New IRA Statement - IRA offer to shoot man's killers

Sparks

Dub13 wrote:

Mary-Lou McDonald is not a member of the IRA.....

Prove it.
Got a list of IRA members handy, do you?

Squaletto

A vote for FF, FG, Labour and the PDs is a vote to prolong the violence in the North of your country. Not to mention the corruption that seeps from the core of those pseudo political organisations. People who vote for them should hang their heads in shame and lie under the proverbial bed of Sf bashing where they would find the thugs responsible for Mc Cartney's murder and having one major factor in common i.e the fear of the awaking of republicanism once again,

Shame on you, and all we can hope is that the anti republican rabble on this forum will grasp the chance to atain peace in Ireland by seeing the light and vote SF before all is lost.

Sogni d'oro amici.

Sparks

A vote for FF, FG, Labour and the PDs is a vote to prolong the violence in the North of your country.

Nice threat.

TheMonster

So the IRA believe they are now above the law and have the powers to dish out justice, what happened "the right to a fair trial". I thought the days of Kangaroo courts were gone.

And its no good spouting out about a mandate from the people, the mandate has been given to Sinn Fein and we all know this is totally different organization :rolleyes: . The IRA have never been given a mandate for anything, they have always felt they are above the law and have now decided they will dish out the law. Why not pass over the names to the relevant authorities, that wouldn't be good PR and might affect the willingness of new members to join (They rat on their own). Instead they will police by fear - make others afraid to do something similar and at the same time try and save face in public, but the public aint having any of it.

What kind of country would this place be if that shower ever got into power, forget all about the democracy and laws and rule by way of fear. Its amazing they can play the civil rights cards for their members in Colombia but are willing to forgoe all laws when they see fit. Even the colombians had a public trial.

ionapaul

Squaletto wrote:

A vote for FF, FG, Labour and the PDs is a vote to prolong the violence in the North of your country. Not to mention the corruption that seeps from the core of those pseudo political organisations. People who vote for them should hang their heads in shame and lie under the proverbial bed of Sf bashing where they would find the thugs responsible for Mc Cartney's murder and having one major factor in common i.e the fear of the awaking of republicanism once again,

Shame on you, and all we can hope is that the anti republican rabble on this forum will grasp the chance to atain peace in Ireland by seeing the light and vote SF before all is lost.

Sogni d'oro amici.

I'm always amazed at the wonderful clarity and objectivity you folk residing in sunny foreign climes bring to our debates on SF and their 'cousins' in the IRA. Obviously we living here can't see it and it takes some time away from Ireland to really understand what is going on and what needs done - either that or there's something in the water in Italy, Louisianna, Glasgow and that other far, foreign land, Free West Waterford!

OfflerCrocGod

Squaletto wrote:

A vote for FF, FG, Labour and the PDs is a vote to prolong the violence in the North of your country. Not to mention the corruption that seeps from the core of those pseudo political organisations. People who vote for them should hang their heads in shame and lie under the proverbial bed of Sf bashing where they would find the thugs responsible for Mc Cartney's murder and having one major factor in common i.e the fear of the awaking of republicanism once again,

Shame on you, and all we can hope is that the anti republican rabble on this forum will grasp the chance to atain peace in Ireland by seeing the light and vote SF before all is lost.

Sogni d'oro amici.

Sei matto?

FTA69

The fact is this - the protestants invaded Ireland beginning in 1688 and remain an occupying force in the region.

Sorry now, but I'd hope you don't claim to be a Republican judging by that vitriol above. For your information the Plantaion of Ulster took place in 1609, besides, what does that matter today? Irish Protestants, whether north or south, are not "occupiers" they are people who live in Ireland and who claim ancestry from Ireland back as far as 400 years. The Protestant community forms about 20% of the Irish population, they are an integral part of our nation. Republicanism is about creating a unitary state where as the Proclamation states; "all children of the nation are cherished equally". Irishness is not confined to the green tradition but to all those who make up this nation, your sentiments are simply a reverse of the repressive and reactionary position which was adopted by right-wing Unionists in the 6 Counties for so long.

