The Slapping Debate.

Paddyo

Hi

I was having a discussion with some freinds and slapping of children came up.
Some people mentioned that slapping children is illegal in Ireland. I was wondering if this is the case and if so can someone point me a link to where this is made clear.

I dont want this to be a discussion on the moral rights or wrongs of slapping. I am just looking for some factual information.

I have looked but cannot find anything which would support that it is in fact illegal.

Many thanks
Paddyo

jinxycat

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/our_policies/women/women_s_policy

As a first step towards ending the “acceptability” of violence, that the Government outlaws slapping of children. If children are slapped for being “bold” (often a concept they don’t fully understand), they may think that it is alright to slap others, for what they may subjectively see as bold.
just a quote from that page. i suppose it's the same for children.

Yavvy

are you interested in slapping children paddyo, I dont know the legal position but thats really not important, its wrong.

Paddyo

Alany wrote:

are you interested in slapping children paddyo,

What sort of a question is that?

As I said in my initial post - I am looking for factual information.

Paddyo

semisleeping

I was actually having a conversation about this with a friend at lunch today. I think slapping a child is a parents right and I do not think it should be illegal. However, I do realise that there is a fine line between a non-threatening slap for discipline reasons and abusive behaviour and for this reason bounderies have to be put in place....it's hard though. I know that as a child I was whalloped with a wooden spoon across the arm or bum if I was being bold. It has not affected me in any negative way and looking back I'm surprised I didn't get worse for some of the stuff I did!

loyatemu

it's not illegal, and would be practically unenforceable if it was

in general I don't agree with smacking kids but would make an exception if the child is doing something dangerous.

kasintahan

It isn't necessary if you have the intelligence to bring up a child correctly and the imagination to punish them constructivly when they are bold (and they will be!)

Nevyn

true mental torture and crippling emotional cruelty is far more effective.

RainyDay

loyatemu wrote:

it's not illegal, and would be practically unenforceable if it was

It is no more unenforceable than any other form of violence within families. They said the same thing about the ban on rape within marriage, but there have been successful prosecutions under that law.

Blinda

Padd Its definately illegal in the UK dont know about EIRE.

dahamsta

I don't think it's illegal here.

I was slapped a little when I was young and I don't think it did any harm, but there's no way I'd slap my own kids; because a) there's no need to, putting them outside the door or holding something back works just as well; and b) I think it would be too easy to separate (my) temper and (their) punishment.

adam

secret_squirrel

Blinda wrote:

Padd Its definately illegal in the UK .

Err - no its not

I find it rather amusing to note all the posters who go into judgement mode - rather than answer a simple question :rolleyes:

Simi

There was a thread there a while back where a guy got fined for slapping his kid in front of a garda, so i'm pretty sure its illegal. And besides what justifiable reason could you have to hit a child? Use your words...

dahamsta

secret_squirrel wrote:

I find it rather amusing to note all the posters who go into judgement mode - rather than answer a simple question :rolleyes:

Prolly the same people that recommend Firefox when someone asks how to clear their cookies in IE. Or MDaemon when someone asks for an MTA recommendation in the UNIX forum! :rolleyes:

secret_squirrel

Simi wrote:

There was a thread there a while back where a guy got fined for slapping his kid in front of a garda, so i'm pretty sure its illegal.

That doesnt necessary follow - that just means that the Guarda thought he was doing something illegal and the guy didnt chose to challenge the fine in court. Had a quick search for the thread and couldnt find it so it would be speculation on both our sides to refer to it any further (waits for thread to be found in very next post )

Edit : just found this poll on the indo site which suggests if smacking is illegal then it must have been made pretty recently. Unfortunately doesnt seem as if there is any date on the poll itself to be sure....

Blinda

secret_squirrel wrote:

Err - no its not

I find it rather amusing to note all the posters who go into judgement mode - rather than answer a simple question :rolleyes:

Slapping children IS ILLEGAL in the UK.-FACT

Bogger77

secret_squirrel wrote:

That doesnt necessary follow - that just means that the Guarda thought he was doing something illegal and the guy didnt chose to challenge the fine in court. Had a quick search for the thread and couldnt find it so it would be speculation on both our sides to refer to it any further (waits for thread to be found in very next post )

Edit : just found this poll on the indo site which suggests if smacking is illegal then it must have been made pretty recently. Unfortunately doesnt seem as if there is any date on the poll itself to be sure....

In the case mentioned, it wasn't a slap, it was nothing short of common GBH, he thrased the boy, ie Child Abuse in my books.

Re: Slapping, it's illegal to physically harm a child, a simple slap shouldn't be of more than enough force to do anything other than sting and leave a no more than a redness, no bruising.

dahamsta

Blinda wrote:

Slapping children IS ILLEGAL in the UK.-FACT

I actually thought that was the case, but secret_squirrel has provided linkage, you haven't. Have you a source for this assertion?

adam

secret_squirrel

I contend that corporal punishment within the family is still allowed in the UK. See here Note the date on the page. It appears to refer to the article although I do conceed it could just refer to the header page.

From Link - under heading of Controversies wrote:

Corporal punishment remains legal when used by parents.[in uk]

As Adam said - prove me wrong -with links.

I get the impression some posters on this forum are posting what they want to be true rather than actual facts.

Here's another link with a wealth of supporting evidence. As you can see the 2004 Childrens Act makes allowances for 'mild smacking'.

secret_squirrel

Found this. link to an Irish times article 20 Months Old

Last Paragraph.

Mr Paul Gilligan, chief executive of the Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children called for a total ban on corporal punishment in the home, as well as school. Because "reasonable chastisement" was still allowed in the home by parents and childminders, there continued to be "ambivalence" concerning the physical punishment of children among adults, he said.

