Quote for Front Porch

kadman

Macy wrote:

Because people are ripped off, and when they get a quote that's more than they thought they automatically ask around. Don't blame the people, blame the cowboys that cause the situation.

I mean we had a quote for our house build, told him he was way over, and he was able to knock €40k off straight away with no explaination (still not enough to match who we got, and the spec was better with who went with too!). He'd still be making a profit on the price he gave, but 40k less than he would've of if I'd been a mug and brought his sales patter or just simply not known enough to see that his spec wasn't as good.

Personally, I think that's a lot for what it is, and what it could be used for...

Yes people are ripped, and no I don't agree with it either. But not all quotes should automatically be regarded as rip offs.

As you say, you should always shop around for various quotes. You would be foolish to accept one quote. Agreed.

What worrys me is your statement, " when they get a quote thats more than they thought ", that presuppose s that people know what their house build should cost before they look for a quote. All very well if they have the knowledge to arrive at that figure. Where do they get that initial figure from, if not from the first quote.

I think possibly people are paranoid about getting ripped off, that they convince them selves of this from the outset. Look back through all this thread, virtually all opinions regading costs of this build from , are its too high, it should cost half that. I assume these views are from people who have little or no experience in building construction, and there fore are not experienced enough to cost it. But prove me wrong .
Please correct me If I am wrong, I would welcome a professional to state that a contractor could do this for 5k, and prove how .

I've asked throughout this thread, that any one that thinks this can be done by a contractor for 5k, set out a bill of quantities and all costs and post them here. You are not the only one to think it should be cheaper, so post your costs, for all to see. And dont forget to cost from a contractors point of view, not self build. No use shouting from the rooftops , its too dear. Put your costs and we'll see.

kadman

Macy

Not arguing over the costs of this project, more the general questioning of quotes. I think it's a good thing that people don't blindly go with one quote. To me, uneducated as I am, even €5k sounds alot for a porch. Doesn't mean I'm right, but it's a lot more than I would ever think it would be. More value for money for the floor area gained rather than whether the spec of the build tbh - that's what I was getting at with my last comment. It may look nice, but you'd be well on the way to hobby room in the back garden for that kind of money which imo would be more use (just my opinion - up to whoever is stumping up the readies).

I'm going with a builder, not direct labour, because I know I haven't the time or the expertise to do it direct labour (and if you haven't I believe you are putting yourself in the position of costing more in the end). However, I do know enough to compare tenders, which is what I did.

kadman

[QUOTE=Macy

I'm going with a builder, not direct labour, because I know I haven't the time or the expertise to do it direct labour (and if you haven't I believe you are putting yourself in the position of costing more in the end). However, I do know enough to compare tenders, which is what I did.[/QUOTE]

Well I do agree with you that if it has to be properly managed from the out set.

Well if you have tender preperation experience, then it would be no problem to you to cost this from a contractors prospective. I still maintain that a contractor could not do this for 5k. But I'd like someone to prove me wrong.

And your probably the best qualified so far to do that , hows about it then.

kadman

rooferPete

Hi Macy,

I agree with you, anyone who can drop €40k in a heart beat would not inspire confidence with me.

If on the other hand the contractor acted like a professional and even asked for a second meeting to go through his costs with you, then you become the informed consumer.

At least you get to see how the numbers are arrived at, if contractor "B" can not show you how or where he will save the €40k then common sense and knowledge provide the answers.

I can assure you I am not blind to the dis-respect being shown to the consumer by both sides, those who can do a good job but seem to be building in the deposit on their holiday home, and the other side who are taking a chance in the belief they are going to make a profit based on turnover.

The whole process can be a nightmare if the consumer becomes set in the idea that everyone is out to rob them.

lomb

my experiance is materials cost bugger all. a brick is a euro, and a roll of insulation is a tenner.
the 10 grand would be 3 grand materials absolute max+2grand labour absolute max @200 a day so 10 man days work max+3000+vat

so if u manage it urself it can be done for 5grand.

kadman

lomb wrote:

my experiance is materials cost bugger all. a brick is a euro, and a roll of insulation is a tenner.
the 10 grand would be 3 grand materials absolute max+2grand labour absolute max @200 a day so 10 man days work max+3000+vat

so if u manage it urself it can be done for 5grand.

There you go folks , its official.

