven't decided yet, it's a suck it and see approach), nor does he answer specifics about terminating existing ISP contracts, because it has nothing whatosever to do with Smart.
d) You are in no position to comment on whether or not they will make their March/April deadline (presumably there are only a few employees of Smart who can)
e) Most importantly, grow up and add something constructive to this interesting thread, or bow out.

.cg

Paul007

What I'd be interested in finding out is if Smart are going to facilitate people if their line fails the test.
Are they gonna try to get Eircom to investigate what the problem is?

Getting told you can't get broadband when you're less than a 1km from the exchange is frustrating enough, but not getting an exact reason or possible sulution is even more galling.

Incidently, I had an Eircom rep in my house last week and he said he attended a meeting recently discussing the high line failure rates.
According to him, any customer that orders BB after April whose line fails, Eircom will endeavor to solve the problem.
Can't see it myself, got the feeling he was telling me what I wanted to hear, but I'll wait and see.

thejollyrodger

i was reading in the Irish times today that there is big demand for SMarts new broadband service. 16,000 people have already signed up for the new broadband service offerded by SMART but the articles states that IT MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR UP TO FIVE MONTHS

So far 4 exchanges have been unbundled. Another 62 would be unbundled by July or August.

Eircom are currently transferring 5,000 customers a week using a manual system but hopes that a automatic system will come onstream soon to help customers transfer.

Smart has 80,000 telephone customers.

K1

cgarvey wrote:

K1

a) Smart have broken no rule of advertising that I can see (basically because they're not advertising very much). By all means, grace ASAI with your thoughts if you can identify any wrong doing.
b) They have not broken any regulation that ComReg monitors, to the best of my knowledge
c) Garfield seems to have answered most of what he can. He doesn't give specific dates on expectations of rollout/delivery (he can't.. no telco could), nor does he answer how much is overboard (because they haven't decided yet, it's a suck it and see approach), nor does he answer specifics about terminating existing ISP contracts, because it has nothing whatosever to do with Smart.
d) You are in no position to comment on whether or not they will make their March/April deadline (presumably there are only a few employees of Smart who can)
e) Most importantly, grow up and add something constructive to this interesting thread, or bow out.

.cg

This is the part thats annoying cgarvey, First Smart picked a launch date & off they went, If things wern't going as planned why was the launch not defered?
Second I understand that all cant go to plan bringing exchanges on line, honestly if it is going to take 6 or evn 9 months I really dont care, I just want to know. If smart told me tomorrow my exchange wont be live till September thats fine I know I can sign the contract with eircom keep BB for now & cancel when Smart are ready & decide to pay the couple of months cancellation fee if need be!
A I ask is a little honesty , I do believe they know more than they say

K1

Paul007 wrote:

What I'd be interested in finding out is if Smart are going to facilitate people if their line fails the test.
Are they gonna try to get Eircom to investigate what the problem is?

Getting told you can't get broadband when you're less than a 1km from the exchange is frustrating enough, but not getting an exact reason or possible sulution is even more galling.

Incidently, I had an Eircom rep in my house last week and he said he attended a meeting recently discussing the high line failure rates.
According to him, any customer that orders BB after April whose line fails, Eircom will endeavor to solve the problem.
Can't see it myself, got the feeling he was telling me what I wanted to hear, but I'll wait and see.

Eircoms line test is not final like they say, Mine failed initially , they gave no reason, it was a new estate less than a mile from the exchange so I asked for the line to be tested again , It passed no prob,. I often wondered why will Eircom not explain the criteria for a line to pass/fail??

Blaster99

iano wrote:

Eircom will REJECT any LLU order for a line that has broadband.

Just curious, do you know this for a fact or are you speculating based on the way the bitstream transfers [don't] work?

Moriarty

Blaster- Garfield confirmed it in the (large) first thread. The thing that was meant to resolve all these problems is, at the moment, tied up in the high court in a fight between ComReg and eircom.

K1- smart have released esimated roll out dates for every exchange they said they plan to definetly be in. That list is located, amongst other places, here. That list is as accurate as they are willing to give out because there are issues out of their control that could delay launching an exchange by a few weeks and people such as yourself would be the first in here screaming blue bloody murder that they didn't meet their guideline dates.

