Help stop the seal slaughter in Canada!

b.bardot

Hi guys,
there's a protest being held on Tuesday at the Canadian Embassy near Stephens Green at 12 - 2pm which is one of many being held all over the world - why? because baby seals are clubbed, shot, swung in the air and their heads beaten off the ground or skinned alive just for their fur! Most of them are only a few days old - In the 2002–2003 hunt, 96.6% were between 12 days and 12 weeks old. They are taken away from their mothers just so a fisherman can make 40 dollars a pelt. If you think they are just earning a living I don't so - supporters of Canada’s seal hunting like to say that fishermen from the northeast provinces rely on the annual massacre for their livelihood. The fact is that seal hunting is only one way commercial fishermen earn money during the off season—it's responsible for just a small fraction of their annual income
Livelihood or no livelihood, this years batch of newborn baby seals are going to face so pain and agony all for the sake of a fur coat. They are the most adorable, loveable creatures and I plead with you to come down to the protest on Tuesday on your lunch break or take an hour off work and join the group if you can. It would be very much appreciated and hopefully we could make enough of an impact and make a difference. The Blaskets seal slaughter last November when local fishermen shot and clubbed 60 seals, enraged and appalled most of Ireland, it showed that we cared about the seals and wouldn't like to see any creature suffer such a horrific end.
Thank you for reading this,
I really hope to see you there!

Thorbar

Personally I don't have a moral objection to seal clubbing. I eat meat every day and I'm not going to stop doing that as far as I can see. Can't keep eating meat which I know causes the suffering of animals then do a protest about other animals suffering because their cute or the way their killed isn't controlled in a factory. Best of luck with your protest though.

CJhaughey

I Don't personally have a problem with the control of seals.
Canadians can manage their own affairs quite well thank you.
Media hype has blown this out of all proportion, trendy cause and all that stuff.

b.bardot

well if you dont have any argument with the culling of seals, maybe you have a problem with their methods of killing - like SKINNING ALIVE - could be changed to a more humane way? no? you dont have any arguments with a baby animal feeling maximum pain? you agree with the methods used?
eating meat to live is not the same as wearing a animal for fashion.
Trendy cause? you're goddam*n right it is - for those who want display their wealth in society, a fur coat is the height of trendiness so many thanks for pointing that out 'Cj'
the seal clubbing can be stopped like it was in many other countries, it is not essential or necessesary in this age and even though the lives of a few million seals don't matter much to a 'meat eater' like yourself, they do actually mean alot to others who aren't as cold as you.
it's funny how quickly people react so nastily to acts of kindness I have to say

Lexie

Seal Culling is an absolute disgraceful act of cruelty. Now I dont mean controlled slaughter, I mean how its usually done. How would humans like it if higher beings than us existed and came to slaughter us and our babies. Came and smashed our skulls, skinned us alive, took our babies and murdered them in the most horrific of ways. F***ing P***ks. I'll probably be banned for this but I hope the B***ards die roaring.

cormie

Killing for survival is fine, killing for fur is a disgrace.

If we were all cavemen and women, there would be no vegetarians. Why? Because the meat was essential for survival and animals were killed the way a bird will kill a worm, simply to survive. Yes, a caveman would have fur of an animal, only to keep him warm, not to show off. You don't see birds wearing worm skins around their neck as a fashion statement. We have cotton, we don't need to be killing helpless animals for fur.

Kali

Wait a minute.. on that Blaskets seal slaughter, it was in the media for all of two days and then nobody really gave cared anymore, ah sure its just the local fishermen... why bother protesting something thats happening in canada when nothing is done about this at home? no charges were ever pressed to my knowledge... absolutely pointless protesting that will achieve nothing in Canada.

CJhaughey

b.bardot wrote:

it's funny how quickly people react so nastily to acts of kindness I have to say

I didn't react nastily I merely stated that I felt that canadians could manage their own affairs.
And where did I say that I was a meat eater?
And as for skinning alive where is the proof? I understand that if you try and skin a living animal it will react with
movement, thereby increasing the risk of damaging the pelt.
This would be entirely counterproductive.
This whole argument is simply emotive and based on the "cute" media picture of a baby seals face and blood on ice.
there are plenty of other animals that face extinction , and yet receive little or no media attention because they aren't "cute".
Cormie you say we have cotton, look up Aral sea and you will see that cotton is not the harmless crop that you think it is.
Re the seal slaughter in the Blaskets has it affected the longterm survival prospects of seals in Ireland? answer= NO
get over it.

koneko

Lexie wrote:

Blah blah

Lexie, control your temper and mind your language.

