Hoops fans react angrily to Mo invite

FatherTed

Some honest questions for Celtic fans...

So is the issue that he was paraded as a new Celtic signing and then turned to Rangers? Or is it that he just joined Rangers?

Would Celtic fans have the same feelings if he has joined Rangers directly from Nantes and had not been paraded as a new Celtic signing?

Why did Celtic allow him to be paraded as a new Celtic signing with the hoops shirt on when he had not actually signed?

Why did Celtic not match what Rangers offered Mo?

The same thing happened with American Claudio Reyna a couple of years ago...Fulham announced that he was signed and had pictures of him in their shirt. But he actually was not signed. Manchester City came in at the last minute with a better offer for him and he joined City instead. AFAIK, Fulham fans do not hate Reyna.

A Dub in Glasgo

FatherTed wrote:

Some honest questions for Celtic fans...

So is the issue that he was paraded as a new Celtic signing and then turned to Rangers? Or is it that he just joined Rangers?

He would not have been liked if he done the latter but he done the former therefore he is disliked even more

Would Celtic fans have the same feelings if he has joined Rangers directly from Nantes and had not been paraded as a new Celtic signing?

There would still be the betrayal element but not to the same extent

Why did Celtic allow him to be paraded as a new Celtic signing with the hoops shirt on when he had not actually signed?

Good question - they probably believed MJ when he said he would only return to Scotland to join his boyhood heroes. In other words they were probably complacent.

Why did Celtic not match what Rangers offered Mo?

Did not have the cash

The same thing happened with American Claudio Reyna a couple of years ago...Fulham announced that he was signed and had pictures of him in their shirt. But he actually was not signed. Manchester City came in at the last minute with a better offer for him and he joined City instead. AFAIK, Fulham fans do not hate Reyna.

With all due respect, that is nothing like this case

A Dub in Glasgo

WhiteWashMan wrote:

dude, i think you are getting the wrong end of the stick.
i am not attacking you. dont get defensive.
im asking because i want to know.
ive had this discussion with people before, and i still dont think i know what it is imlooking for.

Apologies

but i will tell you a little story. i used to owrk in ibm, where there were 4 or 5 guys who were celtic supporters. now these werent your run of the mill, hey were irish supporters.
these guys were hardcore season ticket holders. these guys were hard core nationalists, had affiliations with sein feinn, and one or two of them, went a little further, if you know what i mean. now 2 of these guys hated me. with a passion. becuase on my first day on the job, i joked and said i was a rangers support. one of them had to fight back the effort to not spit on me.
for them, ever weekend on the terrace was a battle with the hun bástards, the 'protestant' bastards.
i had to listen to rebel songs, and 'RA songs and all that shíte. so you may understand where i tend to get my view points on these sorts of thigns.

For decades, Celtic fans have travelled across the North Channel from Ireland to see Celtic. A lot of them came from Nationalist areas and they sang Nationalist songs. A lot of people (Scottish and Irish) see Celtic as not just a football team and will celebrate their heritage, culture and even rebellion through their support of the club. Some people have a problem with this and state that football is football and it should never be mixed with the cocktail of life, culture, heritage and politics. I disagree with that view as those things can rarely be taken from people. Some people will take the stance that this is all the sectarian baggage that is associated with Celtic, I disagree with that because i believe they have not got an idea of what is sectarian and what is not.

Sure, there are some mindless fans who follow Celtic who 'hate' their protestant neighbours but, in my experience, they are a small minority.

and they all had the exact same excuses and things to say as the 'nationalists' on the politics forum funnily enough

Ahh! I can explain that.... Indoctrination and propaganda filled heads.... apparantly

i often question someones alligence and do you think a lot of irish celtic supporters could give a good answer, apart from 'their irish' if i said whydo you support celtic. do you thinhk they could distinguish out the sectarianism?

i dont.

