best n.h. jockey of all time

fr wishy washy

i know that the careers of our current jockeys are'nt over yet so its hard to compare with retired jockeys etc but i thought it might be interesting to hear what people think of whats going on out there on the tracks.

of the current top jockeys who would include,AP Mccoy,R Walsh,P Carbury,TJ Murphy,R Johnson,BJ Geraghty i would pick Ruby Walsh as i think he is just a better all round jockey then the others (all of whom i have huge respect for).

of the retired i would single out two.Stormin Norman Williamson and John Francome who were both stylish and strong .

boys,i'm sure i'll think of more later on.

Chonaic

Mr Dunwoody was a good man, but i think Mark Dwyer was best jockey of the early 90's.

fr wishy washy

Chonaic wrote:

but i think Mark Dwyer was best jockey of the early 90's.

i thought he was probably the most stylish of his era alright but i did'nt think him the strongest when it came to a driving finish as he refused to do any unorthodox whip movements and always maintained the same rhythm.

Chonaic

Ye i suppose, i just remember him riding Jodami

fr wishy washy

Chonaic wrote:

Ye i suppose, i just remember him riding Jodami

i'm not disrespectful of the guy as he was a top jockey in his day and carried all his flat racing stye & experience to the n.h. game.

a great man to have a horse doing just enough out in the country and his timing was excellent.

tiedcottage

He couldn't win it, but any discussion on this topic would have to include P Scudamore. Francome for me when it comes to stylish. If you want nerves of steel probably Norman Williamson. If you want 110% on the remotest outsider, has to be AP McCoy.

fr wishy washy

tiedcottage wrote:

He couldn't win it, but any discussion on this topic would have to include P Scudamore.

forgot about him and he would indeed have to be mentioned .
very strong and a great judge of pace.

The jock

What about Charlie Swan one of the best irish jump jockey ever!

Morgans

IMO Charlie Swan would just about scrape into the top ten Irish jump jockeys in my time, and god only knows what went on before. The best jockeys riding today are in order

P Carberry - a lunatic but the best horseman, daring, has it all.
R Walsh - rarely makes mistakes, brilliant positioning sense, hardly ever gets caught tactically
T Murphy - As good a rider of a waiting race that Ive seen. Horses arrive in pole position to win a race, without even knowing that they have been competing.
B Geraghty just behind them

I dont like McCoy. For sheer bloodymindedness, he takes some beating, and getting horses that dont want to win to win, there is no one better. However, there is more to riding than throwing the kitchen sink at horses for 4m. David Bridgewater could do that, as could Rodi Greene etc.

It is the Robbie Savages of the jockey world, great to have on your side, wont let you down, all heart, but lacking the touch of class that makes them the outstanding player in the side.

Richard Dunwoody was probably the best of them all, with Francombe a stylist but slightly weaker in a finish. Maguire could throw the kitchen sink at horses but had a little bit more horsemanship to him than McCoy. A Thornton gets horses jumping well.

From what ive seen

Dunwoody
Francome
Carberry

tiedcottage

Swan was a great judge of pace coming from behind, a great man for a waiting game, but he MUST lose points considering his last five years or so were spent solely riding in hurdle races and not over fences, simply to try and extend his career and keep fit to ride Istabraq. I've nothing against him for doing that, but it must be a black mark against him. Did Thierry Doumen stop riding over fences just to ride Baracouda, or did S Smith-Eccles do the same to ride See You Then. No chance.

I admit Carberry is a supreme stylist, but sometimes his cockiness can get him into trouble and he's lost too many races with that cockiness. But as a horseman, he does indeed have everything. He's the sort of jockey you admire wen he gets it just right, but you wouldn't want to bet on him too often.

When it comes to coaxing horses to jump well I absolutely agree re A Thornton, who was ssential to French Holly's sadly stymied success. Mind you, AP can be just the same. I remember the ride he gave Our Vic in the Sun Alliance, he was basically schooling him in a Grade I. That he didn't get home up the hill took nothing away from his ride. Or his ride on Well Chief in the Arkle in similar fashion.

fr wishy washy

adrian maguire was as brave as they come and in my book was a top jockey until his injury.
i agree about cf swan re not riding over the bigger obstacles.i never thought the same of him after that.

rubberduckey

Whenever this debate crops up, far better judges than me tell me the best ever was Martin Moloney. Obviously we can only go on the reports from that era... on an interesting tangent whats the best ride anyone has ever seen, either national hunt or flat?? Lester's on Royal Academy has to be up there surely??

THE CAREER of Limerick's greatest ever jockey will be relived this weekend, with the launch of his biography.

A Legend in his Lifetime written by Guy St John Williams, tells the remarkable story of Manister's Martin Moloney.

Lord John Oaksey, writing the foreword is merely the first of many heap praise upon the 'greatest ever all round jockey'.

"Twelve years is not long to prove yourself the greatest all-round jockey there has ever been and Martin, needless to say, never dreamt of any such outlandish claim. But plenty of perfectly rational people have made it since on his behalf ....."

It is just over 50 years since a fall at Thurles races ended his short but amazing career at the age of 27.

A career lasting only 12 years started in 1939, when Martin rode his first winner, Chitor, at the Curragh. Just five years later he rode Knight's Crest to defeat the mighty Prince Regent in the Irish Grand National. Two further Irish Grand Nationals followed, on Golden View II and Dominick's Bar. Then there were three Irish Classics, the 1000 Guineas on Princess Trudy, the Oaks on Desert Drive and the 2000 Guineas on Signal Box. Martin was also placed in both the Derby and the Oaks at Epson, in addition to winning the Phoenix 1500 on Abadan.

The Manister man was champion jockey in Ireland from 1946 until 1951, while also finishing second in the English National Hunt championship to his elder brother Tim, a five times English champion.

A short but glittering career ended on Tuesday, 18 September 1951, when a fall from Bursary left him close to death, the base of his skull was badly fractured in the fall. However such was his commanding lead in the jockey's championship, that he retained his Irish championship for the year.

The previous year, 1950, Martin rode 116 winners in Ireland, his 70 National Hunt winners remained an Irish record until bettered by Charlie Swan, some 42 years later.

The book tells that also during this period Martin rode 61 winners in Britain, including 15 doubles and 4 trebles. Together with five winners in America, his total for the year was a truly staggering total of 182 winners.

The author, Guy St John Williams, outlines that even fifty years on Martin Moloney is still the benchmark to which all jump jockeys are compared.

"He is what few can ever be - a great all-rounder, and as such he must be classed as one of the best in the history of the Turf".