No one is forcing you to buy anything from smart telecom. If you don't like them for whatever reason, don't get anything from them. Easy as. You're also on your final warning in relation to your attitude. Either change it, you'll get a permenant ban without any further warning.

Paul007

K1 wrote:

Eircoms line test is not final like they say, Mine failed initially , they gave no reason, it was a new estate less than a mile from the exchange so I asked for the line to be tested again , It passed no prob,. I often wondered why will Eircom not explain the criteria for a line to pass/fail??

Similar story here. Initially passed in May last year, ordered BB, was waiting over 3 months and then my line failed.

I checked the line recently and it passed again but subsequently failed a few days later. Bloody test results change like the weather.

It's due to be tested again in a few days so it'll be interesting to see the outcome.

iano

Blaster99 wrote:

Just curious, do you know this for a fact or are you speculating based on the way the bitstream transfers [don't] work?

Moriarty wrote:

Blaster- Garfield confirmed it in the (large) first thread. The thing that was meant to resolve all these problems is, at the moment, tied up in the high court in a fight between ComReg and eircom.

My friend, I don't speculate!
Section 3.5.2.3 of Process Manual for the eircom services:Unbundled Local Metallic Path states "Where an LLU order is received from an Access Seeker for the provision of an LLU service on a line, which already has a Bitstream Service in place or pending, the LLU order will be rejected pending the removal of the Bitstream Service.
...
Once the competing service has been removed, the Access Seeker can submit a new order requesting service to be provided."

K1

Moriarty , I've already said it's not about the time it takes its about them being realistic, on the PR side I think smart would have been better of estimating longer rather than shorter times, For example if an exchange was down for June/July & then come on line in May then Smart would be heros.. Always do better than you promise & your customers are always happy, This has worked for me in business for many years.

dub45

Moriarty wrote:

Blaster- Garfield confirmed it in the (large) first thread. The thing that was meant to resolve all these problems is, at the moment, tied up in the high court in a fight between ComReg and eircom.

Surely the big obstruction is the necessity for most people to give the 4 weeks notice? And thats a contractual issue nothing to do with the high court at all. For instance say Esat introduced a new product and loads of UTV people wanted to go over to it there would be broadly the same issue of coordination that faces the Smart rollout.

iano

dub45 wrote:

Surely the big obstruction is the necessity for most people to give the 4 weeks notice? And thats a contractual issue nothing to do with the high court at all. For instance say Esat introduced a new product and loads of UTV people wanted to go over to it there would be broadly the same issue of coordination that faces the Smart rollout.

No, there is not the same issue with transfer from one Bitstream service to another. For DSL port transfer (from IOLBB to UTV, Eircom to Netsource etc.), there is a defined process where the customer completes a "DSL Transfer Authorisation Form" which effectively says "I want to move my broadband from supplier xxx to supplier yyy". This gives Eircom all they need to transfer to supplier yyy. This is very similar to switching voice services between two CPS service providers.
This is called the Bitstream Port Transfer process. The details are defined in a document called the Bitstream Industry Process Manual.

So, for transfer between DSL services based on Eircom's Bitstream, there will be little or no downtime.

There is no such process for switching a line with Bitstream service (existing DSL) to LLU provider like Smart. Instead, the order is rejected until the Bitstream service has been cancelled by the Losing service provider, who does not benefit from co-operating. So there is noting the Customer can do to authorise the switch, they are dependant on their existing provider placing a cancellation order with Eircom and Eircom will reject the LLU order from Smart until this is completed.
In the event of an LLU order being successful, then the Eircom Service Level agreement defines a maximum of 2 working days to acknowledge the order and a further 10 working days to provision it.
In summary: the lack of a suitable transfer process guarantees significant downtime for the Customer.

dub45

iano wrote:

No, there is not the same issue with transfer from one Bitstream service to another. For DSL port transfer (from IOLBB to UTV, Eircom to Netsource etc.), there is a defined process where the customer completes a "DSL Transfer Authorisation Form" which effectively says "I want to move my broadband from supplier xxx to supplier yyy". This gives Eircom all they need to transfer to supplier yyy. This is very similar to switching voice services between two CPS service providers.
This is called the Bitstream Port Transfer process. The details are defined in a document called the Bitstream Industry Process Manual.

