man utd versus AC milian

Aquos76

cheesedude wrote:

No. How the hell was he to know that is the way it would go????

If it happened we got Lyon and lost to them then people would say "if he didn't do that...we would play Bremen instead...."

In other words, there is no point ridiculing what could or could not have been done.

We could not have gotten Lyon. They were in our group

Slash/ED

People say things like that all the time, usually when promoted by the media. I remember some people deluding themselves into thinking Ronaldhino would sign for Chelsea for the same reason. Why the hell anyone would leave Milan for Man U is beyond me, it's laughable, unless Milan wanted to sell him. Which they clearly don't.

LegacyUser

smemon wrote:

hang on a second, ive got evidence to back up a point, your basing yours on opinion. yet im the idiot http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4323221.stm

That is not evidence. the Daily Mail is for people who can not read.

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=260995&CPID=21&CLID=1&lid=&title=Gattuso+denies+United+talk&channel=Premiership

LegacyUser

Leonard wrote:

We could not have gotten Lyon. They were in our group

FFS i was talking hypothetically.

Take the two ****test teams in the CL then. If we got one and lost then people would have said "well if we played the other **** team we woudl have won..."

It is all hypothetical talk...

Headshot

lads its not about if Gattuso wants to come to united or not its about the match between united and AC Milian

which i clap my hands to the excellent performance of Milian

Aquos76

cheesedude wrote:

That is not evidence. the Daily Mail is for people who can not read.

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=260995&CPID=21&CLID=1&lid=&title=Gattuso+denies+United+talk&channel=Premiership

Cheesedude wins I'm afraid. I'd believe sky ahead of the mail and the Sun.

smemon

i never said manu were going to sign gattuso, i said he must be on fergie's list meaning he could be a possible target.

someone asked why he would leave, i said because he hinted he like utd. of course the papers will go to town on these hints but IF gattuso was to go, he has hinted utd would interest him.

thats why he could move to utd. i never said he would, never said he will.

thejollyrodger

The way Milian played was brilliant. As lawerson said, they way Milan are set up is awesome, once they get the 1-0 lead it is almost impossible to break them down.Keeping the ball, even with just 5 yard passes, it looks another league from United. I think 4-4-2 is dead as a dodo.

BTW was Gattuso having a wind up? I think he is noted for that with the Milan fans.

eyerer

Leonard wrote:

Sir Alex, Thank you ver much for all the success over the last 18and a half years, but please step down at the end of this season.

at first i thought you were being idiotic, but having read the rest of the thread, you may have something of a point
he can become somewhat of a houllier, for united

kaimera wrote:

heh. poor Utd performace.

the 'clash' between Ronaldo and Cafe near the end summed it up :: Ronaldo bounces off Cafu trying to act big - Cafe laughs at him, Ronaldo again tried to push him away. muppet.

i loved it when cafu laughed at him, the 'push' by ronaldo had me laughing too
****ing sissy boy

Slash/ED

smemon wrote:

i never said manu were going to sign gattuso, i said he must be on fergie's list meaning he could be a possible target.

He may aswell put Maradona on his list for all the good it will do him then.

mr_angry

I can imagine United fans might be downhearted, but to be honest, I'm not sure where all the optimism came from in the first place. I thought Milan were poorer tonight than they were at Old Trafford where their passing was a lot sharper and quicker. Then again, I suppose its easy to get yourself optimistic about the team you support - even I get the odd moment thinking that Arsenal might beat Bayern 2-0 tomorrow night, even though realistically I know its never gonna happen.

Frankly Milan were by far the better team in both legs. I said at the start of the season that I thought Uniteds midfield wasn't up to the task of winning either the Champions League or the Premiership, and I think that statement still holds today. In past seasons Keane and Scholes would have been capable of dominating the midfield and building pressure on the opposition, but it just isn't there anymore. One or both of them have to be replaced IMO if United are to rebuild the team.

LegacyUser

even I get the odd moment thinking that Arsenal might beat Bayern 2-0 tomorrow night, even though realistically I know its never gonna happen.

I think they will do this. I support Utd.

smemon

Slash/ED wrote:

He may aswell put Maradona on his list for all the good it will do him then.

diego im sure would have done better tonight than van and wayne did, at least he'd be a target man and physical presence upfront

mr_angry

cheesedude wrote:

I think they will do this. I support Utd.

