TD punched by joyrider

gurramok

From breaking news

What do people think of the scourge of joyriding which is still at epidemic proportions in certain parts of dublin which has been ongoing for the last number of years ? (assuming if affects you)
A TD gets punched by one of these scumbags and the media attention is negative.
As I live in an area similar to the one described in the news story, I feel that our wonderful justice minister does not give a sh1t as long as it does not happen on his doorstep.

PS - It could be any TD or public representative and please do not let replies descend into SF bashing and anti-bashing.

Sleepy

It's symptomatic of our soft court system if you ask me. Most of those involved have rap sheets that read like a game of Grand Theft Auto. Scumbags will continue to be scumbags until there's a proper clamp down from the law.

mike65

TBH the only reason this is newsworthy at all is because a TD happened to be in the middle of it. That of course merely highlights how common so called joy-riding is in certain areas of towns and cities.

I guess the little ****s in question might be a little hushed when they discovered how they assulted.

Mike.

gurramok

mike65 wrote:

TBH the only reason this is newsworthy at all is because a TD happened to be in the middle of it. That of course merely highlights how common so called joy-riding is in certain areas of towns and cities.

I guess the little ****s in question might be a little hushed when they discovered how they assulted.

Mike.

Yes it is very common, going on for 20 years passed down from one generation to the next generation.
I found it reprensible that FF voted down on 2 occasions a Labour Bill down would have dealt with a significant factor of the supply of the joyriders cars.
From the deaths of 2 little girls in Clare to deaths of 2 gardai and yet nothing jas been done about it.
These are only the highlighted fraction of the misery these joyriders cause that has been in the news.
How many more have to die ?

Mad Cyril

Sleepy wrote:

It's symptomatic of our soft court system if you ask me. Most of those involved have rap sheets that read like a game of Grand Theft Auto. Scumbags will continue to be scumbags until there's a proper clamp down from the law.

What complete and utter rubbish. The archetypal attitude of the detached conservative. Society is unable to deal with it’s unsavoury elements so, instead of addressing root of the problem, locks it away and hopes it will correct itself. People like your good self are the reason the world is so slow to progress.

Nuttzz

Mad Cyril wrote:

What complete and utter rubbish. The archetypal attitude of the detached conservative. Society is unable to deal with it’s unsavoury elements so, instead of addressing root of the problem, locks it away and hopes it will correct itself. People like your good self are the reason the world is so slow to progress.

so what do you propose then??

Sand

Most people dont commit crime because theyre afraid of being punished. The level of policing required to "pacify" the joyriders is just not going to happen with the level of resources available and the variety of demands upon them. As such the joyriders know theyd be very, very unlucky to get caught, and given the bleeding hearts "ah shure theyre only wee chislers looking for something to do" attitude theyd be even unluckier to get any sort of prison sentence that would act as a deterrent rather than something for them to brag about what hard lads they are.

Until thats rectified theyll keep having a laugh with other peoples cars and other peoples lives. And our Justice minister is hardly cheerleading the joyriders but there is practical limits to what can be done with the budget available. Simply introducing Snotaigh in as Justice minister ( Hes SF/IRAs justice spokesman in the Dail isnt he?) wouldnt suddenly change that reality. Though, realistically, Snotaigh can call upon less conventional policing resources unavailable to democrats like McDowell, so who knows what he could do with access to the Justice ministry?

As for O Snotaigh injury, it couldnt happen to a nicer person. I suppose he can count himself lucky that the joyriders didnt have access to the sort of equipment his election team have or else he'd be in for a serious beating.

cdebru

Sand wrote:

Most people dont commit crime because theyre afraid of being punished. The level of policing required to "pacify" the joyriders is just not going to happen with the level of resources available and the variety of demands upon them. As such the joyriders know theyd be very, very unlucky to get caught, and given the bleeding hearts "ah shure theyre only wee chislers looking for something to do" attitude theyd be even unluckier to get any sort of prison sentence that would act as a deterrent rather than something for them to brag about what hard lads they are.

Until thats rectified theyll keep having a laugh with other peoples cars and other peoples lives. And our Justice minister is hardly cheerleading the joyriders but there is practical limits to what can be done with the budget available. Simply introducing Snotaigh in as Justice minister ( Hes SF/IRAs justice spokesman in the Dail isnt he?) wouldnt suddenly change that reality. Though, realistically, Snotaigh can call upon less conventional policing resources unavailable to democrats like McDowell, so who knows what he could do with access to the Justice ministry?