This suggests smacking is allowed in Ireland* too. Again feel free to prove me wrong - with links.

*at least it was a year and a half ago

Rev Hellfire

Cute...

Behave rev, or there'll be grownup slaps :eek:

dahamsta

My sister just puts her kids outside the door. It seems like an odd punishment - you'd think they'd just play where they are, or even piss off - but they actually used to get upset about it, and behaved when they came back in. Bizarre.

adam

Eoghan-psych

semisleeping wrote:

I was actually having a conversation about this with a friend at lunch today. I think slapping a child is a parents right and I do not think it should be illegal. However, I do realise that there is a fine line between a non-threatening slap for discipline reasons and abusive behaviour and for this reason bounderies have to be put in place....it's hard though. I know that as a child I was whalloped with a wooden spoon across the arm or bum if I was being bold. It has not affected me in any negative way and looking back I'm surprised I didn't get worse for some of the stuff I did!

If you slap me, it is assault.

If I slap you, it is assault.

If your kid slaps me, it is assault.

If my kid slaps you, it is assault.

If I slap your kid, it is assault.

If you slap my kid, it is assault.

If my kid slaps your kid, it is assault.

If your kid slaps my kid, it is assault.

See a pattern?


As for not affecting you - read your message. You are trying to justify the use of assault as a means of discipline. I'd say that shows that you were affected quite a lot.

RicardoSmith

Have to say I don't have a problem with a slap. Except that from experience we've found it not very effective. However we've found that emotional blackmail is, but then you have to wonder if its not more damaging? No pain no gain I suppose. Time out zones, the bold step, room etc. (cupboard under the stairs LOL) the kennel. All variations on the same technique. Every child is different not all respond to the same methods.

Legally I don't know the position.

dahamsta

Do you need a hand down off that horse Eoghan-psych?

adam

unkel

I've not used and don't plan to use physical force. I'll prolly never will. Can't see anything wrong with a slap on the bum though...

dahamsta wrote:

Do you need a hand down off that horse Eoghan-psych?

LOL, I'll provide some fists if required

luckat

From the BBC news website:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4429706.stm


Smacking's impact 'same globally'
Actors simulate a smacking
Researchers interviewed families in six countries

Children who are smacked are more likely than those who are not to become aggressive and anxious, no matter what the cultural norm, a study says.

A global research team studied 336 families across six countries - some of which accepted smacking as legitimate discipline and some which did not.

It found smacking resulted in more behavioural problems in all countries.

But in countries where smacking was the norm, the problems were less acute, the Child Development journal reported.

Researchers from universities in Europe, Asia and the US carried out the study.

There are mixed opinions over whether smacking leads to behavioural problems and whether the society the child is being brought up in has an impact.


A child's safety and respect for their human rights should be at the core of caring for children
Mary Marsh, of the NSPCC

Various countries across Europe have outlawed smacking, but most countries in the developing world do not have regulations.

In England and Wales, smacking which leaves a mark was banned earlier this year, although "reasonable chastisement" is allowed.

Mothers and children from China, India, Italy, Kenya, the Philippines and Thailand were all interviewed.

The mothers were asked how often they physically disciplined their children, and how often they thought parents in their country resorted to smacking.

Then they interviewed the mother and child about the child's emotional state and how often they got into fights.

Mothers in Thailand were least likely to physically discipline their children, while those in India and Kenya were the most likely.

Aggression

All the children who were disciplined showed higher levels of aggression, anxiety and other emotional problems than their contemporaries.

But researchers did find that in countries where physical discipline was more common and culturally accepted, the behavioural problems were not as bad as when it was carried out where it was more taboo.

Lead researcher Jennifer Lansford said the findings prompted the question of whether physical discipline was "acceptable, regardless of whether it occurs commonly within a cultural group".

But she added: "One implication of our findings is the need for caution in making recommendations about parenting practices across different cultural groups."

Paul Farmer, chairman of the Mental Health Alliance, which represents professionals and charities, said environmental factors such as physical discipline were likely to have an impact on behavioural problems no matter what the cultural norm.

But he added: "It is not just anxiety and aggression that can be caused by trauma. Other emotional problems, such as depression, can result."

Mary Marsh, director of child protection charity NSPCC, urged parents not to smack their children.

"A child's safety and respect for their human rights should be at the core of caring for children."

And she said parents needed support in finding out about positive parenting and alternatives to hitting.

Researchers from Duke University and the University of Oregon, both in the US, the Chinese University of Hong Kong, Goteborg University in Sweden, Naples University, the University of Rome, Chiang Mai University in Thailand, and Delhi University in India, took part in the study.

PJG

Yeah sounds about right. We had another thread here we others could not see that smacking lead to aggression and other problems.

Vangelis

Hmm..

If smacking has no effect then.. Can smacking be justified.. or even encouraged?

Who does really want to frighten and inflict pain on their children this way?

lisa.c

some times kids need a smack and i do smack my lad if all else fails but more often than not it dosent work and has no effect!!!

id always agree with the odd smack but the line of beating a child should never be crossed!

pchead

We have 2 kids, aged 2 and 4. The only thing keeping my wife and I from the mental asylum and preventing the house from ending up as a pile of bricks is the occassional smack on the bum or hand.

With my limited experience, I would say that those people who condemn smacking either do not have kids or else gave bith to little angels!!. Try reasoning with a two year old who has just emptied a drawer for the 10th time, despite being warned NOT to do it again.

I do draw the line between smacking and beating. Beating can never be condoned in any circumstance. I think a good slap on the arse is more than acceptable.

All children were smacked/slapped up to a number of years ago when all this malarkey about cruelty/human rights etc started up. Can we honestly say that kids who were never smacked are better behaved?