If Arsenal keep a clean sheet and win 2-0 tomorrow night, I will actually cook and eat a pair of my own socks. Maybe a 6-3 win, but not 2-0.

KdjaCL

HMm according to the superb man utd fans in this thread it was 12-0 6 goals caused by fergies tactical mistakes and 1 by silvestre, rooney ronaldo howard etc:

Milan 2 Man utd 0
1st goal rebound 2nd goal superb cross created a superb cross and run by the RIGHT BACK!!

Utd played as good as they are vs the best both teams last 8 read somfin like WWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWLD. Should be fairly happy to lose vs the best and not some ****e PL team.

Pah typical sunshine fans.


kdjac

Slash/ED

No Makaay for Bayern, the most under rated striker in Europe and one of the best imo. Ofc, that's cancled by the return of the most under rated mid fielder and one of the best in Ballack, but Makaay is a huge loss for them.

eyerer

mr_angry wrote:

Keane and Scholes. One or both of them have to be replaced IMO if United are to rebuild the team.

i agree
perhaps giggs also

The Muppet

KdjaC wrote:

HMm according to the superb man utd fans in this thread it was 12-0 6 goals caused by fergies tactical mistakes and 1 by silvestre, rooney ronaldo howard etc:

Milan 2 Man utd 0
1st goal rebound 2nd goal superb cross created a superb cross and run by the RIGHT BACK!!

Utd played as good as they are vs the best both teams last 8 read somfin like WWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWLD. Should be fairly happy to lose vs the best and not some ****e PL team.

Pah typical sunshine fans.


kdjac

Well said that man.

Aquos76

I am no sunshine fan, I have supported Man U since 1980 when I was 4.

BKtje

If Ferguson hadn't fielded a bunch of kids against Fenerbahce they'd have enjoyed a tie against Werder Bremen

I thought that for about 30secs and then i thought. If they loose to Milan then they dont deserve to win it. If we didnt play them this round then maybe we'd have played em next. Either way we probably would have had to beat them.

Aquos76

B-K-DzR wrote:

I thought that for about 30secs and then i thought. If they loose to Milan then they dont deserve to win it. If we didnt play them this round then maybe we'd have played em next. Either way we probably would have had to beat them.

Fair point

talla

Some fair weather/ sunshine fans, some realistic fans who can see past the hype and have been saying it for the last 2 seasons.

KdjaC wrote:

HMm according to the superb man utd fans in this thread it was 12-0 6 goals caused by fergies tactical mistakes and 1 by silvestre, rooney ronaldo howard etc:

Milan 2 Man utd 0
1st goal rebound 2nd goal superb cross created a superb cross and run by the RIGHT BACK!!

Utd played as good as they are vs the best both teams last 8 read somfin like WWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWLD. Should be fairly happy to lose vs the best and not some ****e PL team.

Pah typical sunshine fans.


kdjac

Dewey

I didnt think Ruud should of played tonight. He wasnt sharpe enough to play tonight just as he wasnt against Palace. I know he has a great record but you cant expect for him to deliver after 3 months out in such a big game. I would of had Smith and Rooney up front.

And why was Fortune on for giggs???? what about Smith?

Chucky the tree

B-K-DzR wrote:

I thought that for about 30secs and then i thought. If they loose to Milan then they dont deserve to win it. If we didnt play them this round then maybe we'd have played em next. Either way we probably would have had to beat them.

yea, but chances are you would of hate Ruud full fit, and neville back and saha?(i dont know how long he is out for)

You can also argue they could of picked up worse injuries though.

Jivin Turkey

Didnt see the whole game. But from what I saw I think the best team over the two legs won.

Its hard to know where it went wrong. People are saying that RvN shouldnt have played, but had he not played and it been 1-0 they would have been saying he should have started. People said after the first leg that Fergie shouldnt have gone with the five in midfield. Well I think tonight Keane and Scholes got the run around as they were isolated by Milans midfield.

I think you could look back to the Fenerbache game. Things could have been different had they topped the group. You could argue that if you want to lift the trophy you will have to beat Milan, but its not true, someone else could knock them out for you.

