Aerdart shuttle bus to end

John R

From http://www.rte.ie/business/2005/0309/aerdart.html

AerDart to suspend Dublin services

March 09, 2005 19:39

AerDart announced today that the AerDart A1 service is to be suspended and services will stop running on Sunday March 20. Nine jobs will be lost with the suspension.

AerDart started their high frequency shuttle bus service, which connected Dublin Airport to Dublin's DART and the eastern and national rail network, in April 2001.

The company said the decision to suspend the service was taken as a result of falling passenger numbers and mounting losses which were caused by the weekend closures of the DART line due to upgrade work.

The company said that with the projected date of the reopening of the DART line now pushed back to September, there is now no possibility that the service will be viable in the foreseeable future.

'DART upgrade works have seriously impacted on the operation of the AerDart service and losses can not be sustained any further,' commented Allen Parker, Managing Director of AerDart.

AerDart is owned by the ComfortDelGro Group, which also operates the CityLink coach service from Dublin to Galway and from Galway to Shannon.

John R

The assertation that the weekend closures are to blame is bull. The service has never been well used, it is too expensive to attract local use and the combined journey time to the city is far longer than the express bus services or the regular bus.
The weekend service had been cut back considerably to co-incide with the rail closures so the effect of them has been minimal. It is just a very handy excuse for ridding an unprofitable service.

Flukey

Well as we all know, there should be a rail link from Dublin city to Dublin Airport. There should probably be a link northwards connecting with the Belfast line somewhere too. Aircoach are running a Dublin Airport - Belfast link now. A direct link to Heuston might be good too. Don't hold your breath though.

cdebru

Flukey wrote:

Well as we all know, there should be a rail link from Dublin city to Dublin Airport. There should probably be a link northwards connecting with the Belfast line somewhere too. Aircoach are running a Dublin Airport - Belfast link now. A direct link to Heuston might be good too. Don't hold your breath though.

do you mean a rail link to hueston there is already a bus link to hueston the 748

cdebru

John R wrote:

The assertation that the weekend closures are to blame is bull. The service has never been well used, it is too expensive to attract local use and the combined journey time to the city is far longer than the express bus services or the regular bus.
The weekend service had been cut back considerably to co-incide with the rail closures so the effect of them has been minimal. It is just a very handy excuse for ridding an unprofitable service.

this is not a good sign for the plans to contract out and privatise the bus services in this city

once the company decide they are not going to make a profit thats it shut up shop is this what people really want from public transport only services that are profitable will operate.

MarkoP11

The service is very poorly used, in fact all three services 747/8 Aircoach and AerDart have very low load factors. Fact is if you are coming from the west or south of the city its just plain easier to get a bus from the city centre and there are more options in the case of the bus not showing up which is really important if you are flying somewhere. With Aercoach going 24 hours (Dublin Bus are following too I think?) and running services as far south as Sandyford they are going to capture a significant share

Howth Junction has never been the nicest spot which doesn't help. The engineering works don't help. IE offered to give AerDart to total face value of the combined ticket for a number of months to keep them in business but AerDart pulled the plug regardless. Fact was AerDart was a never a long term business if IE get there airport spur line bang they would have been gone overnight, equally is the Airport metro every gets built (properly) it would have a similar effect

cdebru

MarkoP11 wrote:

The service is very poorly used, in fact all three services 747/8 Aircoach and AerDart have very low load factors. Fact is if you are coming from the west or south of the city its just plain easier to get a bus from the city centre and there are more options in the case of the bus not showing up which is really important if you are flying somewhere. With Aercoach going 24 hours (Dublin Bus are following too I think?) and running services as far south as Sandyford they are going to capture a significant share

Howth Junction has never been the nicest spot which doesn't help. The engineering works don't help. IE offered to give AerDart to total face value of the combined ticket for a number of months to keep them in business but AerDart pulled the plug regardless. Fact was AerDart was a never a long term business if IE get there airport spur line bang they would have been gone overnight, equally is the Airport metro every gets built (properly) it would have a similar effect

actually the 746 and the 16A go to the airport from the southside namely dun laoghaire and rathfarnham

the 747 and 748 carry a lot of passengers as does the aircoach dont know why you think they have low load factors obviously they are busy during the summer months

the fact is that there is no rail link at the moment and there is unlikely to be one in the short to medium term
the people who were using this service have been left high and dry this is what happens when public transport is operated on a purely for profit basis

dublin bus had a proposal a few years back to run some of the 17As upto the airport but were not allowed the same with the 27s were the idea of running some of them up to the airport was rejected as well