FTA69

Sparks wrote:

Prove it.
Got a list of IRA members handy, do you?

No but I assume you have because you are the one eagerly listing out alledged members.

Sparks

FTA69 wrote:

No but I assume you have because you are the one eagerly listing out alledged members.

No, I'm the one noting that she's in an organisation with very tight ties to the provos, and that you can't prove you're not in the provos unless you have a list of everyone who is.

[ Daithí ]

true wrote:

LOL LOL. This is the sort of unfounded subjective tripe that was used to justify Enniskillem , Kingsmill, Le Mons, Black Friday , Warrington etc.

Actually, AmenToThat is right.

Ever read "The Dirty War" by Martin Dillon? Perhaps you should.

And we all know you didn't actually "LOL" twice, so why pretend you did? To make AmenToThat feel bad? Good luck. :rolleyes:

FTA69

Sparks wrote:

No, I'm the one noting that she's in an organisation with very tight ties to the provos, and that you can't prove you're not in the provos unless you have a list of everyone who is.

So the essence of your post is that unless one has a list of IRA members they cannot definitively say they are not an IRA member? That is a warped logic to say the least.

Sand

So the essence of your post is that unless one has a list of IRA members they cannot definitively say they are not an IRA member? That is a warped logic to say the least.

The downside of hanging out with, supporting and recruiting from (at the very very least) a terrorist group. People tend to assume youre one and the same group. Mary Lou McDonald is very comftable with hanging out with some of the cruelest murderers in modern British/Irish history and representing their views, praising men who died on Nazi U boats, buried in Nazi banners. One wonders what the difference is between an IRA member and a SF member these days, given the dual membership common to the "movement".

Statements like this by SF/IRA show them to stuck in a timewarp. The family have repeatedly restated that they want the PSNI to investigate and for justice to be served in the open. The SF/IRA offers to shoot some unimportant scapegoats it has picked on in some darkened alley.

As far as the McCartneys and the neighbours who have supported them are concerned, the "war" is over and its time to build a new NI. This statement shows that as far as SF/IRA are concerned, this is only a tactical pause in the "war" and the same conditions remain in play.

Politically this was the stupidest response SF/IRA could make. They have admitted they know - or at least have evidence - of who was involved, and who did what. They have refused the families demand to pass this information along to the police, and instead have offered to commit another crime - and obvious breach of the ceasefire - instead. SF/IRA for all their talk through Grizzly and his sidekick clown are the ones who are standing in the way of justice being done.

How anyone can vote for them, whilst not seeing the irony when they bleat about democratic mandate is beyond me.

Mercury_Tilt

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mycroft

Squaletto wrote:

A vote for FF, FG, Labour and the PDs is a vote to prolong the violence in the North of your country.

Is that a fact or opinion?

If it's fact I'd like to to back it up with statistics, and figures and links and arguments, such as photos of YFG training to go on guriella raids in Armagh.

If it's opinion I'd like you to quanitfy it, otherwise I'll tell you're talking out of your hole.

Cork

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I actually voted as well for these people. My motivation was to encourage them to use 100% democratic means and to become 100% legit.

In fairness - both governments gave them every encouragement.

The provisional movement planned and plotted the NI bank raid at a time of political negottaition.

Punishment beatings re-commenced after political talks callasped.

I believe the IRA has to vanush. Their guns should never be used as bargaining chips.

SF is a joke. They failed to condemn the IRA for over 30 years because they did not want to get into the politics of condemnation.

Last week - Michael McDowell was condemned a plently at their Ard Fheis.

SF are hypocrites. We had a Shinner on the news last night - stating the IRA statement was positive.

Fair play to people lile the McCarthy sisters and Anne McCabe for exposing the likes of SF and their buddies in the IRA.

This country owes them a debt.


As for SF/IRA?

I honestly believe it is up to the electorate in NI to send these sorts a signal.

And It is up to the police North nad south to tackle IRA criminality.


I have had enough of excuses for Adams, Ferris and McGuinness.

