M3 Motorway

marco murphy

I have to say,most protesters against this are not even from tara.
Are you for or against?

emaherx

a large percentage of people belive the m3 is going to run straight through the centre of the hill of tara. but the fact is the m3 is going to be further away from the hill of tara than the current n3.

how many people who comute to dublin every day via the n3 are going to object?

marco murphy

emaherx wrote:

a large percentage of people belive the m3 is going to run straight through the centre of the hill of tara. but the fact is the m3 is going to be further away from the hill of tara than the current n3.

how many people who comute to dublin every day via the n3 are going to object?

Exactly

upmeath

the poll question is badly phrased: "do you support the m3?"
of course we all support infrastructural developments, but not at a price to our heritage. i was tempted to write a letter to d'olier street on this one about a month ago but refrained.
i reckon a tunnel should be constructed below the surface, causing no noise pollution, no eyesores, nothing. irish infrastructure is nothing to write home about, we all know that.
in malaga in southern spain a tunnel was built below a moorish castle, 10 years ago, the fort dating from pre christian times. no objection. the nra reckon that the boyne bridge and the west link are masterpieces, testimony to our national wealth. not a bit.
tunnels are the way forward. they keep everyone happy, conserving green belts yet allowing for cheap, efficient, direct road and rail links.

utopian

emaherx wrote:

how many people who comute to dublin every day via the n3 are going to object?

How many people who commute from Navan think it'll make a significant difference to their commute time? How many of them are going to use a tolled road?

upmeath

utopian wrote:

How many of them are going to use a tolled road?

exactly.
the only reasons for our crippled infrastructure are illegal practices. to the best of my knowledge, and from reliable industry sources, two EU funding guidelines rule that:
(i) it is illegal to place traffic lights on motorway intersections (ive heard this from a number of civil engineers) if true, it means that the n2-m50 intersection in north finglas, the n3-m50 intersection at blanchardstown and the n7-m50 intersection at the red cow roundabout are all illegal junctions. they should be free-flowing with no light sequences. of course our rocket scientists dont understand how such large volumes of traffic could flow without mayhem. look at the arc de triomphe, look at every plaza in london, no lights!
(ii) it is illegal to toll roads which were built with EU funding, or to lease out toll booths as is the most common practice here. that means that a man should be allowed to drive a truck from bray to dublin airport and back without paying four euro or whatever it is on top of the duty he pays on fuel and his wages.

cournioni

I am totally for it. It can only help what is becoming a severely congested and dangerous road to drive on. It is just as busy now as the old N1 was before the M1 was opened.

I can't see how the Hill of Tara is even an issue here. It is clear that the N3 as it is, is closer to Tara than the M3 will be. Meath and even Cavan needs this road, it will lead to the development of both counties.

upmeath

it will drain money from both counties. it will make blanchardstown sc all the more accessible on a sunday so the developing urban centres of navan, trim, kells and cavan will all suffer

woolymammoth

For it completely. It's being planned around historical sites, not on top of them as a lot of people think, so we're preserving our heritage. Plus we're in 2005, not 1005. Progress must go on.

upmeath

woolymammoth wrote:

Progress must go on.

Is progress not going on itself?

cournioni

Not with sub standard, dangerous two way National Primary Roads it isn't IMO.

I don't think it will drain from either counties at all. I can't see why Blanchardstown should be held in any higher regard than the Shopping Centre in Navan or any of the retail places in Cavan town.

Silverfish

Totally against, but mainly because they're cutting down the woods behind my house to build it, and there'll be a flyover beside the house, so we'll have a motorway on both sides of the house, which is now surrounded by protected woodlands.
Lovely. Can't fúcking wait. :mad:

Tara is just part of the historical sites around the area that are being affected by this, but since its the most well known its the one that gets the publicity.

$lash

I'm very much for the M3 ... The N3 is simply not capable of bearing the amount of traffic it experiences currently...


I cannot honestly appreciate the argument against it - whilst I understand the concerns of the impact it may have on Tara, the reality is the M3 will be further away from the heritage site than the existing road.

gerrydublin

Poblachtach wrote:

I have to say,most protesters against this are not even from tara.
Are you for or against?