A lot of people have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to sectarianism. This is the new buzzword to catchall in Scotland. I can distinguish sectarianism from Nationalism, from expressing identity, from celebrating heritage, from politic viewpoints. A lot of people cannot.

i support spurs. ive done so since i was 4. thats 27 years ago. my old man played for charlton, but he was always a spurs fan. and thats why im a spurs fan. yep, its that easy. im following my old mans tradition. besides, we were one of the best teams in europe and went on to win the uefa cup and the FA cup two years running when i was only 7

Tradition... you see there is a description that apparantly cannot apply to Celtic fans. It is always a question of why do you support Celtic? Is it the sectarianism? Is it because you hate Protestants? Because you are a terrorist? Because you are scum.

I actually grew up in Dublin a Manchester United fan until the 1979 Cup Final with Aresenal and I just could not believe they could throw away the final like that My uncle travelled to Glasgow from Dublin during the 1970s and 1980s and I was absolutely astounded that he done this. He scrimped and saved and spent long journeys on the coach and ferry. You see, to me (and nearly everyone else in Dublin) following football meant watching Match of The Day and the odd live game (not many) on TV. It just seemed so strange that someone would actually travel to a game. I went along one weekend when I was 12 and I was hooked. I have followed Celtic ever since. In 1991, I came to the UK and lived in Bolton as a student. I could not afford to travel to Glasgow so I went to Burnden Park and about 25 games at Old Trafford (just as the EPL was being created). In 1993, I came to Glasgow with British Rail and immediately threw myself into Celtic. I got a season ticket in 1995 and I would much prefer to go and see live football than follow a team througn TV.

What struck me about Celtic and the Celtic fans were the joy at being associated with Ireland. It is a deep and genuine feeling from most Celtic fans and I am amazed at the outright hostility from some Irish football supporters to Celtic.

so im not questioning your allegance to your team. you can support accrington stanley for all i give a monekys

As I said, only one team for an Irishman in Glasgow to support

however, i do think its poor form to say you will stay away just becasue you dont like some bloke who going to play
and thats my opinion.

If i actually said that, you may have a point but I did not say it. I will not condemn others that do want to pay their money and not turn up because a player who betrayed the club is going to play during the game.

As I have said earlier, this is the classic mountain out of a molehill scenerio.

The Muppet

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

??? And what reason do the tens of thousands of Irish people have for supporting an English team. why do you support a Scottish team and an English team?

As Eirbhoy rightly said earlier there is not what he called the same "rivalry" between supporters who support English clubs and Rangers/Celtic. There has to be an explaination for that and to many people it appears to be bigotry. Thats the reality of the situation and programmes like the recent panorama documentary did nothing to disprove those suspicions.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Muppet wrote:

As Eirbhoy rightly said earlier there is not what he called the same "rivalry" between supporters who support English clubs and Rangers/Celtic. There has to be an explaination for that and to many people it appears to be bigotry. Thats the reality of the situation and programmes like the recent panorama documentary did nothing to disprove those suspicions.

There is an added demension to it and some of it is bigotry, some of it is sectarianism, some political, some racial, some of it for the hell of it, some tradition, some of it is unknown. That Panorama programme would do nothing to disprove it because it did not delve into anything really, no depth, no breath... just very narrow.

My quote above was in reply to WWM stating this

think most irish supporters of celtic do so because their mates do, who do because their da's do etc. but really, there is no reason to support a scottish team.

Yet the vast majority on this forum support an English team... why? for all the reason listed? If that is so, why can't a Celtic supporter support Celtic for those reasons without someone somewhere stating with apparant authority... it is because you are a bigot

The Muppet

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Yet the vast majority on this forum support an English team... why? for all the reason listed? If that is so, why can't a Celtic supporter support Celtic for those reasons without someone somewhere stating with apparant authority... it is because you are a bigot

What other conclusion can you come to regarding those fans that beat a teenager to a pulp because he was wearing a Blue Tracksuit on old firm matchday or threatened a boycot of a charity match for the reasons given here. I am not saying that all Celtic Fans are bigots in fact

I have nothing against Celtic in fact I have cheered them on in the past and will do again. It's some of their Irish based fans actions that has altered my feeling about them. There is a element of Celtic supporters than do not realise that they are no different than those of us that support other Brirish teams. [no offence intended] Supporting Celtic FC have noting whatsoever to do with patrioism or our national soccer team but as we have seen in this very thread and by their actions at our International matches in the past some Celtic fans think differently.