Self build = 5k
Contractor= 5k + ins+profit+guarantee+ professional input+quality= More than 5k

Lomb you genius, I bow in the presence of greatness.

lomb

its true! bottom line is if u want it done for u, u will have to pay 3000 to the guy managing it and on top everything including the labour and his profit will be vatted with vat.
if u do it urself, u will avoid the 3grand, the vat on the labour and the vat on the 3grand.

rooferPete

Hi lomb,

Well for materials that cost bugger all please call by any month and pick up my suppliers statements and get them to bugger off

I can assure you the small items are where the money goes, a few bits and pieces that often sit on the passenger seat can clock up 500-00 euro of my customers money.

I would love to have gross profit margin of 30% but then again maybe I'm just too nice to my customers

kadman

Hi Rooferpete,

Maybe you could employ Lomb as your accountant for porch quotes, and boroughmal for your chippy, he has some very interesting stairbuilding techniques.

Some of their posts should come with a government health warning

kadman

DIY Queen

Personally I think €10K is rather excessive. I recently got the following for €16K.
- 4 bed semi house entirely swapped out for double glazing.
- Dining room window knocked out & changed to french doors
- Original back door built up into a window.
- Garage door converted into window (wall built up etc).
- Front porch added on, granted the pillars & roof were already there but they had to build up side wall, install window, new door & lay concrete flooring.

10K sounds way too much for what you want - we had quotes ranging from 15K to 30K for same job so shop around & don't be afraid to haggle either !!

Good luck

samo

Sorry to go off subject but that sounds seriously cheap....Can I ask you where you got your windows from or who supplied them as in the market for french doors, velux windows and regular sized double glazed windows....

Anyone with experience of a good supplier but not astronomical prices...would appreciate the advice and sorry for thread hi-jack

kadman

DIY Queen wrote:

Personally I think €10K is rather excessive. I recently got the following for €16K.
- 4 bed semi house entirely swapped out for double glazing.
- Dining room window knocked out & changed to french doors
- Original back door built up into a window.
- Garage door converted into window (wall built up etc).
- Front porch added on, granted the pillars & roof were already there but they had to build up side wall, install window, new door & lay concrete flooring.

10K sounds way too much for what you want - we had quotes ranging from 15K to 30K for same job so shop around & don't be afraid to haggle either !!

Good luck

So would I be correct in saying you got .
2 French Doors.
New front door.
3 windows

Entire house swapped out for double glazing, was that glass only, or double glazed windows and glass.
How many ,days labour, men.

kadman

rooferPete

Hi Diy Queen,

That looks an amazing bargain, this time last year on my sons first house I fitted,
3 bedrooms,
bathroom,
sitting room
built up kitchen door / window and fitted a wide window.
opened a new kitchen door with side glazing.
New porch with tiled roof ( dang I better fit the gutters )
New front door centered between two side panels.

This was a no time sheet job, materials removed my stores at no cost, no equipment hire charges etc.

Cost about €16,000.00 and believe me I didn't draw the cost of a tank of diesel for my van.

Also the outlay to trades were at a minimum even for the one's I didn't blackmail or call in favours owed from

DIY Queen

To Kadman

Yes Kadman you're right but I think you're missing the point that we had two walls built up to faciliate new windows & one wall knocked out to install french doors & a porch added, ie. it wasn't just a complete swap out of like for like.

I can't remember the exact amount of days but it was the best part of 10 days. Think there was one guy on his own for the first one building up walls for garage, porch & back door & then the remainder of the time seemed to be two guys on site.

We had about 10 quotes & boy does it pay to shop around & haggle ...

kadman

DIY Queen wrote:

To Kadman

Yes Kadman you're right but I think you're missing the point that we had two walls built up to faciliate new windows & one wall knocked out to install french doors & a porch added, ie. it wasn't just a complete swap out of like for like.

I can't remember the exact amount of days but it was the best part of 10 days. Think there was one guy on his own for the first one building up walls for garage, porch & back door & then the remainder of the time seemed to be two guys on site.

We had about 10 quotes & boy does it pay to shop around & haggle ...

I'd hardly call blocks to window cill height, a wall. And one window knocked out for a door way, major work. You said your self one guy , one day, all walls.

You never said it was a glass only swap, or entire house windows as well.

Given that your labour was similar time, materials may be similar as well if its glass only. I see that both were quoted at 10k. Why should the porch be a lot cheaper. In balance if you had glazing only fitted, or maybe small windows. I think the two jobs are similar.

Did you have all replacement windows, or 3 new windows, and glass for the rest.

kadman

DIY Queen

Hi again,

I was only trying to clarify by stressing it wasn't a pure like for like swap & that there was some building work required.

Yes the entire house was swapped out for double glazing, that's 4 beds, large landing window, bathroom, little loo, big bay window & kitchen. Oh & it also included price of a new composite front door.