I made up my mind after looking at this map,
note in particular the location of the existing N3 and where the proposed M3 will go with respect to the hill of tara.

http://www.taraskryne.org/map1.html

Then it all became clear!

What do you mean they are not going any closer to the Hill of Tara than they are currently :eek:

jack shictt

Nobody will ever agree plain and simple, the people who live near the n3 will love the move because thell be futher away, while the people that will now be living near the m3 will object becuase there closer to it. take from one give the other no ones happy. Most of the people who object are tree huggers and bunny lovers (no offense i lovenature as much as the next man) but they take things to sriously, thed prefer to live with rabbits than people (i can see the point on the sexual side but thats about it). No body will ever be happy. ever becuase people will never be happy. i hate vegans ( no offense but the human specices are omnivores) if u eat nuts and berries withtoit supplements u DIE.

yes i support the m3, as long as they get it right and dont turn round next year and go opps we got it wrong this new road would be better. bloody council

BaronGreenBack

upmeath wrote:

it will drain money from both counties. it will make blanchardstown sc all the more accessible on a sunday so the developing urban centres of navan, trim, kells and cavan will all suffer

That sounds like protectionism ranting by local businesses afraid of competition.
Business in the towns you mentioned will have to meet the needs of the people in the area. Trim for example is badly in need of competition. The effort that was needed to get Lidl into the town was unbelievable. When it was opened I was in the local Super-valu, who had a grip on the town for years, announcing over the PA "shop at super-valu Trim, remember we're Irish" :rolleyes:
Trim lacks so much that one is forced to go to Navan or Blanch to get the goods/services.

The logic that all will flea to Blanch SC is complete BS. Once again taking Trim, I dont think people will be using the M3, the R154 services Trim to the Blackbull. And people have been going to Blanch to shop instead of Trim for some time now, without the M3. If the local businesses had their way no one would be allowed leave the towns and have to spend all their money locally regardless of value for money. If anything it will help towns in the area by bringing much needed infrastructure.

The M3 is a good thing, its needed for all the reason mentioned in this thread but the tolling is an absolute disgrace. Favours and stealth taxes.

woolymammoth

BaronGreenBack wrote:

If anything it will help towns in the area by bringing
much needed infrastructure.

thats another thing i forgot to mention. good roads means better transportation
for manufacturers. industries looks at how good a road network to a town is
when they're deciding to locate.

this motorway will be a win win situation for Navan & Cavan, especially Cavan.
With the colloge expanding & the growing population, a solid road link to dublin
will make it a more attractive place for industry to locate.

*Angel*

woolymammoth wrote:

For it completely. It's being planned around historical sites, not on top of them as a lot of people think, so we're preserving our heritage. Plus we're in 2005, not 1005. Progress must go on.

In total agreement.

Big Nelly

I agree with it.....you have the usual eco heads with no job and on the dole crying about it.....get a job will you!.....and as usual they dont have a clue wat the road is about or looked at the plans.....just like to cry about something......next they will be up the trees threating not to come down....if it was me I would cut them down anyway! lol.........TIMBER

I travel from Cavan to Dublin on a regular basis(at least twice weekly) and the N3 is a disaster!! seriously over crowded....always traffic on it when I travel either at 2 at nite or 6 in the morning......also will bring extra companies and business to Cavan/Kells/Navan.....see how much Cavan and Virginia has built up in the last while with the promise of this motorway.....even bloody Argos are opening in Cavan

Point made above that it will bring away business from the local shops to Blanch is way off the point....God man I live in Blanch and for 2 months before Xmas I wont go near the shopping centre or move out of the house anywhere near Blanch village/shopping centre area with people up from Cavan-Navan at Blanch Shopping centre!!! its a joke.....if the road way is put in more shops like Argos will open in Cavan/Navan bringing extra business and jobs to the area.....cant complain about that!!! also Sunday are mental at shopping centre all year through......

F Fiesta

Totally against it.

