man utd versus AC milian

Sherifu

United obviously need a top class goalie and defender.
If they can secure these in the summer they might do something next year.
Until then they're screwed.

Iago

cheesedude wrote:

Why sell Giggs? That would be pointless. Keep him as a bench player and get a new left winger which we have needed now for the past couple of seasons.

because if we don't sell him we'll have no money to buy a new player. In case you missed it we bought Wayne Rooney with next years transfer budget, there's little if any money available for transfers. Less now that we've missed out on additional Champions League and TV revenue.

We need a new CB. Sylvestre did block out a lot of passes but he is a clown. Howard = Shoot him or give him another season as a bench warmer hoping he can do something.

agreed

All you people saying "Ferguson move on.." - you make me sick. Not literally but I would not mind puking on you when you say that. A man who has made Man Utd the club it is, "Ship him out..." oh **** off to be honest! That is my only response! He is there for as long as he wants to be whether you like it or not.

That's the problem isn't it, where's his motivation? He is practically unmovable from Man Utd. I love what he's done for the club and I still hold hope that he can turn it around...time will tell..

If Chelsea were not bought by a sugar daddy, we would be top of the league right now. But boo hoo, we have to settle for second this season(so far anyway) during the process of building a new team. I mean that is so **** isn't it? Second in the premier league?

Yes actually it is, it's a rubbish leagueand whether we finish first or last is irrelevant, it's the way we're playing that has people up in arms. Losing against Portsmouth, drawing with city, Bolton and Palace..simply not good enough. Of course we have off days like everyone else, too many this season and too many last season, hardly a knee jerk reaction when it's based on at least two seasons.

I mean if we can not beat Milan who still have an absolutely unreal back line and a sexual midfield run by Gattuso, what chance do we have?

This is practically the same defence and midfield that deportivo waltzed through in the quarter finals last year. They're far from invincible, I mean the average age at the back is 32 for gods sake. They're good, but we should at least trouble them, which we didn't do at all over two legs.

Considering the average of Man Utd is mid twenties(rough estimate), we really are a **** team.</sarcasm> Seriously people wake the **** up! Stop acting like such bloody glory hunters. No wonder Man Utd fans have such a notorious reputation for being glory hunters after reading some of the tripe you post.

United have been below par for the last 3 seasons, pretty much the same core players are stil playing, we need a lot of changes.

we've always been below par in european competition, we were lucky to win it in '99 and haven't passed the Q/F stage since then. Simply not good enough, we should be competing in Europe, the current team isn't going to do that.

The Rooster

Rossonero wrote:

Dida; no rating

Maybe its been done before, but I've never seen it. Thats a class way to slag the opposition without really slagging them. There's just no answer to it

Its funny/odd that Ronaldo is the one who gets all the slagging, especially in the media, but also it seems among fans, while Rooney is never criticised by the media and rarely by the fans. Personally I thought Rooney was worse than Ronaldo in both games.

Hard to fathom Ferguson changing back to a 4-4-2 system in the European game so far, after going 4-5-1 most of the season. Especially as it left nothing on the bench. I think he got swayed by all the paper talk after the first leg, which would be very unusual. Leaving out Rooney or Ronaldo would have at least meant United would have had a Plan B.

I predict ManU will stroll to the FA Cup again.

I think a problem Ferguson has had all season is not knowing his best team or his best formation. He did seem to solve it for a while when RvN was injured, but now that's he's fit again its a problem again. RvN seems to me to be "trying too hard" when he plays with Rooney, for whatever reason

smemon

again not trying to make excuses, milan deserved to win but did anyone notice the milan pitch? it's notoriously hard and a poor surface. anytime ive seen it, its always in poor condition tbh. ronaldo is someone who relays on a snooker table surface and in fairness to him the ball didnt sit right for him last night either.

a couple of pass backs to howard went heywire because they bobbled back to him. utd as we all know like a fast, slick surface so milan's pitch didnt do them any favours. perhaps that contributed to the lack of chances.

anyhow, utd lost fair and square against one of the best. although a mass clearout as suggested is over-reacting, utd fans simply know in order to improve, changes must be made. after all, utd and their fans are used to success and they cant be accused of being 'glory hunters' because they want to see a few changes.