Milan were just stronger all over the park. They have a great chance of winning it, which would be fitting to close the curtain on Maldinis career.

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I can appreciate that you guys are supporters and are obviously slightly biased, but you lot are far too confident considering the task at hand.. It is AC Milan in the San Siro. Ye are not the better team either. I do not understand where the optimism is actually coming from..

I think I summed it up perfectly..

Chelsea are without a doubt the best team in Britain. Manu has been relegated to a distant 2nd.. I wonder if Chelsea will be able to emulate United's success of the 90's in the same way United emulated Liverpool's success during the 80's.

I think United fans can see this happening and this is why they hate Chelsea so much. Pretty much the reason why Liverpool hate United so much..

MisterAnarchy

Pah typical sunshine fans

Not really.
Man United are a shadow of the team of the nineties.
I used to love watch them play ,folowed every match on tv or the radio.
Now they rarely excite me.
Sky and the British media keep blowing the merits of the Premiership and how 'great' it is.
The average Premiership match is utter rubbish.
Super Sunday is more often tripe.
The typical after match interview with a manager has him praising the effort and heart shown by his players.
Not good enough in my book.
Skill is the main reason I watch Soccer not spirit.
Compare the football on display to that in La Liga which is delightful.

Davey Devil

Reading through this thread fully vindicates my hatred of all things Man Utd. Granted many Utd fans have made some good knowledgeable posts about the game but some of the nonsense being banded about is typical massive over-reaction all too common within Man Utd's fan base.

Why is it everytime your team loses a massive overhaul of the squad is needed, out with the manager etc? Whereas before the first leg all I saw was people praising Man Utd's great form and what a good job everyone was doing. It's always all or nothing.

Man Utd have some very young players that could potentially be great players in the future, give them time - not the push.

PHB

Devasted is the only words I have to describe myself at this moment in time

cournioni

You have to hold up your hands and say that Milan were by far a superior team to United tonight. Fully deserved to go through. They are a step ahead in class and it showed.

Best United player tonight was Ronaldo. He was the only player who had a go at Milan, he may have been greedy with a few shots but he was the only one getting them in on goal.

Back to the drawing board for Ferguson.

dirkey_wynne

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Not really.
Man United are a shadow of the team of the nineties.
I used to love watch them play ,folowed every match on tv or the radio.

Not really "typical sunshine fans"? To be honest, your post illustrates it. You "used to love watch them play, followed every match on tv or the radio" - does this mean you don't anymore? As we aren't winning? That in my book is a sunshine fan.

As for the match, we were totally outclassed by a better side. The English league is so overrated it's not funny. We couldn't even pass the ball last night. That's embarrassing.

We'll be back. People who talk about "sack the manager" make me laugh, pointing to the mistakes he's made during this year. We all make mistakes. I prefer to look at all the great great things he's done for us in the past 18 years.

dceire

Hats off to Milan they were fantastic, United had no answer them unfortunately

Hope they go on to win the Champions league now they should be even stronger when Shevchenko returns.

Gattuso was exceptional, I hope those statements about him wanting to join United wasn’t just paper talk!

eyerer

Davey Devil wrote:

Whereas before the first leg all I saw was people praising Man Utd's great form and what a good job everyone was doing. It's always all or nothing.

good point

sleepwalker

Finally, Ronaldo...I've had enough of him, if United get an offer for him in the summer, i hope they take it. Looking at the match, he's lost the the respect of all his team mates and they are sick of him. You can't have a player like that in your team, i don't care what age he is.

i didnt watch the match but this is an absolutley ridiculous comment to make hes only 19 and hes a permanent starter now for united get some cop on for god sake hes only already a good player he could be great in the future

but sure if you dont want him you can give him to arsenal if yas want

yop

Excellent footballing performance by Milan, played United out of it on the 2 legs, United needs a new keeper and a world class defender.

All this orgasmic over reaction of Fergie been sacked, over haul of the whole team is typical of some United supporters, especially those who have joined the ranks since the 90's. Get used to is lads, United are not a shadow of what they were in the 90's, it will take time to get things right again.

On the PL, maybe Chelsea and only maybe are eligible to be in the top teams in Europe, but for a handball not given and a rugby tackle on the Barca keeper they too would be out of Europe.

