Smart employee happy to answer questions on bb rollout

Sponge Bob

/me is not happy at all about this relentless negativity directed at Smart even though YO!!!!!! GARFIELD I have outstanding Q's about the LLU telephony product/package

Eircom ADSL (RADSL), used by 90%+ of all DSL customers in the country, is a 256k GUARANTEED and UP TO 512k product sold as 512k in the media .

Some do get the full 512k , AFAIK the Eircom line test filters out those likely to get 400k or less so very few get as low as 256k . In fairness the cases where it goes below 256k are few and far between .

Nevertheless its a 256k guaranteed product and the ASA has said nothing since its launch some 2 years back. Why hassle Smart over Eircoms lies and marketing sh1te .??

Its still great to see a new entrant with what is hopefully a quality product. We need much more of that to kick this country into the 21st century.

dub45

Sponge Bob wrote:

/me is not happy at all about this relentless negativity directed at Smart even though YO!!!!!! GARFIELD I have outstanding Q's about the LLU telephony product/package

Why hassle Smart over Eircoms lies and marketing sh1te .??

Its still great to see a new entrant with what is hopefully a quality product. We need much more of that to kick this country into the 21st century.

To date nobody has mentioned Eircom's marketing except yourself........?

Sponge Bob

The only guaranteed 512k product is either

ESAT Busines DSL or
Eircom Generation 1 istream 512k , still sold as business ADSL

Most people are on generation 2 Eircom RADSL which is guaranteed 256k 90% of all DSL connections and 100% of DSL connections under €60 a month incl VAT

Mountjoy Mugger

dub45 wrote:

The new version of the Linksys Wag54g is available cheaper.

That converts to €150+ incl shipping.

dub45

Mountjoy Mugger wrote:

That converts to €150+ incl shipping.

I only used that link to show the new model - they had it in IT Direct for about 120 euro recently.

CorkMan

Hello, do you know when Smart Telecom will be available around the Cork City area?

Sully

CorkMan wrote:

Hello, do you know when Smart Telecom will be available around the Cork City area?

From the Smart FAQ (http://thenet2k.spunge.org/faq/index.php?p=default&cat=1#a35):

Cork. Which exchanges are on the list to be done in May/June
Quaker Rd., Churchfield, Wellington Rd., Dennehy's Cross and Cork Central. Cork Central may have some civils issues, but we think we've resolved them.

Just check out the FAQ, there are a few more on cork..

- Sully

K1

dub45 wrote:

That is the $64,000 dollar question as they used to say in the old days

Garfield said earlier that this issue is being discussed at various levels. That's about as clear as it gets at the moment.

In an ideal world yes but I really doubt if Eircom or the other isps are going to make it easy for their customers to 'walk'.

Have just read trough the T&C on eircoms site re broadband it seem that the product is based on a recurring 12 month contract. What this means is if you are signed up for 10 months, say & you cancel Eircom can charge you the outstanding 2 months rental. It also seem by reading the small print that by continuing to use the service after 12 months has is expired is an indication of acceptence of another 12 mounth contract ( I think this side of it could certinly be contested. The conditions also state that if you a cancelling your contract to connect with a competitor thay can refuse access to your line untill all outstanding amounts due are paid in full, I would be interested to know what Smarts legal team make of this?

iano

K1 wrote:

What this means is if you are signed up for 10 months, say & you cancel Eircom can charge you the outstanding 2 months rental.

True. 12 month minimum is a standard condition with Eircom, ESAT, UTV, SMART, Sky Digital etc.

K1 wrote:

It also seem by reading the small print that by continuing to use the service after 12 months has is expired is an indication of acceptence of another 12 mounth contract

No, after the intiial 12 months it becomes a 1-month rolling contract. Give 1 months written notice and its over. (see clause 7.2 of Eircom Broadband T&Cs )

K1

iano wrote:

True. 12 month minimum is a standard condition with Eircom, ESAT, UTV, SMART, Sky Digital etc.
No, after the intiial 12 months it becomes a 1-month rolling contract. Give 1 months written notice and its over. (see clause 7.2 of Eircom Broadband T&Cs )

I see ,,Not very good at the legal jargon!

