Is Iraq better or worse??

ozhawk66

Well argued.

You put those points across very well, and truly showed all of us mis-informed skeptics why we're all completely wrong.

Bravo, sir. Bravo. A finer, more rationally-argued post has not been seen here in many a year.


Well argued? I see you have graduated from the basics of debate, 101.

If you can do and find yourself better as a better person - in debate - I will be glad too inform the likes of you, how mis-informed you are - and tell you, how 'rational' you are, and repeat, somehow Bravo too me.

Bravo, Sir? I am wrong.



The next time you try too confront me, don't be so stupid. Hit me with your best shot......dealing in reality.

bonkey

ozhawk66 wrote:

If you can do and find yourself better as a better person - in debate - I will be glad too inform the likes of you, how mis-informed you are

You've already informed the likes of me how mis-informed we are.
What you haven't done is explanied why....which is what I was pointing out.

The next time you try too confront me, don't be so stupid.

I wasn't aware that pointing out (albeit sarcastically) that you hadn't actually offered any reasoning to support your assertion was considered stupid.

Hit me with your best shot

Hit what with my best shot? YOu have offered no reasoning as to why the original post was wrong, choosing instead to make a bald statement. So there's nothing there to shoot at.

I suppose you could be asking me to shoot at VDHs "incredibly accurate - not propaganda" article, but I've already pointed out that factual accuracy and balance are not the same thing, and that while it may be factually accurate, the facts have been chosen in a very unbalanced manner.

So if you don't mind, I'll save my best shot until you've actually dealt with those opening salvos rather than just dismissing them as stupid (again, with a notable lack of reasoning as to why).


jc

The Corinthian

ozhawk66 wrote:

Coalition of the willing pulling out of Iraq? That shows how ignorant you are of the situation, in Iraq. I'm an American who, happens too live in Sydney. Last week, there was a major up-roar, about Australia sending an extra 400+ troops, to make up for the Danish, I think........guess what? When the Australian people were told what was going on, they accepted it.

Nonetheless the number of countries in the coalition is dwindling, leaving the burden of occupation to be met by a decreasing number of participating States.

As an observation, of course, it probably doesn’t help that the US keeps on opening fire at its allies.

LOL.....I'd love to hear your explanation, of Saddam being a US friend! Go ahead, but be very, VERY carefully on your historic description of reality.....back in the mid/late 80's.

It’s actually quite well documented - here’s one source:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

In very simple terms, Iraq was a major oil producer, secular and (most importantly) belligerent towards Iran, that had been the US’s bad books ever since the Islamic revolution. This status only changed when Iraq started being belligerent towards nations that were in the US’s good books.

This is one of theee most IGNORANT statements I've ever heard, proposed in debate. Please, do better than equating, of the boilng of....

Actually you’ve not actually rebutted his accusation, simply feigned indignation. And there is evidence of such behaviour by Karimov, as well as other evidence of oppressive or even tyrannical policies by him and other national leaders in the region that presently enjoy US favour.

Don't tell me how Americans felt, after 9-11. The world seemed to forget, yet, while we remembered.

He wasn’t. He was telling you how the rest of the World felt about the US - he was, after all, responding to a point on the subject of anti-Americanism.

Of course, this mentality with people like you, treated us with the "victim" mentality after 9-11. It's when we, as a nation, decided.........

In the context of what you’re saying, this makes no sense. Could you elaborate?

Hobbes

ozhawk66 wrote:

First off, prove the kickbacks. Now, please explain the ' Oil for food always brought' comment, on your part.

Its like "Cheese eating surrender monkeys comment". It seems to be used as argument to belittle the UN/Europe when in fact US companies were up to no good too.

Look I really can't be assed to keep posting links back to resources that a newbie is too lazy to actually go look themselves. You post one story and claim it is fact but from what I can see you didn't even bother your ass to research that story to see if it is true or not.

I should point that links I am posting is for you to research further, so don't go refuting the links as BS unless you have proof to back it up.

LOL.......GAG.........Please, if you can POSSIBLY prove this one, do so.

Prove what exactly? As I said it is common knowledge. Have you actually done any research on Haliburton?

Abusing the oil-for-food or Bypassing sanctions for profit.

Leftist bilge? Come back with some actual facts rather then name calling.

If you recall correctly, then you can prove it so. I know you can't.

As I said, as I recall. However knowing I can't isn't the same as proving I am wrong. I'll let you have that one though as my memory on that is sketchy and I can't be assed looking for a useless fact.

Really? You have shown your basic ignorance, and media inspired, opinion of America's finest. Keep doing so.....