THe IRA have not gone away alright.

mycroft

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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Nope, the IRA went to the Mc Carthy sisters and there was a five hour meeting. Five hours is a long time, and I'm hard pressed to not believe that the IRA wouldn't have spent a chunk of the time actively encouraging the family to endorse the shooting.

If the family endorsed the shooting, the IRA would recover the mandate of the community, they could say this was the family and the communties decision we enforced it. By rejecting the offer the family rejected the mandate, and said that IRA violence was not law enforcement in the community

The IRA have been able to operate because they have the express approval of parts of communties, and the implied support of the mass of the community (no one wants to draw notice to themselves in front of the RA) The Mc Carthy murder is demostrating that in many respects their "support" is nothing more than communties cowed and terrified of "IRA justice" and they haven't got the support base. No support base, no groups of rioting yobs to protect them from PSNI raids, no safe houses, no implied silence.

The IRA exist because the communities, need, tolererate, and fear them (not necessarily in that order). A strong non secterian police force and an independent ombudsman, removes the need. The tolerance and fear is ebbing as well.

Mercury_Tilt

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mycroft

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

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Yeah emphasis on past the rest of us looking to the future, and the behaviour of terrorist groups ten years/twenty years ago cannot be excepted today, or in the future.

Squaletto

mycroft wrote:

Is that a fact or opinion?

If it's fact I'd like to to back it up with statistics, and figures and links and arguments, such as photos of YFG training to go on guriella raids in Armagh.

If it's opinion I'd like you to quanitfy it, otherwise I'll tell you're talking out of your hole.

Hi Mycroft,
My opinion is as good as the next person's including your own. If you don't like my opinion then try and muzzle me like the political parties did with SF in Ireland in the 1970's and 1980's. Section 31!! Surely another example of the lovers of peace i.e FF, FG, Labour and the PD's. I restate that FF, FG , Labour (joke) and the PDs are corrupt peace process haters out to rob the working classes of Ireland, my opinion that is.
You wanted a photo of YFG in Guerilla attire, follow this link!

http://images.google.it/imgres?imgurl=http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/jan2004/file0001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php%3Fstory_id%3D62865%26time_posted_upper_limit%3D1073365200%26time_posted_lower_limit%3D1073278800&h=129&w=200&sz=13&tbnid=5QmG0dAeiW0J:&tbnh=63&tbnw=98&start=12&prev=/images%3Fq%3Deoin%2Bo%2Bduffy%2B%26hl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG
Ciao for now
Ps, the photos are a little disturbing.

mycroft

Squaletto wrote:

Hi Mycroft,
My opinion is as good as the next person's including your own. If you don't like my opinion then try and muzzle me like the political parties did with SF in Ireland in the 1970's and 1980's. Section 31!! Surely another example of the lovers of peace i.e FF, FG, Labour and the PD's. I restate that FF, FG , Labour (joke) and the PDs are corrupt peace process haters out to rob the working classes of Ireland, my opinion that is.
You wanted a photo of YFG in Guerilla attire, follow this link!

You stated;

A vote for FF, FG, Labour and the PDs is a vote to prolong the violence in the North of your country.

How will a vote for these parties prolong violence?

MT

A shocking statement but then can we really be surprised?

What I would love to hear is comment on this lastest development from the Bring Them Home campaign. How Sinn Féin and their apologists imagine they can maintain any sort of consistency by condemning Columbian justice on the one hand while sustaining a close association with an organisation that sees no difficulty in assuming the role of judge, jury and executioner is trully beyond me.

Where these men given a fair trial? Was there a jury? How was it selected? What were the rules of evidence? Was the basic right of habeus corpus employed? Were the men allowed to cross examine their accusers? Where they given access to all the evidence presented by the 'prosecution'? Was the judge independent and impartial? Finally, having supposedly been found guilty will these men have the option of appeal?

Are trials held in secret part of what Sinn Féin envisage when they talk of real justice and human rights?

As the supposed 'authority' in this matter will the IRA's 'justice' system ever be openned up to public scrutiny? Surely Sinn Féin should add the deplorable proceedings of this secretive kangaroo court to the list of public inquiries they wish to see established.