K1

Hi Garfield
checked my free trial end date, its 22 March, I wonder is there any way to squeeze more time from eircom?? Everyone seems very negitive re LLU delays, Im on Santry B exchange. Give a real answer how much downtime am I looking at! Please please please dont give me the automated response Thanks

dub45

K1 wrote:

Have just read trough the T&C on eircoms site re broadband it .............., I would be interested to know what Smarts legal team make of this?

Unfortunately I dont think Smart at any stage prior to the launch of their product gave any consideration to the problems likely to arise for those who would wish to switch from their isp to Smart.

This is strange given that the most likely and enthusiastic customers for the type of product they were launching were those who would appreciate it most - those who understood it, 'the early adapters' and those most likely to have broadband already and to be using it regularly. There have been plenty of posts here in the past about the difficulties of changing isp and they were in 'solo' situations not the potential mass exodus (relatively speaking) which lie ahead.

Smart may say that it is up to the potential customer to deal with their own isp and make themselves available for a Smart connection but that will not satisfy the potential customers who will want to know the likely downtime invovled in any swithover situation. (Unfortunately I predict many threads on the switching situation in the not too distant future. I will be very glad to be wrong of course)

I think the wisest course for anyone is to wait wait wait and not do anything rashly until a fuller picture emergers but it is a difficult situation for those on the three month trials.

Incidentally I am already aware of one situation where a person who is not too familiar with the bb world and who is on the Eircom trial rang smart and obviously spoke to a very 'innocent' sales girl who told him Smart would be available to him and encouraged him to cancel his Eircom trial which he did and Eircom acted very quickly in his case and within a couple of days his bb was gone!!! (Now I know this is an untypical case but it is illustrative of the pitfalls ahead I think)

TVDX

Garfield, can you confirm to me that you are charged nothing until you get Broadband installed to your satisfaction.
Some people have been saying that as soon as you send in the DD form, you are hooked up to the phone service and charges begin immeidately.
Is this correct?.

dub45

TVDX wrote:

Garfield, can you confirm to me that you are charged nothing until you get Broadband installed to your satisfaction.
Some people have been saying that as soon as you send in the DD form, you are hooked up to the phone service and charges begin immeidately.
Is this correct?.

He has already said that this is not the case and that you are not obliged to accept anything until the bb is offered to you.

Infini

I've got a question about this. I heard smart doesn't have contention on it's package. What I'm wondering is would this mean that when I upload at 128kb that it would be close that speed in terms of actual speed or would I be closer to 15kb or so like with regular BB.

diarmo

I dont mean to be a smartass "Infini" but you do realise that ISP's sell their products using bits no Bytes.

1 Byte = 8 bits

So 512/128 (bits) would come out as 64/16 (Bytes) under 100% effeciency when using your comp.

15 Bytes/s of a maximum 16 is impressive in my book.

BTW.
In correct SI units KiloBytes = KiB and Kilobits = Kib
Higher Case (B) denoting Bytes
Lower case (b) denoting bits

On the other hand if you actually upload at 15kbits/s...then I recommend you find the CEO of your ISP and demand that he personially fix your connection :eek: :mad:

K1

dub45 wrote:

Unfortunately I dont think Smart at any stage prior to the launch of their product gave any consideration to the problems likely to arise for those who would wish to switch from their isp to Smart.

This is strange given that the most likely and enthusiastic customers for the type of product they were launching were those who would appreciate it most - those who understood it, 'the early adapters' and those most likely to have broadband already and to be using it regularly. There have been plenty of posts here in the past about the difficulties of changing isp and they were in 'solo' situations not the potential mass exodus (relatively speaking) which lie ahead.

Smart may say that it is up to the potential customer to deal with their own isp and make themselves available for a Smart connection but that will not satisfy the potential customers who will want to know the likely downtime invovled in any swithover situation. (Unfortunately I predict many threads on the switching situation in the not too distant future. I will be very glad to be wrong of course)

I think the wisest course for anyone is to wait wait wait and not do anything rashly until a fuller picture emergers but it is a difficult situation for those on the three month trials.

