Playstation 3

projectmayhem

ok.. here we go:

expected LATE 2006 release

will use CELL chip (different architecture to current typical x86 arch), developed by IBM, Sony & Toshiba...

nVidia will make the GPU. they've been working on it for 2 years now

will utilise blu-ray discs (9 layers, with 25gigs or so)

CELL EXPLAINED:

The Cell Microprocessor At a Glance
CELL...bringing supercomputer power to everyday life with latest technology optimized for compute-intensive and broadband rich media applications

SUMMARY:
• Cell is a breakthrough architectural design -- featuring 8 Synergistic Processing Units (SPU) with Power-based core, with top clock speeds exceeding 4 GHz (as measured during initial laboratory testing).
• Cell is OS neutral - supporting multiple operating systems simultaneously
• Cell is a multicore chip comprising 8 SPUs and a 64-bit Power processor core capable of massive floating point processing
• Special circuit techniques, rules for modularity and reuse, customized clocking
structures, and unique power and thermal management concepts were
applied to optimize the design

CELL is a Multi-Core Architecture
• Contains 8 SPUs each containing a 128 entry 128-bit register file and 256KB Local Store
• Contains 64-bit Power ArchitectureTM with VMX that is a dual thread SMT design – views system memory as a 10-way coherent threaded machine
• 2.5MB of on Chip memory (512KB L2 and 8 * 256KB)
• 234 million transistors
• Prototype die size of 221mm2
• Fabricated with 90nanometer (nm) SOI process technology
• Cell is a modular architecture and floating point calculation capabilities can be adjusted by increasing or reducing the number of SPUs
CELL is a Broadband Architecture
• Compatible with 64b Power Architecture™
• SPU is a RISC architecture with SIMD organization and Local Store
• 128+ concurrent transactions to memory per processor
• High speed internal element interconnect bus performing at 96B/cycle
CELL is a Real-Time Architecture
• Resource allocation (for Bandwidth Management)
• Locking caches (via Replacement Management Tables)
• Virtualization support with real time response characteristics across multiple operating systems running simultaneously
CELL is Security Enabled Architecture
• SPUs dynamically configurable as secure processors for flexible security programming
CELL is a Confluence of New Technologies
• Virtualization techniques to support conventional and real time applications
• Autonomic power management features
• Resource management for real time human interaction
• Smart memory flow controllers (DMA) to sustain bandwidth

pic (pins used to show size):
http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=38918&vid=5

group of cells:
http://www.theinquirer.net/images/articles/bluey.jpg

bigger group of cells:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0208/kaigai008.jpg

i'm sure ken kutagari (mr. sony to you) is looking at a big picture of bill gates while saying "your move"...

darkened_corner

I'm already getting anticipatory shakes

tba

Info on Blu ray disks (they use a BLUE laser :eek: )
link

Looks good but its no atari jaguar

Winters

EA and Vivendi have already announced they are supporting Blu-Ray as their next format. I find it odd that Microsoft are still going to stick with DvD for their XBox 360, XBox Fridge or XBox2 or whatever they finally call it.

I have no doubt the system will use the Memory Stick Duo aswell as its memory stick format. If Sony want to puch the console as the 'Home Entertainment' system they are aiming for I'd exect you to be able to watch movies, pictures and listen to music through the memory stick [Like how you can on the PSP].

tba

Winters wrote:

Microsoft are still going to stick with DvD for their XBox 360, XBox Fridge or XBox2 or whatever they finally call it.

The eX-Box?

Ciaran500

Winters wrote:

I find it odd that Microsoft are still going to stick with DvD for their XBox 360.

There has been no official info on this, just speculation. Microsoft would be mad not to add HD-DVD drive to support WMV-HD.

Winters

They would be mad to install a HD-DVD drive as they would loose a lot of support from EA and Vivendi who have already announced their support for Blu-ray over HD-DvD.

Also, Microsoft have confirmed that they are going to use the normal DvD drive, but not officially [afaik].

Ciaran500

HD-DVD drives are afaik backward compatible to standard dvds. I don't think Vivendi/EA confirmed they will exclusively back one format or the other.

Microsoft did not confirm they would be using a DVD drive, officialy or unofficially.

D

So "offically" what's the unoffical line on this?

Winters

Backward compatable Blu-ray drives have already been developed.

