3 "expelled" from IRA

mycroft

FTA69 wrote:

http://www.ulsternet-ni.co.uk/stra2403/spages/SNEWS.htm

Jesus FTA69 how thick can you be, if you'd have even read the articel YOU quoted you'd have seen

right after this;

Re-iterating Sinn Fein’s total opposition to so called punishment attacks, Councillor Jarlath McNulty said: “Sinn Fein is opposed to such attacks as we believe that they do not solve anything and are often counter-productive.

“However, ritual condemnation has not and will not bring an end to such shootings.

“The reality is that in the absence of a credible non-partisan and accountable policing service, that has the support of and can earn the allegiance of the entire community, people will look to other groups to fill the vacuum.”

Essentially the SF member said "yes I condemn puinishment beating but we have to have them because of BLAH BLAH F*CKING BLAH"

This is all the states fault.

Let me clear this up for you. Hugh Ord did I walk into the kids house and shoot him, republicians did. End of discussion.

And any condemnation which starts by saying we condemn but finishs with a dig at the police service is a conditional apology which shifts the blame in the SF apologists mind from the INLA to the police.

It's this kind of sickening mentality thats keeping us bogged down in this mess now.

Thats no apology in my mind.

An apology to me would be "This is wrong, this must stop, we must try and stop this NOW". Not "this is wrong, but......"

I'm sorry, but.... is no apology worth a damn.

Villain

Cork wrote:

It is reported that the guy who ordered the McCartney murder has not been expelled by the IRA?

Why??

I dont know maybe because he commited an awful crime

Cork wrote:

Either way they can't have links to illegal organisations.

Ah yes but Cork you said they have to use their association with the IRA to get them to disband, so how can they do that if they end their links.

You can't have it both ways. So Cork answer me this do you

A: Want SF to use their links with the IRA to get them to disband

or

B: End all links with the IRA.

A simple A or B answer will suffice.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

A: Want SF to use their links with the IRA to get them to disband

or

B: End all links with the IRA.

A simple A or B answer will suffice.

SF has not done either. The callapse in support for Adams reflects this.

I would like If the IRA wound up and SF decided it wanted to achiieve it policies soley thru democratic politics.

It is a question really for SF.

They are the organisation that has links to an illegal criminal organisation.

To this day - SF maintains it's relationship with the criminal IRA.

This is unacceptable.

With or without SF's help - the IRA has to go away - you know.

It's (Ira) members cannot continue murdering, imtimidation and cover ups.

Survallance of democratically elected public representatives also has to end.

What is the IRA up to this month? It has 3 less members. But what are the rest up to?

Cork

mycroft wrote:

The IRA are a terrorist organisation who have murdered, wounded, crippled and tortured for decades.

Reports today say the guy who ordered the attack on Robert McCartney has not been expelled by the IRA.

The IRA want to carry on regardless of the MCcartney murder.

IRA apologists can no longer throw past injustices back at us

The IRA has always had it's apologists. These will continue to justify IRA activity.

FTA69

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

How many times do we also have to remind you that the Irish people in the same referendum told the IRA to disband?

"Woe is us, we can't disband or give up our weapons, it's all the British Army's fault?"

Cr@p. We've told them what we want them to do, they're not doing it and the only failure in that respect is their own.

You are underlining my point really, all parties to said agreement have their own responsibilities and commitments, my point was that the IRA are not the only group with a responsibility to disarm etc, the prescence of an occupational force of British soldiers in areas such as South Armagh and West Belfast is as much an issue, as is policing reform. You can dismiss such issues as "crap" all you like but they are important to a substantial section of Irish people and until movement is made on them not much is going to change.

FTA69

Their menbership is probably 1 or 2 hundred.

Yeah, in Donegal maybe.

What do you mean by "substantial support"?

I mean the fact that the IRA could not have operated without the support of their communities in many areas over the years. The IRA relied on the community to provide safe-houses, getaway cars, food, clothing, arms dumps, information etc, this could not have been possible if they had the support of "1-2% of the Nationalist population" as the brits tried to get us to believe for years. Bobby Sands, an IRA Volunteer was elected in Fermanagh/South Tyrone, Paddy Agnew and Kieran Dohety (IRA Volunteers) became TDs for Louth and Cavan/Monaghan respectively. This support hasn't evaporated in the space of 10 years Cork.