The PL teams could not clean the boots of Milan based on their performances over the last 2 games.
I really fancy Milan for the title this year BUT Lyon are really impressing

talla

sleepwalker wrote:

i didnt watch the match but this is an absolutley ridiculous comment to make hes only 19 and hes a permanent starter now for united get some cop on for god sake hes only already a good player he could be great in the future

but sure if you dont want him you can give him to arsenal if yas want

How about first watching the match first then?
As for your other argument, so what if hes a permanent starter, what has that got to do with anything. Just because someone is a regular starter, means that at present the team have no one better than him, thats all. And United don't have someone better than him in the system they play at the moment.
How long can people keep making excuses for him? Last year the excuse was he's only 18, give him a chance...this year, he's only 19 give him a chance...next year he's only 20, give him a chance...etc..
You can't keep making excuses for a player making the wrong decisions week in and wekk out. If he was actually learning from those mistakes, then thats something to look forward to, but hes not.

Take last night for example, i'm not just referring to his hail mary shots from 30 yards, i'm referring to his decisions to try and beat a player over and over again (which he has been doing for the last 2 years) instead of putting in an early ball so the defence don't get time to prepare. I'm referring to the fact that he couldn't pick out a team mate. He couldn't play a simple through ball etc etc...

Fair enough, he did show for the ball, i'll give him credit for that, but he made the wrong decision everytime.

In my opinion his development has gone backwards since the European Championships as hes started to believe his own hype.

Ashley Cole was right last year when he said get in and tackle him hard for fair early on and he won't bother you for the rest of the game.

Iago

My opinion on the game and on the United team in general is as follows.

Over two legs Milan were by far the better team, this wasn't surprising or shocking in the least. Milan are a better team, if United played them 100 times they would be lucky to win 10 of them. Unbeaten in 16 in the premiership points more to the lack of quality in the league than United playing well, and lets be honest failing to score in 70 minutes against Crystal Palace with 11 men and 20 minutes with 10 men simply isn't good enough. Now you can make all the excuses you like about fielding a weakened team, but Uniteds second string should be good enough to break down teams like Crystal Palace.

Moving on to the team itself, wholesale changes are needed, and no this isn't a knee jerk reaction, it's the same thing I've been saying for the last two seasons.

1. We need a new keeper, a world class keeper. You build from the back, if the opposition can't score it takes the pressure off your attackers and builds confidence right throughout the team. I know from playing myself that there's nothing worse than running your heart out on the pitch, getting the opening goal and then watching some clown in defence or goal make a stupid mistake that costs you the match. United have been guilty of that far too often this season. Three Keepers I've mentioned before Frey, Issakson, Pletisoka, all have the potential to be brilliant and would be better than any of our current options. Would love Given as well, but he won't leave the toon.

2. Silvestre must go, United would still get maybe £4-£5 million for him...maybe. We need a new centre-half, Brown is good but not consistent enough and his injury problems are a cause for concern. I'm not sure who we could get for centre-half though. Any of the players that you would really rate are all playing for top clubs and unlikely to leave. Maybe drop Keane back in there with Ferdinand if we can get a good quality centre midfielder.

3. The midfield..oh where to start. Sell Giggs, should have done it at the start of last season, has to do it at the start of next season. I said before that he was only playing well because he was chasing a new contract and it sadly has been proved to be true, how I wish it wasn't. The time has come for him to go, and with a new left midfielder we also need a centre midfielder. No idea where they will come from, Hargreaves has been touted but I'm not convinced he would be a good buy for the team. Ronaldo should be put out of his misery, he is young, he should learn but he's rapidly running out of time. I'd give him to the end of this season and start of next, if he hasn't copped on ship him out, he's not helping the team and he's not helping himself.

4. Last but not least the quality of the squad, there's no point in getting rid of these players if we don't invest big in our squad. At the moment there's a shocking lack of quality in the squad. I mean seriously, a bench that's made up of Carroll/Ricardo, P. Neville, Fortune, Saha, Smith is hardly going to strike fear into the hearts of the top European teams is it?

Just my 2c, things must change and rapidly or we face reliving the 70's and 80's all over again...