MarkoP11

The load factor is what killed AerDart combined with the poor frequency of every 20 minutes and every 30 minutes after 6pm. IE offered them the full 7 euro take on each combined ticket. Having to wait possibly upto 20-30 minutes in Howth Junction would put most people off, its a pity its gone but we have to give them some respect for the fact at least they tried

Aircoach have gone with the premium service and focused on the tourist and business market by stopping near many major city hotels that said passenger numbers wouldn't set the world alight, once the bus leaves the bottom of Grafton street its not uncommon to see it empty or more typically 3 or 4 people

The arrival of Aercoach brought a complete rethink on the airport run Dublin Bus where forced to compete and they raised there game big time. At 5 euro a head Dublin Bus are making a killing even on loads of only 15-20 after all there are charging effectivly 3 times the normal fare and its probably costing less than a normal bus route of equivalent length to run since its express which means more trips per bus and driver per day.

The real issue with the Airport service is the need to provide a farily high frequency all day to provide the confidence to customers in the service that it will be there when they need it. The ability to stomach the low load factors during slow times which ensue while maintaining the capacity to cope when things pick up particularly during the summer Saturdays is essential.

What we need to see now is a price war.

RuggieBear

MarkoP11 wrote:

The load factor is what killed AerDart combined with the poor frequency of every 20 minutes and every 30 minutes after 6pm. IE offered them the full 7 euro take on each combined ticket. Having to wait possibly upto 20-30 minutes in Howth Junction would put most people off, its a pity its gone but we have to give them some respect for the fact at least they tried

I'd agree with that...There were a number of problems with the AerDart and it's use of Howth Junction.

It's a ****ty station in the between a small industrial park and a housing estate. There alway's seemed to be kids/teens hanging around which can be quite intimidating.

There are inadequete signs directing you to the "bus Stop". I'd often see people wandering the platform wondering which way to go.

You'd have to lug luggage up a poxy stairs to get it over the track. I was always helping people with their massive suitcases, up the stairs and then a ****ing narrow walkway over the track.

No bus shelter or any paraphenalia saying where the aercoach stopped but for a small copybook sized timetable on a lamppost (Which has been vandalised and unreadable for last 6 months). Quite an isolated lonely place...again intimidating to travellers.

Infrequency of busses....i was told originally that a bus would meet every dart....then it was changed to the timetable but the busses never seemed to be able to jeep to this accurately.

Journey time......it was almost as quick to get an aircoach from O@connell st as to get the bus from howth junction to the Airport.

I only used the bloody service as i travelled from Bray to liverpool at least once a month.... Always felt embarressed that this was the "train service" to the airport and that so many foreigners first/last taste of Dublin and Ireland was the shambles that was the AerDart.

cdebru

MarkoP11 wrote:

The load factor is what killed AerDart combined with the poor frequency of every 20 minutes and every 30 minutes after 6pm. IE offered them the full 7 euro take on each combined ticket. Having to wait possibly upto 20-30 minutes in Howth Junction would put most people off, its a pity its gone but we have to give them some respect for the fact at least they tried

Aircoach have gone with the premium service and focused on the tourist and business market by stopping near many major city hotels that said passenger numbers wouldn't set the world alight, once the bus leaves the bottom of Grafton street its not uncommon to see it empty or more typically 3 or 4 people

The arrival of Aercoach brought a complete rethink on the airport run Dublin Bus where forced to compete and they raised there game big time. At 5 euro a head Dublin Bus are making a killing even on loads of only 15-20 after all there are charging effectivly 3 times the normal fare and its probably costing less than a normal bus route of equivalent length to run since its express which means more trips per bus and driver per day.

The real issue with the Airport service is the need to provide a farily high frequency all day to provide the confidence to customers in the service that it will be there when they need it. The ability to stomach the low load factors during slow times which ensue while maintaining the capacity to cope when things pick up particularly during the summer Saturdays is essential.