Or does this whole sordid eppisode in truth demonstrate that Sinn Féin only considers it necessary to examine the legal systems of Britain, the Irish Republic, Columbia etc. while offering no comment on the somewhat lacking judicial safequards of the Republican Movement's armed wing?

Just imagine if the Gardai took suspects off, tried them in secret and having found them 'guilty' pronounced and carried out the death penalty as punishment.

mycroft

MT wrote:

What I would love to hear is comment on this lastest development from the Bring Them Home campaign. How Sinn Féin and their apologists imagine they can maintain any sort of consistency by condemning Columbian justice on the one hand while sustaining a close association with an organisation that sees no difficulty in assuming the role of judge, jury and executioner is trully beyond me.
.

Yeah speaking of which, where are the columbian three?

FTA69 was proclaiming they would be making a glorious victorious homecoming around christmas, a few months back.

Are they in some Cuban hotel, recieving weekly telegrams saying.

STOP. DON'T COME HOME STOP. SITUATION STILL A LITTLE CRAZY STOP ENJOY THE MOCHETOS STOP

cdebru

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I don't think that the IRA have the option to brass neck it out

taken this case in conjunction with the jailing of bart fisher for the stabbing to death of a young man in derry which was part of a row over another young man that fisher appears to have been involved in the killing of
it seems the IRA has recruited a bunch of thugs some of whom were to young to have been involved in the armed struggle and some like bart fisher who seem to have been unwilling to fight the brits but have no problem beating and stabbing young men from their own neighbourhood
ceasefire soldiers these thugs seem to believe that they can act as they please and kill or maim anyone who crosses them and use their membership of the IRA as cover
the closest parrallel i can find is the paedophiles in the catholic church those men became priests because it gave them cover to carry out their abuse of children not because they haad any religous calling when the authorities in the church became aware of their behaviour what did they do cover for them not because they were paedophiles as well (altough that may have been the case in some instances) but out of some misguided sense of loyalty to a fellow priest
the leadership of the IRA has been covering for these thugs and physcopaths who have used the power that membership of the IRA gave them not to further the republican cause but to allow them to kill maim intimidate terrorise the community they were alledgedly meant to protect. it is time that the IRA realised that their loyalty should be to the people not to commom criminals thugs and hoods who have achieved what succesive british governments tried and failed to do criminalise the republican movement

it is time for the IRA to disband and disarm before any further damage is done to the republican movement

A Dub in Glasgo

Totally agree with that analysis

Slutmonkey57b

Some good points cdebru but I don't think it covers all of the IRA's problems in this case. There is certainly an argument that enrolling people who are too young to have experienced the troubles has backfired on them, the events of the past few weeks has served to expose things that have long been suspected of the IRA but that SF or the IRA have successfully managed to spin their way out of. The analogy of the catholic church certainly parallels, although I think the church's culpability stretches well beyond "misguided support" in that case. The IRA's problem here is not that it might have rogue members who have been misguidedly covered for, but that the actions of those members in the past few years have no covering story for them. While in the past the IRA could rattle on about "community policing" or the bigoted/uninterested RUC, but that cover has been slowly stripped away over the past few years.

The situation has now been exposed for what it is - that the beatings, killings, and intimidation have continued long after the reasons that were pushed forward for excusing them have gone. And that the IRA as an organisation sees nothing wrong in what it has been doing inside its own community. It has been exposed not as the "proctector" but as the aggressor that it really is.

Slutmonkey57b

mycroft brought up a good point I missed as well - this really does tear to shreds the arguments of the "bring them home" lot. I'ts been very quiet on that front since the birdwatchers skipped bail...

cdebru

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Some good points cdebru but I don't think it covers all of the IRA's problems in this case. There is certainly an argument that enrolling people who are too young to have experienced the troubles has backfired on them, the events of the past few weeks has served to expose things that have long been suspected of the IRA but that SF or the IRA have successfully managed to spin their way out of. The analogy of the catholic church certainly parallels, although I think the church's culpability stretches well beyond "misguided support" in that case. The IRA's problem here is not that it might have rogue members who have been misguidedly covered for, but that the actions of those members in the past few years have no covering story for them. While in the past the IRA could rattle on about "community policing" or the bigoted/uninterested RUC, but that cover has been slowly stripped away over the past few years.

