Quantity over Quality???

Highlander

Watching the Chelsea V Barcelona game last night on ITV, the commentator made a good point about how Chelsea had played 49 games this season versus Barcelona's 40 and how Barcelona had a 19 day winter break and during this period Chelsea had played 5 games.

So my point is this, is the hectic English football schedule to the detriment of the leading English clubs while in European competition. What with the Carling Cup, FA Cup and a 22 team Premier division are there too many matches??

Is there still a need for a 22 team Premier division when there are only 3/4 serious contenders every year for the title, another 6/7 fight out over Uefa cup spots and mid table respectibilty and the rest scrambling to avoid relegation. Do the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal etc need to be competing in relegation battles with say West Brom for example while engaged in the latter stages of European competion??

Anybody any idea!!!

MrJoeSoap

Well if you didnt notice Chelsea actually won last night so I wouldn't say that its that much of a problem. Also there are only 20 teams in the Premiership.

A Dub in Glasgo

Highlander wrote:

Is there still a need for a 22 team Premier division when there are only 3/4 serious contenders

Ever since the EPL was created, there has only been 2 serious contenders per season with some seasons only 1. This season, there where 3 contenders but that only lasted until mid point when Chelsea became the only serious contender.


The detriment of English football in the Champions League has always been quality.

Highlander

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Well if you didnt notice Chelsea actually won last night so I wouldn't say that its that much of a problem. Also there are only 20 teams in the Premiership.

stand corrected on number of teams and yes Chelsea did win though my point was made about all English teams and not just Chelsea in particular.

pickarooney

The Italian league was expanded this year and Milan/Juve have currently played the same amount of matches as Chelsea, with no obvious detriment to the quality of their play, although admittedly Juve are beginning to look a little stretched having to field top sides on two fronts. The domestic cups probably make more of a difference, as Italians and (I think) Spanish sides only have one cup and mostly play their reserves in it as they don't actually have reserve leagues.

Of course Chelsea and Arsenal should need to be competing in relegation battles with the smaller teams. A good side is one who can beat the minnows consistently while mixing it with the giants, one which can find the desire to go out and scrape a 1-0 victory in a gale-force wind at the Hawthorns and not just get geared up for Milan and Real Madrid. Besides, can you imagine the detrimental effect on the struggling clubs if they longer had visits from Manchester United and Liverpool to boost their coffers?

p.pete

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Well if you didnt notice Chelsea actually won last night so I wouldn't say that its that much of a problem.

Lol, I was going to say that too
Also remember though that Man United lost to Milan and Arsenal aren't looking too healthy against Bayern who I think they should beat easily.

MrJoeSoap

Well assuming the first leg scores stand at the end of tonight, Chelsea and Liverpool go through and Arsenal and United are out, similarly Real Madrid go through and Barcelona go out, Milan and Inter go through and Juventus go out, then theres the three others.

I'd say the rest of the competition is fairly well proportioned between the European nations, with 2 English and Italian clubs, and 1 from each of Spain, Holland, France, Germany. Obviously things may change as the remaining results unfold but I don't think any one league has any advantage over another when it comes to European games.

You could argue that teams who play more games become fatigued, but on the other hand you could argue that they get to know each others game more, and develop a team spirit.

smuckers

At one stage Clive Tyldesley said Jesper Gudjohnsen, its not the first time Clive's made a blunder with names, though it doesn't match David Pleat mistaking Christian Vieri for Patrick Viera.

Big Ears

smuckers wrote:

At one stage Clive Tyldesley said Jesper Gudjohnsen, its not the first time Clive's made a blunder with names

to be fair he was probably dreaming about Solskjaer sticking the ball into the back of a Bayern Munich net and so wasn't able to think about the actual match that was going on .

MrJoeSoap

Big Ears wrote:

to be fair he was probably dreaming about Solskjaer sticking the ball into the back of a Bayern Munich net and so wasn't able to think about the actual match that was going on .

lol,

thejollyrodger

So my point is this, is the hectic English football schedule to the detriment of the leading English clubs while in European competition

No, its just that the standard in English football is a lot lower.

The continetial sides are more tatically developed, keep the ball longer, patient, and more calcutating (italy anyway). The amount of times English clubs have won the champions league or equilivant highlights the gulf

MrJoeSoap

thejollyrodger wrote:

No, its just that the standard in English football is a lot lower.

In terms of the past I would agree with you, but these days I think English football is every bit as good as Spanish or Italian. It will be interesting to see if Real Madrid get drawn against an English club if they get through.

growler

heard a guy on sky sports last night saying that since the gulf between the top 2/3 in the premiership was so great that the Champions League should just be turned into a proper Euro Super League, which although slightly appealing from a Chelsea viewpoint , would be no fun in the long run, as pickarooney says you have to play the those fighting relegation battles on cold wet days to prove your worth as premiership winners. It makes it all the more interesting.

A lot of clubs do use the Carling Cup and early FA cup rounds to blood their younger players.

thejollyrodger

I like the whole idea of the CHAMPIONS league. I.E its the top clubs in each league who have won everything in their home country and are hungry for something bigger. When they play against each other each match is really meaningful and the quality of football is brilliant.

there are a lot of meaningless matches in the Priemership, and if there was a european league, the quality of football might decline. my .02 cents

growler

you'd also get very few supporters travelling away to games, which would ruin the atmosphere for a lot of games.

and what happens when you get relegated from the Super-League, who makes way back in your home country?

