Chili Peppers New Album

curtains

Exactly upmeath, so I won't discuss other bands now...

As for John Frusciante, he is my favourite guitarist - I like his feel for melody and chord cahnges, I like the way he relies more on chordal notes than scales, I like the feel and the approach he has for his instrument, I like the way he buckets of technical ability but chooses instead to express what he feels with all the notes that are necessary, he feels the funk but also loves completely different bands like Joy Division and Frank Zappa, is a kick-as solo artist, he is a lot less messy than Jimi hendrix in my opinion (seen as he's someone we've mentioned already), I also think he's a great vocalist, but that's another matter.

And for anyone who doubts his technical ability
1. When he was 17 he got the job of replacing Steve Vai in Frank Zappa's band.
2. There are videos from 1989-1992 and 1997 showing him shredding and stuff thatt like that (which i'm not a huge fan of) but this isn't just shredding this is out of this world playing and still maintaining some kind of atmosphere.

upmeath

curtains wrote:

he is a lot less messy than Jimi hendrix in my opinion

Whether it's your opinion or not, that's almost blasphemic. I hope you have heard, studied and played Hendrix's entire back catalogue before you try to back that one up.

curtains

I'd be lying if I said i heard or could play every last cd of his (q: can you?)and believe me i'm not undermining his place as one of if not the greatest guitarists that ever lived and his importance in rock music. But it's hard to say that he always hit every right note, never went out of time, or wasn't occasionally a bit off-kilter in his live playing. Cases in point would be Fire, Star Spangled Banner, Wild Thing, among others, not to mention his often disharmonious solos which you seem to dislike. I was not saying that John Frusciante is a better guitarist than Hendrix, merely commenting that he is less prone to these kind of errors. btw I'd prefer if you didn't ignore the rest of my post.

upmeath

curtains wrote:

(q: can you?)

I'm working on it, I've about thirty of his songs down to what friends would call a t, including Hey Joe, Crosstown Traffic, Purple Haze, and all the other greats.

curtains wrote:

it's hard to say that he always hit every right note, never went out of time, or wasn't occasionally a bit off-kilter in his live playing

I can see where you're coming from here. It confused me while I was learning his stuff at first that his timing seemed to control the drums, rather than the drumming controlling his timing. But it is infact the drums doing the work, jimi always ends up back where he started for transitions. Try playing Crosstown Traffic, you're doing well if you can suss out the timing there, but when you do you realise it's your ear and not jimi's timing that needs seeing to.

curtains wrote:

not to mention his often disharmonious solos which you seem to dislike

Never said any such thing, I mentioned disharmony and scale breaking in relation to Frusciante only (See moderators, here we are, back to good old John Frusciante!). If you read articles on Hendrix's guitaring youth you'll soon learn that he spent the first 4 years of guitar playing life learning all the scales, blues, pentatonics, minors, majors, different tunings and all.

curtains wrote:

I was not saying that John Frusciante is a better guitarist than Hendrix, merely commenting that he is less prone to these kind of errors. btw I'd prefer if you didn't ignore the rest of my post.

As already stated, they're not errors. To quote Lisa Simpson: "You have to listen to the notes he's not playing". Ah yeah, but seriously, there's a lot in there that people might see as error and slips but when you sit down and start to play it you just unlock the genius of Hendrix's music. TRY IT!!!

ExoduS 18.11

Tom morello>John Frusciante
The reason the audioslave haven't the same edge as ratm (dont get me wrong there a great band) is because theres no fire behind it... ratm's music was fueled by oppositon to right wing etc! anyways if totally steered off topic ! :P

funky penguin

upmeath wrote:

As already stated, they're not errors. To quote Lisa Simpson: "You have to listen to the notes he's not playing". Ah yeah, but seriously, there's a lot in there that people might see as error and slips but when you sit down and start to play it you just unlock the genius of Hendrix's music. TRY IT!!!