The situation has now been exposed for what it is - that the beatings, killings, and intimidation have continued long after the reasons that were pushed forward for excusing them have gone. And that the IRA as an organisation sees nothing wrong in what it has been doing inside its own community. It has been exposed not as the "proctector" but as the aggressor that it really is.

i don't think the age of the people is the only problem bart fisher is 43 i believe the problem is that people who should not have been allowed into the IRA were allowed in
people who if the armed struggle kicked off again tomorrow would be gone

the IRA seems to believe or at least has acted in a manner that its loyalty is to its members not to the community that they were supposed to be protecting
the IRA has alledgedly told the family of james mcginley that bart fisher is a member of the IRA and is under their protection
bart fisher has been moved onto the republican landing in maghabery prison much to the dismay of the republican prisoners in the prison
he is a thug and a common criminal the killings he was involved in have no political motivation
the republican leadership need to realise that these people are a millstone around the neck not just of the IRA but of the republican cause
there is no point in offering to shoot these people after they have murdered someone and only because the family have created a media storm

while at the same time offering protection and throwing parties for a thug like bart fisher

I agree with you to some extent it seems that the IRA turned to "community policing" as something to keep its volunteers busy while the peace process progressed
i also believe that a lot of the risk of being an IRA volunteer evaporated when the ceasefire started and as such alot of the wrong type of people were attracted to the IRA
little risk throw your weight around respect or fear from people.
I suspect that the policing issues have not been fully resolved yet but undoubtedly the situation has improved somewhat and people are getting increasingly tired and frustrated at having to cow down to these thugs who use the name of the IRA to fulfill their egotistical physcopathic desires

Iam not saying everyone in the IRA is like this but those that are not need to rid themselves of that element straight awayand disassociate themselves from the likes of bart fisher and then set about disbanding the organisation and putting its arms beyond use before anymore damage is done

true

cdebru wrote:

i don't think the age of the people is the only problem bart fisher is 43 i believe the problem is that people who should not have been allowed into the IRA were allowed in people who if the armed struggle kicked off again tomorrow would be gone

By inference the people who were "allowed in " to the IRA before the ceasefire were preferrable. What kind of people were they ? Were they people who went out and bombed men , women and kids by any chance ?

cdebru wrote:

bart fisher has been moved onto the republican landing in maghabery prison much to the dismay of the republican prisoners in the prison
he is a thug and a common criminal the killings he was involved in have no political motivation
I agree with you to some extent it seems that the IRA turned to "community policing" as something to keep its volunteers busy while the peace process progressed

Oh, and the IRA are / were not thugs at all ? I think most "common criminals" have not committed the crimes the IRA have, yet you think the IRA are morally superior to "common criminals "

cdebru wrote:

i also believe that a lot of the risk of being an IRA volunteer evaporated when the ceasefire started and as such alot of the wrong type of people were attracted to the IRA
little risk throw your weight around respect or fear from people.
I suspect that the policing issues have not been fully resolved yet but undoubtedly the situation has improved somewhat and people are getting increasingly tired and frustrated at having to cow down to these thugs who use the name of the IRA to fulfill their egotistical physcopathic desires

Why not immediately disband and disarm so?

Slutmonkey57b

The difference between "new" and "previous" members I think is not so much that one group is more controllable or more disciplined than the other, but that the "old" PIRA members had better opportunities to cover up their more unsavoury activities. The threatenings, beatings, killings and intimidation are not new things, but now they can't be covered up or glossed over like they were before.

Cork

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

mycroft brought up a good point I missed as well - this really does tear to shreds the arguments of the "bring them home" lot. I'ts been very quiet on that front since the birdwatchers skipped bail...

If only the IRA could disappear like these 3 fugitives.

There have been more sightings of Elvis.

The threatenings, beatings, killings and intimidation are not new things, but now they can't be covered up or glossed over like they were before.

I feel that people now have courage to stand up to thugs where as before communities were under the thumbs of these thugs.