Feel sorry for people like Silverfish. I'd like to know where this notion of people thinking that it goes through the actual hill came from? Of course no one thinks like this, pure rubbish. The fact that Tara and the surrounding area is a great historical site should be enough to dismantle the proposal.

F Fiesta

Plus we're in 2005, not 1005

Such a silly statement, but wouldn't expect anymore.

Let's forget about our culture shall we?

gerrydublin

Big Nelly wrote:

....God man I live in Blanch and for 2 months before Xmas I wont go near the shopping centre or move out of the house anywhere near Blanch village/shopping centre area with people up from Cavan-Navan at Blanch Shopping centre!!! its a joke........

I hate to seem like one of these pro-public transport and anti-private transport guys, but I think the Blanch shopping centre must go down as one of the worse planning decision, apart from Clonee that is, because of the transport links.
Why did local councillors approve a shopping centre & retail centres on that magnitute when they never demanded the developer to build a rail spur off the Maynooth rail line to the centre nor did the developer have to build bus lanes in around the centre.
But as bad as things were, local councillors in recent years actually approved more residential development on these feeder roads!
Where am I going with this, well if you consider that as Big Nelly said many people drive to this shopping centre from Navan/Cavan because of the lack of public transport to it, then local government have to improve the roads to it and indeed to work in Dublin city. The reason they have to do this is because they owe it to the people after making the initial cock-up in granting planning permisison in this area in the first place.
Will the M3 solve the problem? No it will make things worse. More people will now move to Navan and Cavan because of this good road, and in a few years, the roads will be blocked again from Blanch to Cabra.
But it looks like this government only ever care about when the next election is, so the M3 will get them past the next election, and by 2012 when the next election is due, they can come up with a plan to widen the M3, and again in 2017.

karltimber

I am currently in the US -Oregon for a short stint and we have a small SINGLE track (doubles at stations of course)rail-line beside the apts here - a train evey 5-10mins into town which is 15 mins away but also goes futher out.
Its absolutely fantastic.

It baffles me how Ireland can only have a road vision !!!!
Have they not looked at every other country in the EU - germany has a fantastic rail network direct into every city.

Building another motorway to converge on single lane traffic after blanch is just hilarious- do the planners not have a big enough table for the lego model!!!

They should have bought the pheonix Park race-course (instead of the concrete lego apts they are putting up) and made it a station for a new rail line from Dun,navan,cavan plus a park and ride --all linked by a luas into the ctiy centre !!!


roads roads -- what a waste of time and money !!!!!!

Now I feel better.

karl.

LoneGunM@n

I'm a blow in to Navan [from Dublin & commute to work in Dublin daily], so I'm sure my vote is vetoed based on the fact that I'm not from Meath but here goes anyway!

I voted yes, based on the promise of decreased travelling times to & from Dublin everyday ... but in hindsight, the N3 isn't the problem ... unless the problem with traffic on the Blanchardstown bypass is sorted out, it's just going to mean we are arriving in traffic earlier, but traffic none-the-less!!

In relation to legality of toll roads ... all it takes to get around the European directive [i.e. no tolls on european funded roads], is to break the road up into portions for building purposes, so that the privately funded "sections" can be tolled!!

I heard talk that there will be 2 tolls on the M3 ... that'll mean 6 tolls for me per day, which will put me on the bus quick smart - which I suppose is the purpose anyway :rolleyes:

A1

Poblachtach wrote:

I have to say,most protesters against this are not even from tara.
Are you for or against?

I live in Navan.

The current route is 3.5km longer than an alternative route to the west, and E60m more expensive.

I want an M3 - nobody is against the M3, or rather very few.

E60m wasted is alot

skywalker_208

I voted for... im sure the people that voted against are lucky enough to find employment in the local area... the fact is most cant and have to travel to Dublin every day.. Public transport is overcrowded, unreliable and over priced.. People dont want to spend 3 - 4 hours per day sitting in their cars.. but they have to.....

