The Slapping Debate.

nesf

tallaght01 wrote: »

But a gene would likely affect 25-50% of kids. So, it shouldn't be reflected as a majority figure when looking at correlations. That would be my issue with a genetic predisposition.

I think at the individual level it's a decent hypothesis. But I don't think it bears out at a population level at all.

You're assuming it's a gene and that it's acting directly. If multiple genes or epigenetic factors were involved then the above wouldn't necessarily hold. I think it's a mistake to rule out genetic factors simply because there isn't obvious tell tale signs. If anything, genetic research from the past decade has shown that it's far murkier than that.

Edit: To be clear, I don't think that at a population level genetic effects would dominate, there's just too much "monkey see, monkey do" in the human learning process for that to be the case. I just intuitively object to slapping=violence hypotheses as blanket statements. Human behaviour is rarely so simple.

SerialComplaint

axel rose wrote: »

You would be welcome to give me a smack on the arm if I was about to walk out in front of a car!

Wouldn't it be quicker and more effective to grab and hold you, rather than hitting you?

axel rose

Yes it would but extreme fear sets off an anger type (stress on type) reaction. I would do anything and I mean anything to ensure that my son is safe. And yes this includes the obvious 'duh' things too, however if I saw him about to step out in front of a car or burn himself I honestly cant say that I wont react by first pulling him back and then giving him a smack on the bum!

I would love to say that I would calmly sit down and explain how important it is to use the green cross code and run through it before we attempt to cross the road again but I cant. A smack on the bum would probably stick in his mind better.

Anyway I have worked with abused children for over 10 years now and its ridiculous to even suggest that a loved and cared for child who may receive a smack on the bum if they are about to endanger themselves is abused. Believe me abuse is a lot more than that. Can any of ye even see that there is a difference between some scumbag taking out their anger and frustration on an innocent child and a scared parent keeping their child safe.

Zulu

Anna88 wrote: »

Every child is different, a good talking to might work for some but others need I beleive that little smack when they step over the line. To me it shows the child who is the parent and that they should be respected!!

Nothing like a good beating to teach someone respect. Beating, sorry, I ment slap. Eh, I mean tap.
Yes thats it, a "tap" on the back of the legs teaches respect. :rolleyes:

Zulu

Anna88 wrote: »

There is a difference between beating your child up and giving them a quick two second smack!!

And this is determind how anna?

For example, and quick half second smack, administered by me to your nose could easily break it.

kizzyr

Anna88 wrote: »

Well then a lecture is aswell....

People are parents....people have choices, if someone chooses to smack THEIR child its THEIR biz!! No one elses...

If the child feels abused, they have childline....

That statement is shockingly blase.

kizzyr

axel rose wrote: »

You would be welcome to give me a smack on the arm if I was about to walk out in front of a car!

Surely if your child was about to walk out in front of a car you'd grab them back to you and explain why they always always always must hold your hand when crossing the road, wait for the green light, look left and right etc etc not smack them

StormWarrior

Zulu wrote: »

And this is determind how anna?

For example, and quick half second smack, administered by me to your nose could easily break it.

Exactly. It's very hard to know your own strength, you may not realise how much you are hurting your child. And where is the line drawn? It starts with a smack, and in many cases who knows where it ends. I'm sure Michael Jackson's dad thought the physical punishments he doled out were acceptable and look how messed up Michael turned out. And as someone said earlier, to all of the parents who think smacking your kid is fine, I wonder how you'd react if a teacher, childminder or passerby smacked your child for percieved bad behaviour. All you are teaching them is that violence is acceptable, and that it's ok to lose your temper and lash out. There seems to be a correlation between the allowability of child-hitting and the amount of cruelty to prisoners and war-mongering in different nations. Eg - in Sweden hitiing kids is banned and Sweden never starts wars and treats prisoners with respect. Compare that with the USA, where teachers hit kids with paddles so hard they bruise.

SerialComplaint

axel rose wrote: »

Yes it would but extreme fear sets off an anger type (stress on type) reaction.

So grabbing him is out, because it might set off a stress reaction, but hitting him is OK???

axel rose

Did you get this part serial complaint?