Incidentally I am already aware of one situation where a person who is not too familiar with the bb world and who is on the Eircom trial rang smart and obviously spoke to a very 'innocent' sales girl who told him Smart would be available to him and encouraged him to cancel his Eircom trial which he did and Eircom acted very quickly in his case and within a couple of days his bb was gone!!! (Now I know this is an untypical case but it is illustrative of the pitfalls ahead I think)

Very well put I agree If Garfield is still around hopefully he'a paying attention.. I think Smart are going to have to decide which customers they want to keep , considering there is also a customer base being generated here for thier voice product as well. I myself will give them till the end of eircoms trial if they can't commit themselves by then I will have to stick with eircom.. Look at it this was if they were advertising for customers to switch over on voice only then an unknown down time, SORRY ANY DOWNTIME would be unaccectable.. Garfield if your listening Your credability & your sales are dropping its time to do or die!!

jor el

Why do people keep harping on about the downtime when switching. Garfield has already answered this question. He doesn't know what downtime there will be, nor is he likely to find out because quite simply it's not up to him. Eircom are responsible for disconnecting any current bitstream product you may have and if they drag their heals over terminating that then there's SFA that Smart Telecom can do about it.

You already know what Smart's rollout schedule is and it's not likely that you, or anyone else, will be connected before your Eircom trial ends on the 22nd of March. You'll either have to take up the 12 month contract with Eircom or cancel and wait till Smart are up and running, it's that simple.

I suggest you complain to Eircom about downtimes when transferring your broadband connection to a competitor. Make sure you tell them your switching over because of their over priced and under powered service too or they'll never do anything to improve it.

Sorry to go on a bit.

Sponge Bob

If you enter a contract with Eirocm on the 1st of April for they €40 product and if you then cabncel on the first of June, Eircom will demand 10 x €40 cash 9the 10 months left) before they release your line to anotheer operator be they bitstream or llu

The closer to the end of your contract the cheaper it becomes to exit it by paying it off .

Then Smart can take it over in the normal way .

K1

jor el wrote:

Why do people keep harping on about the downtime when switching. Garfield has already answered this question. He doesn't know what downtime there will be, nor is he likely to find out because quite simply it's not up to him. Eircom are responsible for disconnecting any current bitstream product you may have and if they drag their heals over terminating that then there's SFA that Smart Telecom can do about it.

You already know what Smart's rollout schedule is and it's not likely that you, or anyone else, will be connected before your Eircom trial ends on the 22nd of March. You'll either have to take up the 12 month contract with Eircom or cancel and wait till Smart are up and running, it's that simple.

I suggest you complain to Eircom about downtimes when transferring your broadband connection to a competitor. Make sure you tell them your switching over because of their over priced and under powered service too or they'll never do anything to improve it.

Sorry to go on a bit.

Jor relax there I was never suggesting it's all smarts fault, all we want is an honest answer and for smart to stop "dragging thier heels " also . If its going to be 3 or six months thats fine, I I knew that I could then decide whether to stay with Eircom & pay the penelty, if need be, surly its not too much to ask Smart when they expect to get into varios Exchanges , a time span of 2 months is a bit much considering there is no mention of this on thier high profile advertising campaign... If when they were booking their ad on Tv RTE or TV3 said we will air your ads sometime in the next 8 weeks how would they feel???

dub45

jor el wrote:

Why do people keep harping on about the downtime when switching.

Its very simple - people are concerned about the possibilites of being without bb for a long period.

Garfield has already answered this question. He doesn't know what downtime there will be, nor is he likely to find out because quite simply it's not up to him. Eircom are responsible for disconnecting any current bitstream product you may have and if they drag their heals over terminating that then there's SFA that Smart Telecom can do about it.

Its not as simple as putting all the responsibility on Eircom. Smart have a role to play because for the first stage of the process they will need to give realistic connection dates to potential customers as to when Smart BB will be available- then (the notice period having elapsed) when the customer is free of his isp Smart will need to connect him pretty sharpish if hes not to be without bb for any sort of long period. That exercise will take quite a degree of planning, communication and coordination.