Rossonero

smemon wrote:

did anyone notice the milan pitch? it's notoriously hard and a poor surface. anytime ive seen it, its always in poor condition

Yes, it's been poor all the time. Because the stand is so big and so closed in, the grass doesn't get enough sunlight. Plus, unlike old trafford, it's being played on every weekend with Inter sharing.

Inter-Porto next week coz Uefa didn't synchronise the draw,

smemon

The Rooster wrote:

Its funny/odd that Ronaldo is the one who gets all the slagging, especially in the media, but also it seems among fans, while Rooney is never criticised by the media and rarely by the fans. Personally I thought Rooney was worse than Ronaldo in both games.

agreed. in fact all season, ronaldo has played better than rooney imo. apart from his champs league debut, he's failed to perform. he's banged in a few goals but gone missing for long periods of time. he looked lost last night. out of his depth.
we might have had ronaldinho for less, i rest my case.

english players are good, technically great players with passion, love of the game etc.. but they dont have that world class that can change a game. i mean you look at ronaldinho's 2nd goal last night- that's what seperates the good from great. you cant teach that sort of thing, you cant manufacture it.

rooney as ive heard so often was bought for big games. where was he last night? it sickens me ronaldo, a player who stood up and was counted when utd went 1-0 down is used as the scapegoat when 30m wonderboy rooney slips out the back door and gets away just because he's english.

smemon

Rossonero wrote:

Yes, it's been poor all the time. Because the stand is so big and so closed in, the grass doesn't get enough sunlight. Plus, unlike old trafford, it's being played on every weekend with Inter sharing.

Inter-Porto next week coz Uefa didn't synchronise the draw,

that would explain it alright.

by the way those floodlights are like the sun! no shadows at all on the pitch! i was amazed at how bright they are, you'd swear the game was a 3pm kick off.

LegacyUser

because if we don't sell him we'll have no money to buy a new player. In case you missed it we bought Wayne Rooney with next years transfer budget, there's little if any money available for transfers. Less now that we've missed out on additional Champions League and TV revenue.

Oh in case I missed it? So how much do you expect to get for a 32 year old winger? Sorry not more than a few million. I would rather have him as a bench warmer than get two new replacement wingers. He is better than fortune regardless.

That's the problem isn't it, where's his motivation? He is practically unmovable from Man Utd. I love what he's done for the club and I still hold hope that he can turn it around...time will tell..

No that is not a problem. He is unmovable from Man Utd because they would not be the club they are without him. He has built a couple of teams in the past. I have full confidence he can build this team again which he is already doing.

Yes actually it is, it's a rubbish leagueand whether we finish first or last is irrelevant, it's the way we're playing that has people up in arms. Losing against Portsmouth, drawing with city, Bolton and Palace..simply not good enough. Of course we have off days like everyone else, too many this season and too many last season, hardly a knee jerk reaction when it's based on at least two seasons.

I suggest you find a new league to follow then. Why do you follow a league team if it is rubbish? Whether we finish first or last is irrelevant? Are you ripping the piss? We are second in the league. Our team has had a lot of changes. Third last season and so far, second this season? Not exactly a crisis now is it.

This is practically the same defence and midfield that deportivo waltzed through in the quarter finals last year. They're far from invincible, I mean the average age at the back is 32 for gods sake. They're good, but we should at least trouble them, which we didn't do at all over two legs.

And Arsenal thrashed Inter Milan 5 - 1 or something last year and everyone said they would win the champions league because of it. That was an off day. Only a fool would say otherwise. Ac Milan do not make a habit of letting in that many goals and that was an off day for them against Depor too.

United have been below par for the last 3 seasons, pretty much the same core players are stil playing, we need a lot of changes.