EA and Vivendi have both joined the Blu-ray Disc Association. That pretty much shows their support for the superior of the next format.

CyberGhost

erm don't want to pee in your water but, expected in late 2006 will show up in the middle of 2007, first releases will have bugs, till they fix em and the price comes down a little - 2008-2008.5

Peteee

<My opinions>
PS3 should be unveiled at E3 (along with xbox 360 and ninty revolution)

Memory stick duos will take the place of memory cards. Would be stupid not too, you should also be able to play vids/mp3 off the mem sticks ala psp

Xbox should really go with blu-ray/HD-DVD drive (Preferably blu-ray, due to it being far superior) Think back to why you bought a ps2 in the first place, my 2 reasons 1)NEW PLAYSTATION 2)Cheap DVD player.

Dublinstiofán

Anybody any idea how much its gonna cost. Id say we'd wanna start savin now i cant it imagine that it will be cheap especially in Ireland were ripped off for everything as it is.

CyberGhost

I've red somewhere it will cost 450$

that's 500 euros here

dearg_doom

CyberGhost wrote:

I've red somewhere it will cost 450$

that's 500 euros here

Europe always gets raped for prices after conversion alright;

I wish they'd just use xe.com like the rest of us:D

rabbitinlights

How much was the RRP for the PS2 when it came out? I got stung by an ESB shop in Castlebar that would only sell it in a bundle for about £450 if I remember correctly, everyone was qing outside the games shops etc, and I just walked into the ESB shop at about 10am and bought one there, I nearly got lynched walking down the street by some father who didnt get one for his kid.........

I might wait this time till things settle down and you can just walk in and buy just the console.

dearg_doom

I think it was 399pounds

EDIT: no hang on, the N64 launched at 250, the old PS1 launched at 399, and I'm not too sure about the PS2

woops

thafitz

"expected late 2006" - thats a seriously long gap between consoles. and like cyberghost said there will be the inevitable delays.

Mohanned

Cant wait for it. It sounds cool

Jorinn

dearg_doom wrote:

I think it was 399pounds

EDIT: no hang on, the N64 launched at 250, the old PS1 launched at 399, and I'm not too sure about the PS2

woops

£329 I think I paid for mine on day of launch, was up from the original £299 that Sony had planned for Ireland.

Infini

Just found this. Sony announced that they're going to reveal the PS3 at this years E3 games expo. Heres the article...
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6075.cfm

po0k

I heard from a source that the PS3 would be "Quad-core". I asked my source if it meant 4 'Cell' cores or just one Cell made up of 4 SPUs and the Power Core (as the Cell will be available in multiple configurations).

Has anyone heard anything on this?

Citizen_Erased

Dont they realise how far behind this thing is going to be when it comes out?
It is already behind the level of Pc and it isnt even going to come out to public for ages. So when it comes out , it'll be to a new Pc what a gameboy is to a current pc. Seriously people, get proper Pcs.

Nietzschean

Um thats the most redilicious comment i've heard in a bit, consoles haven't beaten pc's for gaming processing power in several years......


As for this, tbh i just wanna play with the 64bit cell cpu's....... the possible configurations of these things will annihlate ur pc easily(bare in mind these cell cpu's are being use to build bluegene l (have a quick look over to www.top500.org) , granted 65000 of them but still)


As for HD-DVD being backwards compatable , its not, it like blu-ray uses a different laser than dvd's. There will be backwards compatable drives as there is for blu-ray , but multi-laser drives cost more.....

Citizen_Erased

Its more than just their power they also lack that thing that thing under your right hand that is necessary for all games to be truely brilliant. ( the mouse for those of you that are mentally challenged) . It is the key to everything. So if it lacks game play, graphics , speed, interchangability, versitility and it cannot be legal expanded beyond insert an overpriced accessory in the back then why on this sane earth do you want one? Please tell me ????