What we need to see now is a price war.

the 747 route operates a bus every 10 minutes in each direction
on top of that there is a 748 every 30 minutes

the 16a and the 746 not to mention the 41s


and the chances of a price war are minimal this is a case that proves competition does not mean lower fares when aircoach started dublin buses airlink fare was 2 pound aircoach started at about the 3.50 4.00 mark afair dublin bus put up the price within a couple of weeks and were still cheaper than the competition

besides that alot of aircoach passengers have already bought there ticket before they land through ryanair so a price war would have little affect on aircoaches customers who have already paid for their journey

dowlingm

Maybe DAA should approach Aircoach about operating it?

cdebru

dowlingm wrote:

Maybe DAA should approach Aircoach about operating it?

why

dowlingm

Because the DART spur won't be built tomorrow. Until then, people who want to use DART to get to DUB should have a public transport option all the way.

cdebru

dowlingm wrote:

Because the DART spur won't be built tomorrow. Until then, people who want to use DART to get to DUB should have a public transport option all the way.

no why do you think aircoach would be able to operate it when aerdart could not

aircoach have not got a great record either they stopped operating their IFSC-Airport route without giving any notice to anyone that they were stopping at least aerdart gave 2 weeks notice

dowlingm

Aircoach might have extra capacity perhaps? Just a thought.

cdebru

dowlingm wrote:

Aircoach might have extra capacity perhaps? Just a thought.

how would extra capacity solve the problem of not enough people using the route for it to be profitable

Greenman

I'll miss this service!!!

I didn't mind the crappy Howth Junction as I knew where I was going but as said earlier Howth Junction was a joke for those not familar with where to go and as for those stairs accross the tracks, plus no bus shelter,dodgey area etc.

Looking at a map of Dublin Airport and surrounding area would not Portmarnock station have been a better option? I wonder is it a nicer station than crappy Howth Junction??

I'll cope with its loss but it was very handy travelling from Belgium to Dublin and on to Sandycove!!!

Alun

I found it ideal for directing visitors arriving at the airport, who didn't want or need me to go all the way to the airport to pick them up. I live in Bray, so we got maximum worth out of the fixed fare. I'll have to think of an alternative now, I suppose.

dowlingm

cdebru

if Ryanair are selling aircoach tickets on board then business might pick up on this route.

SeanW

Let's hope they closed because they got wind of a potential rail-based competitor coming on-stream within the next few years a.k.a DART spur from Baldoyle

penexpers

Greenman wrote:

Looking at a map of Dublin Airport and surrounding area would not Portmarnock station have been a better option? I wonder is it a nicer station than crappy Howth Junction??

I wouldn't exactly call Portmarnock a station.

Victor

SeanW wrote:

Let's hope they closed because they got wind of a potential rail-based competitor coming on-stream within the next few years a.k.a DART spur from Baldoyle

Hardly, in that case they would run it until services began.

penexpers wrote:

I wouldn't exactly call Portmarnock a station.

It has platforms, footbridges, a ticket office, car park ....

cdebru

dowlingm wrote:

cdebru

if Ryanair are selling aircoach tickets on board then business might pick up on this route.

of course ryanair could have offered that facility to aerdart i dont think it would make a huge difference it seems it was being more used a s local service for people working in the airport than by travellers

cdebru

Victor wrote:

It has platforms, footbridges, a ticket office, car park ....

and is a lot nicer than howth junction

cdebru

Greenman wrote:

Looking at a map of Dublin Airport and surrounding area would not Portmarnock station have been a better option? I wonder is it a nicer station than crappy Howth Junction??
QUOTE]

the 230 goes from just outside portmarnock train station to dublin airport

Victor

Greenman wrote:

Looking at a map of Dublin Airport and surrounding area would not Portmarnock station have been a better option? I wonder is it a nicer station than crappy Howth Junction??

It has more pleasent surroundings, but has much fewer services and is in the middle of nowhere.

cdebru wrote:

the 230 goes from just outside portmarnock train station to dublin airport

Did they extend it? I thought it still only went to the roundabout (a few hundred metres away but a fair hike with luggage).

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=230

Oddly stages 91/09 & 90/10 (Malahide Rd. (Yellow Walls School) and Seabury) are missing and the stages don't match those used on the 32/A/B, 42, 102 and 32 (the routes it part duplicates).

cdebru

Victor wrote:

It has more pleasent surroundings, but has much fewer services and is in the middle of nowhere.

Did they extend it? I thought it still only went to the roundabout (a few hundred metres away but a fair hike with luggage).

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=230

Oddly stages 91/09 & 90/10 (Malahide Rd. (Yellow Walls School) and Seabury) are missing and the stages don't match those used on the 32/A/B, 42, 102 and 32 (the routes it part duplicates).