Eh HELLO? Only Giggs, keane and scholes and G. Neville play regularly. The rest of the team is different. G. Neville is still only 29. He is a very consistent player. Keane is still brilliant but we do need a replacement for him for when he does decide to retire. Scholes is 29 and while can be off the boil at times is still a key player.

we've always been below par in european competition. we were lucky to win it in '99 and haven't passed the Q/F stage since then. Simply not good enough. we should be competing in Europe, the current team isn't going to do that.

Agreed. Last year we were unlucky. Goalkeeping error destroyed us. Goalkeeping damaged us again this year in the first leg and we did not take the chances we had in either leg. If Giggs scored different game guaranteed. If Fortune scored in the first leg, different game guaranteed. Unlucky.

jank

Your so called "truth" hasn't happened yet

It has now pornapster

I always knew that milan would win even from the draw.

Milan were just on another planet and its funny how some Utd fans over-valued their players and undervalued milans.

Like "Roanldo will tear that old maldini a new Asshole by running him into the ground" and comments like that. One always has to look at thing in perpective and not over-hype their own team like sky do to its own league.

Clearly now there are some enlightened Reds this morning thinking "wow i never knew cafu was that good"!
Well if he played in 3 world cup finals he aint exactly **** now is he!
And "Gattusso is god".
Talk of him going to Man Utd is fantasy and if you have been to Milan and Manchester you know what I am on about!

Clearly Utd and the Premier league itself is just not good enough in europe. Chelsea maybe has a chance but i think they will find it harder to score against the italian sides as barca defense is not exactly water tight

Oh and if european player of the year sheva was playing it would have been a cricket score over the two legs imo.

Milan are def favourites to win it

KdjaCL

jank wrote:

Clearly Utd and the Premier league itself is just not good enough in europe. Chelsea maybe has a chance but i think they will find it harder to score against the italian sides as barca defense is not exactly water tight

Psst up until last night there were more english teams in CL than italian or Spanish :eek:


Also what PHB said totally agree with.

Also sunshine fans only know winning, can never fathom not being the best and have to argue every point agsint their team. Look at 30 year + pool fans.... thats your future

kdjac

thejollyrodger

Psst up until last night there were more english teams in CL than italian or Spanish

Err, up until now British clubs have only won it 10 times out of 48 odd, Real madrid alone have won it 9 times.


1956: Real Madrid
1957: Real Madrid
1958: Real Madrid
1959: Real Madrid
1960: Real Madrid
1961: Benfica
1962: Benfica
1963: AC Milan
1964: Inter Milan
1965: Inter Milan
1966: Real Madrid
1967: Celtic
1968: Manchester United
1969: AC Milan
1970: Feyenoord
1971: Ajax
1972: Ajax
1973: Ajax
1974: Bayern Munich
1975: Bayern Munich
1976: Bayern Munich
1977: Liverpool
1978: Liverpool
1979: Nottingham Forest
1980: Nottingham Forest
1981: Liverpool
1982: Aston Villa
1983: Hamburg
1984: Liverpool
1985: Juventus
1986: Steaua Bucharest
1987: Porto
1988: PSV Eindhoven
1989: AC Milan
1990: AC Milan
1991: Red Star Belgrade
1992: Barcelona
1994: AC Milan
1995: Ajax
1996: Juventus
1997: Borussia Dortmund
1998: Real Madrid
1999: Manchester United
2000: Real Madrid
2001: Bayern Munich
2002: Real Madrid
2003: AC Milan
2004: FC Porto

The Muppet

thejollyrodger wrote:

Err, up until now British clubs have only won it 10 times out of 48 odd, Real madrid alone have won it 9 times.

To be fair it is a a totally different competition now than it was when only the league champions of each country were allowed to enter.

thejollyrodger

it doesnt matter, the best sides were still playing each other. My point is that the continental teams are better footballing sides.

vorbis

ha I could be going blind but it seems Barca winning it only once is the only other Spanish team to win it. That makes it 10 apiece

thejollyrodger wrote:

Err, up until now British clubs have only won it 10 times out of 48 odd, Real madrid alone have won it 9 times.