Have you done the same with John Frusciantes work?

curtains

regarding hendrix: that was interesting and insightful; i'm currently having 'fun' with voodoo chile myself but will try crosstown traffic next. i'm still of the opinion that if it doens't sound right to your ear then it's not right but isee where you're coming from.

funky penguin has a point, a lot of frusciante's stuff is less about the notes themselves but the spaces between them.

upmeath

yeah i can play absolutely anything frusciante's written, i've been able to do so since i was about 14 or 15. it's clear that he puts great effort into his studio work and dont get me wrong, it sounds great, my gripe is with his freestyle live stuff. i just dont like it, it's a thing i have. it of mediocre quality compared to his studio material and its just kind of whiney, repetitive, and imo him trying to be some wizard of on-the-spot improvisation, which he's certainly not.

curtains

k, i take your point but i really would advise you to check out his solo stuff and his recent live things (from the performance 1 - 12 shows in LA). in terms of guitar solos and all that he released a record last year with his band ataxia that has some not hugely spectacular or overly-complex guitar playing but is quite fresh and interesting sounding and was definitley a new departure for him. he also released (among 6 other albums last year) inside of emptiness a really 60s/70s rock record in the vein of iggy pop and the velvet underground and the such which features a number of very classical guitar solos. also i ahve to say that while all his guitar playing from cali onwards ahs been easy mother's milk and all the live performances that surrounded it are insane, the chord based things that he does in songs like punk rock classic and most of the early live jams are harder than any fast guitar solo. anyway....

funky penguin

Dont forget the couple of solos he did for mars volta.

Listen upmeath, I'm never gonna agree that his solos are off key, cos in my opinion keys and words like "disharmony" are just barriers we've placed infront of ourselves.

Or maybe i'm just thinkin what Jaco once said about music: "If it's good, I dig it". I phrase I learned of about 5 years ago and have since lived by.

upmeath

key, scale, harmony, melody. they're the criteria in the universal declaration of human ears' rights. they're not barriers created by man, if you study basic physics or sound engineering for a short while you're going to realise whatwith different frequencies and wavelengths and shiznit that those words hold a purpose, and despite creating limitations, they actually protect your ears! ok curtains, must give ataxia a listening to!

funky penguin

upmeath wrote:

. they're not barriers created by man,

Yes they are. We have labelled them, called them laws and therefore created a restriction that peolpe seem to think unbreakable.

Imagine if galileo accepted that the world was flat.

Or if Alexander said at Gaugamela : "Hold on chaps, they've got over 600,000 troops, and we have a respectful 50,000*. The laws of numbers say we should show our assess and let the persians fuuck them".

What if Monk had decided to play piano the way most people did before him, instead of breaking the rules and helping to pave the way for modern jazz?

All IMO of course.

* Numbers according to Arrian

upmeath

what you said about monk is an artistic law. these are PHYSICAL LAWS. the kind of **** that causes buildings and bridges to collapse, your mp3 player to give up on life, why does the man die when he jumps out of the seventh floor window? man wasnt made to do it. let me give you a word: cacophony. it basically means sounding like a stool (but in english). breaking the laws of harmonics and sound gives this result musically! can we just get a sound engineer from temple bar or dundalk or wherever on to clarify this? you dont cross scales in a song. if you've learned any instrument or studied leaving cert physics this crap will have been drilled into you, and that's been done for a reason.

upmeath

funky penguin wrote:

Yes they are. We have labelled them, called them laws and therefore created a restriction that peolpe seem to think unbreakable

of course they're breakable, but by professional, learned musicians they simply arent. they're a no-no. if you want to go form a garage band doing just that, then good luck to you, you shouldnt get too far because people just wont listen to. chord progressions, keys, scales. a man called young did an experiment a few hundred years ago where he diffracted light. you can do the exact same with sound, and it will show you that frequencies and wavelengths of energy movements dictate their nature and the orders into which they will fit. a schoolbook called physics today by randal henly will explain all this concisely to you in three or four pages. believe it or not, and i can only presume you wont, because that's just you, but sound is an energy form (!!!) and is made up of tiny little waves. those waves are recreated in guitar strings and john frusciante should know that.
ever see the lyric board? or whatever that **** show is? why do they say "such and such a song, in C" before they play it?
case closed

Phil_321

upmeath wrote:

you dont cross scales in a song. if you've learned any instrument or studied leaving cert physics this crap will have been drilled into you, and that's been done for a reason.

