travellers and ethnicity

The Corinthian

billy the squid wrote:

A quick google turned up evidence which would disagree. The travelling community does not have a centuries old written history, so one has to depend on references to irish travellers from other sources.

And yet another quick Google would turn up evidence that would not disagree. The point I made is that the historical origin of the Travellers is disputed and most neutral sources would cite this dispute.

DadaKopf wrote:

Why is everyone so fixated on language?

Because language is a common component of ethnic identity and because it was cited in this case and this citing is in dispute.

The UN Convention on the Elimination of all forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD) clearly recognises that self-identification is a vital component of ethnic identity

Where does it clearly recognise self-identification as a vital component of this?

Of course self-identification may well be a component of ethnic identity, but as with language it is simply a component and in itself does not an ethnic identity make.

People here also seem to think that ethnic boundaries and markers are somehow clear and distinct and geographically fixed - they're not always, so when you go to look at the histories, fine dig up what you want but what's actually important is how members of ethnic groups see themselves as different from others. Period.

You chastise people here for setting distinct boundaries for ethnic identity, and then you go and set a distinct boundary for ethnic identity, in the shape of self-identification?

Com’on; what are you saying? Do as I say, don’t do as I do?

I would however agree in that the debate is getting bogged down in definitions of ethnicity. The discussion is ultimately about the use of ethnic identity to protect a lifestyle or culture. Should this mean that we should respect the practice of female circumcision in Africa because it is part of a culture? Perhaps the caste system in India? And what of the protection of the settled lifestyle or culture?

The problem with the Travelling ‘culture’ is that it is blatantly parasitic. It’s not the only sub culture that is parasitic (there are plenty of settled families that have lived off welfare for generations), however regardless of its ethnicity (which is disputed) this does not give it a free pass to behave in an anti-social manner with respect to the rest of Society.

Mercury_Tilt

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