3% Support & a lot of power

Villain

If we are to take the recent polls at face value, it would appear the Progressive Democrats currently have 3% support.

The PD's currently have

2 Minsters:
Tanaiste Mary Harney,Tanaiste and Minister for Health and Children
Minister Michael McDowell, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform

2 Junior Ministers:
Minister Tim O'Malley,Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children
Minister Tom Parlon,Minister of State at the Department of Finance

4 TD's:Liz O'Donnell, Fiona O'Malley, Noel Grealish and Mae Sexton.

I believe they have far too much power for a party so small, the Justice and Health Departments are 2 of the most vital posts in the government and they are currently been run by a party that has 3% support!

IMO Bertie Ahern is so desperate to keep the PD's onside that he has allowed them far too much of a say in the running of this state.

Roisin Dubh

irish1 wrote:

If we are to take the recent polls at face value, it would appear the Progressive Democrats currently have 3% support.

The PD's currently have



I believe they have far too much power for a party so small, the Justice and Health Departments are 2 of the most vital posts in the government and they are currently been run by a party that has 3% support!

IMO Bertie Ahern is so desperate to keep the PD's onside that he has allowed them far too much of a say in the running of this state.

Well the polls in 2002 predicted they would only get 2% and they doubled there seats and got 4%.

So maybe they have more support than you think. They also got loads of transfers from FG supporters.

I think after so long with those departments tending to be under the control of the 2 big parties, its time to give a small party a chance to see if it can succeed with others have failed.

Anyway, I feel that they have already made some good decisions, like the Citizenship Referendum - the outcome of which clearly demonstrates that a lot of people feel strongly on it and far more wanted it passed than wanted it defeated.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

I believe they have far too much power for a party so small, the Justice and Health Departments are 2 of the most vital posts in the government and they are currently been run by a party that has 3% support!

IMO Bertie Ahern is so desperate to keep the PD's onside that he has allowed them far too much of a say in the running of this state.

In fairness Roisin is right.
The pd's get transfers, Sinn Féin on the whole don't.
So therefore it's reasonable to suggest that their support base or to phrase it more accurately their acceptability base is bigger than that 3% suggests.

You've got to factor in aswell that their support is concentrated in the constituencies where their T.D's are elected much like Sinn Féin actually.
Here in Wicklow for instance,I doubt the Pd's would have 1% of the vote and neither would SF but I'm not running around drawing conclusions from that, that both don't have a fair bit of support as represented by their number of T.D's elsewhere.

Slutmonkey57b

It's always been a feature of the proportional representation system that small parties end up wielding large power without any real mandate from the people.

I used to be strongly against the PR system as a whole but in latter years I've gotten used to it. I don't like it as a possibility that SF could end up in power at some point, but equally it forces Irish parties to sometimes carry less of an extreme party rhetoric than a first-past the post system allows (I'm thinking of the painfully cancerous transformation of New Labour here)

If alything it tends to lead to a more centrist approach as the parites have to maintain some political cohesion to keep a coalition afloat, and that can only be a good thing for liberals.

Captain Trips

irish1 wrote:

If we are to take the recent polls at face value, it would appear the Progressive Democrats currently have 3% support.

The PD's currently have



I believe they have far too much power for a party so small, the Justice and Health Departments are 2 of the most vital posts in the government and they are currently been run by a party that has 3% support!

IMO Bertie Ahern is so desperate to keep the PD's onside that he has allowed them far too much of a say in the running of this state.

The major source of the problem is Mary Harney, who has been consistently inadequate for the roles she is given. She is not a stateperson and has produced little in the way of progress.

That said, I support the PDs if it wasn't for knowing that she has been show incompetent time and time again.

Roisin Dubh

Captain Trips wrote:

The major source of the problem is Mary Harney, who has been consistently inadequate for the roles she is given. She is not a stateperson and has produced little in the way of progress.

That said, I support the PDs if it wasn't for knowing that she has been show incompetent time and time again.

How has she been inadequate in all her roles? Remember she banned smokey coal in the 1980's, helping rid Dublin of smog

Also, she is unlucky to be in the Health Dept. at a time when the failings of 14 previous governments are coming home to roost. You seem to be blaming her for the actions of 14 previous Health-Ministers. That doesn't sound fair to me :mad:

Sleepy

It's a bit rich for an IRA apologist and Sinn Fein supporter to talk about lack of mandate tbh.

gom

Roisin Dubh wrote:

Also, she is unlucky to be in the Health Dept. at a time when the failings of 14 previous governments are coming home to roost. You seem to be blaming her for the actions of 14 previous Health-Ministers. That doesn't sound fair to me :mad:

Come on, she wanted the Health portfolio and it was widely speculated for months before the reshuffle that she wanted Foreign affairs but knew the realities and was open to health.