FTA69

Jesus FTA69 how thick can you be, if you'd have even read the articel YOU quoted you'd have seen

Call me what you like mycroft but the article clearly outlines Sinn Féin's opposition to the attacks. The difference between them and the SDLP etc is that they examine the reason why they happen which is the only position of sense considering they don't occur out of thin air. Once the cause of these have been addressed the problem will go away, whinging about it and ignoring reality will help no-one.

Thats no apology in my mind.

Who said it was an apology??? Jarlath McNulty and Sinn Féin didn't commit this (or any others) so why should they apologise. There is a difference bertween condemning something and apologising for it.

mycroft

FTA69 wrote:

Call me what you like mycroft but the article clearly outlines Sinn Féin's opposition to the attacks. The difference between them and the SDLP etc is that they examine the reason why they happen which is the only position of sense considering they don't occur out of thin air. Once the cause of these have been addressed the problem will go away, whinging about it and ignoring reality will help no-one.

No they justify them and excuse them......

The problem is the IRA kneecapping and the latest invention the padre pedo (which is interesting and nice to know they're keeping their mind active and inventing new ways to cripple the youth of their areas)

Who said it was an apology??? Jarlath McNulty and Sinn Féin didn't commit this (or any others) so why should they apologise. There is a difference bertween condemning something and apologising for it.

Uh huh..... I think this pathetic "we're totally different groups" charade has been going on a little too long considering the events of the last few weeks.

Cork

FTA69 wrote:

Yeah, in Donegal maybe.



I mean the fact that the IRA could not have operated without the support of their communities in many areas over the years.

We are 18 years since the Hume Adams Talks.
The people of this island voted for the Good Friday Agreement.

But in 2005 - we still have the ugliness of the criminal IRA.

The ira accepts the concent principle.

Why does the IRA still exist?

iT HAS ZERO MANDATE TO CARRY OUT ANY ACT ON BEHALF OF THE IRISH PEOPLE.

SF is this associated with these thugs.

[ Daithí ]

Cork wrote:

We are 18 years since the Hume Adams Talks.
The people of this island voted for the Good Friday Agreement.

But in 2005 - we still have the ugliness of the criminal IRA.

The ira accepts the concent principle.

Why does the IRA still exist?

iT HAS ZERO MANDATE TO CARRY OUT ANY ACT ON BEHALF OF THE IRISH PEOPLE.

SF is this associated with these thugs.

Not everyone voted for the Agreement, you know. Those who support the IRA keep it going.

The IRA still exists because the British are still here. Was that so blindingly obvious that you couldn't even think of it?

"iT HAS ZERO MANDATE TO CARRY OUT ANY ACT ON BEHALF OF THE IRISH PEOPLE."

Jaysus. Do you lie awake at night, veins on your forehead throbbing, your mind brooding over how the IRA does things because it wants to? I'd see a doctor if I were you. ¬_¬

A Dub in Glasgo

mycroft wrote:

Do you really think that you can start throwing up links to miscarriages of justice and moral outrage at the deaths of innocents.

Of course I can

Cork

[ Daith&#237 wrote: »

The IRA still exists because the British are still here. Was that so blindingly obvious that you couldn't even think of it?

But the IRA supports the consent principle.

So, they have no reason to exist.

Why are we discussing the IRA in a politics forum - surely we should be discussing politics?

(Drinking coffee after 10pm used keep me awake at night - But I have conquered my coffee addiction)

oscarBravo

[ Daith&#237 wrote: »

Not everyone voted for the Agreement, you know.

That pesky democracy is a biatch, isn't it?

[ Daith&#237 wrote: »

The IRA still exists because the British are still here.

In Clonsilla?

Flukey

Did anyone see the report on the demo in Belfast today in support of the McCartneys? Eamon McCann was certainly in full voice as was the guy who tackled Alex Maskey.

Flukey

Tommie Gorman's interview with Ian Paisley was interesting too, when Paisley said he could see himself in government with Sinn Féin when they were completely committed to democratic politics and the IRA was completely gone. How things have changed!

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Of course I can

Because the IRA have commited plenty of "miscariages" of justice and killed plenty of children, and their apologists running around and holding up pictures of other dead children is sickening. You don't have the moral authority.

A Dub in Glasgo

mycroft wrote:

Because the IRA have commited plenty of "miscariages" of justice and killed plenty of children, and their apologists running around and holding up pictures of other dead children is sickening. You don't have the moral authority.