1956: Real Madrid
1957: Real Madrid
1958: Real Madrid
1959: Real Madrid
1960: Real Madrid
1961: Benfica
1962: Benfica
1963: AC Milan
1964: Inter Milan
1965: Inter Milan
1966: Real Madrid
1967: Celtic
1968: Manchester United
1969: AC Milan
1970: Feyenoord
1971: Ajax
1972: Ajax
1973: Ajax
1974: Bayern Munich
1975: Bayern Munich
1976: Bayern Munich
1977: Liverpool
1978: Liverpool
1979: Nottingham Forest
1980: Nottingham Forest
1981: Liverpool
1982: Aston Villa
1983: Hamburg
1984: Liverpool
1985: Juventus
1986: Steaua Bucharest
1987: Porto
1988: PSV Eindhoven
1989: AC Milan
1990: AC Milan
1991: Red Star Belgrade
1992: Barcelona
1994: AC Milan
1995: Ajax
1996: Juventus
1997: Borussia Dortmund
1998: Real Madrid
1999: Manchester United
2000: Real Madrid
2001: Bayern Munich
2002: Real Madrid
2003: AC Milan
2004: FC Porto

thejollyrodger

fair point.

KdjaCL

thejollyrodger wrote:

Err, up until now British clubs have only won it 10 times out of 48 odd, Real madrid alone have won it 9 times.

Nice post should try reading and understanding before quoting and posting tho.

Psst up until last night there were more english teams in CL than italian or Spanish

Arsenal
Bayern Munich,
Bayer Leverkusen
Liverpool,
Juventus
Real Madrid,
Monaco
PSV,
AC Milan
Man Utd
Lyon
Werder Bremen
Barcelona
Chelsea
FC Porto
Inter Milan

I count 4 English 2 Spanish 3 italian up until last night. See reading and understanding helps everyone.

kdjac

thejollyrodger

A+ in Math for KdjaC

The Muppet

thejollyrodger wrote:

it doesnt matter, the best sides were still playing each other. My point is that the continental teams are better footballing sides.

Comparing The European Cup to Champions League is akin to comparing The FA Cup to The Premier League. They are totally different competitions.

vorbis wrote:

ha I could be going blind but it seems Barca winning it only once is the only other Spanish team to win it. That makes it 10 apiece

Well spotted. English teams did not enter every European cup competition either so following thejollyroger's logic English Football must be better than Spanish.

sleepwalker

How about first watching the match first then?

well surely you dont base the decision to sell a player you bought for 12 million quid based upon one game

i didnt think of him much last season but he seems to have improved alot and any player you can get a regular starting place at man united at the age of 19 is a very good player

Jivin Turkey

thejollyrodger wrote:

Err, up until now British clubs have only won it 10 times out of 48 odd, Real madrid alone have won it 9 times.


1956: Real Madrid
1957: Real Madrid
1958: Real Madrid
1959: Real Madrid
1960: Real Madrid
1961: Benfica
1962: Benfica
1963: AC Milan
1964: Inter Milan
1965: Inter Milan
1966: Real Madrid
1967: Celtic
1968: Manchester United
1969: AC Milan
1970: Feyenoord
1971: Ajax
1972: Ajax
1973: Ajax
1974: Bayern Munich
1975: Bayern Munich
1976: Bayern Munich
1977: Liverpool
1978: Liverpool
1979: Nottingham Forest
1980: Nottingham Forest
1981: Liverpool
1982: Aston Villa
1983: Hamburg
1984: Liverpool
1985: Juventus
1986: Steaua Bucharest
1987: Porto
1988: PSV Eindhoven
1989: AC Milan
1990: AC Milan
1991: Red Star Belgrade
1992: Barcelona
1994: AC Milan
1995: Ajax
1996: Juventus
1997: Borussia Dortmund
1998: Real Madrid
1999: Manchester United
2000: Real Madrid
2001: Bayern Munich
2002: Real Madrid
2003: AC Milan
2004: FC Porto

Did you even read your stats before putting them up?

English teams: 9 wins
Spanish teams: 10 wins
Italian teams: 10 wins
Dutch teams: 6 wins
German teams: 6 wins
Potugese teams: 4 wins
Romanian teams: 1 win
Yugoslav teams: 1 win
Scottish teams: 1 win

And then the one non contest, when Marseille "won" it.