As for O Snotaigh injury, it couldnt happen to a nicer person. I suppose he can count himself lucky that the joyriders didnt have access to the sort of equipment his election team have or else he'd be in for a serious beating.

and their off

not bad must have been 10 posts before the swipe at the shinners came

and the mispelling of the name so you can get snot into it very mature

ah just checked it was 7

FTA69

I used to live in Cork City myself and such issues are commonplace there as well. I remember counting two stolen cars and a burned out bike in the space of half a kilometre. It is depressing to see thugs like these running down the areas in which they live with such behaviour. I also object to the term "joyrider", it gives the impression of it being some harmless pursuit when in reality it results in the deaths and injuries of innocent people. Young anti-social elements are also the chief terror of people in their own age brackets, whether it be using debts owed to them by youngsters to force them to commit burglaries or random beatings and intimidation outside discos or whatever.

However, Mad Cyril hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that deprivation is the root cause of this behaviour. People do not have genetic programmes that will cause them to turn to crime and anti-social behaviour, they are shaped by their environment. Drugs, poor housing and poverty are all root factors for this behaviour, that trend is evident when one compares the level of activity in say Finglas to Blackrock.

A Dub in Glasgo

cdebru wrote:

and the mispelling of the name so you can get snot into it very mature

and taig

Anyway, 'joyriding' has been a scourge (for some) for decades and the authorites do not seem to have got to grips with it at all. I remember the weekly rally down Landen Road in Ballyfermot when I was staying with my Grandparents during the '70s and all the carry on in Ballymun with stolen cars being driven all over the place when I was growing up there.

Sand

and their off

Hey Snotaigh is what turns this from page 11 to page 2 news. The idea of him taking a law and order stance is laughable. And as for the punch he got, its no worse than his election team were up to. If anything, the joyriders were dealing with an anti-social element in the absence of acceptable policing. Now of course, I condemn utterly all acts of this nature, regardless of who carries them out, but we need to address the reasons why this sort of thing occurs.

also object to the term "joyrider", it gives the impression of it being some harmless pursuit when in reality it results in the deaths and injuries of innocent people.

I object to the term freedom fighter for similar reasons but what can you do? Its a term thats gone into popular usage regardless of applicability. Deathrider just doesnt have the same ring to it.

sceptre

FTA69 wrote:

I also object to the term "joyrider", it gives the impression of it being some harmless pursuit when in reality it results in the deaths and injuries of innocent people.

Indeed but that awful term "deathrider" doesn't exactly reflect the intention of them that are hotwiring cars. And while deprivation is a factor obviously there are thousands of people (the majority in fact) who grow up in deprived areas with parents who unfortunately don't have two pennies to put into a bag to see if they'll breed who don't get the urge to hotwire cars every weekend. Assuming for the sake of simplicity that the drivers were underage, if their parents don't know where their kids are and what they're doing, they may well be bad parents. If they don't want to know, they're definitely bad parents.

As for the comments re content, you can all read this post from another thread and apply it here (in other words, apply it here minus the reporting the post bit - reporting the above post would get wolf-crying boy imprinted on my brain faster than the speed of a zipping whimper). Most of you are over 12 and can type. Personally I'd tend to believe that modifying someone's name tends to detract from a possibly valid argument that one might make (except possibly referring to Gerry Adams as Grizzly as that's actually funny) so if people do it, why not let them at it rather than bouncing that rattle off the walls.

jbkenn

FTA69 wrote:

However, Mad Cyril hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that deprivation is the root cause of this behaviour. People do not have genetic programmes that will cause them to turn to crime and anti-social behaviour, they are shaped by their environment. Drugs, poor housing and poverty are all root factors for this behaviour, that trend is evident when one compares the level of activity in say Finglas to Blackrock.