Of course I have the moral authority to highlight the murdering of children and innocents. The murdering has been deemed legal as well

ionapaul

irish1 wrote:

Go ask some members of the party you love so much what SF have done the peace process becuase even they would tell you that without SF there would not be a peace process.

Given that I (and many others on this boards and throughout Ireland) believe that SF and the IRA are flip sides of the same coin (feel free to have another rant on this if necessary), thanking / acknowledging SF's work for peace is like thanking a serial murderer for deciding to work (slooooooowly) towards becoming a law-abiding citizen. Maybe he'll only murder one person a year instead of 10 - but we must still be thankful! He is trying after all...and we all know what could happen if he stops trying :eek:

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Of course I have the moral authority to highlight the murdering of children and innocents. The murdering has been deemed legal as well

yeah you are confused. You see you don't realise whats happening.

The IRA/SF have seriously damaged their support in nationalist areas, and no longer can they claim they've got the unconditional support and mandate from these communties to represent them.

Basically, your bunch of murdering thugs have over stayed their welcome, and they've filled too many unmarked grave and crippled too many teenagers, to then have the audacity to start complaining about other murders.

The victims are reclaiming justice, you can't hid behind a pile of nationalist corpses while at the same time the IRA are adding bodies to the same pile.

Slutmonkey57b

FTA69 wrote:

You are underlining my point really, all parties to said agreement have their own responsibilities and commitments, my point was that the IRA are not the only group with a responsibility to disarm etc, the prescence of an occupational force of British soldiers in areas such as South Armagh and West Belfast is as much an issue, as is policing reform. You can dismiss such issues as "crap" all you like but they are important to a substantial section of Irish people and until movement is made on them not much is going to change.

I'm doing the exact opposite actually. And the fact that you're repeating the joke I made earlier about "wah we can't disarm yet" attitude only serves to illustrate how desperatly sad the apologists' arguments can get.

I'll quote directly from the Downing street declaration for you (you would have been about, what, 7 when this was released? So you probably don't know about it) http://www.sdlp.ie/party/downingstdec.shtm

The British and Irish Governments reiterate that the achievement of peace must involve a permanent end to the use of, or support for, paramilitary violence.

See? That's the first bit that states "The IRA can **** off now please." The Irish people ratified this sentiment in 1998 at 95% in favour. So what a "substantial section" of the Irish people want is in no doubt whatsoever.


Oh and just because it's my favourite bit of the whole document:

The Prime Minister, on behalf of the British Government, reaffirms that they will uphold the democratic wish of a greater number of the people of Northern Ireland on the issue of whether they prefer to support the Union or a sovereign united Ireland. On this basis, he reiterates, on behalf of the British Government, that they have no selfish strategic or economic interest in Northern Ireland.

If you really wanted to spin this another way, you could, but what it actually says is that The Prime Minister is firmly of the opinion that Norn Iron is an economic black hole stuffed with psychotic white trash scumbags that nobody in their right mind would want to have anything to do with. (imho)

Slutmonkey57b

FTA69 wrote:

Yeah, in Donegal maybe.



I mean the fact that the IRA could not have operated without the support of their communities in many areas over the years. The IRA relied on the community to provide safe-houses, getaway cars, food, clothing, arms dumps, information etc, this could not have been possible if they had the support of "1-2% of the Nationalist population" as the brits tried to get us to believe for years. Bobby Sands, an IRA Volunteer was elected in Fermanagh/South Tyrone, Paddy Agnew and Kieran Dohety (IRA Volunteers) became TDs for Louth and Cavan/Monaghan respectively. This support hasn't evaporated in the space of 10 years Cork.

They don't need support, they can just terrorise people into doing what they want. Barge in, take a dad hostage in front of his kids, tell them the RA will be using the house, bish bash bosh, another load of "supporters" all signed up.

shltter

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

I'm doing the exact opposite actually. And the fact that you're repeating the joke I made earlier about "wah we can't disarm yet" attitude only serves to illustrate how desperatly sad the apologists' arguments can get.

I'll quote directly from the Downing street declaration for you (you would have been about, what, 7 when this was released? So you probably don't know about it) http://www.sdlp.ie/party/downingstdec.shtm



See? That's the first bit that states "The IRA can **** off now please." The Irish people ratified this sentiment in 1998 at 95% in favour. So what a "substantial section" of the Irish people want is in no doubt whatsoever.