Wibbs

B.Bardot. Can I be honest here? I think a lot more people would be sympathetic to this cause and others like it were it not for the obvious distaste many of the antis/veggies have to meat eaters. The term meat eater, when used in a pejorative way only serves to alienate possible supporters to this and other animal welfare issues.

The fact is that we are omnivores. Do we have a second stomach, chew the cud or have a functioning appendix? No. That big brain of yours partly got that way because our ancestors started to eat animal protein in far greater amounts when compared to our ape cousins. The earliest stone tools where used to crack open the long bones of animals to extract the marrow. Even chimpanzees our closest relative, will not pass up the opportunity to consume meat when it's available. Even going so far as to hunt monkeys in packs.

If you choose the vegetarian/vegan route, more power to you, but if others choose to continue a process that's been going on for millions of years, criticising that choice is hardly helpful in gaining sympathy for your cause(though way to many people eat way too much of the stuff). IMO the issue at hand is that we should treat the animals that most of us chose to eat, in the most humane way possible. I would be among the first to protest against battery farming of chickens, production of veal etc. There are many foodstuffs out there that I refuse to buy for those very reasons.

As for "cavemen" not showing off. I suspect they did. Our brains haven't changed for many thousands of years. If you are wearing a wolf pelt, you can be sure it would have higher status than the bloke in the next cave that could only cobble together a rabbit pelt.

Thorbar

b.bardot wrote:

even though the lives of a few million seals don't matter much to a 'meat eater' like yourself, they do actually mean alot to others who aren't as cold as you.
it's funny how quickly people react so nastily to acts of kindness I have to say

First of all I never said I condoned or agreed with the way these seal cubs are killed. My point was that I couldn't come along to your protest and support it based on the fact that I am a 'meat eater'. I was trying to honestly put across my point that because I eat meat and there by sponser the slaughter of animals I don't think I'm in the position to protest against seals being clubbed.
Also as far as I can see you're the one who started throwing insults first so I 'm not sure why you're complaining about nasty reactions.

b.bardot

umm Thorbar, I'm not here to throw insults if you can see. The subliminal message from 'best of luck with your protest though' comment after you stated you didn't care cause you weren't going to stop eating meat 'as far you could see', was interpreted as 'its a losing battle, good luck wasting your time'.

I specifically posted the message in the animal section - if you are here because you like animals and have pets - why are you disagreeing with saving the lives of millions of animals?

If you don't like animals, why are you here?

Lastly, to Kali and CJ - charges will be made since the guns were traced and files for prosecution are being prepared. Since it is ILLEGAL to kill seals in Ireland, a PROTECTED species for the reason THEY ARE BECOMING EXTINCT!!!!!!!!! their numbers are down from thousands to 300!!!! caused by the fishermen kiliing them. c*hrist do you know anything?

b.bardot

if you want to try debating it, read up on it first and then get back to me.

saving animals is not a lost cause, it's trying to convince people of this thats lost.

CJhaughey

b.bardot wrote:

THEY ARE BECOMING EXTINCT!!!!!!!!! their numbers are down from thousands to 300!!!! caused by the fishermen kiliing them. c*hrist do you know anything?

Ok debate time please provide evidence that seals are becoming extinct?
sources, dates, ?
Fisherman killing them? apart from the Blaskets where else?
I am not aware of any large scale seal culls in Ireland.
I would hazard a guess and say that you know very little about the population of Irish Pinnipeds.
The latest information I have is that seal numbers are in the thousands not 300 and most definately not nearing extinction.
I appreciate that you think you are fighting a noble cause however you should do some background research yourself before you come here and disparage the opinions of others.

Wibbs

Precisely CJHaughey. You would do well to check out her other posts on the matter at hand. An emotive subject that is worthy of debate and cold hard fact, but in this instance I suppose that opportunity is sadly lost.

Here's a thread started by the good lady in another forum;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=234058

Starts off fine. Easy target to have in your sights, I grant you that. It soon turns into a rant.

I for one have a great love for animals. Whether it be the ones in my home or the ones in the wild. It would have been nice if someone representing animal rights actually convinced the fence sitters to get off their collective bottoms and helped. It's a pity.

b.bardot

I'm just too angry

check it out for yourself, you're on the net!
check out the Irish Seal Sanctuary and maybe if you went to a seal release you might not need such hard facts to help you empatise with them.

over and out

CJhaughey

b.bardot wrote:

over and out

I won!!

I can act like a 12 year old too!

Wibbs

It may surprise you to know that I've been to the seal sanctuary.

http://www.irishsealsanctuary.ie/

A worthy place to donate a few quid btw. Good people. I've witnessed two seal releases. I have a lot of empathy with them. Cute little critters to say the least. Lovely distinctive faces in particular.

To be honest I'm more concerned at the pollution in the seas, that some have suggested may have caused a drastic reduction in their numbers due to disease(mystery virus a few years back).