CyberGhost

so... as I understood, you basically don't like consoles?

btw, don't you think sony thinks about how pcs develop? I think they have whole department dedicated to that, thinking ahead of time and beating competition

plus todays fastest pcs can hardly run ps2 games(and ps2 is only 300mhz), no no actually they can't run them at all, 12 fps at most

ps3 will be a killer, and since they are planning to use the cell in desktop pcs too, that must be something interesting

another thing, XDR RAM was offered for ps3, and they declined it, saying it was too slow for them, and XDR hasn't even been released yet as I know
red about it on register.co.uk

Citizen_Erased

CyberGhost wrote:

plus todays fastest pcs can hardly run ps2 games(and ps2 is only 300mhz), no no actually they can't run them at all, 12 fps at most

Lol - That is because of a coding problem, emulaters being a joke and everything. So if todays best pc cant run a ps2 game then by the reverse in theory a pc game such as , oh i dont know, say Half Life 2 wouldn't be a problem for the ps2 then, because taht seems to be what you just said. I do not hate consoles, I own one or two, fix ones here and there etc... I just think that the hyp about the ps3 is annoying , why is everyone so excited about a piece of inferior kit and going mad over its pathetic preformance stats?
Its old tech already, but is this somehow justified by the fact its named a "console" and not dubbed a "Pc"?

CyberGhost

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Lol - That is because of a coding problem, emulaters being a joke and everything. So if todays best pc cant run a ps2 game then by the reverse in theory a pc game such as , oh i dont know, say Half Life 2 wouldn't be a problem for the ps2 then, because taht seems to be what you just said. I do not hate consoles, I own one or two, fix ones here and there etc... I just think that the hyp about the ps3 is annoying , why is everyone so excited about a piece of inferior kit and going mad over its pathetic preformance stats?
Its old tech already, but is this somehow justified by the fact its named a "console" and not dubbed a "Pc"?

yeaanooo, ps3 is a neold technology I'm exciannoyed about it...

..uhhh this guy is convincing me :eek: ,... somebody prove him wrong!

thafitz

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Seriously people, get proper Pcs.

eh why? so we can keep spending loads of money every so often on upgades just so are pcs can play the latest games. at least with a console you know you will still be able to play the latest games 4/5 years down the line without having to upgrade anything.

tba

There are two sides to this argument (of course).

• The PC has versatility in its design, oft confused as a defiency in certain peoples eyes. Unfortunatly to make use of this fantastic machine and its many variants you must be informed in their endless variances.
  
• The console has a rocksteady and well deserved reputation for being excellent for playing games (that is what they are designed to do). Once again many people confuse the ease of use that comes from using consoles as a lack of versatlity.

The bottom line is that generaly you should play to your strengths and desires, I for example do not enjoy using consoles, because of their selection of games and the poorer resolution that they provide.

My friend however hates PCs, mainly because as he is a casual gamer cannot use them out of the box as with most consoles.

Citizen_Erased

thafitz wrote:

. at least with a console you know you will still be able to play the latest games 4/5 years down the line without having to upgrade anything.

So by latest game , on consoles, what you mean is a rehash of a previous game running on exactly the same engine as before? Because games only get better oon a console whenever a new machine comes along, apart from that its rehash after rehash... You have been waiting for a "new" game since the ps2 came out all those years ago by real standards...

Ps Its not about certain preferences, its about idiocy and stupidy against people
who dont hire someone to screw in a lightbulb!

tba

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Ps Its not about certain preferences, its about idiocy and stupidy against people
who dont hire someone to screw in a lightbulb!

thats not fair, some people havn't got time to devot to getting PC games to work.

Citizen_Erased

Pc games do not take time to get to work , that is a stereotype brought about by the users of dell. The computer companies have people convinced that every thing their computer does is a problem and if they ever need to install something to call a qualified technician @23 euros an hour to fix it and then he , for some starnge reason, takes 4 hours to install worms????

You only get problems installing games if you dont first read to see if your pc is up to it (kindly noted on the back of every game box) or if you are dealing with pirate software...

tba

It is certainly harder than merely checking to see if the game is made for your console.

Citizen_Erased

But if your game disk gets scratched with a console thats it - no more game full stop. On a pc , the disk is just an accessory which plays no part so the game will run just fine regardless of its conditon - is that not a good enough reason to install a game. (I recently had to rebuy MGS2 because my goddamn friend broke it!!!) On a Pc , If you lose the disk all together all you need is a small download and its away again - and that is not illegal if you bought the origional game.
You cannot mod/expand ps games for the same reason.