Frey

G. Neville Ferdinand Heinze

Keane

Smith Scholes Fletcher Ronaldo


Rooney

Van Nistlerooy

PHB

This reaction is unreal:

LEt's clear up a couple of things

UTD defense played brilliantly.
Rio made perhaps the best defeensive action I have ever esen, when he just nuged the ball out of crespo's path, outstanding.
Slyvestre gave the ball away once and Crespo hit the crossbar, it was a mistake, but he also intercepted about 10 quality passes from Milan that would have been goals.
Brown played very well, ineffective going up front because he is a centre back
Heinze played as good as he always does.

I don't know why people are picking on Ronaldo, if you want to pick on anyone pick on ROoney, he got 3 touches in the entire game, his movement off the ball was terrible.

Fergie's 4-5-1 cots them in Europe?
He played 4-4-2 for 70 mins and we created one decent chance, thats it.
You needd 4-5-1 in Europe because the midfields are so damm tight and good, full stop.
When 4-5-1 happened we created some chances.

Fortune wwas brought on because GIggs was injured.
HE couldn't bring on any other player because there was too long to go, and it was either FOrtune or O'SHea which hda to come on. shush

Milan were the better team and deserved the win

colster

United's success was founded on it's midfield. That's were the game was lost last night. I think we need to replace Giggs, Keane and Scholes. We need a new goalkeeper as well. I also think it's time that Ferguson went. I think he's taken the club as far as he can. If United are to win the CL again i think they need a foreign coach. They need to develop a patient possession game.

thejollyrodger

One of the major problems that all english clubs have is that they keep giving the ball away. Milian have great patience like any continetial team and they just keeping passing it around until there is an opening.

The priemership is a very low standard and teams like Chelsea, Man Utd Arsenal can afford to give the ball away and not get punished.

Slash/ED

Yeah I think that's fair except maybe in the case of Chelsea who are better at things like ball retention than the rest in the league. The premiership standard is just weaker than the other leagues, beyond the top three there isn't much of anything there and so teams struggle to cope with the major step up in class teams like AC Milan present.

The Muppet

I can't believe the reaction by some United supporters here particulaly about Ronaldo. He was up against argueably the best defence in the game and he he never gave up trying. OK he couldn't break the down but neither could Giggs Scholes Keane Rudd who all had poor games last night to say the least.
United looked so poor because Milan were so good, not leaving an inch of space to play through them.

He frustrates me a lot of the time but Ronaldo was our best attacking player last night and it's fact he is only nineteen so give him time to develop those extra skills he needs to be the complete player. It will be another few years before he gets there but in five years time I would rather have him in the team than have to play against him.

IMO United need a new keeper though Howard did nothing wrong last night. Sylvester makes too many unforced mistakes in big games for my liking. Midfield is the problem as we knew it would be and that area needs some investment soon.

PiE

Delighted.

dirkey_wynne

Wow, the reactions are unbelievable in here. Fergie to go. No. No no no no no. We have been in the CL for 10 years in a row because of him. We have won many titles because of him.

Ronaldo to go. No. He has character. I don't care what anyone said. Yes he infuriates the beejebus out of me, and I screamed many times last night to fnck off back to Portugal. But that was in the heat of the moment. He was the one person constantly looking for the ball. Yes he made wrong decisions. But that shall come with time. He is going to get there. And he has character. We went 1 down. Who looked for the ball? Keane? No. Scholes? No. Ronaldo - yes. Constantly. He looked to pick up the fight. Right till the last minute he went at them. Things didn't come off. But they will, he kept going. If he keeps doing that some night things will come off. The fact he kept going, when all aroudn him disappeared shows lots about his character.

Why is noone flaying Rooney? I don't think ppl should, he was brutal but this knee jerk reaction is out of hand. The reason ppl are going on about Ronaldo is because he tried things and they failed, but at least he tried. Rooney? Did nothing, tried nothing.

Yes we need to change the midfield, but the same ppl who go on about Keane, Giggs, Scholes were going on about them being still the best 3 weeks ago! I mean talk about overreaction. Keane ran the show against Pool/Arsenal - he was still the top man. He has a bad game last night and he's awful. Scholes was popping goals for fun around Xmas - he was top. Now again he's brutal. Giggs was terrorising teams - again now he's brutal. Sell them, sell them all is the cry. God, it's irritating.