I dont know when i said outside i meant that couple of hundred yards

they may have taken the 230 out of that estate when they moved it to harristown i know they had planned to join the 102 and the 230 but IE would not allow it as they part owned aerdart

and the 42 is planned to go through seabury so they may have taken it out due to the bad corner on th eway up to yellow walls road

KC61

Quote:

"Oddly stages 91/09 & 90/10 (Malahide Rd. (Yellow Walls School) and Seabury) are missing and the stages don't match those used on the 32/A/B, 42, 102 and 32 (the routes it part duplicates)."

Victor, you're reading far too much into this! It is another example of the DB Timetabling department's excessively long list of errors! They have simply not been included in the online timetable! The printed version of the timetable does reflect those stages.

As for the stages themselves, they are at identical locations to those on route 102 which route 230 follows except that route 102 operates in a clockwise loop between Yellow Walls Road and Seabury, whereas the 230 operates the same route in both directions. The descriptions do differ - remember the 230 was in Summerhill and the 102 in Clontarf depots and the same person did not draw up the schedule/stages. The numbering of stages will differ also as route 230 covers two different corridors (the 32 and 41 groups).

Quote:
"they may have taken the 230 out of that estate when they moved it to harristown i know they had planned to join the 102 and the 230 but IE would not allow it as they part owned aerdart"

IE do not own any part of Aerdart. They had an arrangement with that company to operate a connecting service to/from the Airport but that is as far as any link goes.

IE objections were not the reason that the 230 and 102 did not merge....the principal reason was objections from the unions at Dublin Bus. IE does not have any say over how Dublin Bus operates and vice versa - we know that DB views itself as in competition not partnership with IE.

Iób

someone in DB management said it was because the Department of Transport didn't want them to compete with AerDart.

Victor

trainuser wrote:

The descriptions do differ - remember the 230 was in Summerhill and the 102 in Clontarf depots and the same person did not draw up the schedule/stages. The numbering of stages will differ also as route 230 covers two different corridors (the 32 and 41 groups).

Sorry, all I meant was I would have expected each stop/stage to have only only number - in the Sutton / Portmarnknock / Malahide area its possible to use one numbering series, but they use 3 or 4.

IE objections were not the reason that the 230 and 102 did not merge....the principal reason was objections from the unions at Dublin Bus.

Explain that one to me.

With the DART in Malahide, I'm not sure if merging the routes would increase functionality. In fact you would loose the 102 at McAllisters and the route length would serve to disimprove punctuality. There are a few things that could be done to improve service, like a bus terminus on the north side of Sutton Station, serving Portmarknock Station, bus lane in Malahide Village, rebuild Barrack Bridge ...

cdebru

trainuser wrote:

Quote:


IE do not own any part of Aerdart. They had an arrangement with that company to operate a connecting service to/from the Airport but that is as far as any link goes..

ok they had a contract with aerdart at least
my understanding was they had a share in the company as well but i cannot prove that

trainuser wrote:

IE objections were not the reason that the 230 and 102 did not merge....the principal reason was objections from the unions at Dublin Bus. IE does not have any say over how Dublin Bus operates and vice versa - we know that DB views itself as in competition not partnership with IE.

the 102 is a dart feeder service which is basically like a private hire to IE they have the final say as to where it goes
as far as i am aware IE pay for at least part of the operating cost of dart feeder services and collect the revenue

IE would not allow the 102 to be extended to the airport and continue as a dart feeder service because of the arrangement with aerdart


the difficulty with the 102 230 from a union point of view was to do with breaking starting and finishing in the airport this was done on the 230 by local agreement witht the trade unions in summerhill since no one was marked in on the 230 there was no one to really object

drivers on the 102 route were un willing to accept breaking in the airport as there is no canteen facility at the airport available to them
the other objection was starting and finishing at the airport as clontarf unlike summerhill had no direct route to and from the airport


neither of these prevented the move as both routes are now in harristown and all buses in harristown start break and finish in the depot it could easily have been amalgamated when they moved to harristown

the reason they did not was because IE effectively blocked the move as removing the 102 as a dart feeder would make the route finacially unworkable

BuffyBot

my understanding was they had a share in the company as well but i cannot prove that

Nope - AFAIK it's owned by ComfortDelgo via their Metroline subsiduary in the UK and Crosson Motors

cdebru

BuffyBot wrote:

Nope - AFAIK it's owned by ComfortDelgo via their Metroline subsiduary in the UK and Crosson Motors

ok but they had an interest at least from the point of view that they were recieving income from it

KC61

IE have not been contributing to the cost of the DART feeders for a number of years, and no longer have a say in how they are operated.