All i'm saying is that quote porch seems excessive to me & I'd be shopping around for a better one.

rooferPete

Hi DIY Queen,

By all means shop around and make sure you are happy with the contractor, the materials specified and the guarantee offered, make sure you don't get a "Tail light" guarantee, Yep the job is guaranteed for as long as Y'all can see our tail lights .

I can guarantee you he will get a cheaper price, I would even go so far as to say he can "Save" €5,000.00 on initial outlay no problem.

I noticed you didn't find it strange that a job done with zero to even cover the contractors travelling costs let alone wages, overhead and profit (dirty word).

There are always going to be different contractors and different consumers, I am blessed with the customers I have, they ask for the best available and are willing to pay what it costs.

I meet people who have a five or ten year plan for their home, I meet people who have bought the cheapest in the past and blame the contractor, I also meet the people who ask for a maintenance schedule for the finished work.

As a nasty money grabbing contractor I field my enquiries and eliminate as much as 25% on the phone, of the remainder 25% will not get a quote, estimate or guide cost, I actually close the sale on 50% of the remaining enquiries.

That means I enter contracts with one in every four enquiries, there are contractors who are horrified at those numbers, they are volume sellers who offer practically no back up to the customer.

What I find strange is the number of contractors who spend up to €30,000.00 per year with Golden Pages, honestly I would be sick if I thought I was not able to produce work to a standard where the customer is not happy to recommend me to their family and friends.

I work to a very old saying, "it takes a wealthy customer to buy the cheap job" the reason is obvious to me anyway, a cheap job done twice is always more expensive than a good job done once.

slave1

And a very timely response, just about a year later!

Pocari Sweat

So, how much altogether?

I had a porch to do for a customer and had vague idea on costings, so I did big no, no, and quoted off the top of me head saying it would be about 5,000 yo yos, at a very low price, but told them any usual builder would be 7, 8 or 9,000 yo yos but I would look into it.

They wanted a 6 x 6 foot internal space, which needed an 8 foot by 7 foot raft, all block, one glazed door, one big glazed window on front. Intially flat roof, then a bangor slate pitched roof was suggested and amazingly I said that would be about a grand difference, what with joinery labour, materials, soffit fascia, gutter, two down pipes, none-hipped, plus the slate roof! What was I thinking, just and extra grand. So 6,000 yo yos quoted.

So had a word with a builder I knew, dab hand ground worker, raft layer, blocker, brothers were joiners/roofers.

He said he could knock it up for 2 grand! And off he went, taking his words lightly of course, me still thinking at least 5 to 6 grand.

He laid a 5 foot deep raft! 3 foot of hard core and 2 foot concrete. He has serious digger, so took little time. His blockers came and whipped up walls. He mentioned of course, double glazed door and d. glazed window would be extra on the 2 grand, no worries. - 700 made and fitted for both!

No worries.

So budget 2,700 so far. Roof extra was actually just extra 1,000 on his costings for pitched slate roof, cutting into existing old bangor slate roof.

I forgot to mention this was on old 1934, mass concrete cottage being worked on. The blockers had to hilti all local plaster offf near where new blocking was being fixed to existing house, extras like this.

So builder left it at around 3.7 / 4 grand with new posh slated roof and doors, windows, sealed from the weather, just for me to arrange plaster inside and out, put up slabs inside, run cables for light and switch, double socket, pipes for a radiator. Got plastered up for around 500 euros. Top job from lithuanian maestro.

Around 4.5 to 5 grand now, nearly done, second fix wires, window board, 2 down spouts, 2 gulleys and digging back round house with pipe to soakage to do, that'll be another 500.

What, 5.5 now, plus 3 coats of paint inside and out, fit rad, outside light as well, wireless door bell. So if I have not forgotten out, oh yeh screed internal floor and tile, another 500 for all those bits, labour, farting around.

Right minimum 6k then. Me paid feckin pittance to project manage this extra on to rest of the house, that I nearly never costed me time for and you have one fecking top quality, cheap porch. Should have been 7, 8 or 9 as I said to the client first time round, they got a bargain. Still aint finished yet and I started last november. In Dublin call it 10 to 15k for this style of porch? What de ye think, roughly speaking?

slave1

Mine was 10k inc. the new front door on the inside, everything you see included, from foundations to finished article.
This was the lowest quote I got which made me hesitant, however top class workmanship and nothing to snag at the end.
From doing the foundations to completion was 6 weeks - only measured for the glazing piece after the dwarf wall was completed, left it another week or so before the porcelain tiles went down, no plumbing, argon filled glass, included a bit of chipping away of house pebbledash and plastering inside/out.
Am a DIY man but not this time.

rockdrummer

SHOP AROUND is the moral of this story !