At the moment, at least as far as I can see Smart have no way of measuring the extent of this problem for themselves as they did not ask those who applied if they were already bb customers of another company. This would have been a useful piece of information to gather on sign up as it would have indicated how many people will need notice before they could avail of the service. They are going to have to go back to virtually all applicants to find this out.

Dont be surprised if and when new products are introduced by the other isps if they try to tie people in to new 12 month contracts to avail of them thus making it harder for Smart to get customers.

Blaster99

Garfield said they were going to look into it and come up with a solution. Why not just wait for that instead of going on endlessly about this?

I would have thought that it would be possible to have a month's overlap, so you only cancel the existing arrangement when Smart is up and going.

Sponge Bob

dub45 wrote:

Its very simple - people are concerned about the possibilites of being without bb for a long period.

Get Ripwave for the month ! You live in Dublin FFS there are plenty of wireless operators.

Its not as simple as putting all the responsibility on Eircom. Smart have a role to play because for the first stage of the process they will need to give realistic connection dates to potential customers as to when Smart BB will be available- then (the notice period having elapsed) when the customer is free of his isp Smart will need to connect him pretty sharpish if hes not to be without bb for any sort of long period. That exercise will take quite a degree of planning, communication and coordination.

Twaddle Dub45.

LLU has been mooted since the late 1990s and allegedly live for 3 years. During that time we have seen the finest of underhand behaviour from Eircom.

When Eircom were told to set a realistic price last year (still crap but better than before) they kept out of the High Court

When they were told to produce a process document guaranteeing times and responses for technical requests by LLU operators this was too much altogether and off they went to the High Court last month. Smart, during their planning and rollout phase , had a reasonable expectation that all of these issues would be sorted out by Comreg and Eircom by now. Unfortunately they bet on Comregs competence which was their mistake IMO.

Eircom have a long history of obstruction andand wilful behaviour designed to frustrate competition in Ireland . Why don't you direct your questions at Comreg and see what they say.

BUT STOP BLAMING SMART FOR THAT !

BUT if Garfield does not come back with answers to my questions PDQ on the Telephony product I will arrrive at the conclusion that Smart have something nasty to hide from their potential LLU customers on the Telephony side.

Yo! Garfield !!!!!!!

damien

Sponge Bob wrote:

Yo! Garfield !!!!!!!

Wasn't he told to cease and desist by DeVore ?

jor el

K1 wrote:

Jor relax there I was never suggesting it's all smarts fault, all we want is an honest answer and for smart to stop "dragging thier heels " also . If its going to be 3 or six months thats fine, I I knew that I could then decide whether to stay with Eircom & pay the penelty, if need be, surly its not too much to ask Smart when they expect to get into varios Exchanges

He already answered here and I doubt you'll get a more exact date than this for when they are going to be in any particular exchange.

My point was that changing bitstream providers is something completely different and has nothing to do with when Smart will be unbundeling exchanges. Obviously you can't change untill they're in the exchange but when they are then there is going to be downtime between providors. You have a contract with Eircom currently. It is therefore up to Eircom to terminate this service in a timely manner. If they take longer then there's nothing Smart telecom can do about it, and repeatedly asking the same question is not going to get you the answer you want.

, a time span of 2 months is a bit much considering there is no mention of this on thier high profile advertising campaign... If when they were booking their ad on Tv RTE or TV3 said we will air your ads sometime in the next 8 weeks how would they feel???

This is just pointless.

dub45 wrote:

Its very simple - people are concerned about the possibilites of being without bb for a long period.

That I understand and am concerned about it myself if I'm going to switch to Smart from EsatBT, but I don't see the point of asking them about downtimes before they even get into the exchanges. I'll wait till the exchange is enabled, because absolutely nothing can happen till then anyway, and then find out if the expected downtime is long or not. If you're about to enter a 12 month contract then you need to decide now whether you want Smart this year or next year and whether you can live without BB for a couple of months.