Big Ears

WhiteWashMan wrote:

lol, i know about the boca junior one, i wasnt aware that panathinaikos was started by an irish man.

I was the opposite I new Panathinaikos was but I didn't know Boca was , I though they had British founders .Eire got any links so I can read more about the Boca one ?

A Dub in Glasgo

The Muppet wrote:

What other conclusion can you come to regarding those fans that beat a teenager to a pulp because he was wearing a Blue Tracksuit on old firm matchday

I could say the same about the Manchester United fans who ran amok down Paisley Road West on the night Manchester United played Rangers in the CL in 2003. I would not say that because I know that those type of fans are a minority within all clubs.

or threatened a boycot of a charity match for the reasons given here. I am not saying that all Celtic Fans are bigots in fact

It was not a boycott, people were willing to buy the tickets but not turn up. That is their choice. If it was a boycott, they would not be willing to buy a ticket.

There is a element of Celtic supporters than do not realise that they are no different than those of us that support other Brirish teams. [no offence intended] Supporting Celtic FC have noting whatsoever to do with patrioism or our national soccer team but as we have seen in this very thread and by their actions at our International matches in the past some Celtic fans think differently.

If an Irishman wants to support a British football team because that team was created to support Irish immigrants in a certain British city, what is wrong with that? The Irishman might feel that he is proud of that teams heritage, culture and ethos. To me personally, if I was supporting a British football team, I would support a British team with Irish roots (as I do). Does that make me a bigot? Of course it doesn't. I hear Manchester United has some Irish roots and I believe that Man United fans are being asked to sing some Irish related song for St. Patricks Day, does that make those fans bigots? Of course not. People are free to support who they like for what reasons they like. Everyone has an opinion and mine happens to be different to a lot of people here but I do not judge someone based on their choice.

The only rational argument against supporting a British football team is the lack of support enjoyed by the League of Ireland teams because a lot of football (soccer) fans ignore this side of football.

The Muppet

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I could say the same about the Manchester United fans who ran amok down Paisley Road West on the night Manchester United played Rangers in the CL in 2003. I would not say that because I know that those type of fans are a minority within all clubs.

Indeed you could say that but would you have the evidence to surpport that. Were they singing sectarian songs etc etc. I would imagine not.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

It was not a boycott, people were willing to buy the tickets but not turn up. That is their choice. If it was a boycott, they would not be willing to buy a ticket.

Come off it, how many people would have purchased tickets but not gone to the match. Financial considerations would dictate very few I would imagine.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If an Irishman wants to support a British football team because that team was created to support Irish immigrants in a certain British city, what is wrong with that? The Irishman might feel that he is proud of that teams heritage, culture and ethos. To me personally, if I was supporting a British football team, I would support a British team with Irish roots (as I do). Does that make me a bigot? Of course it doesn't. I hear Manchester United has some Irish roots and I believe that Man United fans are being asked to sing some Irish related song for St. Patricks Day, does that make those fans bigots? Of course not. People are free to support who they like for what reasons they like. Everyone has an opinion and mine happens to be different to a lot of people here but I do not judge someone based on their choice.

I totally agree with you but I think you missed my point. Everyone is free to choose who they support but choosing Celtic does not make you any more Irish than those of us that chose Utd Liverpool Arsenal etc or Rangers for that matter.

eirebhoy

Just a little point. Since I registered to this forum I have been wearing my Celtic jersey's less and less out on the street because of all the assumptions I've hearsd people make about Celtic supporters on this forum. It seems you're not allowed come from Ireland and support Celtic without explaning yourself. The area I live is fine but I wouldn't wear a Celtic top to work anymore (I meet knew workmates every other day and don't want them thinking the things of a few on here).