Though I agree with Iago about Giggs and his contract - I said at start of season he needed to go.

But this knee jerk reaction is, as always OTT. We played a fantastic side and lost 2-0 on agg, and were totally outplayed. But we don't have a God given right to win these games just because ooooh we're Manchester Utd. Learn to not go over the top when ppl play well, and again over the top when ppl play bad! It's very irritating.

colster

Yes we came up against a great side last night. Thats the level United should be aiming to meet and exceed. They won't do that with Keane/Scholes/Giggs in midfield. Thats been proven not only last night but over the last few years. You can't say that they'll improve over the next few years. United need to replace them. Ferguson knows this. Thats why he was after Ronaldinho, Robben and why he bought Djemba Djemba and Kleberson.

Ferguson has been a brilliant manager but i think it's time a new man is brought in. It would give the squad a new impetus. Remember no matter how good a manager is/was there is always a point at which they have run out of steam + ideas. I think Ferguson has reached that point.

LegacyUser

Why sell Giggs? That would be pointless. Keep him as a bench player and get a new left winger which we have needed now for the past couple of seasons. We need a new CB. Sylvestre did block out a lot of passes but he is a clown. Howard = Shoot him or give him another season as a bench warmer hoping he can do something.

All you people saying "Ferguson move on.." - you make me sick. Not literally but I would not mind puking on you when you say that. A man who has made Man Utd the club it is, "Ship him out..." oh **** off to be honest! That is my only response! He is there for as long as he wants to be whether you like it or not.

If Chelsea were not bought by a sugar daddy, we would be top of the league right now. But boo hoo, we have to settle for second this season(so far anyway) during the process of building a new team. I mean that is so **** isn't it? Second in the premier league? <sarcasm> What a crap team Man Utd are...I mean if we can not beat Milan who still have an absolutely unreal back line and a sexual midfield run by Gattuso, what chance do we have? Considering the average of Man Utd is mid twenties(rough estimate), we really are a **** team.</sarcasm> Seriously people wake the **** up! Stop acting like such bloody glory hunters. No wonder Man Utd fans have such a notorious reputation for being glory hunters after reading some of the tripe you post.

talla

Cheesdude, keep it civil, everyone has a right to voice their opinion, just tone it down.

colster

cheesedude wrote:

If Chelsea were not bought by a sugar daddy, we would be top of the league right now. But boo hoo, we have to settle for second this season(so far anyway) during the process of building a new team. I mean that is so **** isn't it? Second in the premier league? <sarcasm> What a crap team Man Utd are...I mean if we can not beat Milan who still have an absolutely unreal back line and a sexual midfield run by Gattuso, what chance do we have? Considering the average of Man Utd is mid twenties(rough estimate), we really are a **** team.</sarcasm> Seriously people wake the **** up! Stop acting like such bloody glory hunters. No wonder Man Utd fans have such a notorious reputation for being glory hunters after reading some of the tripe you post.

Glory Hunters??? Explain that. What should we aim for? Should we aim to win the CL. If so then in my opinion we need to replace Giggs/Keane/Scholes and perhaps Ferguson to go.

Rossonero

A great game! Milan were great. Kept possession well and defended superbly, especially Cafu. Nesta got some great headed clearances. Stam was superb.
Gattuso was unreal! GOD!

Van Nistelrooy is clearly not settled back into form, luckily enough. It was hilarious when Cafu laughed at Ronaldo. It's funny seing Ronaldo try and act tough!
Heinze was poor I thought, but he is one of the most convincing divers! If Rui Costa could push him over as easy as that, Portugal would have the best rugby team in the world, if they had Rui.

Crespo was superb, also, was a thorn in Utd's side.


Dida; no rating
Cafu 9/10
Nesta 7/10
Stam 7/10
Maldini 7/10
Seedorf 6/10
Gattuso 9/10
Pirlo 7/10
Rui 7/10
Kaka 7/10
Crespo 8/10
Ambrosini no rating
Copstacurta no rating

LegacyUser

talla wrote:

Cheesdude, keep it civil, everyone has a right to voice their opinion, just tone it down.

You are correct. I am sorry.