Nietzschean

CyberGhost wrote:

plus todays fastest pcs can hardly run ps2 games(and ps2 is only 300mhz), no no actually they can't run them at all, 12 fps at most

Based on that comment alone i think i'll dis-regard any future technical comments by yourself. Because :
1. ps2 and pc's cpu's are based on different archtectures so comparing clock cycle times is pointless.
2. If you bothered to look any 'console' game released for the pc run's at higher proformance on a decent rig with better graphics and so on(referring to the gta series here mostly).
3. Making outlandish comments referring to 12fps is just silly.

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Pc games do not take time to get to work , that is a stereotype brought about by the users of dell. < some more woffle here>

TBA is of course right pc games can take a hell of alot more work to get running than a console game. You can have graphics driver conflicts, other driver conflicts. Thats not even including software conflicts with your AV, possible directx problems. Then you have the constant upgrading to be able to run the newest games, the posibility of a game not supporting your graphics card because it doesn't have something like hardware T&L even though u have plenty of vid memory and so on .




Within a year or so of the console's release if it doesn't happen before its release high end pc's will surpass it in proformance, but then again i don't know about some others with high end ones but my last gfx card cost me 450 euro, then there is the 1.5gigs of ram, the dual xeon's, the scsi hd's, the 21" monitor, the 7.1 + 5.1 sound systems ... you can see this adding up quite fast no? you get what u pay for.....

On a pc , the disk is just an accessory which plays no part so the game will run just fine regardless of its conditon - is that not a good enough reason to install a game. (I recently had to rebuy MGS2 because my goddamn friend broke it!!!)

Firstly its in breach of your licence to use the game to copy it. You don't own the game you have a licence to use it. Secondly with new copy-protection systems and constant patches from the net no-cd cracks are a mine field that can result in frequent full re-installs. In both cases the game publisher will usually replace the disk within a reasonable ammount of time aslong as the damage is within normal wear and tear.

projectmayhem

the best argument for consoles over pc's is that everyone is on a level-playing field. no one has a better graphics card or processor, and so when you play each other online, you're all equal (apart from skill, naturally)...

also, consoles tend to be more inavitave. the ps3's cell chip will make a huge impact on the pc market, possibly replacing the archane x86 architecture...

OY

If i could throw my two cents out there...

I am not saying that this is a bad thing because it is progress and i do not want the technology to stand still at all. But i have to say that i am astonished by the difference in games from when a console first comes out to when it is dying.
Think back to the Playstation when it first came out and the difference betweek the games released in the beginning of its life and the games at the end. They are leagues apart in terms of quality!
I guess what i am saying is that it is a shame that just as developers get to grips with a console and are publishing truly awesome games the market changes and a new system is out.
At the saem time i do not think we should not move forward as clearly the next generation of consoles are better. It is just a shame is all.

popinfresh

PCs are better for FPS games. Consoles are better for driving games fighting games etc.. And TBH, consoles ARE CHEAPER than pcs. Having said that I own a PC,X-box,Ps2,dreamcast. I refuse to play FPS games on anything other than a pc. But I hate playing racing-car games on the PC. It depends on the game really.

Oh and if you buy a ps3 (regardless of the power of pcs) you're gonna be using ur ps3 till 2010. If u want to maintain a Top Of The Rance pc you're gonna have to upgrade more than several times before then

funky penguin

SyxPak wrote:

I heard from a source that the PS3 would be "Quad-core". I asked my source if it meant 4 'Cell' cores or just one Cell made up of 4 SPUs and the Power Core (as the Cell will be available in multiple configurations).

Has anyone heard anything on this?

PcFormat say that it will have FOUR Cell CPU's with eight seperate processors in each one.

iregk

I think the big point here that has only been mentioned once is comparing like for like. You can't compare a porsche 911 to a peugeot 307!!!

PC is the much better system for games, shows 2x and more the res of a ps2 or xbox and has much better sound. Also when it comes to FPS you just can't beat the mouse/keyboard combo. So the PC wins hands down. Just look at the difference between GTA running on a good pc at top res than a PS2 version.

Problem is the ps2 or xbox cost a few hundred euro, a top line graphics card alone costs twice the ps2 or xbox, thats before you throw in the memory, cpu etc... So if you want a top line pc for games its going to cost 7 - 8x that of a console so I think its a little unfair to compare the two and dont come back with but we are comparing because they both play games! Can you compare the engine in a toyota supra with that in a 306 Diesel just because they both have turbos?