Oh and just because it's my favourite bit of the whole document:


If you really wanted to spin this another way, you could, but what it actually says is that The Prime Minister is firmly of the opinion that Norn Iron is an economic black hole stuffed with psychotic white trash scumbags that nobody in their right mind would want to have anything to do with. (imho)

we did not vote on the downing street declaration

oscarBravo

shltter wrote:

we did not vote on the downing street declaration

Who claimed we did? Slutmonkey57b said "The Irish people ratified this sentiment in 1998 at 95% in favour."

Slutmonkey57b

shltter wrote:

we did not vote on the downing street declaration

Another Informed opinion.


Downing St Declaration -> Good Friday Agreement -> Years of stonewalling, revisionist bullsh!tting and mudslinging by the criminal scumbags on both sides of the Norn Irish fence, depressing all and sundry.

Cork

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Another Informed opinion.


Downing St Declaration -> Good Friday Agreement -> Years of stonewalling, revisionist bullsh!tting and mudslinging by the criminal scumbags on both sides of the Norn Irish fence, depressing all and sundry.

They are still no arrests in this nurder.

The IRA expelled 3 - but what about the other IRA members?

People are still not going to the police because of intimidation.

They have got zero encouragement to go to the police from SF/IRA.

.

A Dub in Glasgo

A man has been arrested for questioning today

http://www.u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?pt=n&id=57321

cdebru

not very up to date

one man today

another guy was arrested a couple of days ago and released without charge

where have you got the information that no one has come forward

SF have encouraged people to do whatever they feel comfortable with

the IRA said they would not tolerate intimidation of witnesses

FTA69

I'm doing the exact opposite actually. And the fact that you're repeating the joke I made earlier about "wah we can't disarm yet" attitude only serves to illustrate how desperatly sad the apologists' arguments can get.

And you are simply repeating my statment regarding your blithe attitude to the British Army presence in this country. A Republican could simply revers your argument and criticise the lack of demilitarisation as "wah we can't disarm yet". IRA arms are not the only ones mentioned in the GFA you know.

I'll quote directly from the Downing street declaration for you (you would have been about, what, 7 when this was released? So you probably don't know about it) http://www.sdlp.ie/party/downingstdec.shtm

By your logic slutmonkey you have no right to comment on issues such as the Famine or WW2 as you weren't born then. Sure, lets just forget history altogether because we weren't around at the time... :rolleyes:

See? That's the first bit that states "The IRA can **** off now please." The Irish people ratified this sentiment in 1998 at 95% in favour. So what a "substantial section" of the Irish people want is in no doubt whatsoever.

Yep, they at the same time ratified policing reform and demilitarisation but where is the movement on that?

Johnny_the_fox

FTA69 wrote:

Yep, they at the same time ratified policing reform and demilitarisation but where is the movement on that?

well ... according to your government (being the south) - the department of foreign affairs.

Reduction of numbers and role of armed forces: the number of troops deployed has been reduced by 3,500 to less than 13,500; 5 of the 6 battalions on emergency tours of duty are now rear-based in Britain; military patrolling has been reduced by 50% since 1995, with routine patrolling now ended in many areas, including Belfast; a reduction of 21% in the number of Army helicopter flying hours; one of the six RIR regiments (5th RIR) has been disbanded.

Removal of security installations: 42 military installations have been closed, demolished or vacated, including 34 since the Good Friday Agreement. These include Crossmaglen sangar, Fort George, Cookstown and Whiterock, observation posts at Cloghoghue (Newry) and Broadway and Templar House (Belfast), and 6 Fermanagh border posts and the withdrawal of troops from 9 RUC stations. Additionally, 102 cross-border roads have been re-opened and requisitioned land has been returned to Crossmaglen Rangers GAA Club

Holding Centres: Castlereagh and Strand Road holding centres have been closed.

Not to mention a new Police Force ..

maybe you dont see the difference living down south...? :rolleyes:

true

FTA69 wrote:

And you are simply repeating my statment regarding your blithe attitude to the British Army presence in this country.

The British army presence in Free West Waterford ? Come off it FTA69.

As for the British army in N. Ireland, they are there solely as a result of the threat to life and property posed by terrorists. If the IRA and INLA had given up their armed struggle and weapons decades ago, there would be no need for a British army presence there now, any more than the need for a British army presence in Scotland, or a US army presence in Hawaii, or an Italian army presence in
Sicily.