Also, if you asked me at the start of the seasonw which of the 3 teams I'd want to win the premiership I would have chosen Chelsea (just because Duff plays for them). I have heard loads of stories about Chelsea fans such as the one below:

Last week, myself and a couple of friends made the trip to Barcelona to see the Barca Chelsea match. We arrived on the Monday and the place was all quiet. Come Tuesday night the place was filling up with Chelsea fans. They were walkin around singing no srrender to the IRA and other anti Irish related chants.

We headed out on Tuesday night and one of my mates was wearing an Argentina shirt and got abuse from Chelsea fans all night. One fellow even tried to start a fight with him.

On Wednesday the match day we headed out to the stadium in our Barca gear(being Barca supporters). The match was great. After the match we got the metro back into the city. We got so much abuse from the Chelsea fans for wearin the barca gear and obviuosly not being Spanish. When we got off the metro only for the presence of the riot police im sure we would have received a good beaten.

One of the most frightening experiences of my life.

Just wondering if anyone else has had any frightening experiences at any foreign football games

http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=22534&highlight=chelsea+fans
This is, and I know it is, common at Chelsea away games but it doesn't mean I'm going to tar the club with the brush.

If you watch any Celtic away matches (they're on every 2nd week on Setanta), you'll see that the majority of Celtic fans sing the chants. When it comes to pro-IRA or secterian songs about 5-10 of them would sing. Every club has these types of fans. OK, there is a huge rivalry between the fans but a Rangers fan won't be killed any more for being Protestant than he would for being a Rangers fan, IMO.

Secterianism exists at the club but just seperate that from the vast majority of fans at the club. and btw, Barcelona have more hardcore and just as much scum fans as Celtic do. But you can walk down the street of Dublin proudly in a Barca jersey.

PHB

I think you'll find that english fans gettheir reputation from Chelsea fans and the majority of other clubs dont have this crap

Thanx 4 The Fish

I think that you will find you are wrong PHB, i live not too far from Birmingham and the police recommend not being on the streets near either stadium on derby days. When I lived in Sheperd's Bush and Fulham were playing at loftus road they were dreadful fans to have about, before they played there, there was bugger all trouble from the QPR fans and their guests but after a Fulham game, regardless of the result you could be guaranteed that there would be a few guys with split heads about the place.

There have been numerous riots in recent games but they are just not being reported as the papers here think, and probably rightly so, that some of these thugs will get their jollies from being in the paper for causing/being involved in a riot where people have been hurt etc.

KdjaCL

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

There have been numerous riots in recent games but they are just not being reported as the papers here think, and probably rightly so, that some of these thugs will get their jollies from being in the paper for causing/being involved in a riot where people have been hurt etc.

How true its "If we dont show it doesnt happen" thats the mentality over there.
Man Utd vs Leeds about 3 years back was a full scale riot with about 5000 fans oddly didnt even make the Leeds Herald let alone SSN or BBC. Every game there has trouble outside the ground just not shown anymore.

kdjac

A Dub in Glasgo

Are Leeds fans sectarian for not wanting Smith to return? And this move was not even close to the MJ one!

Smith misses out on Leeds return

Alan Smith's return to Elland Road for Lucas Radebe's testimonial has been ruled out amid concerns over security.

Smith, who left Leeds last season, was to be invited to play on 2 May but the organisers decided against it, following discussions with police.

Chairman of the organising committee, David Share, told the Yorkshire Post: "Alan Smith would love to play.

"But it wouldn't be prudent so soon after him moving from Leeds to United to have him involved."

We are not able to invite certain players back - it is a fact of life

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/leeds_united/4342991.stm

PHB

REally?
Thats amazing, I honastly had never even heard about any incidents after games.
Thats kinda creepy

The Muppet

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Are Leeds fans sectarian for not wanting Smith to return? And this move was not even close to the MJ one!




http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/leeds_united/4342991.stm

That is very selective editing there Dub in Glasgo. Why did you remove the sentences below from the quote? That's not exactly Leed fans threatening to Boycot the match if Smith played is it? The full artice also makes the point that the smith transfer is very recent.

Share added: "He is very disappointed and I would imagine the vast majority of Leeds supporters are disappointed too.