Yes it would but extreme fear sets off an anger type (stress on type) reaction. I would do anything and I mean anything to ensure that my son is safe. And yes this includes the obvious 'duh' things too, however if I saw him about to step out in front of a car or burn himself I honestly cant say that I wont react by first pulling him back and then giving him a smack on the bum!

I take it you dont work with children who have been actually abused by their parents?

SerialComplaint

axel rose wrote: »

Did you get this part serial complaint?

I got it all, not just the bit you marked in red. I got the full comment "I honestly cant say that I wont react by first pulling him back and then giving him a smack on the bum".
This says to me that you are keeping smacking in there as an option for you in this circumstance, for reasons that you haven't yet explained.

axel rose wrote: »

I take it you dont work with children who have been actually abused by their parents?

What is this supposed to mean? Is there some minimum qualification for contributing on this thread? Are you suggesting that everyone who works with children who have been abused by their parents automatically shares your view?

Stop hiding behind your claimed professional experience, and focus on the issues to hand.

axel rose

Sigh......whatever........I could possibly physically abuse my child so......:rolleyes:

My second point is actually referring to what IS actual physical abuse. The kind of systematic planned ongoing physical and emotional abuse that you appear to confuse with my example. In fact I think you are purposely confusing two very different situations......It is disrespectful to even put the two in the same category.....

joes girls

ok so if i do something i shouldnt, then would it be ok for an adult to give me a slap???
I think its degrading for a child,hates it when you see a parent hit their child in public, it has to be embarrassing for the child!

The Big Red Button

kizzyr wrote: »

Surely if your child was about to walk out in front of a car you'd grab them back to you and explain why they always always always must hold your hand when crossing the road, wait for the green light, look left and right etc etc not smack them

Child tries to walk out in front of a car.

You pull them back and have a serious talk with them, there and then, of just how dangerous it is to be careless crossing the road, and what the consequences might be.
Result: They will remember that next time they are crossing the road.

You pull them back and smack them.
Result: They'll be too indignant and upset to listen to any lecture you might proceed to give them re. the danger they were in, and learn no lesson for next time round.

Besides which - I don't believe in smacking a child, at all, at any age - but, if a child is young enough to be considered "young enough" to smack by some of the people here, they sure as hell should not be out of your full control (holding hands or in a buggy) when crossing the road. That's your responsibility as a parent, not theirs.

SerialComplaint

axel rose wrote: »

Sigh......whatever........I could possibly physically abuse my child so......:rolleyes:

My second point is actually referring to what IS actual physical abuse. The kind of systematic planned ongoing physical and emotional abuse that you appear to confuse with my example. In fact I think you are purposely confusing two very different situations......It is disrespectful to even put the two in the same category.....

Getting caught up with whether slapping is abuse or not is a red herring. Forget labels. The question is 'Is it OK to slap a child'?

For anyone who answers yes, I'd also be interested in their answer to the follow-up question 'Why is it OK to slap a child, but not to slap an adult'?

Anna88

Yep I beleive children should be smacked....its the only way they learn!! Well Im speaking from personal experience here!

Embarressing for the child to be smacked? What about the embarresment for the parent when their child acts up in public?? If kids know their gonna get a smack when they mis behave...they wont be embarresed when their out, will they??

And adults know....well SHOULD know better then to act up like a child. Its called being grown up!!

~me~

Anna88 wrote: »

Yep I beleive children should be smacked....its the only way they learn!! Well Im speaking from personal experience here!

Embarressing for the child to be smacked? What about the embarresment for the parent when their child acts up in public?? If kids know their gonna get a smack when they mis behave...they wont be embarresed when their out, will they??

And adults know....well SHOULD know better then to act up like a child. Its called being grown up!!

its the parent that should feel embarased for hitting their child in public just for 'being an embarasment by acting up'! do you not see that thats just hurting a child to save face?

joes girls

so you think thats its ok to slap a child????
but if a man hits a woman he is called all sorts!!!

surely an adult hittin a child should be looked on in the same way......after all its an adult hittin a small child who is not able to defend themselfs!!!

Anna88

Yes I think its ok to slap a child on the back of the legs or the back of the hands.

A man hitting a woman...next Ill be asked do I think if its ok for man to hit a dog who bite him!!