So, for transfer between DSL services based on Eircom's Bitstream, there will be little or no downtime.

If I recall correctly though from posts on here that process has rarely worked well? And there have been many stories on here of long delays in transfer.

iano

dub45 wrote:

If I recall correctly though from posts on here that process has rarely worked well? And there have been many stories on here of long delays in transfer.

If that is the case, then how much worse could it get transferring to an LLU provider like Smart when there is no process and you are relying on goodwill and co-operation?
I want to see unbindling succeed and welcome Smart's innovative offer. I do believe that they need to get the migration process problems resolved or Customers will loose out.
To be fair to Garfield, he did acknowledge this, though he had no news of a breakthrough.

K1

iano wrote:

No, there is not the same issue with transfer from one Bitstream service to another. For DSL port transfer (from IOLBB to UTV, Eircom to Netsource etc.), there is a defined process where the customer completes a "DSL Transfer Authorisation Form" which effectively says "I want to move my broadband from supplier xxx to supplier yyy". This gives Eircom all they need to transfer to supplier yyy. This is very similar to switching voice services between two CPS service providers.
This is called the Bitstream Port Transfer process. The details are defined in a document called the Bitstream Industry Process Manual.

So, for transfer between DSL services based on Eircom's Bitstream, there will be little or no downtime.

There is no such process for switching a line with Bitstream service (existing DSL) to LLU provider like Smart. Instead, the order is rejected until the Bitstream service has been cancelled by the Losing service provider, who does not benefit from co-operating. So there is noting the Customer can do to authorise the switch, they are dependant on their existing provider placing a cancellation order with Eircom and Eircom will reject the LLU order from Smart until this is completed.
In the event of an LLU order being successful, then the Eircom Service Level agreement defines a maximum of 2 working days to acknowledge the order and a further 10 working days to provision it.
In summary: the lack of a suitable transfer process guarantees significant downtime for the Customer.

Correct me if im wrong but did Smart not say, at some point, the customer does not have to contact eircom they would look ater all that!

dub45

K1 wrote:

Correct me if im wrong but did Smart not say, at some point, the customer does not have to contact eircom they would look ater all that!

No he never said that as far as I can recall and if he did it was in the very early stages of the thread because he has acknowledged the problem on several occassions. And remember its not just about contacting eircom its about contacting your own isp whoever that happens to be too.

G did mention about discussions taking place on the transfer issue.

I dont know what to make of this in the article in yesterday's IT.

People who signed up for the offer would be connected as soon as their local exchange was opened to Smart Telecom and Eircom transferred their line.

Mr Fanning said that Eircom had agreed to transfer up to 5,000 customers per month using the company's manual processes but said that he hoped an automated transfer process would be introduced shortly to help customers transfer.

Paul007

Don't mean to stray off topic but following on from my post yesterday - tested my line today and it passed LOL
Hopefully Smart get to the Santry exchange before Eircom run their next batch of tests.

Valentia

This thread is turning into something akin to Hamlet without the prince :rolleyes:

cman

i have 2 questions my first is: I sent in my direct debit form a few days ago and still havn't gotten an e-mail reply about my details. When do i get the e-mail.
My second is: What date is smart bb out in coolock exchange

dub45

collieok wrote:

If I were you I would print off the page telling you your line is suitable for BB, if it fails again send it to Eircom asking for an explanation, on another point I have eircom BB in our office but if I run aline test it will fail, back to the question what is the criteria for a line to pass??

If you have anything connected to your line such as a cordless phone it can have a negative impact on the test. Most posters on here advise anyone applying for bb to take all extras off the line until confirmation comes through. I think it is common enough for a line with bb to fail subsequent tests:)

A friend of mine lives beside a guy working in Eircom who works on the technical side (but not on bb) and he claims that lately Eircom are taking a more relaxed approach to the test.