"We are only dealing with a small minority, but it is the decision that has been taken.

Celtic fans are up in arms about something that happened over a decade ago, I shouldn't be surprised by that either Rangers /Celtic fans are still taunting each other over events that happened hundreds of years ago.

por

eirebhoy wrote:

TBF, if I supported Panathinaikos or Boca Juniors I'd be extremely proud of their Irish links and if there was a pic available (like the one in the sig) of the Irishman who founded the clubs I'd be using it. Of course, I don't support either so couldn't care less.

What are you on about, I know St. Patrick's day is coming up but this is misplaced Irish pride gone haywire.

I cannot find anything about Boca Juniors but Panathinaikos have 0 association with Ireland, the crest and colours are a coincidence.

Keano_sli

The symbol is a trefoil and green, looks like a shamrock, the shamrock is an Irish symbol, therefore they must be Irish. Eh well no there is no connection to Ireland at all actually, just Greek! But proud to be Greek so maybe thats the connection.
Equally know nothing about Boca so can't shed light on that connection either

A Dub in Glasgo

Keano_sli wrote:

The symbol is a trefoil and green, looks like a shamrock, the shamrock is an Irish symbol, therefore they must be Irish. Eh well no there is no connection to Ireland at all actually, just Greek!

The trefoil is the radioactive symbol. Panathinaikos use the Shamrock or trifylli in Greece.

DO PANATHINAIKOS HAVE SECRET IRISH CONNECTIONS?

"What is the origin of the shamrock on the Panathinaikos crest?" asks Diarmuid O'Brien. "Is there any overt Irish connection there, given their crest and green strip, or is it, as my mate claimed in the pub during one drunken Champions League viewing, that Greece is the only place outside Ireland where shamrock grows?"

Much as it pains us to say it - for we love a good yarn more than most - neither story is true.

In 1918 Panathinaikos chose the shamrock - or trifylli as it's known in Greece - as their emblem on the suggestion of Mihalis Papazoglou, an athlete from Constantinople who played for Chalkidona, and Chalkidona had the same symbol. The idea was accepted by Panathinaikos's council and confirmed as the team's official badge.

As for the colour of the kit, again there's no overtly Irish connection. Green being the colour of the trifylli no doubt had something to do with it, but the choice of kit seems to be partly a practical one too. Until green became the team's official colour, most players turned up and played in different coloured outfits.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/news/theknowledge/0,9204,530929,00.html

eirebhoy

por wrote:

What are you on about

To be perfectly honest. I just googled it and found a link saying Panathanaikos was founded by an Irishman:
http://www.ntvcelticfanzine.com/diary/diary%20august%202003.htm

I've heard a few people relate them with Ireland but its obviously all crap.

If you can't find anything about Boca being founded by an Irishman your one hell of a terrible googler.

Anyway, none of this takes anything away from the point I made.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

The Muppet

ziggy67 wrote:

BTW they only got around 15000 at the game and it is reported in the Scottish media that very little money will go to the charities after "expenses" have been taken out, which is a real shame.

Surprise surprise it looks like all the "Fans" that were going to buy tickets but not go to the game didn't materialise. Still good to see they didn't Boycot a charity event for their own petty reasons.

A Dub in Glasgo

Surprise surprise, The Muppet wades in. What ziggy forget to mention was the hundreds locked outside when the staff at Hampden did not let thm pay at the turnstiles.

A good article from etims about the whole affair

We were even more confused when Johnstone’s missus contacted the Sunday papers from her bunker in the States to claim that Judas had not actually been invited and even if he had been there was no way he would have attended. Curiouser and curiouser.

Was Mojo A Smokescreen For The Auld Firm Charity Game?

Maybe The Muppet would like to contribute to this charity event

All in a good cause: Villareal CSC charity match - 2 April

The Muppet

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Surprise surprise, The Muppet wades in. What ziggy forget to mention was the hundreds locked outside when the staff at Hampden did not let thm pay at the turnstiles.

A good article from etims about the whole affair
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Why the surprise? I contribute to most threads here, whats the problem?