Where is the deprevation you talk about? poor housing? define poor housing, no running water? how many houses in urban areas have no running water? outside toilets? how many house have outside toilets?, poverty, someone tell me where it is. Drugs, fine, use drugs if you want to, but dont blame the above, how about some personal responsibility, and, this extends to the Anabells of this world as well, anything else, just lame excuses.

jbkenn

vector

FTA69 wrote:

...People do not have genetic programmes that will cause them to turn to crime and anti-social behaviour, they are shaped by their environment...

ah the classic "nature vs nurture" chestnut

Sand

I saw something in the Sunday World regarding this that would put this all on its head. They claim that O Snodaigh assaulted a 22 year old driver ( driving his own car, not a stolen one), smashing his window and punching *him* in the face. The victim went to hospital and made a complaint to Gardai but later withdrew the statement after O Snodaighs "election workers" threatened him.

No names/facts are mentioned apart from O Snodaighs - It'll be interesting to see if he sues - but if it is true it will make the mystery of O Snodaigh praising the Gardai all the more interesting. Afterall, SF/IRA have been targeting the Gardai for the PSNI treatement lately, with one of their councillors recently labeling them a disgraced force in need of reform if I recall correctly.

AmenToThat

Sand wrote:

I saw something in the Sunday World regarding this that would put this all on its head. They claim that O Snodaigh assaulted a 22 year old driver ( driving his own car, not a stolen one), smashing his window and punching *him* in the face. The victim went to hospital and made a complaint to Gardai but later withdrew the statement after O Snodaighs "election workers" threatened him.

No names/facts are mentioned apart from O Snodaighs - It'll be interesting to see if he sues - but if it is true it will make the mystery of O Snodaigh praising the Gardai all the more interesting. Afterall, SF/IRA have been targeting the Gardai for the PSNI treatement lately, with one of their councillors recently labeling them a disgraced force in need of reform if I recall correctly.

Interesting that you can take a story by the SUNDAY WORLD at face value so easily but in other threads will debate at length the validity of media sources.................

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

gurramok

Despite the fact that i appealed for it not to decend into rights and wrongs of SF.
Anyway, it seems to be one mans word against the other , witnesses i guess would be the deciding factor.

Sand

Interesting that you can take a story by the SUNDAY WORLD at face value so easily but in other threads will debate at length the validity of media sources.................

Hey, it was me who raised the fact that the article is sparse on verifiable details. Im sure O Snodaigh will boost SF/IRAs recently depleted earnings with a successful lawsuit. Or not. Hed have to prove that being called a common thug would lower his standing in the eyes of his peers. Given his peers are in jail for being common thugs, he wouldnt have much a case. At least thats the standard exscuse.

Despite the fact that i appealed for it not to decend into rights and wrongs of SF.

Pffft, cry me a ****ing river, half the article you cited was O Snodaigh, fighting crime by night, hero of the common man. The same man whose close associates are in jail for being an IRA punishment gang. Meanwhile you compare his record to the Justice Minister negatively!?! If you dont want O Snodaighs character to be involved in a debate about joyriding, then start a thread about joyriding, not about O Snodaigh "allegedly" out there confronting joyriders, and implying how hes so much better at dealing with it than the Justice Minister.

Anyway, it seems to be one mans word against the other , witnesses i guess would be the deciding factor.

Threats tend to be the deciding factor where SF/IRA are involved apparently.

A Dub in Glasgo

Sand wrote:

. Hed have to prove that being called a common thug would lower his standing in the eyes of his peers. Given his peers are in jail for being common thugs, he wouldnt have much a case. At least thats the standard exscuse.

Another way of looking at it is the fact that his peers are in Leinster House. I am not sure that will help him much in court though

cdebru

Sand wrote:

I saw something in the Sunday World regarding this that would put this all on its head. They claim that O Snodaigh assaulted a 22 year old driver ( driving his own car, not a stolen one), smashing his window and punching *him* in the face. The victim went to hospital and made a complaint to Gardai but later withdrew the statement after O Snodaighs "election workers" threatened him.