If you look at the 102 timetable you will see that, since the most recent timetable change, in the majority of cases the buses are not timetabled to connect with DART's at Sutton! DB timetabled the bus as they would any other route, i.e. how long it took to get from one end of the route to the other, and took no account of DART times. Both the 102 and 111 have both recently been cut back so DB could use the buses elsewhere.

DB were taken to task over the lack of connections at a public meeting, at which their response was that they viewed themselves as in competition with Iarnrod Eireann and not in co-operation with them EVEN in the case of DART Feeder services!!

Hence we have a completely farcical situation where buses depart 5 mins before a train arrives and so on. As to why the 230 and 102 have not been merged since the move to Harristown, I would think that it is merely down to waiting until the dust settles on the new garage opening. DB do not tend to make changes in a rush, and I would think that it was just put on the long finger. However, as soon as union and departmental approval happens you can be sure that it will be implemented immediately with very little notice to the customer!

In summary, the only body that can dictate to Dublin Bus when and where they operate a route is the Department of Transport, and certainly not Iarnrod Eireann. Daft as it may seem it is up to the bus company alone to decide when and where they operate the DART feeder routes (all four of them!).

delly

So that would bring the grand total to zero, of buses that use the N32 bus lane.

Victor

While not providing a through ticket, the 230 effective operates as a DART feeder at Malahide, cheaper than Aerdart for most destinations too, with high-luggage capacity vehicles.

I actually think the 102 is better off having a (more) regular schedule. It was a pain trying to remember times for the 102 they were so random.

delly wrote:

So that would bring the grand total to zero, of buses that use the N32 bus lane.

Do some 747/748 busses use it?

The numbering of stages will differ also as route 230 covers two different corridors (the 32 and 41 groups).

The 41 has adifferent series again.

Trojan

I was a regular victim^Wpassenger on the Aerdart: living by Killester DART station made it perfect for me. Damn them anyway! Now I have to Dart to Connolly and 747 out to the airport - extra time and expense.

BuffyBot

Do some 747/748 busses use it?

Bizarrely no (or it seems based on my last few encounters). DB sends them to Donnycarney and then over to Whitehall and right into the Port Tunnel works. Nice.

Trojan

What's wrong with the 41 route for the 74Xs? Gardiner St -> Drumcondra -> M1.

Fairview -> Donnycarney is a bit out of the way. It's not like they pick up anywhere along there (gripe #2)

cdebru

BuffyBot wrote:

Bizarrely no (or it seems based on my last few encounters). DB sends them to Donnycarney and then over to Whitehall and right into the Port Tunnel works. Nice.

actually the 747/748 dont have an official route once the stops are serviced the driver can go whichever way is the quickest at the time

usually if the 747 or 748 goes that way it is because it is quicker

cdebru

trainuser wrote:

IE have not been contributing to the cost of the DART feeders for a number of years, and no longer have a say in how they are operated.

.

if that is the case then it is only recent as that was the reason i was given by unions and managament in dublin bus

BuffyBot

usually if the 747 or 748 goes that way it is because it is quicker

Aliens must invade the N32/Malahide Road on a regular basis then. It's the only reason I can think that it would be slower than going the other way. The one time I was on an Airlink which went that way, it was a much quicker journey - everytime I get one which goes via Whitehall, I get to sit in traffic..

cdebru

BuffyBot wrote:

Aliens must invade the N32/Malahide Road on a regular basis then. It's the only reason I can think that it would be slower than going the other way. The one time I was on an Airlink which went that way, it was a much quicker journey - everytime I get one which goes via Whitehall, I get to sit in traffic..

it is usually quicker to go via whitehall unless it grinds to a halt completely

controll keep the drivers on the 747/748 informed of accidents heavy traffic etc so they then choose a different route to try and avoid it

the malahide rd/n32 is longer more junctions traffic lights and the roundabout at the m50/m1 can be a nightmare

the people that are driving the route know in general which way is quicker

BuffyBot

it is usually quicker to go via whitehall unless it grinds to a halt completely

Hmm. Well as a reasonably frequent user of said routes, I'm not so sure about that at all.