Maybe we would be better served in the longer term to addressing issues like pollution in our seas and inland waterways that have seen habitats severely compromised in a very short timeframe. It's a start, but without clean water we're all in trouble.

I have seen enough fishkills in the last ten years to last a lifetime. I haven't seen an otter on a river in 7 years. Water voles, at least 5 years. Whole species of insects have largely disappeared on many of our rivers. Being a flyfishing type, I notice these things. Sadly bugs don't get the sympathy vote. But if they're not present the whole ecosystem is in trouble.

That's the thing. I don't see people protesting against that. protesting against house building beside waterways and other vulnerable habitats. Protesting against inshore fish farms that have decimated local habitats. Reporting when raw slurry is released into rivers and streams. protesting against overgrazing on highlands that are changing our countryside forever.

I have done all of the above and while I could have done more and hope to do so in the future, I and others certainly don't need to be lectured by someone who's repertoire of animal rights seems to begin and end with a Linda Mcartney cookbook.

Over and out indeed.

Apologies to other posters but I just got a bit ticked off at certain screechy rhetoric. Sorry again.

CJhaughey

Well said Wibbs.
I agree totally with your points above.
This is what I was getting at in my second post that animals that aren't media friendly don't get a look in.
BTW the mystery virus was Phocine Distemper virus(PDV) and only affected the Harbour seal not the Grey seal.
Keep on truckin with the protests bang on the door long enough and people ask what the noise is about.

b.bardot

Linda Mcartney cookbook? ouch. that actually really hurts.

CJhaughey

b.bardot what are you doing back here ? have you come to debate sealing? , thought not.
Obviously my time is wasted trying to debate in a meaningful way with the likes of you.
Get your coat on the way out.

b.bardot

oooh big man 'CJ'
bet you feel really great now considering I was never even 'debating' with you in the first place.
It's ok though you'll have more of 'your time' to spend posting which gives you the confidence you don't actually have in real life, so I'll leave you to it.
have a nice life

Wibbs

Jeez, this is getting silly. b.bardot go do your protest thing and best of luck with it. It may do nothing, but be glad with the fact that you're at least doing something.

Just in future maybe look at other areas that may warrant your attention. Maybe try to win people over to your way of thinking through debate and knowledge. I don't mean just in places like this either.

The danger with any heart felt philosophy is that you can end up only talking to people who agree with you and that's dangerous. Both for your philosophy , your view of the world and the world's view of you. Debate is good in the real world. It can only serve to reinforce your position or bring better understanding into a new one.

The less you screech at people the more you may reach. Avoid capslock in print and screen. It smacks of neurosis.

Anyhooo my best to the seals

Thorbar

b.bardot wrote:

umm Thorbar, I'm not here to throw insults if you can see. The subliminal message from 'best of luck with your protest though' comment after you stated you didn't care cause you weren't going to stop eating meat 'as far you could see', was interpreted as 'its a losing battle, good luck wasting your time'.

I specifically posted the message in the animal section - if you are here because you like animals and have pets - why are you disagreeing with saving the lives of millions of animals?

If you don't like animals, why are you here?

Lastly, to Kali and CJ - charges will be made since the guns were traced and files for prosecution are being prepared. Since it is ILLEGAL to kill seals in Ireland, a PROTECTED species for the reason THEY ARE BECOMING EXTINCT!!!!!!!!! their numbers are down from thousands to 300!!!! caused by the fishermen kiliing them. c*hrist do you know anything?

I was honestly wishing you best of luck with your protest and if you took it up wrong I guess that's as a result of my poor writing skills.

Considering how you have behaved in this thread I have absolutely no respect for your opinion or beliefs. You strike me more as someone who's protesting for fashion reaons rather then someone who has logical and consistant moral system which they are willing to fight for.

I was posting here as I thought I could get into an interesting discussion about animal rights and how to go about improving them. I put forward my position as someone who eats meat and sees this as a reason for not protesting against animal abuse. Instead you decided to throw the toys out of the crib and go for a sulk. As Wibbs has pointed out you'd get a lot more achieved if you educated yourself a little, provided decent sources for your claims and learned how to take part in a logical discussion in a civil manner. Of course you can just go and hang out with all your friends who wont question or challenge your view and complain about all those insensitve **** choking on slabs of meat.

CJhaughey

b.bardot wrote:

if you want to try debating it, read up on it first and then get back to me.

I tried, you didn't back up your semi-hysterical rant with ANY hard facts or evidence.

b.bardot wrote:

saving animals is not a lost cause, it's trying to convince people of this thats lost.

What is a lost cause is trying to debate an issue such as this one with someone like yourself. Closed minds and an inability to see other peoples points of view won't get you very far.