Now to me thats not a bad record. Particularly considering the English teams were banned from it between 1986 and 1993. And also that it took them a few years to re-adjust to European football following their sabatical, because it was in those years that European football really began to change due to money and sponsorship (the CL was formed in 1991(?)).

And also that they suffered worse than most from the foreign players rule when it affected UK players.

So to summarise, you point proves absolutely nothing.

Seaneh

Bow before me.
I am your new God.

thejollyrodger

I was in a rush out the door

The Muppet

Seaneh wrote:

Bow before me.
I am your new God.

Only until liverpool knock you out,

Congrats on your deserved win. we'll get ya again.

talla

sleepwalker wrote:

well surely you dont base the decision to sell a player you bought for 12 million quid based upon one game

i didnt think of him much last season but he seems to have improved alot and any player you can get a regular starting place at man united at the age of 19 is a very good player

No if you actually take the time to read my posts correctly in this thread you will see i am not basing my opinion on one match.

Roy Carroll held down a regular place for United until recently, doesnt make him a good player. Don't get me wrong, Ronaldo is a very good player, but he's not a team player. He plays as an individual, only as a last resort will he attempt to play another player in.

One very noticable thing is Uniteds style has changed since he arrived at the club. The whole pace of their attack has changed. I'm not on about getting from one end of the pitch to the other, i'm on about when they get to the opposition half, theres no quick ball in to the box, no quickness to the passes because the ball is held up by Ronaldo beating a player inside out, then beating the player again, does a trick but all the time giving the opposition a chance to get back in place and organized.

smemon

again i fail to see why ronaldo gets all the stick. scholes has been poor this season in general, with van out for a good chunk of it, rooney has been handed the main striker role and failed to deliver imo.

apart from a burst of 10 or so games, giggs has been poor this season. thats 3 regular attacking players below par. ok ronaldo has been poor at times too but why does everyone else get away with it?

imo, rooney's presence in the team is causing lack of shape/tempo in utd's side. fergie is under pressure to play him (30m, england whizz kid, new pele etc...) and in order to stick to his favoured 4-5-1 he's playing out of position most of the time and cant hack it when he's played as a lone man upfront so utd end up with 3/4 attacking options in midfield but none upfront and we lose possesion in the last 1/3 because theres no movement or forward runs.

MisterAnarchy

Great post Iago.
I agree with most of what you say although I think Silvestre is a good player far better than Ferdinand.
Howard is also receiving far too much criticism.He is a good keeper.
Too many blind fans here.Seem to believe the propaganda on Man U TV

dirkey_wynne

KdjaC wrote:

Nice post should try reading and understanding before quoting and posting tho.



Arsenal
Bayern Munich,
Bayer Leverkusen
Liverpool,
Juventus
Real Madrid,
Monaco
PSV,
AC Milan
Man Utd
Lyon
Werder Bremen
Barcelona
Chelsea
FC Porto
Inter Milan

I count 4 English 2 Spanish 3 italian up until last night. See reading and understanding helps everyone.

kdjac

Perhaps up until last night, but to be honest all English teams should easily make it out of the group stages as it's really p!ss easy. I mean, look at Utd this year? Didn't win once away from home and still easily progressed. So having that many at that stage doesn't matter. Now we look to the 1/4's and we're down to 2 English sides, no Spaniards and 3 Italian. (I'm confident Inter will progress). 2 years back we had 3 Italian semi finalists. Say what you want, the Italian league is still the best. They are the sides that are still there when it counts.

dirkey_wynne

smemon wrote:

again i fail to see why ronaldo gets all the stick. scholes has been poor this season in general, with van out for a good chunk of it, rooney has been handed the main striker role and failed to deliver imo.

apart from a burst of 10 or so games, giggs has been poor this season. thats 3 regular attacking players below par. ok ronaldo has been poor at times too but why does everyone else get away with it?

imo, rooney's presence in the team is causing lack of shape/tempo in utd's side. fergie is under pressure to play him (30m, england whizz kid, new pele etc...) and in order to stick to his favoured 4-5-1 he's playing out of position most of the time and cant hack it when he's played as a lone man upfront so utd end up with 3/4 attacking options in midfield but none upfront and we lose possesion in the last 1/3 because theres no movement or forward runs.