Harney wants to get lucky in the Dept for Health & Children. If any problems arise she blames Michéal Martin. By the next general if the HSE and the Health system in general gets sorted somewhat better than it is now she will get the credit for things already set in motion before her and end up being able to hold on to her post as PD leader. Michael McDowell is hammering at her door and was successful in getting President of the PDs under his belt. After the next general I can see the PDs getting a good bit of Young PD fanaticism in them under the leadership of McDowell. Bertie's eagerness to get as many options open as possible for coalition partners(SF before Xmas, Labour and maybe a minority gov)...

Villain

Sleepy wrote:

It's a bit rich for an IRA apologist and Sinn Fein supporter to talk about lack of mandate tbh.

I am NOT an IRA apologist and I would like you to retract that accusation.

Why is it when a discussion about FF or the PD's comes up and I post people have to mention Sinn Fein or the IRA, I have voted for Sinn Fein and support them, but that doesn't have anything to do with this thread.

If the current issues facing the current government got as much attention as Sinn Fein we might actually get somewhere.

I mean since 1978 11 governments 40 health boards have ignored legal advice and allowed between half a billion and 2 billion Euro to be taken illegally. Now the person who has to deal with this issue is the leader of a party that has an estimated support of 3%!!

Sleepy if you want to actually discuss the topic at hand I will be happy to do so, but I will not discuss Sinn Fein or the IRA in this thread, there are many many threads for that.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

If we are to take the recent polls at face value, it would appear the Progressive Democrats currently have 3% support.

The PDs have helped to build up the economy and brought us lower taxes.

The PDs have many achievements - even exposing the likes SF/IRA.


They have done this country some service.

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

Sleepy if you want to actually discuss the topic at hand I will be happy to do so,

But you don't seem to be happy to do so at all...
Your only contribution to this thread in the last 24 hrs is your opening post despite many pertinent points being made.
You clearly don't want to discusss this at all, it looks like you just put it up here as a soapbox rant.
You only came back to it now because sinn Féin were mentioned, suggesting also , your soap box is a front for distractions from the current topical sinn Féin problems as much as anything else.

Very see through...

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

But you don't seem to be happy to do so at all...
Your only contribution to this thread in the last 24 hrs is your opening post despite many pertinent points being made.
You clearly don't want to discusss this at all, it looks like you just put it up here as a soapbox rant.
You only came back to it now because sinn Féin were mentioned, suggesting also , your soap box is a front for distractions from the current topical sinn Féin problems as much as anything else.

Very see through...

As where your contribution is??

There is far more issues at the moment than SF's problems, 2 billions euros of tax payers money to be paid out because of the theft of 11 governments, then you have over 200 people waiting on trolleys in our hospitals, a former Minister for Justice in jail, only a few years after been appointed as a Minister by the current Taoiseach.

Then you have a Minister for Justice who claims leaders of a Political party are breaking the law by been leading members of an illegal organisation, but Taoiseach doesn't agree.

The PD's have far too much of a say given their low support.

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

As where your contribution is??

HaHa,I didnt start this thread, you did,I have been reading it and saw no need to discuss it as I wasnt interested in the central topic .
You can add all the little issues you like now, but you haven't even discussed the points others raised here by the other posters and yet you claim to want to have a discussion.
From reading it though and seeing your second post 24 hours after opening the thread,I found it laughable that you claim to want to discuss this topic at all when you have ignored it untill now.
Even your third reply just now doesnt discuss what others have raised further exposing your lack of willingness to discuss this subject but have a rant instead.

As I say very see through and exposed

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

HaHa,I didnt start this thread, you did,I have been reading it and saw no need to discuss it as I wasnt interested in the central topic .
You can add all the little issues you like now, but you haven't even discussed the points others raised here by the other posters and yet you claim to want to have a discussion.
From reading it though and seeing your second post 24 hours after opening the thread,I found it laughable that you claim to want to discuss this topic at all when you have ignored it untill now.
Even your third reply just now doesnt discuss what others have raised further exposing your lack of willingness to discuss this subject but have a rant instead.

As I say very see through and exposed

What rule states that if you start a thread you have to reply to every post???

I started the thread to see what peolple's opinions are. I don't see why I have to reply every couple of hours as I said in the other thread I have been discussing politics a lot here lately while you weren't posting at all, so I think its a bit rich for you criticize my lack of discussion.

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

What rule states that if you start a thread you have to reply to every post???

Well if you want to be nit picky...