No names/facts are mentioned apart from O Snodaighs - It'll be interesting to see if he sues - but if it is true it will make the mystery of O Snodaigh praising the Gardai all the more interesting. Afterall, SF/IRA have been targeting the Gardai for the PSNI treatement lately, with one of their councillors recently labeling them a disgraced force in need of reform if I recall correctly.

i saw that article i tought they went very small on it i would have imagined they would have splashed it on the front page if they had any real evidence to back it up

Nuttzz

The evening hearld carried the same story today, is that any better


in my book no...

gurramok

Sand wrote:

Pffft, cry me a ****ing river, half the article you cited was O Snodaigh, fighting crime by night, hero of the common man. The same man whose close associates are in jail for being an IRA punishment gang. Meanwhile you compare his record to the Justice Minister negatively!?! If you dont want O Snodaighs character to be involved in a debate about joyriding, then start a thread about joyriding, not about O Snodaigh "allegedly" out there confronting joyriders, and implying how hes so much better at dealing with it than the Justice Minister.
.

The article in question is from breakingnews.ie, if you have issues with them glorifying the TD, take it up with them.

I never compared the record of the TD to Justice Minister, i gave out about the tolerance of joyriding.
Where and why should this thread be about O'Snodaigh exclusively ?
Please quote where i say where O'Snodaigh is better than confronting joyriders than Justice Minister, i never said a word about O'Snodaigh performance in confronting joyriders.
It is you that starting rabbitting on about the wrongs of SF and bringing it off-topic
Your post is wrong.

[ Daithí ]

Don't worry gurramok. Certain people use every possible opportunity to bash Sinn Féin or the IRA. ¬_¬

I personally think what happened is a disgrace. I hope that every joyrider gets in a horrible accident with a lamp post or ridiculously placed cliff. It's the only way they'll learn.

Sand

The article in question is from breakingnews.ie, if you have issues with them glorifying the TD, take it up with them.

Ive no problem with the article itself, though the acocunt of events is apprently disputed now. My problem is you slipping this article in as "Heres something that happened to O Snodaigh as he was out fighting crime by night- now lets talk about joyriding, and no one talk about O Snodaigh - by the way, the Justice Minister obviously doesnt give a toss"

Are you telling me you couldnt find a starting point for a discussion on joyriding that didnt involve O Snodaigh? If you make what happens to O Snodaigh the starter for your thread then yes, it is perfectly on topic to discuss him. As it was perfectly valid to mention the violence against women by SF/IRA when O Snodaigh tried to take the moral high ground on *that* issue. And as it was perfectly valid to mention the human rights record of SF/IRA when O Snodaigh tried to talk the moral high ground on human rights training for the *real* Army.

For as long as O Snodaigh and co are part of terrorist movement, then I wont treat them like theyre not part of a terrorist movement. O Snodaigh is not just " any TD". If you dont want them discussed, then dont make them the topic of your threads. End of.

AmenToThat

Sand wrote:

For as long as O Snodaigh and co are part of terrorist movement, then I wont treat them like theyre not part of a terrorist movement. O Snodaigh is not just " any TD". If you dont want them discussed, then dont make them the topic of your threads. End of.

The problem with this and others threads is that you and a few others who frequent this web site reduce to threads to mindless rants and petty name calling that is counter productive and will I believe eventually lead people to stop posting here altogether as any attempt at discussion (of certain topics) is rendered pointless.

Grow up.

gurramok

Sand, you mentioned O'Snodaigh by name and your hatred of the man.
I mentioned a TD, any TD or public rep it could of happened to, a TD is a TD no matter if you like them or not. i did not mention O'Snodaigh by name in my initial post.

I dont like McDowell as he is all talk and no action on an issue like crime, joyriding for example.
Is the Justice Minister not allowed to be criticised at all ?

Amen, your right, its beginning to become pointless posting here in politics as the likes of Sand take threads off-topic at will. I asked that pro and anti- SF sentiments be kept out but alas it was ignored.

ionapaul

I am not sure if I agree, gurramok. In a perfect world, perhaps the messenger can be separated from the message, and convicted child-rapists can lecture the rest of us on observing the speed limits and tax-dodgers can spout off about putting our rubbish in the bin rather than on the ground - however, in reality many of us simply cannot do this and find anything SF representatives have to say on the subject of fighting crime galling and indeed hypocritical.

Every thread discussing SF or SF initiatives will probably end up the same here, for good or bad.

Spacedog

What I don't get is that car manufacturers haven't been able to build cars that can't be broken into and driven off by small boys, all you need to steal most cars is a rock and a clothes hanger, car companies should share responsability as they design their cars to be easily stolen and hate peaceloving society, it's a commonly known fact that Henry Ford ate babies too.