The reason Ronaldo is getting the criticism is that he shows for the ball all the time, whether he's playing badly or not, he doesn't hide. He wants that ball and he'll keep on trying. I for one wnat that in my team.

KdjaCL

dirkey_wynne wrote:

. Say what you want, the Italian league is still the best. They are the sides that are still there when it counts.

Of course they are, every year? Every 2 yaers one country provides 3 or 4 teams in last 16 to 8. Sometimes NONE get into the qtrs obviously whoever gets 1 team in 3 years in a row is still the best.

kdjac

dirkey_wynne

KdjaC wrote:

Of course they are, every year? Every 2 yaers one country provides 3 or 4 teams in last 16 to 8. Sometimes NONE get into the qtrs obviously whoever gets 1 team in 3 years in a row is still the best.

kdjac

I'm not sure whether you're agreeing with my point here or not as I don't quite understand.

Basically the point I'm making is that about 2/3 years ago, everyone was going on about how the Spanish league was best. I believe it isn't, and wasn't. It was a rare occurrence when the Italian teams didn't really figure. Generally they're there or thereabouts - case in point 2 years ago when 3 of them were in the semis.

People were telling me it Chelsea/Barca was a bigger game than Utd/Milan, as they both first in respective divisions. Yet you look at the group stages - who came out on top of their group? Not Barca! And Barca are top of a league where none of the other teams are inspiring - look at Madrids form.

Anyway, this is totally off topic.

Basically, well done Milan. Top notch. Great football, not just defensive. Totally played within themselves - I felt even if we scored they could raise it by two gears and pop a goal in no bother.

smemon

dirkey_wynne wrote:

The reason Ronaldo is getting the criticism is that he shows for the ball all the time, whether he's playing badly or not, he doesn't hide. He wants that ball and he'll keep on trying. I for one wnat that in my team.

i agree. thats why i fail to see why he gets all the stick. the great thing about ronaldo is, he's not a confidence player. if he's rugby tackled for 89mins, he'll still try his fancy flicks and tricks to skin his man. over 90 mins, he'll usually create at least 1 goalscoring opportunity for either himself or a team-mate.

today, not many players can beat a man using skill alone, pace maybe. in fact i struggle to think of 5 players that can beat a man from a static starting point. ronaldinho can do it, 2 ronaldo's can.

the likes of duff, robben, giggs, rooney cannot beat a man using skill alone, they have to be running at pace. ronaldo doesnt have to move the ball yet he puts most defenders off balance. to me that invaluable. i used to love watching denilson with all the quick fire stepovers and skill, ronaldo does it even better. he was portugal's main man in euro 2004 as a teenager, the guy has got class and even though he might not be the finished article now, he's got plenty of time to improve and become a great player.

dirkey_wynne

smemon wrote:

i agree. thats why i fail to see why he gets all the stick. the great thing about ronaldo is, he's not a confidence player. if he's rugby tackled for 89mins, he'll still try his fancy flicks and tricks to skin his man. over 90 mins, he'll usually create at least 1 goalscoring opportunity for either himself or a team-mate.

today, not many players can beat a man using skill alone, pace maybe. in fact i struggle to think of 5 players that can beat a man from a static starting point. ronaldinho can do it, 2 ronaldo's can.

the likes of duff, robben, giggs, rooney cannot beat a man using skill alone, they have to be running at pace. ronaldo doesnt have to move the ball yet he puts most defenders off balance. to me that invaluable. i used to love watching denilson with all the quick fire stepovers and skill, ronaldo does it even better. he was portugal's main man in euro 2004 as a teenager, the guy has got class and even though he might not be the finished article now, he's got plenty of time to improve and become a great player.