At the moment, at least as far as I can see Smart have no way of measuring the extent of this problem for themselves as they did not ask those who applied if they were already bb customers of another company. This would have been a useful piece of information to gather on sign up as it would have indicated how many people will need notice before they could avail of the service. They are going to have to go back to virtually all applicants to find this out.

Fair point, they should be asking that.

iano

Blaster99 wrote:

Garfield said they were going to look into it and come up with a solution. Why not just wait for that instead of going on endlessly about this?

I would have thought that it would be possible to have a month's overlap, so you only cancel the existing arrangement when Smart is up and going.

That's the whole point!!!
Eircom will REJECT any LLU order for a line that has broadband.
Therefore you can not have any overlap. You have to cancel your existing service, your provider has to cancel with Eircom wholesale, only then can Smart place an order and the process can begin.
Unless Eircom's procedure is changed to allow an LLU order on a line with broadband (so that you can overlap contracts) or there is a huge amount of co-operation and communication between the losing supplier, Eircom and Smart then you are going to be in limbo for an undetermined amount of time.
Why would IOLBB or UTV be bothered to provide timely feedback when they are losing a Customer even if they had the systems and resources to do it.

That's the problem. Nobody is blaming Smart for this but without a solution, they will struggle to connect customers. A large %age of their potential market has broadband from an existing supplier.

If it is not resolved, then you can expect to see a lot of frustrated would-be Smart customers posting here over the next few months as they remain unconnected or are without broadband for an extended period. That is why it is important for Garfield et. al. to keep us up to date (here or on their FAQ to avoid "pimping").

We await news of a solution ....... (after Smart, Eircom, ComReg, the Courts, the Industry etc. have come to a +ve conclusion!!)

K1

Blaster99 wrote:

Garfield said they were going to look into it and come up with a solution. Why not just wait for that instead of going on endlessly about this?

I would have thought that it would be possible to have a month's overlap, so you only cancel the existing arrangement when Smart is up and going.

Garfield said he would come back but HE HASN'T Garfield HAS said Santry would go live March/April It is2 weeks into March so therefore if is not unreasonable to expext them to be able to give a more exact indication of when. Like I said before now that the dates are arriving for thier exchanges to go live & customers are hearing nothing ( I hav'nt even got a reply to an e-mail requesting order confirmation) Smart ARE starting to loose credability as well as orders. I predict a lot of those 100000 will be cancelling orders before too long if more info is not forthcoming!

K1

Sponge Bob wrote:

Get Ripwave for the month ! You live in Dublin FFS there are plenty of wireless operators.

Twaddle Dub45.

LLU has been mooted since the late 1990s and allegedly live for 3 years. During that time we have seen the finest of underhand behaviour from Eircom.

When Eircom were told to set a realistic price last year (still crap but better than before) they kept out of the High Court

When they were told to produce a process document guaranteeing times and responses for technical requests by LLU operators this was too much altogether and off they went to the High Court last month. Smart, during their planning and rollout phase , had a reasonable expectation that all of these issues would be sorted out by Comreg and Eircom by now. Unfortunately they bet on Comregs competence which was their mistake IMO.

Eircom have a long history of obstruction andand wilful behaviour designed to frustrate competition in Ireland . Why don't you direct your questions at Comreg and see what they say.

BUT STOP BLAMING SMART FOR THAT !

BUT if Garfield does not come back with answers to my questions PDQ on the Telephony product I will arrrive at the conclusion that Smart have something nasty to hide from their potential LLU customers on the Telephony side.

Yo! Garfield !!!!!!!

Rip wave is about as usefull as chastity belts on a whore!! see these http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2461101

Moriarty

K1, smart have said they'll get in touch with people as their exchanges go live. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill imo.

joePC

I've signed up the SMART and sent the mandate in (No confirmation yet)

Q: Im on the Belcamp exchange (Live March/ April) --> March will come & go TBH, is the service going to be availiable in April, Do you have any Dates for this exchange.

Q: Im currently on IOL BB--> What is the downtime for me switching over to Smart.

Thanks, JoePC