What exactly are you saying Frusciante does? Are you saying he goes completely out of key in a song or does he sometimes throw in a few notes outside a particular scale that he is playing over a song?

funky penguin

upmeath wrote:

of course they're breakable, but by professional, learned musicians they simply arent. they're a no-no. if you want to go form a garage band doing just that, then good luck to you, you shouldnt get too far because people just wont listen to. chord progressions, keys, scales. a man called young did an experiment a few hundred years ago where he diffracted light. you can do the exact same with sound, and it will show you that frequencies and wavelengths of energy movements dictate their nature and the orders into which they will fit. a schoolbook called physics today by randal henly will explain all this concisely to you in three or four pages. believe it or not, and i can only presume you wont, because that's just you, but sound is an energy form (!!!) and is made up of tiny little waves. those waves are recreated in guitar strings and john frusciante should know that.
ever see the lyric board? or whatever that **** show is? why do they say "such and such a song, in C" before they play it?
case closed

Its obvious we are starting to repeat ourselves, and if we continue it will become more obvious that this is a spiritual v science debate masked by the music of john frusciante. (isnt that amazing?)

So, I will cease my arguement, and respect your view. (Although I hope you appretiate how hard it is for me to agree with it!)

I'm not a science man. I understand what you have said, but I find that mere words are not enough. I do like music though

By the way, I play drums, bass, piano and sing, and therefore know about keys, chord proggressions and scales. I just ignore them now im outta school.

curtains

^ this is why is finished my part in this debate a while ago

I will however give you John Frusciante's view on the matter:

Quote: "I think people should learn all the theory there is so that they can break the rules with finesse".

upmeath

Phil_321 wrote:

What exactly are you saying Frusciante does? Are you saying he goes completely out of key in a song or does he sometimes throw in a few notes outside a particular scale that he is playing over a song?

I'm saying his live improvisations can go screw themselves, because they're screwed as things are. Nobody goes to see Led Zeppelin play and expect to hear anything other than the real Stairway, and if you have confidence enough to write music you should sure as hell have confidence enough to recreate it live, maybe even toy with it in a suitable manner as queens do. I'm not speaking solely from my own point of view here, I've gone to three of their gigs with fairly accomplished guitaring friends who live for the blues, hendrix and zeppelin, and are dismayed to hear his improvisations. they simply dont do anything for us.

Phil_321

Well I don't know about his live playing but I do know that I don't like any of his guitar work since he rejoined the band. He seems to have taken the less is more idea to the extreme and all his licks, melodies, etc... are very basic, slow and dull. I know from the earlier stuff that the dude has the ability to play with a more exciting style, so I don't know what caused him to take this direction.

funky penguin

He says its due to fear of becoming stale.

Pete Doherty

upmeath wrote:

the point? they're money-grabbers, they'll never do a show in ireland to less than 100,000 again. look at the last three summers:
Lansdowne Road, June 2002, 40,000
Slane Castle, August 2003, 80,000
Phoenix Park, June 2004, 120,000
Where next? The Curragh to 500,000?

CHILIS NEED YOUR MONEY!!!! MOO HAW HAW HAW!!! ALL YOUR MONEY!!!

they`ve been around for 20 ****in years. john does solo albums with absolutley NO advertising or high chart entrys for them, coz he doesnt need money. and the rest get **** loads of cash from touring the WORLD! and, they also do the occasional free gig. now i have to say they are THE HARDEST WORKING BAND IN THE WORLD!!!! **** Megadeth U2 mettalica and the rest

CHILI`S RULE!!!!!!!!!

BTW a band that big SHOULD play in huge places. and even at that Chad played in the SFX last year! SFX? barley 150 people there, it was great though, i loved it.

Sandals

Any news on a new album?

funky penguin

All I heard is that it's supposed to be a lot heavier than By The Way.

curtains

It's finished apparently. Rumour is that it will have an october release. They've played two songs form it live, 21st Century and Ready Made, I'm not a big fan of the singing but they're great, very old skool-ish but mroe rocking. The bass has a rage against the machine vibe.

Ooly

ooooh heavier chili's . . . .sounds very very good.

Any1 else a big John Frusciante fan? Love the solo albums....LEGEND

Ooly

Can u actually imagine trying to pack all the irish chili's fans into the point????? CRAZY

The Dump

Yes so it is now announced Stadium Arcadia is on it's way, watch friday night with Johnny Ross for them playng their new single right now, (well in ten minutes anyway)