Its an opinion thread...I gave my opinion, dont like it....TOUGH!!

joes girls

like i just gave you mine!!!

realmadrid

Im on the never no way ever side of the fence. Dont do it now or will ever start.

Nevyn

Please keeps posts civil, no flaming or personal abuse.

nesf

If you kids don't pipe down, I'll be taking off my belt...

Ludo

chatterpillar wrote: »

Child tries to walk out in front of a car.

You pull them back and have a serious talk with them, there and then, of just how dangerous it is to be careless crossing the road, and what the consequences might be.
Result: They will remember that next time they are crossing the road.

You pull them back and smack them.
Result: They'll be too indignant and upset to listen to any lecture you might proceed to give them re. the danger they were in, and learn no lesson for next time round.

When you say "result" there I am going to assume you mean "One Possible Result" as people react differently and you are actually just making that up and presenting it as fact. I could just as easily claim with as much authority as you that the opposite results would apply.

All I know with 100% certainty is based on my own experience and that of my very close friends who I grew up with. We are all very normal level-headed people in our mid-thirties who have never showed any kind of a violent streak whatsoever. And guess what...we all got the odd slap when we were kids when we stepped majorly out of line. Did it leave us as war-mongering violent blood-thirsty messed up individuals who beat our own children (as someone claimed in a silly post above)...no it most certainly did not.
As I said, I know this is FACT in my case but it may not apply to everyone. Then again some parents believe in what I would consider to be psychological "abuse" (seeing as we are throwing that word around). That can be just as damaging to a childs personality surely.

Will I slap my own children? I hope not, as everyone can agree that it is not ideal. Would I consider myself abusive if I did slap them on occasion...no...I would probably feel guilty and try to think of a better way to deal with it in future but if talking to the child failed repeatedly, then other measures may become necessary.

Ludo

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Getting caught up with whether slapping is abuse or not is a red herring. Forget labels. The question is 'Is it OK to slap a child'?

For anyone who answers yes, I'd also be interested in their answer to the follow-up question 'Why is it OK to slap a child, but not to slap an adult'?

Totally irrelevant to the discussion. Children ARE different to adults.
It is ok for me as a parent to force my children to go to their room and ground them. If I do this to an adult, it is considered kidnapping/illegal detention.

If my children start acting up when out, then I can pick them up and carry them off to calm them down. If I tried this with an adult I could be charged with assault...your comparison is fatally flawed.

luckat

Ludo wrote: »

Totally irrelevant to the discussion. Children ARE different to adults.

Not really, Ludo; humans can teach and learn without any violence, whether they are children or adults.

The Big Red Button

Anna88 wrote: »

Yes I think its ok to slap a child on the back of the legs or the back of the hands.

But as I asked you in a previous post - you think that it's an acceptable form of discipline, and in that case would you be happy for your babysitter/childminder to slap your child as punishment? Or how about their teacher, or anyone else responsible for them?

If your answer is yes, you would be happy to, then where do you draw the line?

If your answer is no, you wouldn't let anyone else slap your child, then how can you expect them to use other methods to control your child without slapping them, when you, as their mother, can't?

StormWarrior

joes girls wrote: »

so you think thats its ok to slap a child????
but if a man hits a woman he is called all sorts!!!

Let's not forget that in the not-too-distant past, it was perfectly legal and acceptable for a man to beat his wife with a stick, as long as the stick was no thicker than his thumb. I think the majority of people nowadays find that idea horrifying. So too I think one day people will look back on the time when hitting kids was acceptable, and be appalled. Thankfully human consciousness evolves.

joes girls

I think its so funny that if a child is actin up when out,which you find embarrassing, the answer is to give them a slap, which will make the child cry and bring even more attention to you and your child!

we'llallhavetea_old

joes girls wrote: »

I think its so funny that if a child is actin up when out,which you find embarrassing, the answer is to give them a slap, which will make the child cry and bring even more attention to you and your child!

totally agree! If i see a child acting up i dont think 'god, how mortifying' but if i seen a child being slapped, i think 'you ****ing idiot of a parent, if you cant deal with a child throwing a wobbler in any other way, shame on you' humph.