Would be hard ot make it work, the only reason to do it would be to get more money out of us fans

PHB

The only reason, I can think of one more little reason.
We'd get to see matches like Chelsea vs. Barca, Juve vs. Real, Utd vs Milan a lot more.
This is the peak of the footballing year so far in terms of entertainment, and Man Utd playing West Brom is certainly unappealing.
However i think its just that the weaker teams in the premiership are weaker this year, and I think next year Wigan or Sunderland won't be such walkovers.

That said, in the long term, its better for the premiership to, while perhaps bringing it down to 18(i dont like the idea of two prem matchs being played in a week unless at Christmass) it would be detrimental to english football as a whole.
On the other hand, if you had a league of say, 14.
You would have clubs liek Newcaslte in the lower division, and while there would be a difference, it'd be cool to have a second league which 'minor' teams could win imo.
I think whats needed is more time in the year

Jivin Turkey

The idea of a Euro superleague is great in theory, but in practice, you will get the same minnow vs giant battles.

How often do one of the traditional "big teams" chronically underperform in a season? Take Barca from the other year. Real Madrid every other year. Depor this year. Valencia this year. Inter every other year. Juve every now and again. Chelsea and Arsenal are never really that consistent.

These underperformers will just get pulverised by the bigger teams on form, and it will be just the same scenario with the same scoreline only substituting WBA for <insert big team here>.

David19

Jivin Turkey wrote:

The idea of a Euro superleague is great in theory, but in practice, you will get the same minnow vs giant battles.

How often do one of the traditional "big teams" chronically underperform in a season? Take Barca from the other year. Real Madrid every other year. Depor this year. Valencia this year. Inter every other year. Juve every now and again. Chelsea and Arsenal are never really that consistent.

These underperformers will just get pulverised by the bigger teams on form, and it will be just the same scenario with the same scoreline only substituting WBA for <insert big team here>.

An underperforming madrid side is a lot better than a good west brom side. It would be a lot tighter than you say. Not many of the top teams ever get "pulverised" in europe. They might lose but its usually much more competitive. The bigger teams would also be able to regain form quicker than a west brom.

thejollyrodger

But once it becomes a league that clubs will be facing each other week in week out, its just a war of attrition. Take for instance Liverpool, they were playing terriblly against Newcastle etc but they all raised their game for the match last night. If they were in a league I doubt the quality of football would be to the same standard. The same applies for most teams, they all raise their game for the special champions league matches

PHB

I just think, if you took the last 8 of the competition now.
And played them in a league oevr the course of the year, it would be an unreal league which would be amazing to watch.
Similarily, if you took the previous 8, it would be amazing to watch.
then if you too the next 8, and next 8 again.

You could have 4 top leagues, all of which would be followed by people, and you'd have 14 games a season in the league, similar to the amount you play now.

Then you can have the UEFA cup in the background.

That would be absolutely amazing imo.

Imagine a league with the following teams:
Top 2 Spanish teams
Top 2 English teams
Top 2 Italian teams
Top French team
Top Dutch team
Top German team

That's 9 I Know, but what a league it would be
Next year it would be:(going on current position)

Barca
Real
CHelsea
Utd
MIlan
Juve
Lyon
Munich/Schalke
PSV

Think of the amazing games week in week out.
It could even be like the 6 nations if you only want to play 8 games instead of 16.

thejollyrodger

All of those teams now are the best because they qualified in thier home countries. But once they get into the super league they could have a dip in form and it would fan out as 1 or 2 teams competiting for the top place. there would be the crappy relegation battle at the bottom and lots of meaningless matches for teams in the middle that dont have a realistic chance of winning or have to really worry about relegation.

Remember they took away the second group stages of the champions league because there were too many meaningless matches.

Once the teams are playing each other in a league week in week out the quality of football will DEFINTELY decrease.

Things have moved away from the super league anyway, even gary linkear admitted that it was never going to happen and it was too impratical plus bad for football all round.

Chucky the tree

lyon and PSV would be the whipping boys infairness. United would be no great shakes either going by their performance against milan. You would still have teams who would never have a chances of winning it and would end up coming last all the time, like the premiership.

dcarroll

Yeah cos even the group stage of the cl can be a joke with teams like olympiakos who just get hockeyed 5-0 every two weeks even though they're in it every year

Chucky the tree

dcarroll wrote:

Yeah cos even the group stage of the cl can be a joke with teams like olympiakos who just get hockeyed 5-0 every two weeks even though they're in it every year

haha, you couldnt of picked a worse example.

clearly you didnt follow olmpiakos' form in it this season.

PHB

Jesus christ, what in the world are you on about?

Man Utd lost to Milan 1-0 twice, it was hardly a whipping
Lyon came top of their group, beating UTD
PSV perhaps might have a tough time, but Holland is a quality league at the top imo

The league is obviously going to have a top team and a bottom team, with teams int eh middle playign for nothign, Just like every other league in the entire world.
What you are arguing for is cup compo's everywhere, not just here.

And you tell me right here right now that any of those teams couldnt beat the other teams on their day?