Meath and Cavan need this motorway (although i would prefer a train line or even a park and ride facility as mentioned by karltimber)

luckat

http://www.unison.ie/meath_chronicle/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1536410&issue_id=13500

Interesting review of a book about the landscape of Ireland. A quote:

---

Significance of mythical Tara and its legends well explored
ADVERTISEMENT


click here to enlarge

Book review

‘The Kingship and Landscape of Tara’ (edited by Edel Bhreathnach, published by Four Courts Press for the Discovery Programme, price s50)

A DECADE ago, a leading critic described the Irish as being surrounded by the richest landscape, which they were incapable of “reading”. He referred not just to our monuments, but place names (the anglicised mutilation of Irish, that is) which most of us never scrutinise.

So, too, can the landscape of Tara seem a tremendous blank to visitors - and uninformed locals. The presence only of the phallic Lia Fáil, some ringed earthworks, and a forgettable former church (the visitors centre) lets down many visitors.

(snip - the whole piece is interesting, though)

D'Peoples Voice

Any news on when the commencement date for this road is?

You have to hand it to Tara Watch, they have been very successful in delaying this project to date.

Should they hold out another 12 weeks, a change of government (with the Green party elected) might see this road project dropped in favour of building a spur from the N2 (at Slane) to the N3 (Cavan town and beyond).
http://tarawatch.org/?m=200702

emaherx

They have already started clearing the route.

This road will be built.
And the greens wont come to power.

This road is needed, it dosen't go through Tara and over 80% of the population of Meath want it.

You have to hand it to Tara Watch for wasting time and tax payers money.

johannson

The greens wont come to power eh??? How many of the N3 commuters have actually spent a summers evening or morning on the hill of Tara and taken in the majestic view of the surrounding countryside. I would imagine not many considering most of the time is spent in congested traffic trying to get to places of work in the capitol city. Please remember Tara was once the capitol of Ireland, and is of significant historical importance.
Although the road does not run through Tara and the site will not be affected by the development, I have this image in my mind of Tourists being herded up to the hill of Tara, not to gaze upon our ancestors place of power but to view our modern civil engineering achievements. Then we can remove that misrepresentation of St. Patrick which is situated on the walkway to the hill of Tara and replace it with a statue to our great leader Bertie Ahern

Archeron

A1 wrote:

I live in Navan.

The current route is 3.5km longer than an alternative route to the west, and E60m more expensive.

I want an M3 - nobody is against the M3, or rather very few.

E60m wasted is alot

A1, what the heck is that website Tarasos.com supposed to be? Due to the nature of this discussion, I expected a site giving info on the topic, but it looks like a discount hotel website. Am i missing something?

To be honest, I'm for the motorway, but I would like to see it done in such a way that the landscape is not scarred. I stopped to speak over the weekend with a guy in Navan who was outside the shopping centre in a trailer with "save Tara" posters everywhere. I had a brief chat and to be brutally honest, I was not impressed with what he said to me, as most of it seemed to be hearsay, presumption, and plans based on the fact that "he grew up in this land and knows it better than anyone". Sorry, but unless you actually have experience in civil engineering projects, its difficult to take what you are proposing 100% seriously. (dont get me wrong, everyone has their opinion, but I cannot swallow a proposal like that below from someone who cannot give any reason why they are stating the figures that they are)

A new routed motorway going near Trim, a train line to Navan with park and ride near fairyhouse, and a backup electric rail line at Rathoate, all for less than the cost of the proposed route sounds good, but I'm afraid it will take a little bit more than a few maps stapled to the wall with colored lines on them to convince me that this is a valid argument. And the fact that you told me you were able to plan this all out and propose budgets because you've walked the route more than anyone else in Ireland is frankly ludicrous. The fact that you have a stereo blasting out really weird music will not exactly enamour you to passers by either, as most will think you are a nut. (sorry, I dont know quite what group this guy represented)

I love Irelands heritage and would do my utmost to protect it. Sadly, I dont think the Tarawatch people have handled this in the proper way, and most people would be quite p*ssed off at how much time and money has been wasted so far on this. Tell us the alternative, give us viable solutions, and then people may listen, but speaking purely as an outsider looking in at this argument, this does not appear to be what happened. Maybe I'm wrong, but purely my thoughts on it.