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=85338
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/06/troops/ (Donald Rumsfield says so himself the leftist bastard!).
http://abcnews.go.com/US/BreakingItDown/story?id=569054&page=1

But my cousin has done two tours in Iraq, one of those was extended beyond its time and it is looking like his second one is too.

I recommend you go read the selective service site as well.

Coalition of the willing pulling out of Iraq? That shows how ignorant you are of the situation, in Iraq.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat_coalition.htm
gives a breakdown of current and future numbers.

I'd like for you too back up your 'withdrawing' from the tsunami comment, bull#$*t.

http://www.showmenews.com/2005/Jan/20050120News012.asp

Do you even know how to use google?

Please, don't try and rewrite history on me. Tell me why the UN left and weren't willing to "monitor" the election?

? They didn't leave. They were in the country. They were forbidden on watching the election on the day. They were even in the country after the election. Do you really need a link for this too? Or are you capable of reading news sites yourself?

Really? What possesses you too say this? Your version of reality, that hasn't taken place?

The laws put into place in Iraq by the US, Iran-contra affair, Supplying weapons to Saddam and then attacking him when he attacked Kuwait, Support Kuwait (which only allows 15% of its population to vote, very democratic), supplying Isreal with one of the biggest military budgets in the world and sitting back while they whack Palistine while slapping Palistine for retaliating.

I could go on and TBH I am not going to post links for these as anyone with knowledge of history would know this stuff.

LOL.....I'd love to hear your explanation, of Saddam being a US friend!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam

Ooh look they even have Rumsfield shaking hands with him and the video too.. Do you live in a box or something? Just about everyone knows this.

Prove it. And be careful what you say and prove....in the context of pre-9-11.

I really should of asked you to prove your news article, would of saved me a bit of work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/pipeline_timeline.htm
http://tiger.berkeley.edu/sohrab/politics/taliban+us.html

This is one of theee most IGNORANT statements I've ever heard, proposed in debate. Please, do better than equating, of the boilng of....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=233717
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/03/karimovprof.htm
http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/us-and-uz.htm

]Don't tell me how Americans felt, after 9-11. The world seemed to forget, yet, while we remembered.

Reread. I didn't. I was referring to the rest of the world which was well behind the US until it started showing imperialist features.


There have been other crossroads that proved historic as well — the promotion of good transitional figures like Hamid Karzai and Ayad Allawi,...

You have one puppet dictator who has no real power and you have another who wasn't voted in to begin with and help set up a secret police in Iraq using Saddams own secret police as recruits. He is also referred to as "Washintons puppet" in Iraq.

Again, leftist dogma on your part. If what you say is true, then prove it. Just don't say it. I'm talkin this whole paragraph you typed.

Both are well documented, I'm getting a bit sick of supplying links to be honest for someone who can't even be assed to check themselves.

Really? Since when? Give us recent examples of the populace backing up Sadr?

Backing up and still around are two different things. Read the bloody news.

Realy? Chems in Fallujah? Where do you get this (bilge) from?

As I said reports of chemical weapons. Take your pick...
http://news.google.co.uk/news?q=Fallujah%20chemical%20weapons&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wn

Really? I'd love to see your links/ examples of mass Iraqi demonstrations, telling the Americans too leave. If this scene was so prevalent, please show me an example of?

Search the forum for Iraqi elections, just how lazy are you?

No.. put up or shut up. Hows about proving all the points in the article you so posted as "fact".

uberwolf

Hobbes wrote:

. Hows about proving all the points in the article you so posted as "fact".

ozhawk66 your posts to date have been nothing but bluster. Please in future back up your statements. Otherwise I'll simply presume you're trolling and take appropriate action.

Hobbes

I just want to say in ozhawk66s defence. Opinion is not a problem. If you say something is fact it is up to you to back it up. I don't have a problem being proved wrong as long as I can see where the person is getting the information from. Allows me to research thier source.

AmenToThat

Apparently Italy (fourth biggest contibuter of troops in Iraq) is to start pulling its troops out from September.

Kare Bear

Voting stations not told of thier location until on the day and moved without notice as well as not opening on time and some closing early

Do they not have to do that.Or else they'll get mortared and bombed on the day

Kare Bear

pete wrote:

The important thing is those 100,000 died happy and free from oppression.

How did they.Lots died in Sadams prisions.And were persecuted by hes "police".

rsynnott

A lot of women's rights groups aren't keen on the regime change. It has become common for women walking the streets without the burkha to be attacked but fundamentalists. Say what you want about Sadaam, but his police were good at discouraging this sort of thing.

Will things improve there in the long term? Doubtful; it looks to be going the way of Iran already...

pete

Kare Bear wrote:

How did they.Lots died in Sadams prisions.And were persecuted by hes "police".

Might I suggest that you may find the answer to your question in the post I was quoting?