Please remeber that we are neither a news channel nor an announcement forum - if you are not willing to discuss what you post, then please don't post it.

from here entitled starting threads in the charter.
I've clearly exposed that you started a thread, discussed nothing in it for 24 hours whilst replying else where on a subject you often say you wish was discussed less and only started replying here when Sinn Féin was mentioned.
Black and white open and shut case of soap boxing

Now I didnt drag this off topic ,I'm merely contesting both the apparent purpose of this thread and your lack of willingness to discuss anything at all in here and I'm making this comment on the heels of you asserting that you did want to discuss this topic when clearly you dont.

A valid point-that is all

I don't see why I have to reply every couple of hours as I said in the other thread I have been discussing politics a lot here lately while you weren't posting at all, so I think its a bit rich for you criticize my lack of discussion.

But you didnt discuss anything related to this topic at all, nor debate with the other people that posted here, thats obvious, cut and dry, black and white. I'm pointing it out to you.I've never insulted anyone yet here nor do I intend to, but I will pass a valid comment when I think its necessary and you can be guaranteed,I'll try to back up my comment rather than insult anyone.
I'm not saying you are insulting me by the way,I'll just add that you saying me pointing out what I have pointed out to you is rich, is irrelevant, my history of reading or posting here is nothing to do with this thread.

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

Well if you want to be nit picky...
from here entitled starting threads in the charter.
I've clearly exposed that you started a thread, discussed nothing in it for 24 hours whilst replying else where on a subject you often say you wish was discussed less and only started replying here when Sinn Féin was mentioned.
Black and white open and shut case of soap boxing

Who said I'm not willing to discuss what I posted?? I'm sure you'll find I have started several threads in the past and not posted again for more a day or two.

Rock Climber wrote:

Now I didnt drag this off topic ,I'm merely contesting both the apparent purpose of this thread and your lack of willingness to discuss anything at all in here and I'm making this comment on the heels of you asserting that you did want to discuss this topic when clearly you dont.

A valid point-that is all

You have posted 3 times and not discussed the topic of the thread once??

Rock Climber wrote:

But you didnt discuss anything related to this topic at all, nor debate with the other people that posted here, thats obvious, cut and dry, black and white. I'm pointing it out to you.I've never insulted anyone yet here nor do I intend to, but I will pass a valid comment when I think its necessary and you can be guaranteed,I'll try to back up my comment rather than insult anyone.
I'm not saying you are insulting me by the way,I'll just add that you saying me pointing out what I have pointed out to you is rich, is irrelevant, my history of reading or posting here is nothing to do with this thread.

I think it does,
From the last 5 Threads you started in the Politics Forum you never posted again in 3 of them:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=168505 and
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=163013 and http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=159321

and in you didn't reply for 2 days in http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=202169

:eek: :rolleyes:

Stones - Glasshouse anyone??

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

I think it does,
From the last 5 Threads you started in the Politics Forum you never posted again in 3 of them:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=168505 and
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=163013 and http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=159321

and in you didn't reply for 2 days in http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=202169

:eek: :rolleyes:

Stones - Glasshouse anyone??

heh-you picked a thread that died and threads that I couldnt come back to because I wasnt on line or busy...

This thread wasnt dead, it was a discussion and you stated you were happy to discuss its topic but showed no evedence of discussing it-even though you were here
And meanwhile I point out this out to you and you complain that I'm off topic because twice I've nailed you for what this thread appears to be... and I'm only replying to your questions after my initial comment to something you posted here which was off topic.
When you seem to have no answer to the comment you do some poor detective work turning up spurious results.
I mean surely a discussion in a thread is where you reply to the other posts.
Your detective work is interesting(as now I've a had a good old reminiss of my time here on boards.ie-gee thanks ) but rather desperate.

gandalf

FFS all I see is people bickering like children on every thread on politics. Grow up the lot of you.

BTW as far as I am concerned the PD's are FF, they should rejoin the party they split from in the first place.

And Irish1 do not insult my intelligence with your reasons for starting this thread, even to the dogs in the street it is obvious.

Villain

gandalf wrote:

FFS all I see is people bickering like children on every thread on politics. Grow up the lot of you.

I couldn't agree more

gandalf wrote:

BTW as far as I am concerned the PD's are FF, they should rejoin the party they split from in the first place.

Interesting idea, but not likely

gandalf wrote:

And Irish1 do not insult my intelligence with your reasons for starting this thread, even to the dogs in the street it is obvious.

Would I ever insult you Gandalf??

As for the dogs in the street, well I never really was a pet lover

I was discussing this topic with a few mates over a few pints the other night (none of them support SF BTW) and they believed Mary Harney was the main reason why the Bertie Bowl didn't go ahead and thats why the Irish Soccer and Rugby teams could be forced to play their home games in the UK if the GAA don't open Croke Park. So when you consider her party has so little support they certainly seem to have a big say.