Well said. He can frustate like hell at times, but he's gonna get there.

fade2black

Firstly, I think that there are a lot of Man Utd supporters who began following their team in the 70s and 80s when they were not exactly setting the world alight and in fact it was actually Liverpool who were the fashionable team. Just becuase they have achieved some well deserved success -thanks to patience, Ferguson and a huge fanbase - does not mean that supporters can't, like other fans, question their manager and their players. It really is unfair to call somebody a sunshine supporter just because they believe Ferguson should step down. If it was any other team in Europe and the manager had dissappointed several years in a row with a wealth of resources behind him then it would be his head. Ferguson is surviving on past glories at the moment and sentiment is the anchor that's keeping this ship from sailing on. Fans of other teams have joined into this discussion and slated the so called "sunshine supporters" for saying Ferguson should be shot. However if you take a look at a lot of previous threads these same people ave been saying the same thing for a while now, after some glaring managerial errors - it's not a "typical" knee jerk reaction to being dumped out of the Champions League again. Personally I think that if you asked Roy Keane for his honest opinion he would say that Alex Ferguson is out staying his welcome.

One thing I don't understand about Man Utd is their inconsistancy. As fans we are on a massive high when they deliver a trashing to arsenal and all players play out of their skins. But then they go and draw against Crystal Palace (Albeit with a shuffled pack thanks to Ferguson underestimating his opponents once again). My first thought after the match on Tuesday was WOW what a team AC Milan are, surely they are massive favourites now. Looking back though, and at the amount of times that we gave the ball away I see now that they were playing against a team that were all over the place with absolutely no belief in themselves. Chelsea beat Barcvelona because they were up for the game and actually believed they could do it. Fair play to them I say, Barcelona were too cocky. Watching that Man Utd team walk out into the San Siro the other night, can any fan say they were confident of a great performance? I doubt it. They didn't look like a team who believed they could get to the next round of the CL, they looked like eleven players drained of confidence and lacking in organisation.

So, next season, what happens? Most of you want Ferguson to stay, so tell me, what do you think he'll do differently? He seems to think that Silvestre is a defender worthy of a regular place, he thought the same of Djemba Djemba, Kleberson, Forlan, Bellion....Listen, when Ferguson had points to prove and his back was against the wall he got results out of his team, he was fighting for his job and the players were fighting for their manager. Nowadays United are like that "B" list celebrity hoping they'll get an invite to the hot party.

dirkey_wynne

fade2black wrote:

Firstly, I think that there are a lot of Man Utd supporters who began following their team in the 70s and 80s when they were not exactly setting the world alight and in fact it was actually Liverpool who were the fashionable team. Just becuase they have achieved some well deserved success -thanks to patience, Ferguson and a huge fanbase - does not mean that supporters can't, like other fans, question their manager and their players. It really is unfair to call somebody a sunshine supporter just because they believe Ferguson should step down. If it was any other team in Europe and the manager had dissappointed several years in a row with a wealth of resources behind him then it would be his head.

Several years in a row? It is two years since we won the premiership! Last year we lost out to a sensational team who went unbeaten. We missed out on beating the eventual winners of the CL due to a wrongly disallowed goal, and an atrocious last minute goalkeeping error. Those two things hardly in Fergie's control, yet had they gone in our favour who knows where we could have gone!

thejollyrodger

This is the FIRST time EVER that a spanish club hasnt been included in the quarter finals since the start of the competition. that says a lot for the standard of La Liga !

smemon

thejollyrodger wrote:

This is the FIRST time EVER that a spanish club hasnt been included in the quarter finals since the start of the competition. that says a lot for the standard of La Liga !

or maybe it says this is football and anything can happen. i hate when people dig up stats when really they dont matter/count. who cares if no spanish team is in it? everyone knows liverpool would rather play chelsea than barcelona, id imagine the rest of europe the same.

madrid are in decline, its no surprise to see them out, barca probably went out to the winners or near winners. la liga like any other league has it's strengths and weaknesses. a blip in form one year in europe doenst mean la liga is worse than the EPL or italy. its a fluke, because chelsea beat barcelona does not mean england is better than spain.